Equipment advice on loading for accuracy.

[boyzuker]

I've been reloading on my Dillion XL650 for nearly a decade cranking out .223 and pistol ammo but now I want to load for accuracy instead of bulk. I'm looking for some advice on equipment.

To start I'll only be loading .308 for both a bolt gun and a 308 AR. I'd prefer to go with RCBS as much as possible.

I have a lot of experience reloading but when it comes to hand loading I'm a total dullard.

[damndave]

Since you asked about equipment, this is what I suggest.

RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press
RCBS Universal hand priming tool
RCBS Precision mic
Redding Type-S FL Bushing die set
Redding Neck bushings (dependant on brass)
Hornady Comparator set

If you need a scale/dispenser I highly recommend the RCBS Chargemaster Combo

[the86d]

Originally Posted by AlliedArmory

Since you asked about equipment, this is what I suggest.

RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press
RCBS Universal hand priming tool
RCBS Precision mic
Redding Type-S FL Bushing die set
Redding Neck bushings (dependant on brass)
Hornady Comparator set

If you need a scale/dispenser I highly recommend the RCBS Chargemaster Combo

Can't you prime (for accuracy) on the RockChucker?

[BSlacker]

Look over on the RCBS website they have a new press that is more for your desires, low volume and accurate. I have a RCBS Supreme and a Forester. Get the Forester for low volume accurate ammo. Use RCBS dies if you want. Unless you like primers all over the floor. For your low volume needs prime off the press.

[gemoose23]

Keep using your dillon650xl, as a starting long range shooter, buying new presses isn't needed..

Do the following things:

• Pay more attention to die setup pertaining ammo fitment to your guns.
• Use good components, those bulk bullets won't get to where you want to go.
• Consider your powder choice to ensure it is very consistent with the Dillon Powder dropper or consider purchasing a uniflow and die adapter.
• Brass prep is king...

Some reading at the bottom of the article... http://www.jarheadtop.com/articles_ReloadQuant.htm

[krwada]

I would not worry about getting a new press. What gemoose23 said is pretty much what you need to pay attention to. The best tools you can get are the ones that measure:
1. Headspace
2. Concentricity
3. Neck wall thickness and uniformity

Make sure you get good components
Brass prep is very important ... other than component selection, this is one of the few places where you can make a difference

[damndave]

Originally Posted by the86d

Can't you prime (for accuracy) on the RockChucker?

Yes you can prime on a RC. Some people like to prime on the press, some don't. I honestly have not seen any difference.

[CK_32]

Originally Posted by AlliedArmory

Since you asked about equipment, this is what I suggest.

RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press
RCBS Universal hand priming tool
RCBS Precision mic
Redding Type-S FL Bushing die set
Redding Neck bushings (dependant on brass)
Hornady Comparator set

If you need a scale/dispenser I highly recommend the RCBS Chargemaster Combo

This is a pretty solid list right here. Only thing I could add is a ogive gauge.

[CK_32]

Originally Posted by the86d

Can't you prime (for accuracy) on the RockChucker?

You can but it's a pain in the a**. Ask me how I know


I also like the hand priming tool because you can feel the seating tension once seated. Not so much wih the press primer. The hand primer is better all around IMO.

[HighLander51]

You can load plenty accurate in .223Rem on a Dillon 650. Most 3 gun shooters run 650's. What distance are you going to shoot at?

[ExtremeX]

+1 on what Allied Armory said.

+1 on the hand priming tool...

For my rifle loads, I love my competition seating dies with a micrometer top and bullet guide.

[boyzuker]

Originally Posted by gemoose23

Keep using your dillon650xl, as a starting long range shooter, buying new presses isn't needed..

Do the following things:

• Pay more attention to die setup pertaining ammo fitment to your guns.
• Use good components, those bulk bullets won't get to where you want to go.
• Consider your powder choice to ensure it is very consistent with the Dillon Powder dropper or consider purchasing a uniflow and die adapter.
• Brass prep is king...

Some reading at the bottom of the article... http://www.jarheadtop.com/articles_ReloadQuant.htm

What king of consistency is the dillon powder measure capable of? That is the reason I was thinking an additional loading setup was going to be required.

Originally Posted by HighLander51

You can load plenty accurate in .223Rem on a Dillon 650. Most 3 gun shooters run 650's. What distance are you going to shoot at?

Starting at 300yds and moving out as my skills increase.

[damndave]

What type of powder are you planning on using? If it's something like Varget or R15 you will get charges ranging from 1gr apart. If you use something like 2000-MR you can get pretty consistent charges which would most likely spread a +/- .2gr range.

The key to accuracy is consistency. That's why precision shooters mainly load on single stage presses and weigh each charge.

More or less any decent 308 bolt gun with glass will be plenty accurate out to 6-900 yrds even with factory bulk ammo. But it comes down to if you want to hit the steel pig or hit the same steel pig's eye.

[rsrocket1]

Originally Posted by boyzuker

What king kind of consistency is the dillon powder measure capable of? That is the reason I was thinking an additional loading setup was going to be required.

Starting at 300yds and moving out as my skills increase.

That doesn't really matter. Start out by hand weighing loads. I hope you have a scale. Use the Dillon PM to throw a charge into the scale, trickle up and dump it into the case. As the others said, component selection and consistency is the key. Only if you start measuring inconsistencies in what the 650 delivers (if any), should you buy something else.

[xray30]

I pretty much agree with what most people are saying here. Consistency is key in precision. What kind of budget are you working with? What type of accuracy are you looking for?

[boyzuker]

I'd like to be shooting sub .5moa.

My budget isn't set in stone, I'd LIKE to spend as little as possible but you get what you pay for. If I were to set up the Dillon to load .308 it would be a few hundred bucks for everything. If later down the road I'm going single stage I'd rather put my money in that direction now.

[bigedp51]

More "inaccurate" ammunition is reloaded than any other cause because the decapping rod expander button is locked down off center "increasing" neck runout.

You will get more consistent accuracy when full length resizing and thus eliminating the body of the case contacting the chamber.

The late Jim Hull of Sierra Bullets said the following: (with humor)
"I get my best accuracy when the cartridge fits the chamber like a rat turd in a violin case".

The Rifleman's Journal
Reloading: Partial Neck Sizing
by Germán A. Salazar

"In conclusion, I believe that allowing the bullet to find a relatively stress-free alignment in the throat by full length sizing (including the neck) and turning necks to enhance concentricity gives the bullet the best probability of a well-aligned start into the rifling."



You can't make a silk purse from a sows ear, meaning you can't make bad brass shoot better if the case has unequal case wall thicknesses.



A simple runout gauge and neck thickness gauge will help sort out the bad brass.

SINCLAIR CONCENTRICITY GAUGE
http://http://www.sinclairintl.com/r...prod37479.aspx

Redding Case Neck Gage w/ Indicator
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadin...prod39927.aspx

Both these type gauges will help you sort through your brass and eliminate any bad brass, and check your resized cases for alignment errors.

So the first thing you need is good quality brass and gauges to check its accuracy and consistency and then your work.

[RandyD]

David Tubb who has held many national rifle shooting records and has won numerous rifle competitions (http://www.davidtubb.com/store/About-David-Tubb) uses a Dillon 550 and 650 to reload his match rounds. To verify just google his name. The US Palma team also uses a Dillon 650 to reload their match rounds.

[milotrain]

Originally Posted by boyzuker

I'd like to be shooting sub .5moa.

My budget isn't set in stone, I'd LIKE to spend as little as possible but you get what you pay for. If I were to set up the Dillon to load .308 it would be a few hundred bucks for everything. If later down the road I'm going single stage I'd rather put my money in that direction now.

I'm getting nearly .5moa (maybe more like .75) with military brass and thrown charges in a .223 case on a Dillon 550. If you weigh the charges accuracy should go up, if you neckturn or use lapua brass and a full length sizer with a neck bushing to set neck tension then that's the majority of the accuracy you will find.

Take the time (and spend the money) to either match the chambers of your AR and your bolt gun so your neck turned brass is ubiquitous and your full length sizer works for both chambers and you are golden.

[huckberry668]

Provided a known accurate load is developed. Progressive or single stage, the press matters in the ability to keep the loaded ammo's round to round variations low. Beside other obvious weighing, sizing, length, seating considerations, cartridge run-out should be attended to too.

My old Rock Chucker 2 press gave up to .008"s run-out. My 550B with floating die mod and Forster CoAx give less than .003" run-out. I now load my match loads that are .5MOA capable on progressive.

In order to load accurate ammo, loading equipment needs to:

1. size the sorted, prep'ed brass straight (low run-out),
2. size the brass to the same or close head-space tolerance,
3. seat primer firmly and consistently,
4. throw powder charge weight consistently and low/no variation,
5. seat bullets consistently to the same or very close ogive to head measurements.
6. seat bullets straight with low to no run-out.

1. and 6. are hard to accomplish with traditional lock-down press/die setup. 4. consistent powder charge can be done with ball powder or charging on a separate step.

I believe David Tubbs, John Whidden and the U.S. Palma team load their ammo on progressive presses with floating die setup to keep run-out low.

[gemoose23]

Originally Posted by boyzuker

What king of consistency is the dillon powder measure capable of? That is the reason I was thinking an additional loading setup was going to be required.

I haven't dropped rifle powders out of my Dillon measures yet. You'll have to test out the powder you are wanting to use and see if the Dillon measure will drop as consistent to your personal quality levels.

As an alternative to using an auto dropper is to trickle and scale your powder and drop it manually.

Dillon makes such an powder die to enable on press filling if you are measuring and tricking on your bench. http://www.dillonprecision.com/conte...500_Powder_Die

You could also go the low tech route and just place a funnel to drop your powder every time. (This is what I did last year on my Hornady)

[3RDGEARGRNDRR]

Very good info here.
To summarize depending on your wallet and how much OCD you have about minimizing all variables then changing one variable at a time you can have some very accurate ammo. Handloading for accuracy takes a lot of prep, research, and consistency throughout all the aspects of the loading practice.
If you arent willing to drop good coin for high end components, measure and remeasure, weigh and reweigh and suborganize your components, Then youre still leaving accuracy on the table. I didnt even get into presses and setup yet.

[milotrain]

All of which is academic if you can't hold sub MOA, which is the case for most people.

[3RDGEARGRNDRR]

Originally Posted by milotrain

All of which is academic if you can't hold sub MOA, which is the case for most people.

Damn wind ruined the day

[milotrain]

I was out with some old guys on the line. .223 and .22-250 Rem 700s with 24" barrels. Shooting at 100 yards. Kept complaining about the wind pushing their shots.

[LynnJr]

Originally Posted by boyzuker

I've been reloading on my Dillion XL650 for nearly a decade cranking out .223 and pistol ammo but now I want to load for accuracy instead of bulk. I'm looking for some advice on equipment.

To start I'll only be loading .308 for both a bolt gun and a 308 AR. I'd prefer to go with RCBS as much as possible.

I have a lot of experience reloading but when it comes to hand loading I'm a total dullard.

Use good quality brass(Lapua)
Weigh each charge with as little variation as you can.
Uniform primer pockets.
Seat bullets using a comparator or forget about accuracy.
Fire your brass one time size the brass then trim all of your cases to your shortest piece of brass and chamfer inside and outside of neck.
Bump your shoulder 0.001-0.002 on your bolt action but only after it has been fired once or twice.
Now you can work up a decent load.