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  #1  
Old 02-23-2014, 2:58 PM
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Default Wolf .223 primers, Sellor and Belliot Primers Anyone use them?

I use Tula mainly but when I end up buying primers I like to buy in LARGE amounts.

SO, anyways, Part of a purchase the other night was 22k WOLF primers, and I think about 20k of those were the .223 HOTTER primers (meant for .556, not just small rifle .223).

They came from Wideners. I am wondering if I should have bought them though because it is odd well. I dunno. I was told to get primers, it was the third time my friend asked for some so it was so late at night I just placed the order and hopefully they will all show up. My problem is, I know this sounds crazy, BUT Are wolf primers just as good or better than Tula primers? Because Tula primers are like the best ones EVER, but I know the first loads I did with my 9mm was using Wolf SRM primers cause I had no others to use at the time but anyways, I had not used wolf in about 3 years now... I just hope they are good.

Also, I THOUGHT I had heard something about the Sellor and Belliot primers, but maybe it was the brass. Does anyone have any experience with the SoB primers? I call that brand SoB cause after you fire their field loads for clays (blue or red box) you always say "SoB! That hurt!"

Anyways... :\

Also, since I am going to be priming some .223 with my hand primer, I saw that I had TWO types of SRP for Tula, I see SR and SR 223 or kvb223 or whatever, all of those are fine to use in the ARF correct?I remember hearing about slam firing and all but I do not think there should be any issues with that.
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Old 02-24-2014, 7:52 AM
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I ordered 20k in 2010 from Powder Valley just about finished firing off all of them. No problems whatsoever. They seemed to have a harder cup but my AR builds never had a problem. I purchased 5K of their SP primers which did give me at least a couple of duds every 100 but not so with their SR primers. If I couldn't get CCI or Winchester SR primers again I wouldn't hesitate to order Wolf.
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Old 02-24-2014, 8:39 AM
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Wolf and Tula are the same, in different packaging.

They come from the same factory.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:49 AM
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I used to use the Wolf 223 primers and they went bang just fine. Shot them in my AR.
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2014, 12:03 PM
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I use both wolf and tula in multiple flavors. I have had only a few duds out of many thousands. I did notice a difference between the wolf small rifle primer and the CCI 41's....................................I get almost twice as many wolf/tula primers for the same money as CCI. They are good enough for action pistol and 3 gun competitions (although I only shoot local matches and will not be winning the entire match any time soon).
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Old 02-24-2014, 2:39 PM
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Be careful with the copper colored primers They are soft, if you run a hot load like I dothey will burn through .
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Old 02-24-2014, 3:29 PM
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I bought a batch of Wolf primers a few years back and they have problems with H335 powder. I'll get a handful of FTFs every 100 rounds. (It's a known issue. You can do a search for it if you want.)

Other have had good success with Wolf, so I'm attributing my problems to the bad primer/powder combo.
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Old 02-24-2014, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender152 View Post
I bought a batch of Wolf primers a few years back and they have problems with H335 powder. I'll get a handful of FTFs every 100 rounds. (It's a known issue. You can do a search for it if you want.)

Other have had good success with Wolf, so I'm attributing my problems to the bad primer/powder combo.
I wonder if that is just with certain lot numbers of wolf primers. H335 is the main powder I use for 223 and I don't recall any not going off. Small pistol primers are the ones I have an issue with once in a while.
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Old 02-24-2014, 5:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGT80 View Post
I wonder if that is just with certain lot numbers of wolf primers. H335 is the main powder I use for 223 and I don't recall any not going off. Small pistol primers are the ones I have an issue with once in a while.
Same. I use H335 and TULA KVB223 all the time. No problems yet. Gene through almost 2k of the TULAs so far without a problem
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Old 02-24-2014, 5:47 PM
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I think the Russian primers are good,for what i want the cup is to thin.My load is 24.5 of Varget with a Rem 7 1/2 primer.with the russian primer ill get pierced primers and found that a reduced load to 23gr works good,and this i use for short range.
The Russian magnum is just as good in my opinion as the Rem 7 1/2,no issues there.
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Old 02-24-2014, 6:14 PM
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I've never had any issues with them in my pistols or rifle.
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  #12  
Old 02-24-2014, 6:42 PM
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Sweet...

Yeah, copper looked cool in the 9mm, but I will keep it out of my .556 loads...

So sweet. And according to Tula and to Wolf, they are NOT the same company and their primers are different with Wolf being maybe a hair better, but it never occured to ask before buying so damn many...

So nobody has used the S&B primers eh? Works for me...
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  #13  
Old 02-25-2014, 7:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGT80 View Post
I wonder if that is just with certain lot numbers of wolf primers. H335 is the main powder I use for 223 and I don't recall any not going off.
It's definitely possible. I didn't research the problem that thoroughly; I just did a quick search online and saw that many others had the same issue.

At the time, I had plenty of H335 and only about 1k of these primers. I didn't feel like buying new powder and working up a new load, so I just used them and dealt with the FTFs. It wasn't a huge deal, but it sucked waiting each time to make sure the duds weren't hang-fires.
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2014, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by stilly View Post
And according to Tula and to Wolf, they are NOT the same company and their primers are different with Wolf being maybe a hair better, but it never occured to ask before buying so damn many...
Where do you hear this? The reason I ask is that every reputable source (that I've heard) not trying to sell you something has stated that Tula is just a different branding of the same primer. They are both coming out of the same factory but they have different importing companies.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...s-wolf-clones/

http://www.mpzflame.ru/production/primers/

The factory doesn't make two brands.
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Old 02-25-2014, 3:48 PM
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David Tubb uses Russian primers. That itself is good enough for me.

Sellers primers are fine too. The only primers I've had issues with are Winchesters, at least 2 ftfs per hundred for pistol and rifle, large and small.
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  #16  
Old 02-25-2014, 4:33 PM
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So does Salazar.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milotrain View Post
Where do you hear this? The reason I ask is that every reputable source (that I've heard) not trying to sell you something has stated that Tula is just a different branding of the same primer. They are both coming out of the same factory but they have different importing companies.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...s-wolf-clones/

http://www.mpzflame.ru/production/primers/

The factory doesn't make two brands.
Uhhhhhhhh.

I read it on the interwebz?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=474449
http://www.reloadingforbeginners.com...o-primers.aspx
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  #18  
Old 02-27-2014, 7:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
First part of the first link talks about ammunition, I think that primer thing was thrown in there as a wank honestly (I've seen that email before and it didn't include the primer line) because neither the Tula or Ulyanovsk Cartridge Works make Tula primers, it says "Murom Apparatus Producing plant" on the box, just as it does on Wolf primers. Second part of the first link is CowboyT saying that they are the same primer.

Second link is outdated. Neither Tula nor Wolf look like either of the primers pictured anymore. Their priming material is green and both primers are brass cupped.
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Old 03-01-2014, 7:11 AM
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I have never had an experience with the Wolf small rifle primers. However, Wolf large rifle primers out performed all other primers including Federal match primers.

When I talked to one of the national long range shooting champions at a match, the shooter said she and her family use Wolf primers for their loads. I guess that speaks for itself...
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:02 PM
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I have never had an experience with the Wolf small rifle primers. However, Wolf large rifle primers out performed all other primers including Federal match primers.

When I talked to one of the national long range shooting champions at a match, the shooter said she and her family use Wolf primers for their loads. I guess that speaks for itself...
Nancy & Mid Tompkins?
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Old 03-01-2014, 12:24 PM
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Wolf SR Magnums work great in my AR. Always go bang. Winchesters would pierce occasionally which is why i stopped using them.
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Old 03-05-2014, 6:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milotrain View Post
First part of the first link talks about ammunition, I think that primer thing was thrown in there as a wank honestly (I've seen that email before and it didn't include the primer line) because neither the Tula or Ulyanovsk Cartridge Works make Tula primers, it says "Murom Apparatus Producing plant" on the box, just as it does on Wolf primers. Second part of the first link is CowboyT saying that they are the same primer.

Second link is outdated. Neither Tula nor Wolf look like either of the primers pictured anymore. Their priming material is green and both primers are brass cupped.
BUT, ammo or NOT, Wolf is thumbing their nose at Tula and Tula is thumbing their nose at wolf. So WHY would they have a closet relationship and make the same primers. Please do not make me scientifically analyze their primers and take super macro photos of them and then lose my reloading time to prove that they are not the same. BECAUSE I WILL!

Also, Because I jacked in and read it on the interwebz, so it HAS to be true...


Well thanks folks for all the info. I am feeling VERY good about my purchase...


***UPDATE***

Damn. Wideners sent me all Wolf Small Rifle .223 Primers instead of the Small Rifle Magnum Primers (for hotter 5.56 loads)

Should I be pissed or they should be fine as well? I sent them an e-mail and damn, I do not want to have to ship 15k primers back... Opinions? Thoughts?

I mean, for firing off W748/blc2/imr4320/8208 (or whatever imr it is) out of an ARF should I be worried or will it all be fine?
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Old 03-05-2014, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
BUT, ammo or NOT, Wolf is thumbing their nose at Tula and Tula is thumbing their nose at wolf. So WHY would they have a closet relationship and make the same primers. Please do not make me scientifically analyze their primers and take super macro photos of them and then lose my reloading time to prove that they are not the same. BECAUSE I WILL!

Also, Because I jacked in and read it on the interwebz, so it HAS to be true...


Well thanks folks for all the info. I am feeling VERY good about my purchase...


***UPDATE***

Damn. Wideners sent me all Wolf Small Rifle .223 Primers instead of the Small Rifle Magnum Primers (for hotter 5.56 loads)

Should I be pissed or they should be fine as well? I sent them an e-mail and damn, I do not want to have to ship 15k primers back... Opinions? Thoughts?

I mean, for firing off W748/blc2/imr4320/8208 (or whatever imr it is) out of an ARF should I be worried or will it all be fine?
Reduce your load by 2 gr or primer piercing may occur.
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Old 03-05-2014, 6:53 PM
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I am using the Wolf Small Rifle - 223 Rem. primers in my AR-15 with H-335 ball powder. I have had no problems and have put at least a few thousand rounds through it.

An internet search shows that the wolf small rifle magnum and wolf 223 small rifle are both good for semi auto rifles. It says that the 223 is the best.

The wolf small rifle standard primer doesn't have "magnum" or "223" on the box, based on this search and a photo from wideners web site.

It appears you have the best choice for the wolf brand.

I'm sure people here would take them off your hands if you wanted to get rid of them.
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Old 03-05-2014, 6:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
BUT, ammo or NOT, Wolf is thumbing their nose at Tula and Tula is thumbing their nose at wolf. So WHY would they have a closet relationship and make the same primers. Please do not make me scientifically analyze their primers and take super macro photos of them and then lose my reloading time to prove that they are not the same. BECAUSE I WILL!

Also, Because I jacked in and read it on the interwebz, so it HAS to be true...


Well thanks folks for all the info. I am feeling VERY good about my purchase...


***UPDATE***

Damn. Wideners sent me all Wolf Small Rifle .223 Primers instead of the Small Rifle Magnum Primers (for hotter 5.56 loads)

Should I be pissed or they should be fine as well? I sent them an e-mail and damn, I do not want to have to ship 15k primers back... Opinions? Thoughts?

I mean, for firing off W748/blc2/imr4320/8208 (or whatever imr it is) out of an ARF should I be worried or will it all be fine?

I have been using KVB556M because of the harder cup, and I haven't had any failure to ignite or issues after using 4k.

If it were me - I will ask them to send UPS or FedEx to pickup the wrong primers and send me the correct ones. Let them bear the cost.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:50 PM
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Okay folks, well, based on what yall are saying, then I will hold off and try out a pack and see how they work out with my ARF...

I already sent them a message, but I will load a 100 or so and see where they get me.

Thanks. And I will see if I can get my ARF to slamfire with them by driving out to Steeale Peaeek and throwing it down numerous times with one in the chamber...

My powders will be W748, BLC2, IMR4320, IMR8208, and who knows what else I got. Oh yeah, Bullseye, WST and WSF (9mm now...)
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Old 03-06-2014, 6:06 AM
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Yes I do 15k just showed up



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Old 03-06-2014, 10:04 PM
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Sweet. I had them shipped to the local gun store and they opened my box and almost put them on the shelves to sell! :O

hehe.
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Old 03-09-2014, 6:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CGT80 View Post
An internet search shows that the wolf small rifle magnum and wolf 223 small rifle are both good for semi auto rifles. It says that the 223 is the best.
Any reasons given why the regular Wolf SRs are better than their magnum SRs?

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Yes I do 15k just showed up
Very nice stash.
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Old 03-11-2014, 6:55 PM
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Any reasons given why the regular Wolf SRs are better than their magnum SRs?
Very nice stash.
Yeah now I am curious as to why...
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Old 03-11-2014, 7:23 PM
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I've bought wolf primers before. Work great. In fact my accuracy load for .223 uses a wolf primer. Can't remember if it is magnum or not. Anyhow I haven't had any dud primers. Winchester LRP on the other hand...
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Old 03-11-2014, 9:37 PM
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Wolf small rifle primers are now available in types.
SMALL RIFLE PRIMER (part # QQQSR) - Used as a standard small rifle primer. Perfect for the 30 carbine and 223 standard loads. Many people use this primer in bench and other loads for the 223. This primer is a copper colored primer.
SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM PRIMER (part# QQQSRM) - This is the primer we had before for use in the 5.56 loads and hot 223 loads. A thick cup for the higher pressure. We sold a lot of these primers earlier this year. The new lot is brass colored instead of nickel.
SMALL RIFLE 223 (part # QQQSR223) NEW NEW This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite.

This is from the Wideners web site: http://wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=7283

I am using the small rifle-223 primers and have had no problems with h-335 ball powder in 223 for my AR-15.

It seems that the 5.56 primer was the best, but now the 223 version is hotter than the 5.56..............Yeah, I know it is backwards.

I am not pushing max loads in my gun and I haven't compared the different types of wolf primers. I just know that wolf/tula is a good value for me, even if I have had a few that didn't ignite in my 9 and 40 pistol ammo. Rifle primers have all been good.
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  #33  
Old 03-12-2014, 8:10 AM
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SWEET! Thanks.
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Old 03-12-2014, 7:49 PM
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Few things.

1. Wolf and Tula are not in bed together, they just both buy primers from the same factory to sell to Americans. Tula USA is not Tula the factory.
2. If your Wolf 223 primers are brass colored then they should be fine, I have some of the Tula ones and the cup is plenty thick. The problems everyone had earlier were with the copper colored primers.
3. The confusion in naming convention is resolved thusly:
KVB556M "for hotter loads" notice it's FOR hotter loads, it does not MAKE hotter loads. Thick cup, same flash temperature as the SRP.
KVB223 (KVBSR) is the new name for the old SRP. Low flash temp, used to be a thin copper cup, now it's a brass cup, don't know how thin it is.
KVB223M This is actually a magnum primer, so it is hotter, it also has a thicker cup.
4. The Wideners data is sort of out of date relating to the Tula naming convention, but likely correct (perhaps misinterpreted "for" vs "makes") for wolf skus.

From the Murom Plant website
Small Rifle • KVB-223 KVB-223E 4,43 • For Standard Rifle loads
Small Rifle Magnum • KVВ-5,56M KVВ-5,56EM 4,43 • For 5,56 NATO cartridges
Small Rifle Magnum • KVB-223M KVB-223EM 4,43 • For Magnum Rifle loads

I'd disregard the "m" stamp on the sku and just read it as straight from the description. For Rifle, for NATO, for Magnum. Easy. I do speculate that it's become easier to simply make the NATO primer and box them as a "rifle" primer though, as the cup of the rifle primer changed from copper to brass (I'M WRONG). I guess I could pull apart a new Tula 223 primer and measure it's cup against a new Tula 556M.

New info. The below sheds a little light. I took a caliper to the cup wall next to the anvil. .018" on each and every cup.

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Last edited by milotrain; 03-12-2014 at 8:33 PM..
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Old 03-19-2014, 5:49 PM
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Nancy & Mid Tompkins?
I think it was their daughter who works at the Berger bullet company. Maybe
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Old 03-19-2014, 5:50 PM
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Nancy & Mid Tompkins?
I think it was their daughter who works at the Berger bullet company. Maybe it was Michelle?
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