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  #1  
Old 02-19-2014, 7:42 PM
Nick Adams Nick Adams is offline
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Default SSE, self defense and the DA

I have my eye on an off roster pistol. I could get it SSE'd. It occurred to me, what if, God forbid, I ever had to use it.
Does the risk of a California DA ginning up a 'deemed unsafe by California, but the defendant found a loophole...' possibility make it unwise to have a SSE'd pistol as a primary home defense gun?
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2014, 7:48 PM
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No. Roster doesn't apply to you, it applies to dealers. It simply controls what they can and cannot sell.

If you can lawfully defend yourself, you can lawfully defend yourself. It is that simple.
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2014, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Adams View Post
I have my eye on an off roster pistol. I could get it SSE'd. It occurred to me, what if, God forbid, I ever had to use it.
Does the risk of a California DA ginning up a 'deemed unsafe by California, but the defendant found a loophole...' possibility make it unwise to have a SSE'd pistol as a primary home defense gun?
In my opinion, you could not be sure. The DA could vilify you by stating how you knowingly bought a pistol thru SSE loophole (their words) then changed it back to the original (read roster illegal) configuration. Depends on the circumstance and DA. Most likely not......but, crazier things have happened.
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Old 02-19-2014, 8:28 PM
SoCalPI SoCalPI is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubb View Post
In my opinion, you could not be sure. The DA could vilify you by stating how you knowingly bought a pistol thru SSE loophole (their words) then changed it back to the original (read roster illegal) configuration. Depends on the circumstance and DA. Most likely not......but, crazier things have happened.
Yes, if you bought it in SSE configuration and then modified it to original state, they could certainly make an argument. Would it win? Who knows. I wouldn't want to be the test case.
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2014, 7:08 AM
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Renaissance Redneck Renaissance Redneck is offline
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All my concealed carry guns are off roster. If I have to shoot somebody, then I have to shoot somebody. Once I've shot them, it doesn't matter if the handgun was "not safe" by California's definition, or not. I WANTED IT TO BE UNSAFE AT THE MUZZLE END!!! I intended to shoot them, and the gun performed what I asked of it; the gun's roster status did not change the intended result one way or the other, for good or for bad.

Having said that, who knows what a DA or a jury will say. As for me, I'll take my chances.
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  #6  
Old 02-20-2014, 8:05 AM
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Merely paranoia.

There are guns out there no longer on the roster that once were. Are those OK?

What's wrong with having a gun in it's original manufactured configuration?

Also, I'd get an SSE gun because I thought it was cool and I specifically wanted it to play with. I wouldn't likely use it for "defense".

I'd likely choose some polymer model to keep locked and loaded for personal defense at all times.
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Old 02-20-2014, 8:07 AM
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For people who are worried about the DA claiming you used "Extra Ebil Deadly Force" in a situation where you could justifiably use deadly force please find a case that charge was made and what was the outcome? Did the DA's claim have a significant impact on the outcome on the case?

Once you are charged the DA may say a lot of things, including that you are ebil and guilty, that's why you have a lawyer.

If this is something to be worried about then it should be easy to find examples of DAs questioning why you chose a shotgun over a .22 or .357 over .38 as a defensive firearm. For that matter, a firearm at all, why didn't you use a baseball bat?
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Old 02-20-2014, 8:26 AM
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If this was an issue, them all the LEO that have off-roster handguns as issued duty weapons would be in the same boat.

I wouldn't worry about it.
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2014, 8:36 AM
ChuckDizzle ChuckDizzle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh3239 View Post
No. Roster doesn't apply to you, it applies to dealers. It simply controls what they can and cannot sell.

If you can lawfully defend yourself, you can lawfully defend yourself. It is that simple.
This, I'll add that the "unsafe" nature of a SSE conversion would not be at issue. It would only be an issue if you dropped it and it discharged, or some other negligence or products liability issue.
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  #10  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:14 PM
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This topic has really turned into a "Zombie Thread" that just will not die. We deal with this same question about once a month.

As far as the police, and prosecutors, are concerned, any self-defense shooting is going to be judged on the merits of the shooting. There is no issue with an SSE, or an off-roster, weapon that will cause a problem if the facts of the shooting are reasonable. At the same time, having a pristine, microstamping, seven round special, just added to the roster, firearm will not help in any way if the facts of the shooting are unreasonable.

Arrest and charging decisions require a showing that the elements of a statute have been violated, and that there is sufficient evidence to convince a jury to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard.

I'll challenge any member of this forum who believes that an SSE (or off-roster) weapon cannot be used for self defense to identify any statute that would be violated by the use of a legally configured SSE, or off-roster weapon, where the facts of the shooting are reasonable.

You can easily get into trouble where the facts of the shooting are unreasonable, and where you made alterations to a weapon that facilitated the shooting. A good example may be a 1911 that you set up with a two pound trigger and the hammer hooks shaved to minimal engagement. Now suppose that you have a ND while covering a compliant suspect. If a fatality results. you'd likely be looking at a manslaughter charge. But that would not be because of the weapon, it would be because of the circumstances. If you had fired the same weapon at an armed suspect who was shooting at you, there would be no issue.

All of the above pertains to the criminal court case. You're also quite likely to have a civil lawsuit result from a self-defense shooting. You should expect the plaintiff's counsel to raise any issue that would influence the jury that you acted wrongly. It's called "Trial Advocacy" and it's a required course in law schools. It's really hard to beat the "Trial Advocacy" thing in advance. A really good attorney can argue either side of the same issue against you (it's an art). For example, consider your choice of caliber. If you choose something big (like a 10mm or .500 S+W), then you're presented as a "Dirty Harry wannabe". If you choose a small caliber (like a .25), then you're presented as someone who knows little about firearms and therefore probably made a whole lot of other mistakes in your handling of the event.
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