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Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles.

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  #1  
Old 02-19-2014, 8:27 AM
n1k0n3 n1k0n3 is offline
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Question Anyone own a Witt Machine brake for their Mosin Nagant M44?

Does anyone here own a Witt Machine muzzle brake for their Mosin Nagant M44 rifle? I am having a problem getting it on.

The part of the brake that is supposed to slide over the bottom of the front sight post is much too narrow. It's a few millimeters shy of clearing it and much too thick to bend over it by hand.
After fiddling with it for over an hour last night trying to find a method for install; I realized it is impossible for me to do without hiring a machinist to bend out the clamping parts of the brake. Even then, I assume bending it will damage the cerakote coating, prevent the screw holes from matching up and likely void whatever warranty Witt provides. Is there some trick to getting it on? I could not find any install videos for the M44, and Witt's provided instructions are generic to all rifles.

I've tried contacting Witt about it but have not heard back regarding my issue. Right now I have a $100+ piece of metal that does not fit the rifle I bought it for.

Attached are 3 photos to give a better perspective of what I'm referring to.







Thanks guys/gals!
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Old 02-19-2014, 9:04 PM
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TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
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Your problem is obvious in the pics.
You're trying to install a 91/30, muzzle brake on a M-44. Mosins are not created equal, the M-44 sight base is wider. The gap on the brake probably measures about .400"?
You have Model MB-4, you need Model MB-6

Last edited by TRAP55; 02-19-2014 at 9:07 PM..
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Old 02-21-2014, 9:57 AM
n1k0n3 n1k0n3 is offline
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That's exactly what I thought. I tried it on another M44 and had the same issues. I thought all M44's have a wider front sight base to allow the flip-out bayonet to be properly secured once locked into place over the barrel.
I tried in on my M91/30 and it didn't fit either (barrel is too long for the brake), however I did notice the opening of the brake that slides over the front sight was sized for a M91/30 not a M44. Witt unfortunately ignored my message for days. They finally got back to me with a generic message telling me my M44 is out of spec and I should just return it for a refund. I felt this was a "blow off" message, as they did not address my photos, or the fact that it would not fit either of my M44's.
I am willing to bet that Witt made the brake out of spec; a hybrid of sorts. It's made to slide over the M44 barrel, but the part the should go over the thicker front sight post of an M44 was actually sized for a M91/30. They sold me a brake that may not fit any rifle known to man, yet they wont acknowledge that they may have done the machining wrong.
I am going to try to contact them again with this info. Hopefully they will actually read it and make me a proper replacement. Right now I'm getting a "You're wrong, we're right. Return it and go away" response. I expected alot more from them.

Last edited by n1k0n3; 02-21-2014 at 3:55 PM..
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Old 02-21-2014, 1:03 PM
n1k0n3 n1k0n3 is offline
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Default History lesson on the M44

UPDATE: I spoke with Ken over at Witt Machine via phone and email. This has turned into a history lesson for us both.

My M44 was Russian made at the Izhevsk factory in 1948. I bought it because it was unissued/unfired, all numbers matching, with a perfect bore that had strong rifling (and smothered in cosmoline of course). No re-arsenaled crap here.

Ken said he believed I actually have a Chinese Type 53 "copy" as these are the only models he knows of that have the extra wide (0.7+") front sight base. He showed me pictures of his Russian M44 that he tests the brakes on, and a Chinese Type 53 (He will begin making brakes for these within a month). His M44 has pretty much the same size front sight base as the M91/30, his Type 53 is much larger (like mine). Also note the locking lugs on the side on the bayonet holder on the Type 53 (also present on my 1948 M44), they are not on the early M44s apparently. See image below:



He thought I had a different rifle, I thought they machined the brake wrong. Turns out we were both wrong.

It's very likely that the Russians switched to a wider/thicker front sight base at the end of WWII (or post WWII) after using the M44 in the field. It makes perfect sense that the wider/thicker base and locking lugs would provide much more stability and strength for the bayonet once it is flipped-out. All of the Izhevsk M44s I tested it on had the wide front sight base (I didn't write down the year, but I'm guessing these were late production models as well?).

Just a warning for you folks thinking about getting a brake for your M44: Measure the front sight block!!

The Witt Machine M44 brakes are designed for the thinner 0.4+" front sight bases. The Type 53 brakes (they will start producing very soon) are sized for larger 0.78" front sight bases.

Thought you folks would like to know this before ordering. I think Witt is going to change some text on their website to clarify this information now that we've both been better educated on the variations throughout the years of Mosin Nagant production.

Last edited by n1k0n3; 02-21-2014 at 6:26 PM..
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Old 02-22-2014, 9:47 AM
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Out of a half dozen, the only M-44 I don't have here to check, is the one Russian, my kid claimed it.
The Pole and Hun have the wide base, and the Czech 91/38 has an even wider base than those two.
Quote:
I tried in on my M91/30 and it didn't fit either (barrel is too long for the brake)
I'd bet it fits a 91/59 then.
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