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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #481  
Old 02-17-2014, 8:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackrat View Post
I donate heavily to calguns, not interested in the nra. I'd love to be but the scapegoating they did after Sandy by pinning the blame on video games and movies was cowardly. They're doing the same stuff the anti 2a groups were doing: pointing fingers at showing they don't understand, or else do and don't care as long a it makes their lives easier.

Get that attitude in check and I would love to join, no doubt they have done done good things for our cause.

Do you have links of the NRA showing or otherwise scapegoating video games and movies your post refers too ?

I'm a proud NRA GOA member and have not seen what your post refers too .
Do you also have a problem with GOA ? Or are you a member of that group ?

Rather interesting that a heavy Calgunns contributor such as yourself has not yet chosen to be a Calgunns contributor . What gives ?
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  #482  
Old 02-17-2014, 9:04 AM
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Here's a link to what he's talking about: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...games_for.html
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  #483  
Old 02-17-2014, 9:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Rumline View Post
Here's a link to what he's talking about: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...games_for.html
I agree that those video games are a significant issue that has yet to be explored and may have a very detrimental inpact on children. The movie and gaming industries ahve been very successful at quashing any govenmental studies on violence that gun ownership is subjected to...
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  #484  
Old 02-17-2014, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackrat View Post
I donate heavily to calguns, not interested in the nra. I'd love to be but the scapegoating they did after Sandy by pinning the blame on video games and movies was cowardly. They're doing the same stuff the anti 2a groups were doing: pointing fingers at showing they don't understand, or else do and don't care as long a it makes their lives easier.

Get that attitude in check and I would love to join, no doubt they have done done good things for our cause.
What was being done was pointing out the hypocrisy of supporting Hollywood and video games, both of which used firearms and random violence as entertainment, while simultaneously vilifying the actual firearms and the law abiding citizens owners who never committed a crime.

When did reading comprehension become dead?
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  #485  
Old 02-17-2014, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
What was being done was pointing out the hypocrisy of supporting Hollywood and video games, both of which used firearms and random violence as entertainment, while simultaneously vilifying the actual firearms and the law abiding citizens owners who never committed a crime.

When did reading comprehension become dead?


Gee Mike would you actually think those who elevate anti gun, anti rights, anti freedom entities such as " Slate" to comprehend such concepts as hypocrisy ?

Why any supposed gun owner would listen to or read what an avowed anti gunner would say, write, televise or broadcast is a complete mystery to me .

Quoting and elevating anti gunners appears to be a contradiction ! which we all know cannot exist .

“Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.”


― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Which premise did I get wrong ?
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  #486  
Old 02-17-2014, 11:14 AM
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  #487  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Gee Mike would you actually think those who elevate anti gun, anti rights, anti freedom entities such as " Slate" to comprehend such concepts as hypocrisy ?

Why any supposed gun owner would listen to or read what an avowed anti gunner would say, write, televise or broadcast is a complete mystery to me .

Quoting and elevating anti gunners appears to be a contradiction ! which we all know cannot exist .

“Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think that you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.”


― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Which premise did I get wrong ?
They only understand hypocrisy when they get to point it out in others. When they do it, it's called "being progressive".
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  #488  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
Do you have links of the NRA showing or otherwise scapegoating video games and movies your post refers too ?

I'm a proud NRA GOA member and have not seen what your post refers too .
Do you also have a problem with GOA ? Or are you a member of that group ?

Rather interesting that a heavy Calgunns contributor such as yourself has not yet chosen to be a Calgunns contributor . What gives ?
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/12/...arten-killers/

What's odd about the nras response was they used a game that I can guarantee 99% of gamers had never heard of it, let alone played it prior to the press release. It was made by one person that had it hosted on a site that would have been buried under the hundreds of other flash style games that get played on it. It's a non factor, but was trumpeted front and center as a prime example of how all the kids are cycling the drain morally.

Just like guns there have been numerous studies over the decades showing little to no link between violent games and violent behavior. That's not enough for politicians, including everyone's favorite SF blowhard Leland Yee who tries to push bans on violent video games almost every other year ("for the children" of course). Typical of Yee his response to people who disagreed with him was that "(they) didn't have any credibility in this argument" and they "need to quiet down"

http://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Vid...te-4219013.php


It's already against the law to sell minors M rated video games or let them into R rated movies. Kids do find a way though, like they have for years either through parents that don't know or don't mind or through their own devices. Of course the only solution at this point to politicians was to try ban it of course, we all must sacrifice for the faults of the few right? This despite the numbers showing youth violence at an all time low from the past 25+ years and still dropping even though more kids then ever are consuming violent media.

http://www.cdc.gov/VIOLENCEPREVENTIO...s_at-a_glance/

What bothers me is that the nra did exactly what the antis did in pointing their fingers at the video game industry. They used sensationalism, exaggeration, and they totally ignored statistics that went against their agenda of a subject matter they are completely ignorant about.

Doesn't that sound familiar?


With regards to being a calguns contributor, up until recently I haunted the quiet c&r section exclusively. 2012 and especially 2013 I donated several times via the emails we get sent from calguns. I've seen the contributor tag on people's cards but never really looked into what it's about. I don't have a problem with the GoA but I also don't know anything about them truthfully.

Last edited by blackrat; 02-17-2014 at 12:58 PM..
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  #489  
Old 02-17-2014, 1:41 PM
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Thank you for your documented response. I interpreted the Fox link with WLP differently than you did, possibly because I have no knowledge of games or their influence . Although I see where a person who enjoys these games could take offense .

As an NRA member your views would be considered seriously and I would not be surprised to see NRA offer an apology or better explanation .

The cdc is a wasted entity that plays politics at every opportunity. Although I do believe the graph showing rates decreasing is accurate the very imprecise word " homocide" is extremely misleading .

As we know homicide includes such incidents as thugs being justifiably killed for a variety of reasons by police,security guards, and citizens . If cdc were truly interested in facts they would use the word murder, which every person finds abhorrent and disturbing .

Thank you for your Calgunns contributions and I join you in our fight to preserve and secure RKBA .
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  #490  
Old 02-17-2014, 2:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja308 View Post
*snip*.
Unfortunately the gaming community as a whole had a backlash against the nra for those comments, dividing what you would think would be two groups that have mutual stake in each other given the popularity of military games and the hassles and misunderstandings they both deal with. Going through gaming websites and reading their comments was disappointing. The gawker run site kotaku was especially galling during the following months with flat out ignorant comments and calling for gun control and bans to the point where I've stopped checking their site out ever since.

There was one, just one, counter viewpoint article they put up and that became mired down in comments from the peanut gallery that would make sfgate commenters proud which was sad since the author really did try to bridge the gap.

http://kotaku.com/im-a-game-designer...-end-470868225
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  #491  
Old 02-17-2014, 2:40 PM
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Blackrat, I see what you are saying and I agree with the sentiment. I cringed when I heard LaPierre throw video games under the bus, but I still went ahead and moved up my annual NRA membership to Life. My thinking was that if the anti gunners hate them so much, they have earned my support.

There's already been a recommendation for the GOA but you should also consider supporting the 2nd Amendment Foundation www.saf.org
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  #492  
Old 02-17-2014, 7:14 PM
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80% of the population in california could be members of the NRA and the dems in office would still pass anti laws. I'm not a member but I do donate to them at friends of the NRA dinners. I often spend over 200.00 at these events. If the NRA had chapters for each state then I might join them. It seems to me that they fight cases on the east coast more than the west.
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  #493  
Old 02-17-2014, 7:27 PM
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I did not agree when the NRA attempted linkage to violent videogames
and these horrific massacres occurring in official Zero-Defense zones.

The Democrats and the left-leaning biased media, never miss an opportunity
to demonize the NRA, and it's 5 million members... It's been a rather effective
propaganda strategy, at least in states like California, where the average person
never sees any positive articles about the NRA and its various works.

By comparison, the Brady campaign can only muster about 28,000 members,
and yet the media acts like they have the nations popular support.

Joining NRA, despite it's perceived flaws, is still an effective way to preserve
our Second Amendment rights.

As a member, I can voice my concerns and vote to bring change from within.
One of the recent changes I applauded, was bringing in Mr. Colion Noir,
and his popular Pro Second Amendment videos.

At the very least, join any of the other fine organizations fighting to preserve
our rights.


Noble.
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  #494  
Old 02-17-2014, 7:37 PM
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but if it can prevent just one bad law, isn't it worth it to join?
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  #495  
Old 02-17-2014, 8:01 PM
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This is where the NRA lost me....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...tler-cancelled
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  #496  
Old 02-17-2014, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesob View Post
80% of the population in california could be members of the NRA and the dems in office would still pass anti laws. I'm not a member but I do donate to them at friends of the NRA dinners. I often spend over 200.00 at these events. If the NRA had chapters for each state then I might join them. It seems to me that they fight cases on the east coast more than the west.
This simply isn't true. See here for a partial list of what the NRA is doing in California. The NRA spends far more in CA than it takes in from CA.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=832289

Click here to learn how to stay informed of the NRA's CA efforts and how to donate to support the fight here in CA:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=845492
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  #497  
Old 02-17-2014, 9:49 PM
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While I believe all gun owners should be NRA members, I would be happy if the majority would contribute, volunteer, or join a pro-2A organization of their choice. I know way too many that have no problem dropping $100 on Ammo for a weekend, but won't pony up $35 a year to help a good cause, that ultimately benefits them in the long run. I intend to add to my NRA life membership this year and to use the NRA round up program when I make purchases with retailers.

I don't always agree with the NRA on every issue...but who will?
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  #498  
Old 02-18-2014, 8:42 AM
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There is power in numbers.

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  #499  
Old 02-18-2014, 9:32 AM
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I'm a life member of NRA (Benefactor), CRPA, GOA and SAF. While each organization can be a real pain in the *** regarding their constant telemarketing, mail and e-mail spam, They are all engaged in supporting/defending the Second Amendment. I may not agree with every position of these organizations, but they do more good than harm.
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  #500  
Old 02-18-2014, 9:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
I agree that those video games are a significant issue that has yet to be explored and may have a very detrimental inpact on children. The movie and gaming industries ahve been very successful at quashing any govenmental studies on violence that gun ownership is subjected to...
Such charges have been leveled at various forms of media since time immemorial, be it Socrates discussions, Black Sabbath's music, or the videogame Doom.

I doubt they have any major impact, if anything they're a safe outlet for aggression, at least in my personal experience. At any rate, they all have content ratings on the cover that responsible parents should consult to determine if the game is appropriate for their child (for instance, while Grand Theft Auto may have lots of content people don't want their kids to see, it does state clearly that it contains Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Mature Humor, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs and Alcohol all right on the box). If there is an issue, it's a parenting issue. Don't let little timmy engage in things he's not ready for, read the box. Alternatively, for online flash games hosted on sites known for shock material (like the Kindergarten Killers game mentioned), well, the Internet is the Internet, and again, parenting is key.

They're just another scapegoat, like guns all too often are, for socio-economic issues nobody wants or knows how to address. Having LaPierre go off on them was painfully hypocritical and looked like the same blame shifting that many anti-2A groups often engage in. Like it or not, when the head of an organization makes such statements, it does turn off those that otherwise should want to be part of said organization. Beyond whatever media bias one may want to attribute it to, the NRA does have a real image problem with the Millenial crowd, and it will need to work on that (and likely need to dump some of its current darlings with often strong attachments to other political issues) to address that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njineermike View Post
What was being done was pointing out the hypocrisy of supporting Hollywood and video games, both of which used firearms and random violence as entertainment, while simultaneously vilifying the actual firearms and the law abiding citizens owners who never committed a crime.

When did reading comprehension become dead?
Hrm, no, there is no reading comprehension issue. When you're point blank calling an industry "corrupting", that's accusing it of being the root of a problem, not merely accusing it of a double-standard. Saying such an industry is "sowing violence amongst its own people", is playing the blame game, not pointing out hypocrisy. That's the exact language LaPierre used.
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  #501  
Old 02-18-2014, 9:41 AM
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If you're waiting for the perfect organization to come along, it never will. The NRA, GOA, SAF and other worthy organizations get results. Join one or more of them. We speak louder with one voice or a small chorus than we ever will by ourselves.
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  #502  
Old 02-18-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teg33 View Post
I am a gun owner and believe 2nd amendment but I won't join NRA. I disagree with some of their policy
I used to be a member but they used to align themselves with those too far to the right.

I joined and I started to get all manner of conservative crap phone calls and mail.

They need to stick to 2A policy and stay away from those that have another agenda to push. If that happened, I'd join.
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  #503  
Old 02-18-2014, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by e90bmw View Post
I used to be a member but they used to align themselves with those too far to the right.

I joined and I started to get all manner of conservative crap phone calls and mail.

They need to stick to 2A policy and stay away from those that have another agenda to push. If that happened, I'd join.

Feel free to join the NRA guards its membership very carefully . See link
http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/02/27/...s-member-list/
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  #504  
Old 02-18-2014, 1:37 PM
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Feel free to join the NRA guards its membership very carefully . See link
http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/02/27/...s-member-list/
That may be the case now, but being a member for a number of years got me all kind of crap I didn't want related to wedge issues that the NRA has no business involved in. Mind you this was more than ten years ago. I'll revisit, but if I start getting crap again, I'm done for good.
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  #505  
Old 02-18-2014, 1:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90bmw View Post
I'll revisit, but if I start getting crap again, I'm done for good.
Fair enough. Thank you....
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  #506  
Old 02-18-2014, 4:53 PM
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This could be a source of political profiling

You don’t need NRA’s list. SAF rents theirs. So do gun magazines and business like Sportsmen’s Guide. Compiling a list of gun owners anywhere in the country takes no more than a phone call. Those lists can then easily be run against the list of registered Republicans in the state for targeted robocalls.

Seems likely anyway .
Thank you for re joining the NRA .
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  #507  
Old 02-19-2014, 1:51 PM
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The 2nd amendment lives for one reason and one reason only. The NRA. They are IMO the only organization in the country large enough to make a difference and not allow the politicians to do away with our gun rights. But they still are chipping away at it aren't they. I don't agree with everything they do either. But lets get real. Who will take their place. Most of the other pro 2nd amendment organizations are just not big enough. So you people who continue to split hairs on joining the NRA have no REAL reason for not joining. You just don't want to. But if you are true to your rights as an American Citizen and do not believe in subjugation in the future for Americans then you know one of the best ways to to support the Bill Of Rights is to support organizations that have the clout to make your sport a reality for you and yours and for the future of this country. Please consider what is going on in the Executive branch right now. That is all.

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  #508  
Old 02-19-2014, 10:42 PM
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To OP: Yes, if all gun owners joined the NRA, we would not have issues with Government infringement at any level. Voice is everything.

All gun owners should join the NRA. Bottom line, they are your 'best' voice against those that have vowed to deny your Second Amendment rights. They aren't your only option; I advocate an 'all of the above' approach to defending our gun rights. I don't agree with 100% of ANY group, spokesman, pundit, commentator. It turns out that nobody else is ME! Nonetheless, these groups, in particular the NRA, has our best interest in mind when it comes to fighting anti-gun legislation. Like I said above, they are our voice. The antis have lots of voices -- Hollywood, news organizations, pop stars, politicians -- none of which are particularly well reasoned or cohesive. Yet people DO pay attention to these folks. Most uninvolved folks are not that thoughtful -- "Rosie doesn't like guns, Mike doesn't like guns, Sen Chuck doesn't like guns, the Times doesn't like guns... I guess I shouldn't like guns! What's for lunch?" That is the thought process from my unscientific observations of co-workers and others.

Stop over-thinking. Pony up or shut up. Oh, and quite frankly, American Rifleman is pretty much worth the cost of membership, if you take the time to read it. My opinion.
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  #509  
Old 02-20-2014, 12:31 AM
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Join, or die.
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  #510  
Old 02-20-2014, 1:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin2 View Post
" If we do not hang together, we shall surely hang separately."
------ Benjamin Franklin
Maybe it was Franklin that said that, maybe not. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
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  #511  
Old 02-20-2014, 2:20 PM
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As someone that is a hardcore gamer and even works in the video game industry, yes I disagreed with LaPierre's correlation on games and mass violence.
Especially when we're talking about games that are not for kids (ESRB ratings and parental responsibility anyone?).

However, I don't really care what LaPierre says in a press release. I care about results, our rights and infringements of our rights.

If anyone uses the reason of 'they scapegoat to video games or movies' as a reason to NOT support the largest political organization for 2A rights both federally and state, then they are either not paying attention or not fully informed.
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