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  #1  
Old 02-17-2014, 8:27 PM
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Unhappy Smith and Wesson Revolver Owners, please help!

I recently picked up a S&W 500 and I'm having a lot of issues with it.

I ordered it online from a reputable source that will remain unnamed until I call them tomorrow and see how it goes.

Here are my concerns -- mainly that this gun MAY be used, or it looks like it. I cannot imagine a store would sell me a used gun as new but hey, who knows nowadays.

I do know that S&W test fires their guns. Does anyone know how many times they do it? I got one spent casing and the gun has definitely been fired more than once.

Here's what is wrong with it:

-The storage/carrying case is cracked -- this may have been shipping damage but probably not given the following
-The foam in the case is ripped in a few places
-The grease paper that comes with S&W revolvers is usually one large piece around the gun, mine was torn to shreds and had a few medium sized pieces.
-The gun comes with two interchangeable compensators. The one on the gun is correct for jacketed bullets. The one that I tried to put on for lead bullets does not fit. It looks like the compensator for a S&W 460.
-There's an extra sight with a gold dot in addition to the hi-viz sight installed on the gun (are these things supposed to come with it? I get the feeling someone used this and returned it or the store people used it)
-Three of the cylinders have very distinct carbon/firing buildup, looks a lot more than just one round.
-The finish is has minute scratches. I realize it's not supposed to be polished but it looks like the small hairline scratches and swirls you get from using a dirty towel on a polished / painted surface
-The barrel and compensator themselves look very clean.
-Cylinder marks and other marks look a bit deep for a test fire, but I don't know if this is normal.
-The inside of the frame where the cylinder and rod get housed looks horribly machined and even stained.

I've attached pictures below, if anyone knows these guns well and thinks more pictures would help you help me, then please post up. If there's anything else I should check, please let me know as well.

The spent casing that it came with is in an envelope dated November 2013--the date it was fired at the S&W factory, so this gun isn't even that old as far as when it came off the production line.

Thanks everyone for all your help!








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Last edited by whatwhy; 02-17-2014 at 8:44 PM..
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2014, 8:36 PM
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Looks like a new gun to me.
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Old 02-17-2014, 8:39 PM
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It looks used to me; good luck.
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Old 02-17-2014, 8:43 PM
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The swirls in the finish look normal to me but it looks to be fired more than once. The turn mark looks real bad to me. It was probably a display gun. Have you already dros'd it?
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Old 02-17-2014, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Your ad here View Post
The swirls in the finish look normal to me but it looks to be fired more than once. The turn mark looks real bad to me. It was probably a display gun. Have you already dros'd it?
Yeap, already DROS'd it...
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Old 02-17-2014, 8:47 PM
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Looks used.
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Old 02-17-2014, 8:49 PM
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That's used. Good condition, but used.
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Old 02-17-2014, 8:56 PM
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Sounds used to me also.
Torn wrapping paper?
Weird extra sight parts? No, mine did not come with that at all.
The front of the cylinder looks too dirty for a few test shots and the witness marks on the cylinder from the cylinder stop too.
Now the forcing cone area gets really damn *** dirty and is hard to keep clean looking, that doesn't look too bad.
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Old 02-17-2014, 9:03 PM
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Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
Sounds used to me also.
Torn wrapping paper?
Weird extra sight parts? No, mine did not come with that at all.
The front of the cylinder looks too dirty for a few test shots and the witness marks on the cylinder from the cylinder stop too.
Now the forcing cone area gets really damn *** dirty and is hard to keep clean looking, that doesn't look too bad.
Thanks, the extra parts are what threw me off. Let's hope they make this right...
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:59 PM
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Woah. You should have checked before you started DROS man...
I wish I couldve gone with you to check
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:00 PM
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Woah. You should have checked before you started DROS man...
I wish I couldve gone with you to check
I checked it real quick, I didn't think that such a reputable seller would do such a thing.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:03 PM
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Looks used.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
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It looks used to me; good luck.
It looks like a used gun to me too.

I wish the OP good luck.

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Old 02-17-2014, 11:18 PM
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Good condition but used
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:59 AM
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Blah...we'll see what they say tomorrow when I call...thanks guys, this sucks.
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Old 02-18-2014, 2:27 AM
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Your other option is to contact Smith & Wesson, since it is supposedly new and your the original owner (if that's truly the case.)
Tell them it looks like crapola, has the wrong accessories, and exhibits other cosmetic damage. Doesn't hurt to lay it on thick, you're the customer. The very least they will usually take it in and look it over. I've never used S&W CS for my revolvers and I've heard mixed things about them as well.
They may also have a record of a previous owner having registered it which would allow you to prevail against whoever sold you the gun as a "new" gun. Unless they said it was like "new."
Good luck and enjoy shooting that beast.
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Old 02-18-2014, 5:02 AM
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I have been told,Smith fires 3 test rounds in each gun..your shows carbon stains in 3 cylinders...makes sense, but the cosmetic parts wear makes it look like a well handled floor model. I'd be pissed too.
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Old 02-18-2014, 6:21 AM
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My guess is that it sat in a store display case and was handled by customers. You know a 500 is attracting a lot of curious people who want to play with it.

A lot of guns we buy at the store are like this. I personally would not make a big issue since you are going to get it dirty when you shoot it, but it is your money and you as the customer need to feel comfortable about it.
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Old 02-18-2014, 6:27 AM
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Mine has the same brushed satin finish but the extra scratches on yours and the packing paper shredded makes me think it was a floor model. Does the gun store have a firing range? Wonder if they let people who were interested in buying one test fire the one you bought.

I would contact the place you bought it from and ask the store owner/manager about the life of the pistol before you got it. It's up to you but I would ask for some type of compensation, either cash, ammo or reloading supplies. If you take it back you could be looking at a wait to get another one.
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Old 02-18-2014, 6:53 AM
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+1 on it being a display model. The 3 burn marks on the cylinder is consistant with the way S&W test fires their revolver before shipping them. The finish looks normal for what you see them shipping today but the turn line is kind of heavy which leads me to believe it was played with a lot. The recoil shield looks clean so I am thinking it was only test fired by the factory 3 times. You will have to ask the retailer about the condition and contents of what it came with.
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Old 02-18-2014, 7:51 AM
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it's the compensator that's a dead giveaway... its for a S&W 460 (you said it looks like) and it doesn't fit on the barrel tells me that it was either a mistake at the factory and you need to let them know to get the right one or someone at the gun store is playing "switchy da parts"

either way that could be extremely dangerous.
I think you've got to let someone at the store try to make it right and then go to Smith and Wesson after that, if you still haven't gotten satisfaction.
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Old 02-18-2014, 7:58 AM
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I agree with chayden. Give S&W a call.
I had a problem with a used 460V that was showing very high pressure issues. I thought it was the Hornady factory ammo problem. The gun was well used with custom loads and I knew it. I got a great deal that included dies, brass and some factory loaded ammo.
I gave S&W a call and they sent a label to send it back. About 10 days later I got it back. A hand written note explaining the work they had done and the parts replaced. No more problems.
Keep in mind Smiths lifetime warranty only covers the original owner and certinally doesn't cover reload issues. This didn't matter to them at all, they just got busy and fixed the problem and got it back to me. I'm sold on Smiths CS.
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Old 02-18-2014, 8:01 AM
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I recently bought a 4" S&W 500 and wasn't very pleased with the fit and finish. I almost didn't buy it, but ended up talking my LGS down almost $200 on it so I went with it. I was surprised on how dirty the gun was from S&W, but my 625JM was filthy as well. The gun has a few tiny scratches on the cylinder and one on the frame. I figure it will be a 5min buffing job to get them out. It also had a turn-line(not as bad as yours) but I imagine thats just from people playing with it at the shop. Like you guys said the S&W 500 draws attention.

I hope everything else turns out okay. I know S&W has great CS so if there is any problems I'm sure they will take care of it!
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Old 02-18-2014, 8:59 AM
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I'm guessing a demo model that sat in the case a while and got fingered quite a bit.

Like others have said, the forcing cone and chambers appear as if a new gun, but that turn-ring on the cylinder and that line on the inside of the frame at the rear lock-up indicate a lot of handling, flipping and closing of the crane/cylinder and possibly dry firing. Many of those general overall marks you mentioned would indicate the same, and I can only suspect that a demo model having its box and the box's innards getting tossed around a good deal while the gun sat in the case, or stored, and then re-stored when put away at night, would get mutilated.
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Old 02-18-2014, 9:44 AM
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Thanks guys, the ONLINE retailer I purchased from does not seem to have a store front, just a big warehouse...but maybe the employees are messing with them?

Currently on hold with S&W. I'm going to ask them a bunch of stuff to see if this is consistent with a revolver being new, used, or new and mildly molested.

Thanks everyone, I'll keep you all posted.

Is there anything else I should check in the mean time to make sure it hasn't been dropped or completely messed up?
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Old 02-18-2014, 9:59 AM
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wasn't it marked as the last one in stock before you bought it?
that could play a role to support it being a demo.
plus they shipped yours using USPS not Fedex like mine. I always have dented boxes from em...

... as long as you got it cheaper right?
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:07 AM
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If this is Bud's they will offer you a $20 gift code as compensation. They also delete or not include any negative feedbacks on their "customer reviews".
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:20 AM
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If this is Bud's they will offer you a $20 gift code as compensation. They also delete or not include any negative feedbacks on their "customer reviews".
Glad I didn't order from Bud's then...

So I got off the phone with both the retailer and S&W.

S&W says there's basically no way they put the wrong compensator in and the guy was being kind of a ***** about it -- like I owed him something. Just something about the way he was speaking, it felt like I had to pry information.

Test firing: they fire the entire cylinder at least once, but "it depends" -- so who knows. At this point, I'm guessing the revolver looks "new" as it should be from smith and wesson. A quick search over other forums shows that some S&W revolvers come in REAL filthy. The first thing the rep said was "we don't clean them".

The retailer is going to look into it and feels that this is really strange but the rep was really nice and sounded very genuine. I've sent pictures in to both S&W and the retailer to see what they say.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:27 AM
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Good luck. I've purchased 3 of my 4 handguns online and was lucky to not have any issues. I hope you get this squared away.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:57 AM
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Strange, got mine from Buds and had zero issues. When I spoke to them they were totally professional and answered all questions.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:15 PM
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Looks like a new gun to me.
Same here. I've seen a lot of brand new stainless SW that look exactly the same in every way.

Since you already DROS'd it, why not wait to see if it shoots fine at the range? If it works, then it works.
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:52 PM
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For some reason i cant view all of your photos but id say used from what ive read
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Old 02-18-2014, 2:16 PM
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Here are some pics of a 686+ I picked up today - and have not fired or cleaned yet.

There is a light turn ring on the cylinder, but it is light enough that I had a hard time getting it to show up well in pictures. The front of the cylinder doesn't show as much fouling though.

It's possible that this was test fired with .38 SPL rounds instead of .357 or maybe yours was fired with rounds with much pressure causing more fouling.

Your cylinder looks like it has been cocked quite a few times - hopefully not dry-fired too.



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Old 02-18-2014, 2:39 PM
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Originally Posted by hbogart View Post
Here are some pics of a 686+ I picked up today - and have not fired or cleaned yet.

There is a light turn ring on the cylinder, but it is light enough that I had a hard time getting it to show up well in pictures. The front of the cylinder doesn't show as much fouling though.

It's possible that this was test fired with .38 SPL rounds instead of .357 or maybe yours was fired with rounds with much pressure causing more fouling.

Your cylinder looks like it has been cocked quite a few times - hopefully not dry-fired too.
Thanks for the pictures, that's very helpful to compare. I was told by the S&W rep that they test fire the entire cylinder once, and then some...depending on the gun etc... I've also read (not officially) that they fire them with proof loads (something like 50% overpressure)--but that may just be forum rumor.

How can you tell the cylinder has been cocked, just out of curiosity? Also, I was told by S&W that dryfiring is fine, so I guess I'm not too worried.
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Old 02-18-2014, 2:42 PM
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Always thoroughly check out your new guns before you dros.

I used to just glance over new guns thinking, "It's brand new. I'm sure it's pristine." Learned my lesson long ago with a couple guns that turned out to have bad scratches, dings, or defects. I even almost bought a brand new gun that wouldn't have even fired.
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Old 02-18-2014, 2:52 PM
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Always thoroughly check out your new guns before you dros.

I used to just glance over new guns thinking, "It's brand new. I'm sure it's pristine." Learned my lesson long ago with a couple guns that turned out to have bad scratches, dings, or defects. I even almost bought a brand new gun that wouldn't have even fired.
Yeap, that's my lesson here. Even then, I wouldn't have thought of changing the compensator but hey, after this, I'll make sure to swap/change all the accessories to make sure they are correct.
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Old 02-18-2014, 3:51 PM
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How can you tell the cylinder has been cocked, just out of curiosity? Also, I was told by S&W that dryfiring is fine, so I guess I'm not too worried.
If someone was cocking the hammer and releasing it, you would get the lines on the cylinder between the grooves for the pawl (or whatever it is called). The more it is done, the more pronounced it would get - probably up to a point. The lines should be pretty faint on a new gun. I would be more upset if it was blued and the line really stood out.

Birchwood Casey 'Lead Remover & Polishing Cloth' will remove a lot of the fouling.
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Old 02-18-2014, 4:04 PM
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WhatWhy:

I know your pain. I just purchased a 629-6 (NIB) on gunbroker. When it arrived, the finished looked just like yours (crap). The barrel was also canted and appeared that someone dropped it on the muzzle, then made a terrible attempt to repair the dent in the crown.


As soon as I picked up the revolver from the 10 Day DROS, I contacted Smith & Wesson. I stated the issues above and demanded that they fix and/or replace the revolver for a new one.


Smith & Wesson sent me a prepaid shipping label and stated, "they will repair the firearm and if not repairable will refund me my entire purchase price."


Best of Luck!
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Old 02-18-2014, 4:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbogart View Post
If someone was cocking the hammer and releasing it, you would get the lines on the cylinder between the grooves for the pawl (or whatever it is called). The more it is done, the more pronounced it would get - probably up to a point. The lines should be pretty faint on a new gun. I would be more upset if it was blued and the line really stood out.

Birchwood Casey 'Lead Remover & Polishing Cloth' will remove a lot of the fouling.
Gotcha, will look into it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by C&Rcollector View Post
WhatWhy:

I know your pain. I just purchased a 629-6 (NIB) on gunbroker. When it arrived, the finished looked just like yours (crap). The barrel was also canted and appeared that someone dropped it on the muzzle, then made a terrible attempt to repair the dent in the crown.


As soon as I picked up the revolver from the 10 Day DROS, I contacted Smith & Wesson. I stated the issues above and demanded that they fix and/or replace the revolver for a new one.


Smith & Wesson sent me a prepaid shipping label and stated, "they will repair the firearm and if not repairable will refund me my entire purchase price."


Best of Luck!
Thanks for your input, that sucks on the canted barrel! I am thinking I may call S&W again because the guy I got was pretty useless, maybe it's a luck of the draw thing with their customer service.
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  #40  
Old 02-18-2014, 8:39 PM
Bull Elk Bull Elk is offline
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I've purchased a number of new and used S&W's. Most of my used S&W's were in better "used" condition than your new revolver. Something is wrong--something smells fishy.
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