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Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums.

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  #1  
Old 01-26-2014, 11:54 PM
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Default Calguns Reloading clinic invitation for those that want to learn.

Just curious.

When we are in the reloading forum we talk about outreach to different groups of people.

One thing that I have noticed is that when I have seen people show up to the Calgun reloading clinics, it is usually a bunch of guys like single guys or a pair of friends or maybe a son and dad that show up.

I had asked about inviting other folks, maybe throw an invite out in the LEO forum and in the Ladies forum just to be friendly and see who shows up.

Anyways, we are gearing up for another one in about a month or so and I was wondering if anyone here reloads or wants to learn if they are on the fence. If it is a positive response then I will post a new thread when we get a date.

I was wondering too though, is reloading a guy only thing or are there a lot of women that reload or maybe afraid of whatever for whatever reasons?
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Old 01-27-2014, 1:34 PM
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ive pondered it, but atm i can buy ammo almost as cheaply as what it would cost me to reload without having to chase components. factor in the equipment investment and the pricing smooths out even more. i also do not have a viable location for a reloading area, nor do my shooting interests require "specialized" ammo.

is this a skill i would not mind possessing - certainly. is it high on my list of priorities because i would utilize it - not so much.
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Old 01-27-2014, 1:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickshooter View Post
ive pondered it, but atm i can buy ammo almost as cheaply as what it would cost me to reload without having to chase components. factor in the equipment investment and the pricing smooths out even more. i also do not have a viable location for a reloading area, nor do my shooting interests require "specialized" ammo.

is this a skill i would not mind possessing - certainly. is it high on my list of priorities because i would utilize it - not so much.
Same here, I have no place to re-load, nor do I want to invest in all the components right now.
If I shot enough, for example, once or twice a week to make it cost effective, then yes I would.

Would I like to know how to re-load? Yes, it is a great skill to know, maybe someday when and if I have the extra money.
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Old 01-27-2014, 7:02 PM
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Unless you are going to shoot over a 1,000 rounds a month, on a regular basis, then continue to buy new ammo, if, and when it is available. There are up front costs for reloading, the press, the dies, scale, calipers, case gage, tumbler, media, and the re-occuring cost of primers, powder, bullets, cases(unless you have saved thousands up). However, once you buy the equipment, which pretty much lasts forever, you will reload for about 1/3 the cost of new ammo, depending on the type of bullets you want to shoot, full jacketed being about 2-3 times the price of moly lead. But here is the secret of reloading, you won't save any money at all! You will just spend the same amount of $$$ to shoot a whole bunch more rounds... Of course the time spent reloading is the same as watching TV. If you make $300 per hour, buy ammo, if you make $30 per hour, then reload.
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Old 01-27-2014, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
Unless you are going to shoot over a 1,000 rounds a month, on a regular basis, then continue to buy new ammo, if, and when it is available. There are up front costs for reloading, the press, the dies, scale, calipers, case gage, tumbler, media, and the re-occuring cost of primers, powder, bullets, cases(unless you have saved thousands up). However, once you buy the equipment, which pretty much lasts forever, you will reload for about 1/3 the cost of new ammo, depending on the type of bullets you want to shoot, full jacketed being about 2-3 times the price of moly lead. But here is the secret of reloading, you won't save any money at all! You will just spend the same amount of $$$ to shoot a whole bunch more rounds... Of course the time spent reloading is the same as watching TV. If you make $300 per hour, buy ammo, if you make $30 per hour, then reload.
QFT.

But when times like this show no ammo for some guns, then it is a good time to learn to reload. I paid $42.xx from wallyworld for a box of 44 magnum. 50 rounds.

I make more powerful shells then what they sold me AND they are quite safe (pressure sign speaking of course) and when I shoot them at the indoor range with my deagle it makes folks jump 4 lanes on each side. Even outside they have tremendous power and noise. I just like to see how much farther I can push them. I will never be able to buy them in the stores, and they cost me $9.70 to make a box of 50... When that 40k PSI releases it literally brings tears to my eyes... Like eating jalapenos... Oh yes, and a smile to my face...

And yes, I have put 2000 rounds of 44 mag through this gun now but there is no way that I would have done that by buying all my ammo in the stores.

.45 is even cheaper and 9mm is almost the cost of .22lr pre panic...

My setup cost me less than $600 after I was done buying everything I needed/wanted. I always buy stuff though when it is on sale too... The size of my setup is not very big, all you really need is a 1'x1' portion of a bench or table for the press and the rest is really more for storage and stuff.

Well, it still does not hurt to come to a clinic and watch, and learn and then when you get to make 50 pistol rounds yourself (with guidance and watching eyes) that is when the bug bites ya...
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Old 01-28-2014, 9:12 AM
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You don't need a lot of room. When everybody panicked & I couldn't find .22's I switched back to reloading . I had some components stuck away & went shooting. Still shooting still haven't found any .22's.
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Old 01-28-2014, 12:18 PM
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QFT.



Well, it still does not hurt to come to a clinic and watch, and learn and then when you get to make 50 pistol rounds yourself (with guidance and watching eyes) that is when the bug bites ya...
I had to look up the meaning of QFT, thought it was like Tru Dat! Anyway, yes it can only help to learn reloading, it's just I dislike reloading as much as I dislike cleaning guns. All that is just to get to the shooting part... "Are you ready?" "Stand by" beep!
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Old 01-28-2014, 2:58 PM
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I taught my wife. She reloads for her 9mm.
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Old 01-30-2014, 5:23 PM
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Hmm...I would be interested if I had extra time and extra space. The start up costs do not bother me. Eventually, I would like to know more about the process.
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Old 02-05-2014, 2:03 AM
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Well folks, if ANYONE wants to get on the list, here is the ACTUAL SIGNUP thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=889027

I think we are shooting for the 16th which is in about 2 weeks and it will be in Riverside.
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Old 02-05-2014, 2:12 PM
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If I may, I'd like to offer a couple of minor but important details.......

One of the expensive 'first cost' tooling investments for any reloading is a reliable dial caliper with which to accurately measure case length. There are several 'brand X' versions cheaply available, which are simply no good, that is, they may work for a while, but then the mechanism perishes, or becomes inaccurate.

The only good ones are the Swiss 'Tesa' make, also sold/marked as Brown&Sharpe, the Swiss 'Etalon' make, and the American made 'Starrett' make (and read the fine print, Doug Starrett, whom we once saw as a hero, has been having 'knock-offs' of his tools made in China.....so a person has a choice of cheap Chinese-made Starrett-marked 'tools', or the 'made in USA' real article, which isn't so cheap......but is reliable.

(in all fairness to Mr. Starrett, its been said that he had no choice but to have some items made in China, this having to do with some form of political pressure......I don't know the truth of that, but it could be 'plausible'.)

The Japanese 'Mitutoyo' make is a 'gambling device'......some are good quality, some are not.....one may 'get lucky'....or maybe not.

(Yes, I know, one can get a best quality vernier caliper these days, in the Starrett, Brown&Sharpe, or Tumico makes, and very cheaply.......a good one is actually more reliable than any dial caliper, but.....I can tell you from long experience.....even in good light, doing inspection of a large quantity of units with a vernier leads to eye-strain, which leads to the 'headache from hell'. You can find best quality vernier calipers, of the later style fifty thou 'long vernier', surprisingly cheaply on ebay, which will do the work well, but beware of the old style 25 thou 'short vernier'.....guaranteed bad eye-strain after the first couple dozen parts.)

The reason you need reliable dial calipers with which to accurately check case length, for pistol calibers, is that most have a 'crimp' needed to force the case, ever so slightly, into a crimping groove in the bullet.

This is most commonly done in a 'seat and crimp' die, but some die sets will have a seperate 'crimp' die.

If the cases are not of a uniform length, the crimp die will either not crimp some cartridges, or will over-crimp some, slightly expanding them so that they will not fit in the chamber.

The simplest way to deal with this is to note the published 'minimum case length' in the reloading manuals, and use a case trimmer to trim all your cases to that length. Check one of every few cases to be certain that the stop on the case trimmer hasn't 'crept', and the length is uniform.

Deburring the sharp edges of freshly trimmed cases is obvious, the suitable deburring tools are inexpensive. Likewise the little tool for cleaning the primer ash from the primer pockets, altho many omit this step for 'plinking rounds'. A simple visual inspection of the flash hole in the primer pocket to verify that its not blocked by a bit of tumbler grit takes but a second.

Checking case length, and trimming as needed is important with rifle cases, too. The cases will stretch when fired, some more than others.

A too-long rifle case may be 'compressed' against the bullet by the chamber, leading to an 'over-pressure' situation, which isn't good, to 'put it mildly'.....play safe by knowing the case is within spec. For some cases, such as the ones used in Winchester and Marlin lever rifles (25-35, 30-30, 32Spl, 38-55, and some others), a crimp into the bullet cannelure is necessary, so those must be trimmed to uniform length for a uniform crimp.

Sounds complicated?.....well, yes, in a way, but not nearly so much so as learning to drive a car......and driving a car is easy, right? You take care to drive your car or truck safely, so take care to reload safely......its really not at all difficult, after a little bit of 'learning-curve'.

Enough for today?

cheers

Carla

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Old 02-05-2014, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asphodel View Post
If I may, I'd like to offer a couple of minor but important details.......

One of the expensive 'first cost' tooling investments for any reloading is a reliable dial caliper with which to accurately measure case length. There are several 'brand X' versions cheaply available, which are simply no good, that is, they may work for a while, but then the mechanism perishes, or becomes inaccurate.

The only good ones are the Swiss 'Tesa' make, also sold/marked as Brown&Sharpe, the Swiss 'Etalon' make, and the American made 'Starrett' make (and read the fine print, Doug Starrett, whom we once saw as a hero, has been having 'knock-offs' of his tools made in China.....so a person has a choice of cheap Chinese-made Starrett-marked 'tools', or the 'made in USA' real article, which isn't so cheap......but is reliable.

(in all fairness to Mr. Starrett, its been said that he had no choice but to have some items made in China, this having to do with some form of political pressure......I don't know the truth of that, but it could be 'plausible'.)

The Japanese 'Mitutoyo' make is a 'gambling device'......some are good quality, some are not.....one may 'get lucky'....or maybe not.

(Yes, I know, one can get a best quality vernier caliper these days, in the Starrett, Brown&Sharpe, or Tumico makes, and very cheaply.......a good one is actually more reliable than any dial caliper, but.....I can tell you from long experience.....even in good light, doing inspection of a large quantity of units with a vernier leads to eye-strain, which leads to the 'headache from hell'. You can find best quality vernier calipers, of the later style fifty thou 'long vernier', surprisingly cheaply on ebay, which will do the work well, but beware of the old style 25 thou 'short vernier'.....guaranteed bad eye-strain after the first couple dozen parts.)

The reason you need reliable dial calipers with which to accurately check case length, for pistol calibers, is that most have a 'crimp' needed to force the case, ever so slightly, into a crimping groove in the bullet.

This is most commonly done in a 'seat and crimp' die, but some die sets will have a seperate 'crimp' die.

If the cases are not of a uniform length, the crimp die will either not crimp some cartridges, or will over-crimp some, slightly expanding them so that they will not fit in the chamber.

The simplest way to deal with this is to note the published 'minimum case length' in the reloading manuals, and use a case trimmer to trim all your cases to that length. Check one of every few cases to be certain that the stop on the case trimmer hasn't 'crept', and the length is uniform.

Deburring the sharp edges of freshly trimmed cases is obvious, the suitable deburring tools are inexpensive. Likewise the little tool for cleaning the primer ash from the primer pockets, altho many omit this step for 'plinking rounds'. A simple visual inspection of the flash hole in the primer pocket to verify that its not blocked by a bit of tumbler grit takes but a second.

Checking case length, and trimming as needed is important with rifle cases, too. The cases will stretch when fired, some more than others.

A too-long rifle case may be 'compressed' against the bullet by the chamber, leading to an 'over-pressure' situation, which isn't good, to 'put it mildly'.....play safe by knowing the case is within spec. For some cases, such as the ones used in Winchester and Marlin lever rifles (25-35, 30-30, 32Spl, 38-55, and some others), a crimp into the bullet cannelure is necessary, so those must be trimmed to uniform length for a uniform crimp.

Sounds complicated?.....well, yes, in a way, but not nearly so much so as learning to drive a car......and driving a car is easy, right? You take care to drive your car or truck safely, so take care to reload safely......its really not at all difficult, after a little bit of 'learning-curve'.

Enough for today?

cheers

Carla


I got this...

Now, I am absolutely perplexed as to where you got your info and WHY you posted it like you did. Some of it could not be further from the truth. BAHAH! I get it now. You cut and pasted it out of order from some online website. ROTFLMAO!

Please allow me to clear up a few items here.

The most expensive part is the press. The press can cost anywhere from $50 -$2500+ depending on what you want to invest in it. The presses used at the reloading clinics tend to run around the price of $50-$200 but they are all similar in nature (mostly) and not many folks have the expensive ones. I am sure Highlander has a couple, but I would expect him to. He is a high volume shooter who competes IIRC. The more expensive presses are more costly because they are geared for maximum output in the smallest amount of time. meaning they can make 1000+ rounds an hour. I paid $107 for my press and it allows me to make a round every 15 seconds if I keep a rhythm and steady pace with all 4 holes. Else if I only use two I can make twice as much.

I am surprised you did not mention a scale. Some scales for reloading cost as much as $400+ but most folks do not need them. MOST folks seem to enjoy their smaller beam scales that run about $100 or less. I tell EVERYONE to get the Gemini 20 from Amazon.com (made by American Weigh) because it measures 20 grams and it is a milligram scale which means that it will convert to grains and display grains by .02 units. That is good because 99.9% of the time reloaders ONLY need to know .1 grains. This scale is a great scale that carries a backlit lcd panel, tare ability, a 10 year warranty, and runs on a pair of AAA batteries and the total is about $20. Yes, I said $20. I use it and have used it for the past 2.5 years and I trust it very much.

NOW, a word or two about calipers. Sorry, but Starret and the Japanese Mitus are nice, but not needed or used. In reloading, you only REALLY need to measure to .001 and not usually beyond. For this reason, the Harbor Freight $15.00 calipers work FINE as MOST reloaders will tell you. I did not want HF quality so I ordered some digital calipers from Ebay for around $25 and they have been fine, but the HF look kinda similar, but different colors and buttons. Even Dillon, sells Digital Calipers that cost around $80 but look IDENTICAL to the HF ones. Which we all do wonder about by the way... So anyways, calipers only need to cost you $15, $9 on sale at HF.

As for Pistol caliber crimp. Wow... There are TWO types of crimps for pistol ammo, Roll crimp and Taper crimp. Taper crimp is applied to the shell at the end of the down stroke of the press. The same with Roll crimp. The difference between the two is that the Taper Crimp is there to close up the end of the cartridge and hold on to that bullet. (Before you can seat a bullet, you must FLARE or open up the mouth of the case so that it will seat a bullet nicely without shaving off the sides.) Then the die applies the crimp to close it back and make it tight.

Roll crimps apply to revolver or straight walled cartridges. Roll crimps do the same thing, except they tend to dig in a bit more and instead of ending straight they are slightly curved inwards. But the die DOES THAT AUTOMATICALLY. Every die set that has a bullet seater also has a crimper built in (mostly). There is also a thing called a FCD or Factory Crimp Die that Lee puts out that supports and resizes the shell as you crimp. This is for those folks that do not know how to crimp properly and end up messing up their crimps or crimping too hard and buckling their shells. If they took the time to learn reloading, they would know better. We get those folks all the time in the reloading forum and we educate them on how to set their equipment properly.

MOST cases (pistol) are the same or similar length. Obviously .38 and .357, although shot from the same gun are at different lengths. And yes, sometimes if you set up your equipment on a shell that is too short and you get a longer one, you WILL overcrimp but once you see what happened, you just reset your die or back it off a partial turn. Nothing big there. This mostly happens in 44 mag or ANYTHING like that where the brass might have been modified to use a different projectile. Albeit, while being rare, it DOES happen. I have a lot of 44 mag brass that is short due to it being fired from Hornady Leverlution or FTX rounds. It was about 1-2mm shorter from the factory. Most reloaders would simply put those aside or toss them for other shells.

Trimming cases is ONLY done when you full-length resize bottle necked cartridges like the .357 sig, 7.62x25 Tokarev, 7.62x39, or .223. And just about EVERY rifle case that has a shoulder. But for 9mm, .45, .40, .380, .44, .357, .38 ETC, 98.9% of reloaders will tell you they have NEVER trimmed those cases and plan to NEVER trim them. BUT, every now and then a bad case gets in somewhere and you might need to trim it or just toss it. I am up to about 4000 + reloaded .44 mag, 9mm, and .45 ACP and I have not trimmed once yet. But I bought a trimmer for 9mm when I got into reloading because SOMEWHERE I read that you needed to trim your brass... Boy what a waste of money that was. Oh well, better to not need it and have it then to not have it and need it right?

All of this stuff is addressed in the reloading clinic. When people show up we aim to entertain and educate them and then allow them to build ammo on the presses so that by the end of the day, they know a LOT more about it and they can make the decision to get into reloading or not. It is up to them. We put no pressure on them or force them to buy anything. But they do get to build their own ammo and we guide them through each step and when they go out to the range with THEIR ammo that THEY made and shoot it, that is when the real magic starts.

As for money on getting into reloading? Well, yeah, you can CERTAINLY spend a LOT. But you can also spend very little and still make excellent ammunition.

I hope I have cleared up a few things. Ask any reloader where they got their calipers and many will say their HF ones have provided years of quality reloads for them. Starretts would be really neat to have, but at the end of the day, my $25 dollar set performs the same. And I have only been doing this now for over 2.5 years...

If you had posted this in the reloading forum the few that did not laugh would have turned on the flames. BTW, the calipers breakdown did make me laugh. I do not think that anyone that I know of has ever done THAT much research on their calipers. This is my research, does it feel good. Yes. Does it zero out when I press the button? Yes. Is the accuracy repeatable and truthful? Yes. DONE, in the cart and moving on. I also have an analog/dial caliper set that I paid $35 for and they were supposed to be decent quality but I have never used them. I have them in case I need them and my battery is dead in the other one. They are not Starretts or Mitus but I really do not care as long as they stay together and work for me. BTW, I have yet to blow myself up or even get a squib.


Rather then comparing reloading to learning to drive, I think it is better suited towards learning to SCUBA dive. Yeah, you can be a dummy and screw around and get yourself BENT or you can learn the right way from certified professionals and enjoy the surroundings and processes and get to dive to 25' and have a friend photograph you stuffing an octopus in your mouth...
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Old 02-06-2014, 6:01 AM
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I am going to pile onto this thread since Stilly has already extended an invitation, we are looking to sign up students for our next two reloading clinics. We had a clinic last weekend on Super Bowl Sunday and we had our first female reloader, our first couple who both reloaded and our first female observer (she said she is coming back next clinic to reload too!). We are very eager for the Ventura County Reloading Club to not be a boys club, we welcome women to get into every aspect of the shooting sports. As Stilly has so eloquently pointed out, reloading can save you money, but it is also about fine tuning your ammo, creating ammo that is much more precise and accurate than factory ammo too. If you like detail, are results oriented and want to feel a sense of pride in creating the ammo that you shoot, reloading is a great skill set and hobby on it's own. Many shooters who get into reloading like it more than actually shooting because it is something you can do in your PJs, in your garage, in your living room, if you like, rather than having to load up all of the guns and drive long distances to the range.

We are working on bringing on our first female instructor, we welcome women to come check out our clinic with open arms. We have a really good time, we eat Bacon Cheeseburgers, and the social aspect of the clinics is just as fun as the hands-on part of reloading. You will learn so much about the shooting sports through reloading. Please join us, PM me with any questions or to sign up or sign up in the thread over here on post #245 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=816190&page=7



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Old 02-06-2014, 8:40 AM
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Next time there is a class either on a Sunday or Tuesday near Tracy Ca, I would like to learn this craft.....
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Old 02-06-2014, 9:27 AM
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LittleOldLady, keep an eye out on these threads and you will see upcoming reloading clinics:

San Francisco Bay Reloading Club http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=805506
East Bay Reloading Club http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=809009
Sacramento Reloading Club http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=771013&page=6

Good luck!
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Old 02-06-2014, 1:08 PM
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I got this...

Now, I am absolutely perplexed as to where you got your info and WHY you posted it like you did. Some of it could not be further from the truth. BAHAH! I get it now. You cut and pasted it out of order from some online website. ROTFLMAO!

Please allow me to clear up a few items here.

The most expensive part is the press. The press can cost anywhere from $50 -$2500+ depending on what you want to invest in it. The presses used at the reloading clinics tend to run around the price of $50-$200 but they are all similar in nature (mostly) and not many folks have the expensive ones. I am sure Highlander has a couple, but I would expect him to. He is a high volume shooter who competes IIRC. The more expensive presses are more costly because they are geared for maximum output in the smallest amount of time. meaning they can make 1000+ rounds an hour. I paid $107 for my press and it allows me to make a round every 15 seconds if I keep a rhythm and steady pace with all 4 holes. Else if I only use two I can make twice as much.

I am surprised you did not mention a scale. Some scales for reloading cost as much as $400+ but most folks do not need them. MOST folks seem to enjoy their smaller beam scales that run about $100 or less. I tell EVERYONE to get the Gemini 20 from Amazon.com (made by American Weigh) because it measures 20 grams and it is a milligram scale which means that it will convert to grains and display grains by .02 units. That is good because 99.9% of the time reloaders ONLY need to know .1 grains. This scale is a great scale that carries a backlit lcd panel, tare ability, a 10 year warranty, and runs on a pair of AAA batteries and the total is about $20. Yes, I said $20. I use it and have used it for the past 2.5 years and I trust it very much.

NOW, a word or two about calipers. Sorry, but Starret and the Japanese Mitus are nice, but not needed or used. In reloading, you only REALLY need to measure to .001 and not usually beyond. For this reason, the Harbor Freight $15.00 calipers work FINE as MOST reloaders will tell you. I did not want HF quality so I ordered some digital calipers from Ebay for around $25 and they have been fine, but the HF look kinda similar, but different colors and buttons. Even Dillon, sells Digital Calipers that cost around $80 but look IDENTICAL to the HF ones. Which we all do wonder about by the way... So anyways, calipers only need to cost you $15, $9 on sale at HF.

As for Pistol caliber crimp. Wow... There are TWO types of crimps for pistol ammo, Roll crimp and Taper crimp. Taper crimp is applied to the shell at the end of the down stroke of the press. The same with Roll crimp. The difference between the two is that the Taper Crimp is there to close up the end of the cartridge and hold on to that bullet. (Before you can seat a bullet, you must FLARE or open up the mouth of the case so that it will seat a bullet nicely without shaving off the sides.) Then the die applies the crimp to close it back and make it tight.

Roll crimps apply to revolver or straight walled cartridges. Roll crimps do the same thing, except they tend to dig in a bit more and instead of ending straight they are slightly curved inwards. But the die DOES THAT AUTOMATICALLY. Every die set that has a bullet seater also has a crimper built in (mostly). There is also a thing called a FCD or Factory Crimp Die that Lee puts out that supports and resizes the shell as you crimp. This is for those folks that do not know how to crimp properly and end up messing up their crimps or crimping too hard and buckling their shells. If they took the time to learn reloading, they would know better. We get those folks all the time in the reloading forum and we educate them on how to set their equipment properly.

MOST cases (pistol) are the same or similar length. Obviously .38 and .357, although shot from the same gun are at different lengths. And yes, sometimes if you set up your equipment on a shell that is too short and you get a longer one, you WILL overcrimp but once you see what happened, you just reset your die or back it off a partial turn. Nothing big there. This mostly happens in 44 mag or ANYTHING like that where the brass might have been modified to use a different projectile. Albeit, while being rare, it DOES happen. I have a lot of 44 mag brass that is short due to it being fired from Hornady Leverlution or FTX rounds. It was about 1-2mm shorter from the factory. Most reloaders would simply put those aside or toss them for other shells.

Trimming cases is ONLY done when you full-length resize bottle necked cartridges like the .357 sig, 7.62x25 Tokarev, 7.62x39, or .223. And just about EVERY rifle case that has a shoulder. But for 9mm, .45, .40, .380, .44, .357, .38 ETC, 98.9% of reloaders will tell you they have NEVER trimmed those cases and plan to NEVER trim them. BUT, every now and then a bad case gets in somewhere and you might need to trim it or just toss it. I am up to about 4000 + reloaded .44 mag, 9mm, and .45 ACP and I have not trimmed once yet. But I bought a trimmer for 9mm when I got into reloading because SOMEWHERE I read that you needed to trim your brass... Boy what a waste of money that was. Oh well, better to not need it and have it then to not have it and need it right?

All of this stuff is addressed in the reloading clinic. When people show up we aim to entertain and educate them and then allow them to build ammo on the presses so that by the end of the day, they know a LOT more about it and they can make the decision to get into reloading or not. It is up to them. We put no pressure on them or force them to buy anything. But they do get to build their own ammo and we guide them through each step and when they go out to the range with THEIR ammo that THEY made and shoot it, that is when the real magic starts.

As for money on getting into reloading? Well, yeah, you can CERTAINLY spend a LOT. But you can also spend very little and still make excellent ammunition.

I hope I have cleared up a few things. Ask any reloader where they got their calipers and many will say their HF ones have provided years of quality reloads for them. Starretts would be really neat to have, but at the end of the day, my $25 dollar set performs the same. And I have only been doing this now for over 2.5 years...

If you had posted this in the reloading forum the few that did not laugh would have turned on the flames. BTW, the calipers breakdown did make me laugh. I do not think that anyone that I know of has ever done THAT much research on their calipers. This is my research, does it feel good. Yes. Does it zero out when I press the button? Yes. Is the accuracy repeatable and truthful? Yes. DONE, in the cart and moving on. I also have an analog/dial caliper set that I paid $35 for and they were supposed to be decent quality but I have never used them. I have them in case I need them and my battery is dead in the other one. They are not Starretts or Mitus but I really do not care as long as they stay together and work for me. BTW, I have yet to blow myself up or even get a squib.


Rather then comparing reloading to learning to drive, I think it is better suited towards learning to SCUBA dive. Yeah, you can be a dummy and screw around and get yourself BENT or you can learn the right way from certified professionals and enjoy the surroundings and processes and get to dive to 25' and have a friend photograph you stuffing an octopus in your mouth...
Hmmmm.........If I read this correctly, it would appear that I'd inadvertently 'poked the hornets' nest'......or some such......or maybe inadvertently pressed the 'male ego' button. Well, if such is the case, sorry about that, such wasn't my intention.

Maybe, it might have appeared that I was 'challenging the authority' of someone who has a need to appear to be an 'authority figure'........well, if someone got that idea, again, sorry about that, but its nonsense, really.

I do get the impression that some of Mr Stilly's comment was quite needlessly demeaning and adversarial, so 'counter-productive' at best, more in keeping with the Calguns 'OT' tradition, than within this particular little 'nook' of the Calguns world.

Aside from any socio-cultural issue, it would appear that Mr Stilly and I have some minor differences of opinion. Perchance the best reply to that might be, 'very well, let him load his rounds, and I'll load mine'.

Actually, I would suspect that Mr Stilly and I would have relatively few serious, or 'major' differences of opinion, regarding the practical aspects of loading rounds, and some exploration of those differences, if it could be done in a pleasant and constructive manner, might be useful 'background material', for folks who are just getting into handloading.

For the record, I will admit to a personal prejudice (and when I say 'prejudice', call up the image of the creeps with the sheets and pointy hats, of years ago.) regarding certain classes of cheap metrology equipment, particularly dial calipers.

Its only fair that I explain the reason for this prejudice.

Back in the 1970's and 80's, I was involved in a machine business, not much of a business, as businesses go, just a little 'hole in the wall' operation in which we did contract and sub-contract machining, a good bit of which was mil-spec components.

(and, in many instances, we were not allowed to know what it was that we were making parts for......we just got drawings with sections of the title block cut out, and were told 'make it like this'.....known familiarly as 'MIL-TDD-41', or 'make it like the damn drawing, for once')

In addition to answering the phones and doing the invoicing, etc, I had to 'come up on the learning curve' to do mechanical inspection per mil-spec standards. This is back when dial calipers were first becoming popular, a seemingly wonderful replacement for the vernier calipers which had long been the standard equipment.

Needless to say, I had no choice but to learn about maintaining dial calipers and qualifying calibration on them. The best quality Swiss-made ones were quite reliable, if kept clean, but even those could 'jump' if a speck of dirt got into the 'clockwork'. They were surprisingly accurate over their full range, actually, seldom if ever more than .001 off when read on a gage block stack.

Our machine operators often got cheap dial calipers, thought to be 'cost-effective' for open-tolerance work.

An all too usual failure mode was that they would work alright when new, with known but consistent error, but after a bit of use, would become 'erratic', sometimes reading within .001 of nominal, sometimes .003 to .010 off, but unpredictably so. This was usually due to wear in the mechanism, particularly pinion stems, which, unlike the 'watch-work' quality of the Swiss units, would be soft brass.

Some of these cheap dial calipers seemed to wear out surprisingly quickly, whilst others would become a bit 'erratic' but stay within .005 or so. There were quite a few makes of those, made in quite a number of countries, and some cheap ones were surprisingly well made, whilst others could be best described as 'sub-pathetic'.

So.....thats the story......I admit to 'prejudice' about cheap dial calipers, but, damn it all, I well and truly earned that prejudice, from first-hand experience.

The question here, I suppose, is whether they are 'good enough' for the work at hand.

They might be, for a while, until they get some wear, but any cheap measuring tool is a 'false economy', in my opinion.

cheers

Carla
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Old 02-07-2014, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Asphodel View Post
Hmmmm.........If I read this correctly, it would appear that I'd inadvertently 'poked the hornets' nest'......or some such......or maybe inadvertently pressed the 'male ego' button. Well, if such is the case, sorry about that, such wasn't my intention.

Maybe, it might have appeared that I was 'challenging the authority' of someone who has a need to appear to be an 'authority figure'........well, if someone got that idea, again, sorry about that, but its nonsense, really.

I do get the impression that some of Mr Stilly's comment was quite needlessly demeaning and adversarial, so 'counter-productive' at best, more in keeping with the Calguns 'OT' tradition, than within this particular little 'nook' of the Calguns world.

Aside from any socio-cultural issue, it would appear that Mr Stilly and I have some minor differences of opinion. Perchance the best reply to that might be, 'very well, let him load his rounds, and I'll load mine'.

Actually, I would suspect that Mr Stilly and I would have relatively few serious, or 'major' differences of opinion, regarding the practical aspects of loading rounds, and some exploration of those differences, if it could be done in a pleasant and constructive manner, might be useful 'background material', for folks who are just getting into handloading.

For the record, I will admit to a personal prejudice (and when I say 'prejudice', call up the image of the creeps with the sheets and pointy hats, of years ago.) regarding certain classes of cheap metrology equipment, particularly dial calipers.

Its only fair that I explain the reason for this prejudice.

Back in the 1970's and 80's, I was involved in a machine business, not much of a business, as businesses go, just a little 'hole in the wall' operation in which we did contract and sub-contract machining, a good bit of which was mil-spec components.

(and, in many instances, we were not allowed to know what it was that we were making parts for......we just got drawings with sections of the title block cut out, and were told 'make it like this'.....known familiarly as 'MIL-TDD-41', or 'make it like the damn drawing, for once')

In addition to answering the phones and doing the invoicing, etc, I had to 'come up on the learning curve' to do mechanical inspection per mil-spec standards. This is back when dial calipers were first becoming popular, a seemingly wonderful replacement for the vernier calipers which had long been the standard equipment.

Needless to say, I had no choice but to learn about maintaining dial calipers and qualifying calibration on them. The best quality Swiss-made ones were quite reliable, if kept clean, but even those could 'jump' if a speck of dirt got into the 'clockwork'. They were surprisingly accurate over their full range, actually, seldom if ever more than .001 off when read on a gage block stack.

Our machine operators often got cheap dial calipers, thought to be 'cost-effective' for open-tolerance work.

An all too usual failure mode was that they would work alright when new, with known but consistent error, but after a bit of use, would become 'erratic', sometimes reading within .001 of nominal, sometimes .003 to .010 off, but unpredictably so. This was usually due to wear in the mechanism, particularly pinion stems, which, unlike the 'watch-work' quality of the Swiss units, would be soft brass.

Some of these cheap dial calipers seemed to wear out surprisingly quickly, whilst others would become a bit 'erratic' but stay within .005 or so. There were quite a few makes of those, made in quite a number of countries, and some cheap ones were surprisingly well made, whilst others could be best described as 'sub-pathetic'.

So.....thats the story......I admit to 'prejudice' about cheap dial calipers, but, damn it all, I well and truly earned that prejudice, from first-hand experience.

The question here, I suppose, is whether they are 'good enough' for the work at hand.

They might be, for a while, until they get some wear, but any cheap measuring tool is a 'false economy', in my opinion.

cheers

Carla
When I first replied I was kinda irked that you said what you said. But then I thought, WAIT a sec, this is not OT, and here I am in a forum for the ladies starting to turn up the flames because someone posted what appeared to be an attack on the invitation and for what reason? And then I said, no, I will not do that and I edited and edited and edited. Then I saw a few sentences that I had seen before and I caught on to what you had done. I realize that there are women who look out for their fellow woman. That is fine. But if you are going to post things, you should have current information that is not taken out of context. Whether by accident or on purpose, it is important that people see the full story there, not just a sentence or two that appears scary. I took about 85% of the flame out of my post and tried to turn it around to have a good time, and I did because it reminded me of a book that came out a LONG time ago written by a hillbilly or two on the game of Paintball. NOW. I am sure you know what paintball is. But believe it or not paintball started out with Nelspot pump guns back around 1974 and the folks that played it called it the "Game of Survival" because they ran around solo with maps and compases and camo, not this flambo crap they wear today. I read that book that was written to the last page, Prolly the FIRST book on it ever and when I had read and read and read I wanted to test out my knowledge. Now, the folks that wrote that book knew what they were talking about, but by the time that I had gotten it, it was all too old and the game had progressed a LOT. So when I called up the WarZone in Corona and asked them if they allowed the "ole paintball in the hand trick" and a few other things mentioned in that book, I felt like a complete idiot for their response to me and everytime I think about it, I just laugh to myself. One of my greatest accidents in thinking that I knew what was going on and I had the rug pulled from under me over the phone... Your post reminded me of when I did that. So naturally I had to laugh.

Yeah, I certainly DID poke fun, but it was in fun. There is no malicious intent here. No need to go storming off mad or putting up defenses. I mean, you clearly know a few things about some fine machinery, but that fine machinery is too fine to be used in reloading by the average reloader. If that were the case, we would ALL be blue men. (I will let you figure that one out. ) But we are not, and many of us are Red or Green or Grey. (but nobody brags about being yellow because that team sucks on the biggest level...)

So yeah, maybe you should come to a reloading clinic as an observer and then you can see why the things you said are funny to me and prolly a lot of other reloaders. I am a guy that prides himself on having good stuff, GREAT stuff. I have the best toys on the block (in my own world) and I make colored bullets because I can and because it makes others laugh to know that there is some crazy guy with a vibrator attached to his turret (no pun intended there) pumping out ammo that glows in the dark- LITERALLY.

As for calipers. I will put it to rest...
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=888494
You see where the general direction is heading to I hope...

I am not going to go into much more of the details of what you said because it might just bore people and there is no way to have fun with it here unless someone gets mad. And that is not my goal. That is why we have reloading clinics. In the dynamic world of today with face schmuck and the twitters and jacking into the interwebz the folks who are now coming out and shooting are NOT patient enough or do not have the attention span or self guidance to just sit down and read a book- or they feel overwhelmed with all of the information they think they need to parse through. I was miserable reading my books as easy as they were to read, I was chomping at the bit to start making ammo but I pushed on and I called my friend and asked a million questions after each chapter.

If I had attended a reloading clinic back when I started (3.5 or so years ago) reloading things might have been a bit different. But instead of just ONE guy telling me what to do, I could have seen the difference between several guys telling me how THEY each do it.

I am no expert though and there are guys that have done this WAY longer than me obviously. So anyways, If you think I came off as on a higher horse than you, my apologies, when I see FUD I react sometimes and clean up the mess later. Yeah, I said that. You think I was demeaning, well I thought you were spreading FUD. The counter for FUD is facts. I just did not understand why you would have put all of that there. BTW, EVERY book has a big drawing of the specs for ammunition. There should never really be any doubt as to the mins and max of ammo length. But everything else in between is up for play. Nobody needs to be a Calculous major or rocket surgeon to see what is being said. It has been refined enough to be fairly straight forward with minimal tools needed.

Hey though, if you wanna use Starretts and Mitus and the other top dawgs, go for it. I give you that, but in the end, reloading is more of an ART than a science. You do not even need calipers actually. They got plates of metal and if your case fits through this plate of metal, then it is good to go, and if your finished bullet fits into a go/nogo chamber guage then it is good to go or not go. They got guages for everything for those people that do not know how to use calipers. Heck, these guys still argue over what creates a secondary detonation. It seems that they happen from time to time when all of the moons align and the planets eclipse each other, but once one happens, NOBODY seems able to replicate it so we can get it on the books. hehe. And THAT is why it is an art first, and a science second. OH but at least we narrowed it down to one or two powders... Tipped a certain way, with x amount of air... yeah anyways.

And finally, if I thought that reloading was above anything that any of the women here could do, I would have never extended the invitation. But I am fairly confident that ANYONE in this forum can be a reloader or at least watch and be able to make the decision to get into it or not. And for the record, I did NOT post an invite in the OT forum... Mainly because I did not want FP showing up at my house...

j/k FP... We all know you would never leave your mom's basement to make ammo. Now somebody go PM FP so he can come here and give a two word reply...

If FP wanted to come to a clinic he would be more than welcome if I were hosting it. And I am sure he already knows when they are. He just has too many other celeb appearances he has to make...
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Old 02-07-2014, 7:47 AM
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LittleOldLady, keep an eye out on these threads and you will see upcoming reloading clinics:

San Francisco Bay Reloading Club http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=805506
East Bay Reloading Club http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=809009
Sacramento Reloading Club http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...=771013&page=6

Good luck!
Thanks, I shall keep my eyeballs peeled.....
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Old 02-07-2014, 9:34 PM
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Well, hello again, Mr Stilly,

I do have to admit that you know far more about some things than do I.

You're right, I've never even heard of red or blue or yellow men, in the context you mention, and I've never done any SCUBA diving.

So, we're doing this bit of 'tempest in a tea-pot' over a bit of technical trivia about differing preferences in case prep for reloading?

Alright......you say you have the very best toys on the block, have read some books, and have 3.5 years of experience......not only that, but its modern, up-to-date experience, the very best kind.

That seems fair enough, some of my own practices from years ago could well be considered 'obsolete' these days, and commenting about them could indeed just bore people.

Oh well, you load your rounds, and I'll load mine.

Just as one person's opinion, tho, some aspects of your comments in this 'thread' do seem to be a 'guy thing'...... : )

cheers

Carla
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Asphodel View Post
Well, hello again, Mr Stilly,

I do have to admit that you know far more about some things than do I.

You're right, I've never even heard of red or blue or yellow men, in the context you mention, and I've never done any SCUBA diving.

So, we're doing this bit of 'tempest in a tea-pot' over a bit of technical trivia about differing preferences in case prep for reloading?

Alright......you say you have the very best toys on the block, have read some books, and have 3.5 years of experience......not only that, but its modern, up-to-date experience, the very best kind.

That seems fair enough, some of my own practices from years ago could well be considered 'obsolete' these days, and commenting about them could indeed just bore people.

Oh well, you load your rounds, and I'll load mine.

Just as one person's opinion, tho, some aspects of your comments in this 'thread' do seem to be a 'guy thing'...... : )

cheers

Carla
LoL. Please do not tell me that you trim any 9mm, .45, or .40 or ANY pistol loads for that matter (with the exception of .357 sig and 7.62x25 tokarev).

That is what I am talking about. I have no need to try to outdo you and if I come across like that my bad. I am a humble nice guy typically but every now and then I get a bit awnry. :\ As far as best toys goes, well, they are just that, toys. I have a collection of unusual items that I pride myself on owning because they are just that, unusual toys. And oddly enough they have nothing to do with reloading (for the most part).

Yeah anyways, it seems that everything I say seems to get taken the wrong way so I am stopping it here.

Do you reload? You keep talking about making bullets so I am curious now.

Anyways, if you do not reload or have not done it lately, you might want to consider attending a clinic or just observing to see what goes on. Everyone should. It is a good thing to know how to press your own ammo when loaded ammunition is nowhere to be found on the shelves.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:55 PM
Asphodel Asphodel is offline
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Hello again, Mr Stilly,

Yes, I reload.......and I've been loading rounds for quite a few years.....but I don't claim to be more than a 'reasonably competent mediocrity' in that particular field. I've done load development for a number of rifles, one time and another, but not to the level of 'ultimate precision' done by some of the 'bench rest' shooters who measure 5-shot groups in thousandths.

I may not be as good as that, but not really 'bad', either, if I do say so myself......getting a common 20" bbl M94 Winchester in 30-30 to do sub-moa (over sand-bags, to be sure, and on a windless day) 5-shot groups at 100yds is at least 'reasonably good' load development. Another example might be getting the load optimal for a 30-338, to be able to strike 'point of aim' inside a 3/4" square target patch, cold barrel shot, at 200yds, reasonably consistently.

That was a few years ago, to be sure, and I'm a bit 'out of practice' now.

(I'll be the very first to admit that the class of load work I've done is 'mediocre at best' compared to the loading done by some of the serious precision bench rest folks)

I did a couple of photos of my loading.....and generally gun-tinkering....bench, for you. I can't say I have the best of toys, but, again, not too bad, all things considered.

I 'dummied up' a case-trimming operation for one of the photos, just to illustrate the setup.

The little 1944 vintage "Delta' light pattern drill press was one of my restoration projects, put together from parts of a couple of them which were headed for the scrap dumpster at the closing sale of the Mare Island Naval Shipyard. Note that it carries a 'Wahlstrom' drill chuck, with uses four jaws as compared to the three of a Jacobs or Albrecht pattern chuck, and holds a bit better for concentricity.

Its actually a souvenir of the war (WW2), having been used in the 'submarine gyro shop' which had been a very highly restricted area when still on active duty. There is a really good probability that it was used to build or repair instrumentation for the submarines they built at Mare Island, so its a teeny-tiny piece of war history in its own right.

Its shown for the photo with a setup for '06 cases, but also is used to do uniform length on rimmed handgun cases, the uniform length providing a uniform roll crimp for each batch of loaded rounds.

The other photo is of my little Texan turret press, set up for 38spl. at the moment. The 'Texan' make is an older style, of a bit stronger build than the later other makes, having a cast iron frame, rather than aluminium. The little wrench is an 'oddment', an old Swedish-made 'Bahco' wrench, like the American 'Crescent' except that it is a short handle length but its jaws will open far enough for the lock nuts for dies.

I use the common RCBS presses for rifle calibers, the common RCBS powder scales, etc., but I'm not particular about 'make' per se, just that equipment is best quality and reliable.

Here's the photos, if the links work.....

www.tactical-link.com/cpix/casetrim1.jpg
www.tactical-link.com/cpix/texanpress1.jpg

cheers

Carla
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:59 AM
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NOW I get why I did not understand where you are coming from. You are a very modest precision benchrest rifle woman. I aint even ANYWHERE near that. I just load pistol for plinking and am just starting to get into rifle loading for the AR and other .223 long guns I have, but I am happy to get a 2.5" group at 25'. I am still figurig out what powders are better for certain calibers. Heh- and here I got all excited tonight when I made some .45ACP that were not only PINK, but they GLOWED in the dark too! I am fairly confident that nobody else on my block has glow in the dark bullets

Nice pics. I like to grab tools and keep them around too for what they are and what they represent.
And clearly there is one thing that we BOTH agree on; Ed's Red is some good stuff I have a gallon that I made myself... Well, more like 3/4 gallon now.

Remind me to never piss you off at the range when you are near a rifle.

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  #23  
Old 02-10-2014, 7:27 AM
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actually, just don't piss Carla off in general.....LOL!
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Old 02-10-2014, 9:55 AM
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Carla's going to teach me to reload, as soon as I get the dies and consumables for .30 carbine, unless we get impatient and start with some .45 rounds for me to burn in her 1911. She'll help me find out what combo the little carbine likes. Too bad we can't reload rimfire. I've been going through that stuff like candy.


FWIW, Carla also introduced me to Ed's Red, and that's when I learned that the smell makes me turn a pretty shade of green. I'll stick with Hoppes, thanks.

Stilly, GITD bullets?? *DO* tell! My kind of thing....
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lil Stinkpot View Post
Carla's going to teach me to reload, as soon as I get the dies and consumables for .30 carbine, unless we get impatient and start with some .45 rounds for me to burn in her 1911. She'll help me find out what combo the little carbine likes. Too bad we can't reload rimfire. I've been going through that stuff like candy.


FWIW, Carla also introduced me to Ed's Red, and that's when I learned that the smell makes me turn a pretty shade of green. I'll stick with Hoppes, thanks.

Stilly, GITD bullets?? *DO* tell! My kind of thing....
Good luck on finding components for 30 carbine. Die set- not an issue, but brass might be a bit challenging.

It defeats the purpose, but it might be wise to buy about 100-500 rounds of factory loaded 30 carbine ammo and just save and reload them if brass is tough. Else I know a store in LHC that has brass for .05 per case in some cases... They might have 30 carbine brass, but they did not have any 10mm last time I was there (two months ago).

OH soemone ELSE likes the sound of GITD bullets? (becasue they glow in the dark ,so naturally that makes sound right? ) Let me get a photo and turn it into an animated gif tomorrow hopefully...
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Asphodel View Post

One of the expensive 'first cost' tooling investments for any reloading is a reliable dial caliper with which to accurately measure case length. There are several 'brand X' versions cheaply available, which are simply no good, that is, they may work for a while, but then the mechanism perishes, or becomes inaccurate.

The only good ones are the Swiss 'Tesa' make, also sold/marked as Brown&Sharpe, the Swiss 'Etalon' make, and the American made 'Starrett' make (and read the fine print, Doug Starrett, whom we once saw as a hero, has been having 'knock-offs' of his tools made in China.....so a person has a choice of cheap Chinese-made Starrett-marked 'tools', or the 'made in USA' real article, which isn't so cheap......but is reliable.

(in all fairness to Mr. Starrett, its been said that he had no choice but to have some items made in China, this having to do with some form of political pressure......I don't know the truth of that, but it could be 'plausible'.)

The Japanese 'Mitutoyo' make is a 'gambling device'......some are good quality, some are not.....one may 'get lucky'....or maybe not.

(Yes, I know, one can get a best quality vernier caliper these days, in the Starrett, Brown&Sharpe, or Tumico makes, and very cheaply.......a good one is actually more reliable than any dial caliper, but.....I can tell you from long experience.....even in good light, doing inspection of a large quantity of units with a vernier leads to eye-strain, which leads to the 'headache from hell'. You can find best quality vernier calipers, of the later style fifty thou 'long vernier', surprisingly cheaply on ebay, which will do the work well, but beware of the old style 25 thou 'short vernier'.....guaranteed bad eye-strain after the first couple dozen parts.)

The reason you need reliable dial calipers with which to accurately check case length, for pistol calibers, is that most have a 'crimp' needed to force the case, ever so slightly, into a crimping groove in the bullet.
You're piling it kinda deep there... a $10 Centech digital will cover 99% of anything you're going to do in reloading ammo.
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Old 02-13-2014, 4:39 PM
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All you need to learn to reload is a couple of loading manuals. It is not very hard to do . Probably 6th grade reading skills to comprehend the manuals. Yep a cheap digital caliper is more than enough to reload. Been reloading since 1976. Probably load about 10,000 rounds per year.
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Old 02-13-2014, 7:52 PM
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seems that Carla and Lil Stinkpot have figured out what works for them but I'm glad, Sunday and Fishslayer, that you have figured out what works for you as well.

oh, and welcome to the Ladies Forum!

Mr K's rules re this forum can be found here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=120566 and also don't require much more than 6th grade reading skills......
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:37 PM
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Question for you reloaders; can 30-30 be reloaded. When I bought my Marlin lever action at an auction a few years back, I figured I would be able to buy reloads just like I could for my 9mm, .45 and .38. I guess I figured wrong, since I couldn't find any. I even called a place that specializes in reloads and was told they didn't.

So, do people reload that caliber. I love shooting my lever action, but factory ammo isn't cheap. I shot 150 grain and was happy with that. I bought one box of 170 grain once and I'm no wuss, but decided the 150 was more comfortable.

I also appreciated the gentleman years ago who let me shoot his 45-70, but after one shot, I thanked him and gave him back the other ammo he had given me to shoot. Big, big difference between 30-30 and his ammo.

See you on the 16th and if I get the hang of this reloading thing, I hope to eventually reload 30-30. I like shooting the rifle and my son fell in love with it.
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:57 PM
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My lady just has me do it. Here's the 4k rounds I left her before I deployed



Consider buying used equipment:

1) Reloading is an entirely different hobby than shooting, and a lot of USED stuff is out there from folks that thought they had the temperament but don't.

2) Buy components in bulk. MAXIMIZE that hazmat shipping fee. That 4,000 rounds of 230g 45ACP cost less than $600 to load.

3) Once a progressive press is set up, and one uses the same bullet type/weight, and powder combination that is that (just keep the press clean and lubed up).

4) The only really important piece of equipment needed is a SCALE to set up the correct power weight, and check it from time to time.

5) A caliper is needed to check OAL, but once it’s dialed in that’s that. OAL can also be deceptive depending on bullet type. Personally, I make dummy rounds and load up a magazine and check if they feed and eject without a problem by racking the slide.

Also nice to have is a kinetic bullet puller, and one of those primer flip trays.
It’s as much art as it is science. I load up 10 of a certain recipe and then range test them. Once I get something I like I crank them out by the thousands.

Things I’ve learned to keep in mind. Bullet weight and needed powder charge are DIFFERENT between plated/FMJ and raw lead or moly coated. Lead/Moly get a better seal around the rifling and create more pressure and need LESS powder than jacketed bullets.

Heavier bullets also need L-E-S-S powder relative to lighter bullets of the same caliber. Heavier bullets build up pressure with the extra weight.
So when trying to find powder weight recipes it’s important to make sure weight and bullet type (jacked verses lead) are kept in mind.
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Lil Stinkpot View Post
Carla's going to teach me to reload, as soon as I get the dies and consumables for .30 carbine, unless we get impatient and start with some .45 rounds for me to burn in her 1911. She'll help me find out what combo the little carbine likes. Too bad we can't reload rimfire. I've been going through that stuff like candy.


FWIW, Carla also introduced me to Ed's Red, and that's when I learned that the smell makes me turn a pretty shade of green. I'll stick with Hoppes, thanks.

Stilly, GITD bullets?? *DO* tell! My kind of thing....

Enjoy... My picz do not lie!

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Old 02-14-2014, 3:38 AM
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I see what you did there. How does the extra layer do in the barrel? Any significant fouling?
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Old 02-14-2014, 8:16 AM
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Powdercoat STICKS like duracoat or cerakote. It hugs the lead and does NOT let go, because it is softer and somewhat flexible, it will compress rather than chip or flake off. We are still compiling data on the PC but so far it is a good thing. It actually seems to CLEAN the barrel... :O No fouling at all mainly.
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:50 PM
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Question for you reloaders; can 30-30 be reloaded. When I bought my Marlin lever action at an auction a few years back, I figured I would be able to buy reloads just like I could for my 9mm, .45 and .38. I guess I figured wrong, since I couldn't find any. I even called a place that specializes in reloads and was told they didn't.

So, do people reload that caliber. I love shooting my lever action, but factory ammo isn't cheap. I shot 150 grain and was happy with that. I bought one box of 170 grain once and I'm no wuss, but decided the 150 was more comfortable.

I also appreciated the gentleman years ago who let me shoot his 45-70, but after one shot, I thanked him and gave him back the other ammo he had given me to shoot. Big, big difference between 30-30 and his ammo.

See you on the 16th and if I get the hang of this reloading thing, I hope to eventually reload 30-30. I like shooting the rifle and my son fell in love with it.
Hi, retired

(I get to be 'retired' these days, also)

Yes, 30-30 is one of the easiest cartridges to reload.

I've loaded well over a couple thousand of them, over the years, as I used to use my old M94 to provide basic instruction, introduction to centre-fire rifle shooting, for newbies. The 30-30, with 150's and loads just a little 'softer' than factory rounds, was ideal for that purpose.

The first, obvious question, is whether you have any friends who do reloading and would allow you the use of equipment.

If so, all you need are the dies, powder, primers, and bullets, plus a reliable reloading manual which specifies the details of case length, powders and charge weights to use, etc.

Personally, I like 'Pet Loads' by Ken Waters, a compendium of his work for Handloader magazine, over the years, in which he published the practical test results from a variety of loadings for each of the cartridges he loaded for research purposes.

Mr Waters' chapter on 30-30 goes into great detail of practical test results, with different powders, charge weights, and bullet weights, relative to 'pressure signs' (evidence that a load is too hot, so must not be used), accuracy, and chronographed velocity.

Its reasonable that one of his recommended loadings would be the best place for you to begin. You may find that your particular rifle is more accurate with a somewhat 'softer' load with 150's, or that it 'prefers' 170's at 'factory load' levels.......rifles are individualistic, and the only way you will learn what your rifle 'likes' for best accuracy is by 'trial and error' over time.

If you don't have a friend who has loading equipment and will help you, you can 'improvise' fairly cheaply, with the simple, but slow 'Lee Loader', an old-style simple loading system. The simple instructions for the use of the loader are included with it.

You will also need a best quality powder scale, with the 'check weights' for it, as reliably accurate charge weight is essential both for accuracy and for your safety. The little special tool used to clean the primer pocket is inexpensive.

You needn't invest in a tumbler to clean cases, for small quantities, just polish them gently with fine steel wool, taking care to remove any steel wool particles.

You can avoid the investment in a good dial or vernier caliper by getting a 'case length gage', which holds the case like the rifle chamber, but is hardened, so that you can file off any excess case length safely with a fine-toothed file. Removing the burrs left after filing a case to length is obvious, using the file gently on the exterior of the case mouth, and delicately 'shaving' the 'mouth' of the case with a small, sharp pen-knife blade.

The 30-30 is one of the cartridges in which the case must be 'crimped' into the 'cannelure', a 'crimping recess' in the bullet. Bullets for any tubular magazine 30-30 are specific for that purpose, being flat or soft nose to prevent the bullet tip from firing the cartridge ahead of it in the magazine, during recoil.

The 'over-all length' of a 30-30 round is controlled by the case crimp into the cannelure of a standard bullet specified for 30-30. It is obvious, once seen and compared to a factory round.

You will find that loading for 30-30 is easy, albeit tedious, if you take care to perform each of the necessary steps in the process by exactly following the specified protocol, particularly being certain of the powder you use. In this modern age of the internet, you can find many videos of loading operations on the 'you-tube' programme, so you may observe various details of technique.

(Always keep powder in the original containers, and carefully double-check that any other powders are put well away from your loading area, so that only the desired one is readily accessible), and take particular care to weigh each and every charge accurately. ('thrown' charges 'by volume' with a powder measure are alright, if done carefully, for 'plinking rounds' for handguns, but accurate rifle loadings require accurate charge weight)

The only really bad handloading accident I know of, which has happened recently, was that of an uncommonly negligent man who thought he was loading for his 30-06 with one of the standard rifle powders, such as 4895 or 4064, but, with an amazing level of negligence, loaded '06 with an equivalent charge weight of a fast pistol powder, such as Unique or Bullseye. I saw the photos of what was left of the rifle, when one of those was fired. Fortunately, the firer suffered only minor injury. The 'moral of the story' is obvious )

Added on edit........I had a 'something isn't quite right' feeling after writing the above, and remembered that I'd never used the 'Lee Loader' for 30-30. So......I did some looking on the internet, and, as I feared, the Lee Loader will indeed load 30-30, but a seperate 'crimp die' is required to correctly crimp the case into the bullet cannelure. Apparently, an inexpensive Lee light press and the die required can be obtained from Midway or similar suppliers. It might not be your best investment, tho, all things considered.

If you can find a 'deal' on the smaller pattern of RCBS press (or its equivalent in another good make), and justify the investment for a set of RCBS or equivalent quality dies, it may take awhile to recover the cost of setting-up to load your rounds as compared to just buying factory rounds, but the better equipment will make loading much easier, and you will 'come out ahead' in the long run.

Yet one more edit......no matter which style of dies you use for rifle cases, the cases must be oiled or some 'case lube' applied, so that you don't risk having a case 'sticking' in the die. Use a Q-tip to apply a bit of 'case-lube' to the inside of the case mouth, so that the expander ball runs smoothly. Remember to rinse the cases in acetone or lacquer thinner to remove all traces of lubricant before loading, and allowing time for the solvent to surely all evaporate. Do this outside, as solvent fumes are not good for you.

There is a variety of case-lube which is alleged to be water-soluble, so that you can simply rinse the cases in hot water, and dry them in the oven, at, say, 350-ish deg. for 15 minutes or so. I don't remember the make, tho.

You might, by putting in a 'wanted' advert in the suitable area here, find a 'deal' on a good used light pattern press, when someone is 'up-grading' their equipment. I got one of my RCBS presses at a garage sale, still new in its box, but rusted-up from storage in a damp garage, from someone who 'was going to load rounds, but just never got around to it'......but I'd be embarrassed to mention how cheaply it was offered me.....sometimes one just 'gets lucky'.

cheers

Carla

Last edited by Asphodel; 02-14-2014 at 2:12 PM.. Reason: typos, added some corrections.....sorry about that....
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Old 02-14-2014, 11:21 PM
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Interesting...

Ken Waters has a GREAT book. I had a hunch it came out from magazine columns, then put into two volumes, then finally combined.

GREAT book! It is like cliff notes for reloading! I like how he rates different powders for accuracy or best loads. (Thus the name PET loads...)

Xtreme sells .308 bullets for 30-30. I think they are like 150GR or something, but they will be plated and last I heard they were decent. Cheap too...
http://www.xtremebullets.com/308-150...50fp-b0500.htm

Wow, Carla just summed up about what we will be telling you on Sunday. No need to attend anymore.
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Old 02-15-2014, 1:21 AM
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Hi, Stilly,

If 'retired' is in your area, and can participate in one of your reloading group events, that would be wonderful......its always nice to have the opportunity to socialise a bit with other 'gun freaks'........and.....in all that 'yobble-yobble' above, I only 'skimmed the surface' or 'covered some of the basics'......enough, maybe, to 'just get a start' on some of the details of loading good rounds.

If you can provide 'retired' with the use of a good press, and a good scale, that would be a very helpful thing to do, and, I'm sure, would be quite appreciated.

Theres quite a few little subtleties in load development which can, and hopefully will, make the difference between the usual 2+ moa and a 1 moa 100yd. group, with a Winchester or Marlin lever rifle, and it does take some time and practice.

cheers

Carla

Last edited by Asphodel; 02-15-2014 at 1:38 AM..
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Old 02-15-2014, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Asphodel View Post
Hi, Stilly,

If 'retired' is in your area, and can participate in one of your reloading group events, that would be wonderful......its always nice to have the opportunity to socialise a bit with other 'gun freaks'........and.....in all that 'yobble-yobble' above, I only 'skimmed the surface' or 'covered some of the basics'......enough, maybe, to 'just get a start' on some of the details of loading good rounds.

If you can provide 'retired' with the use of a good press, and a good scale, that would be a very helpful thing to do, and, I'm sure, would be quite appreciated.

Theres quite a few little subtleties in load development which can, and hopefully will, make the difference between the usual 2+ moa and a 1 moa 100yd. group, with a Winchester or Marlin lever rifle, and it does take some time and practice.

cheers

Carla
LoL. I believe he is on the list. Most of the presses seem to be Rock Chuckers or maybe a Lee or two. So he might be leaving a little bit more green then when he showed up.
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