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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-13-2014, 1:51 PM
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Default I WAS WRONG!!!!

Remember I promised I'd exclaim to the world in big bold letters that I was wrong if things turned out differently than I predicted? This is me making good on that, at least for the 9th Circuit portion.

ETA: For those who think it wasn't big and bold enough: I WAS WRONG!!!

We actually won! I'm going to look over the decision, but we actually won Peruta in the Ninth Circuit. I can barely contain my joy and surprise! I nearly fell out of my chair when I got the news.


Now, it's possible that the opposition will request an en banc hearing, it will be granted, and the decision reversed. But for the moment, we WON!!!


This is incredibly huge for as long as it sticks.


ETA: If what I'm reading is correct, the decision has been put on hold pending an en banc appeal. Even so, we won this round, and that in itself is quite amazing.
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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...

Last edited by kcbrown; 02-13-2014 at 1:59 PM..
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2014, 1:53 PM
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STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-13-2014, 1:54 PM
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I dunno. Size 12 font isn't very big. Or bold.


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Old 02-13-2014, 1:54 PM
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STICKY!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND FIRST TOO!!!!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Thanks for being a sport, kc
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Certainty of death... small chance of success... what are we waiting for? --Gimli, son of Gloin; on attacking the vast army of Mordor

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!
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Old 02-13-2014, 1:57 PM
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Good! Now i can get a new sig line!!

BTW, who needs the SCOTUS. Well, we'll see but i don't see this getting over turned.
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  #6  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:00 PM
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Im really glad you were WRONG!
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Old 02-13-2014, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Good! Now i can get a new sig line!!

BTW, who needs the SCOTUS. Well, we'll see but i don't see this getting over turned.
The biggest danger now is that it gets overturned on an en banc appeal. This ain't over yet...
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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
Remember I promised I'd exclaim to the world in big bold letters that I was wrong if things turned out differently than I predicted? This is me making good on that, at least for the 9th Circuit portion.

We actually won! I'm going to look over the decision, but we actually won Peruta in the Ninth Circuit. I can barely contain my joy and surprise! I nearly fell out of my chair when I got the news.


Now, it's possible that the opposition will request an en banc hearing, it will be granted, and the decision reversed. But for the moment, we WON!!!


This is incredibly huge for as long as it sticks.
Here you go, sir, if you are so inclined:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=845492
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
I dunno. Size 12 font isn't very big. Or bold.



Fixed.
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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
Remember I promised I'd exclaim to the world in big bold letters that I was wrong if things turned out differently than I predicted? This is me making good on that, at least for the 9th Circuit portion.

ETA: For those who think it wasn't big and bold enough: I WAS WRONG!!!

We actually won! I'm going to look over the decision, but we actually won Peruta in the Ninth Circuit. I can barely contain my joy and surprise! I nearly fell out of my chair when I got the news.


Now, it's possible that the opposition will request an en banc hearing, it will be granted, and the decision reversed. But for the moment, we WON!!!


This is incredibly huge for as long as it sticks.


ETA: If what I'm reading is correct, the decision has been put on hold pending an en banc appeal. Even so, we won this round, and that in itself is quite amazing.
How about, I was right! LMAO
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  #11  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:11 PM
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Nice to be wrong sometimes eh?

Considering how tightly aligned with Heller etc this opinion was, it is hard to see it being overturned.
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Old 02-13-2014, 2:11 PM
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Haha been waiting to see this thread!
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:15 PM
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The Ninth Circuit is the last place I would have expected to get a win such as this one.

I expect the decisions issued for Richards and Baker will be very similar.

Things have just gotten a lot more interesting. I'm not sure what to expect of the inevitable en banc appeal, but if that appeal fails and the 9th Circuit stands behind this decision, then the longer term implications for many other cases are staggeringly good.


I'm not used to this....
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. Your oath to uphold the Constitution is a joke unless you refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional.

The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:18 PM
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Feels good to smile and have a glimmer of hope for the future, right?

right or wrong, I've always enjoyed reading your thoughts, as depressing and gloomy as they are at times.
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Old 02-13-2014, 2:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
Remember I promised I'd exclaim to the world in big bold letters that I was wrong if things turned out differently than I predicted? This is me making good on that, at least for the 9th Circuit portion.

ETA: For those who think it wasn't big and bold enough: I WAS WRONG!!!
Nothing personal, but I'm OVERJOYED you have to eat crow!
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
The Ninth Circuit is the last place I would have expected to get a win such as this one.

I expect the decisions issued for Richards and Baker will be very similar.

Things have just gotten a lot more interesting. I'm not sure what to expect of the inevitable en banc appeal, but if that appeal fails and the 9th Circuit stands behind this decision, then the longer term implications for many other cases are staggeringly good.


I'm not used to this....
Now you see why many of us have been trying to save you from your gloom and doom days... Think of how many days of this gloom and doom you had to take in? How miserable. Sun shines, grass is green, all is good. Now i have to get back at doing my taxes.
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  #17  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:35 PM
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I don't post much, but find myself agreeing with KC's position more often than not. Guess I'm a bit of a pessimist, too.

Glad to see that you are willing to eat a little crow. I'll gladly pull up a chair and share in the crow eating. Just trying to scoop my jaw up off the floor. Did this really just happen?
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:45 PM
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To be just a little bit of a cloud?

I think there is a high probability (>90%) that this goes en banc. Remember how there was a bit of a win in Nordyke and that one went en banc - and I'm not even sure that the anti-RKBA folk requested en banc that time?

So this will likely be de-published. But that doesn't mean that we lose. If the full circuit court does not sit on the case for years and years I think there is a good chance that we get a final circuit-level ruling which is both favorable and considered even more influential in other circuits than it would be if it were only a 3-judge panel.

Oh, and even if it is taken en banc, you can bet that our pro-RKBA lawyers are right now busily working on filings in other cases. Those filings will liberally cite this ruling so that even when this is de-published it will be influential or binding in the other cases. It's a win for sure even if it doesn't necessarily stick.
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:46 PM
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Hmm, a bit confused about this...
When a judge ruled against/for some gay marriage law in CA suddenly everyone ran to the courthouses and got married, some courts even had workers after hours and on weekends to get the paperwork done and people married.

So this means that someone should be available to process my paperwork on my way home tonight and this weekend I can just go get my CCW??? Right?

BTW, this is NOT gay bashing, it is just pointing out how pathetic the court systems and gov agenda have become.
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Old 02-13-2014, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben View Post
I don't post much, but find myself agreeing with KC's position more often than not. Guess I'm a bit of a pessimist, too.

Glad to see that you are willing to eat a little crow. I'll gladly pull up a chair and share in the crow eating. Just trying to scoop my jaw up off the floor. Did this really just happen?
i admit i had my doubts....and it took so song...im hoping it dont go enbanc...but we know it will....but i would like to know where fabio gets goosed is....no word from him ....hhhhhhmmmmm
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  #21  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:52 PM
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I think KCBrown's entire world just got turned upside down. Doesn't know which way is up, might not be able to even feed himself for several days.


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Old 02-13-2014, 2:53 PM
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Wonder how the AG is feeling right now? This really stunned me and made me believe we can actually win a gun rights case! On to the next one!
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  #23  
Old 02-13-2014, 2:58 PM
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You’re being too modest. The actual results have always been contingent on an en banc review. The prohibitionists will simply never let the matter go. That was the lesson of Nordyke.
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:07 PM
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I am 99% confident that this will go en banc and be overturned there. In order for this to stick, it's going to have to go to SCOTUS.

I know I'm being a pessimist. But decades of living in this crappy state haven't left me with much reason for optimism.
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:13 PM
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Originally Posted by stix213 View Post
I think KCBrown's entire world just got turned upside down. Doesn't know which way is up, might not be able to even feed himself for several days.


LOL.

Well, in my defense, this is going en banc, and there is the (strong?) possibility of reversal there. We're not done with this yet.

But that we got this decision at all is cause for some hope, even from me.
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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #26  
Old 02-13-2014, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulgron View Post
I am 99% confident that this will go en banc and be overturned there. In order for this to stick, it's going to have to go to SCOTUS.

I know I'm being a pessimist. But decades of living in this crappy state haven't left me with much reason for optimism.
I agree. I can't imagine this case not going en banc, and candidly, being overturned. On the other hand, I couldn't imagine getting this decision in the first place.

So, I've decided to set the pessimism aside for a day or two and savor the moment. I'll worry about en banc once it's been granted.
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:20 PM
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Please explain in lamens terms what we won. Little out of the loop here
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  #28  
Old 02-13-2014, 3:22 PM
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I doubt it will be reversed on appeal though I can certainly be wrong, and I am optimistic the SCOTUS won't take it but I expect as many delays on implementation as possible probably stretching out years. I'll be retired and living in another state before CCWs are issued routinely in The Disarmed People's Socialist Republic of Kalifornistan. And people should not rush out to apply: there is no final decision even once the en banc appeal is accepted and decided or rejected: the lower court has had the case remanded back to them but it still gets to re-decide the case after dealing with the reversed point and I would not be surprised to see them drag that out, cheat and retreat style, for a long, long time.
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:25 PM
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
LOL.

Well, in my defense, this is going en banc, and there is the (strong?) possibility of reversal there. We're not done with this yet.

But that we got this decision at all is cause for some hope, even from me.
Like i have told you many times, Illinois!
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:28 PM
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Like i have told you many times, Illinois!
I dunno. Is the composition of the 9th Circuit that similar to that of the 7th?

In any case, I can work out a rough probability of a favorable en banc decision based on the appointees for the judges on the 9th Circuit, presuming that the selection process of the 11 member panel is random.
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The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #31  
Old 02-13-2014, 3:34 PM
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kcbrown - I expect to see you in front of a Safeway this weekend wearing a sandwich board proclaiming you were wrong about Peruta with links to CGF, SAF, and NRA for donations listed below.
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:35 PM
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I've been hoping to see this thread for a long time, kc. More because of the prerequisite conditions, but don't discount the enjoyment we all get in your appeal for forgiveness.
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bulgron View Post
I am 99% confident that this will go en banc and be overturned there. In order for this to stick, it's going to have to go to SCOTUS.
That's what I'm HOPING will happen.

Otherwise, if we win en banc, CA can decide NOT to ask for cert. (like IL), and we may NEVER get a Carry Case before SCOTUS is packed by Obama/Hillary w/antis.
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:41 PM
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I've been hoping to see this thread for a long time, kc. More because of the prerequisite conditions, but don't discount the enjoyment we all get in your appeal for forgiveness.
Heh. Me too.

This is the kind of thing I hate being right about, and it's immensely refreshing to be wrong for a change.


May my "bad luck" continue through the en banc process and the inevitable SCOTUS appeal...
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. Your oath to uphold the Constitution is a joke unless you refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional.

The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
I dunno. Is the composition of the 9th Circuit that similar to that of the 7th?

In any case, I can work out a rough probability of a favorable en banc decision based on the appointees for the judges on the 9th Circuit, presuming that the selection process of the 11 member panel is random.
When it comes to the 2A? YES and en banc will be DENIED
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Old 02-13-2014, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CMonfort View Post
Here you go, sir, if you are so inclined:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=845492
Oh, I very much am, indeed.

Firstly, if this goes en banc, you guys are going to need it. Secondly, if it goes to SCOTUS, you guys are going to need it.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. Your oath to uphold the Constitution is a joke unless you refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional.

The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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Old 02-13-2014, 4:01 PM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
When it comes to the 2A? YES and en banc will be DENIED
I really hope you're right. What I've read in the decision thus far is great stuff. It deserves to stand.
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The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. Your oath to uphold the Constitution is a joke unless you refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional.

The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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  #38  
Old 02-13-2014, 4:02 PM
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Tarn_Helm Tarn_Helm is offline
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Thumbs up Keep up the good work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
Remember I promised I'd exclaim to the world in big bold letters that I was wrong if things turned out differently than I predicted? This is me making good on that, at least for the 9th Circuit portion.

ETA: For those who think it wasn't big and bold enough: I WAS WRONG!!!

We actually won! I'm going to look over the decision, but we actually won Peruta in the Ninth Circuit. I can barely contain my joy and surprise! I nearly fell out of my chair when I got the news.


Now, it's possible that the opposition will request an en banc hearing, it will be granted, and the decision reversed. But for the moment, we WON!!!


This is incredibly huge for as long as it sticks.


ETA: If what I'm reading is correct, the decision has been put on hold pending an en banc appeal. Even so, we won this round, and that in itself is quite amazing.
Can you please hurry up and be wrong about a bunch of other annoying legalities?

1. AW ban/registration
2. The not-unsafe handgun roster
3. microstamping law
4. .50 cal. ban
5. silencer ban
6. etc., etc., etc.

If not, I am grateful for the jinx you put on the San Diego County Sheriff's Dept.!



But do try to put the jinx on other agencies for the remaining annoyances.

__________________
"The Religion of Peace": Islam: What the West Needs to Know.
". . . all [historical] experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms
[of governmental abuses and usurpations] to which they are accustomed."
Decl. of Indep., July 4, 1776

NRA Benefactor/Life Member; Lifer: CRPA, GOA, SAF & JPFO


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  #39  
Old 02-13-2014, 4:18 PM
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scrubb scrubb is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbrown View Post
Remember I promised I'd exclaim to the world in big bold letters that I was wrong if things turned out differently than I predicted? This is me making good on that, at least for the 9th Circuit portion.

ETA: For those who think it wasn't big and bold enough: I WAS WRONG!!!

We actually won! I'm going to look over the decision, but we actually won Peruta in the Ninth Circuit. I can barely contain my joy and surprise! I nearly fell out of my chair when I got the news.


Now, it's possible that the opposition will request an en banc hearing, it will be granted, and the decision reversed. But for the moment, we WON!!!


This is incredibly huge for as long as it sticks.


ETA: If what I'm reading is correct, the decision has been put on hold pending an en banc appeal. Even so, we won this round, and that in itself is quite amazing.
Are you grateful to the NRA? Are you a member?
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  #40  
Old 02-13-2014, 4:28 PM
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kcbrown kcbrown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubb View Post
Are you grateful to the NRA? Are you a member?
I'm a lifetime member and am quite grateful. I'll be donating a substantial amount to their legal effort in the next day or so.
__________________
The Constitution is not "the Supreme Law of the Land, except in the face of contradicting law which has not yet been overturned by the courts". It is THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, PERIOD. Your oath to uphold the Constitution is a joke unless you refuse to enforce unadjudicated laws you believe are Unconstitutional.

The real world laughs at optimism. And here's why.

I hope I end up having to donate another $1000 to CGF... However, this $500 is one I hope to not have to donate...
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