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  #1  
Old 02-10-2014, 4:02 AM
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Default Newest WEGC lawsuit...deja vu all over again with Lipson/Dexter

This is what a real coup looks like....

Larry Lipson and Scott Dexter, not six months after settling their three year lawsuit against WEGC and certain directors/officers, have chosen to VIOLATE that settlement agreement and WITHOUT the authorization of the WEGC Board of Directors, took it upon themselves spend more club money to hire an attorney and file a law suit on behalf of WEGC against fourteen current and former board members/officers and seek a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) against them.

Never mind that if the TRO is issued, all the defendants will have to up possession of all their firearms per California law, including one full time LEO, two retired LEO's, one active reserve LEO and a retired reserve LEO. [b]Never mind that if the TRO is issued, it will disenfranchise the votes of the majority of the WEGC membership who voted the defendants into their current offices in the last election(now THAT is a COUP). *Never mind that they, as sworn officers and Directors of WEGC have chosen to filed this TRO and lawsuit against 14 fellow WEGC members in good standing for the purpose of removing them from the active membership of WEGC WITHOUT the direction of the Board of Directors. Nerve mind they are utilizing club resources without Board of Director approval to initiate this action before utilizing the due process guaranteed all members in the club by-laws. Without a Board of Directors declaration that these fourteen WEGC members are in violation of the by-laws, and having not been censured or disciplined by the Board of Directors, all fourteen of our fellow members singled out by Larry Lipson and Scott Dexter are still officially and legally members in good standing and are being victimized by a blatant and illegal abuse of authority by the president and treasurer. Not only were several sworn LEO's present in the January meeting and in every board meeting, but Lipson and Dexter have failed to produce a single police report in support of their claims.

After dragging West End Gun Club (WEGC) through a three year law suit that cost the club members almost $30,000 and the clubs Directors and officers Errors and omissions insurer aprox. $77,000, Larry Lipson et al are at it again. This time filing suit in Orange County Superior Court (why???... probably to avoid a judge in whose court they signed a settlement agreement of their prior suit that they are now violating) to request a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) against 10 of the 13 original defendants of the law suit three years ago and adding four more current directors who are not drinking the Lipson/Dexter brand of Cool-Aid.


The club had its Directors and Officers Errors and Omissions insurance policy premiums go thru the roof and once the first law suit settled, the insurance company dropped the club. The club could only find ONE insurer willing to provide the coverage at an exorbitant premium and after they get wind of this latest suit the too will be most likely dropping the club, leaving those who give of their time and effort to volunteer and help run the club no protection from suits like this in the future. The result; no one who owns a home or has a family to care for will want to expose themselves and their personal assets to moronic and frivolous actions like this.

Here is a copy of the filing by Larry Lipson on January 31, 2014, two weeks after WINNING the 2011 election for president:











And lets not forget Larry's sycophant, Scott Dexter, the man who took full responsibility for the efforts of others. Specifically, claiming *complete responsibility for the clubs land purchase in his candidate for treasurer statement... a transaction he had little to do with, I know because I was there! I was the WEGC member/ LESA board member who developed the strategy to bring over the money left in the old Lake Elsinore Sportsman's Association (LESA) lead abatement account that WEGC used for the down payment for the land purchase. A transfer that was approved by the LESA board of Directors including myself, current law suit defendants Terry Ahlgren, George Zagursky and Bill Flory. It was Terry Ahlgren, Chuck Herron and myself who conducted the negotiations with our old landlord at the landlords offices. Terry and I structured the terms of the loan to coincide with the annual cash flow of the club and I negotiated the details of the easement into the property to include unrestricted maintenance. Unlike Scott Dexter and Larry Lipson who conducted NO FINANCIAL ANALYSIS or FEASBILITY STUDIES WHATSOEVER before promising the membership to reduce dues to $90, I presented pro forma numbers to the WEGC board of directors reflecting the increase in dues or increase in membership or combination of both needed to service the debt and meet all the clubs other obligations. THAT is what professional and responsible organizational leaders do. Anyone who wants to question this account can contact Chuck Herron

Anyway... here is Scott Dexter's little contribution to the expensive new mess they have brought down on the club and each of us:




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Last edited by Ronin2; 02-10-2014 at 11:12 AM..
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Old 02-10-2014, 4:44 AM
tnlrat37 tnlrat37 is online now
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I was going to try this place out, but it sounds like a disaster over there. Definitely not worth the hassle
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Old 02-10-2014, 9:08 AM
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What a mess these two have caused. I shoot with some of these people and although I wouldn't claim to know them super well, I never took them as anything but decent non-threating guys. These TRO's reek of revenge.
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Old 02-10-2014, 9:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
What a mess these two have caused. I shoot with some of these people and although I wouldn't claim to know them super well, I never took them as anything but decent non-threating guys. These TRO's reek of revenge.


While this is partially true, it really is an attempt by two guys screaming about unfair take over of the club by people who were duly elected within the rules of the game...elections, trying to commit a coup and take over the club with a law suit. They are attempting to invalidate the members vote for these board members/officers in the most recent election by throwing these members off the board and essentially out of the club. Then the president can appoint their replacements.


The problem is that Lipson and Dexter, like Obama , made a bunch of campaign promises that they knew they couldn't keep without the approval of the existing bard of directors/congress. What they are trying to do is replace lawfully elected board members with their own people so they can carry out all their changes: Eliminating 75% of the organized matches pin favor of weekend plinking, reducing the dues from $240 ($20/mo) down to an financially unsustainable $90, eliminating all the proactive management of EPA/Gov regulatory issues etc and the general professional management of a 1600 member club that owns a $1 mm piece of real estate and has a $384,000 annual income.

Lipson has never volunteered to do anything for the club or its membership before. When Dexter was last in office , the club was being run so cheaply that without the influx of cash that I brought over from LESA, the flub probably would have been evicted years ago as it had no reserves for the ability to take advantage of opportunities or absorb emergencies /disasters.

A I alluded to in my OP, I am trying to figure out their motivation, not unlike I try and figure out the motivation to spend millions of dollars for a political office that pays a fraction of that.

They are attempting to destroy the club leadership by removing the people who have been doing all the work with the people who have been doing all the talking. It's a microcosm of the country as a whole I guess.

it was just pointed out to me by a member of the board of directors that only the club membership can approve any changed in dues and that the latest increase was approved with 349 members voting in the affirmative, 115 more members than voted Lipson into the presidency.
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I can think of no decent reason for a gun owner, collector, competition shooter, enthusiast or just plain citizen who believes in Constitutional rights not to be an NRA member.
"Amateurs focus on tactical hardware, professionals focus on the individual's tactical software"

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Last edited by Ronin2; 02-11-2014 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 02-10-2014, 9:42 AM
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If the TRO's go through, would the board be removed (temporarily or permanently)?
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Old 02-10-2014, 9:48 AM
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If the TRO's go through, would the board be removed (temporarily or permanently)?
Unclear. The full time LEO, George Zagurski who is the LESA discipline match director/board member had his deputy's union attorney there to argue against the TRO. He is a lieutenant with the LA Sheriffs Dept and is in fact in charge of the departments civil disobedience unit.( I wish every LEO was a clone of George, he is such a great guy and doesn't deserve all this hassle, none of the defendants do). The defendants are all the guys who built the club up over the last ten years with countless hours and great personal effort, to create a great, private gun club that has more than tripled the number of gun So. California gun owners who have access to the club facilities. The plaintiffs are petty, vindictive men who have done little or nothing for the club and can't be bothered to play by the rules and get their allies elected to office...they want to appoint them.

The clubs retained attorney, who refused to file the suit when approached by Lipson/Dexter due to conflict,represented the club as directed by the lawful board of directors. Additionally the defendants themselves have raised a relatively substantial amount of money in very short order to hire their own attorney separate from the club's. this attorney, unlike the insurance company paid attorney in the prior lawsuit, has marching orders to win, not settle. I suspect that there may be grounds t file an ethics violation with the attorney that Lipson/Dexter did hire for filing a suit on behalf of WEGC without the authorization of the board of directors, who per the by laws;

" The Board shall be the governing body of the Club and shall be responsible for maintaining and operating the Club in the best interest of the membership."


The judge apparently had serious questions about the ability of the president and treasurer to bring a lawsuit on behalf of the club without approval of the board of directors, which is what they have done...clearly a true coup, clearly in violation of the clubs by laws and clearly a violation of their settlement agreement for the prior suit which is why they sought to bring the action in Orange County Superior Court since they are violating the spirit and letter of a settlement agreement reached in San Bernardino Superior Court.

The really ****ty thing about Lipson and Dexter is that they know that should their petty, selfish and legally doubtful TRO be granted, all the defendants will become prohibited persons in California and have to give up all their guns. These two have no honor or integrity and will stop at nothing to get their way. It's truly sad.
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I can think of no decent reason for a gun owner, collector, competition shooter, enthusiast or just plain citizen who believes in Constitutional rights not to be an NRA member.
"Amateurs focus on tactical hardware, professionals focus on the individual's tactical software"

National Rifle Association Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Life Member

"virtute et armis"

Last edited by Ronin2; 02-10-2014 at 1:25 PM..
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Old 02-10-2014, 1:27 PM
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im no lawyer, but wasnt the hearing for the tro's 2/6? or is a decision come later?
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Old 02-10-2014, 1:35 PM
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im no lawyer, but wasnt the hearing for the tro's 2/6? or is a decision come later?
The intial hearing was on 2/6. I was there with the defendants as an intrested WEGC member. The judge voiced grave concern and doubt over the TRO request filing, indicating that the two officers, Lipson and Dexter, may not have had the legal authorization to make the filing. He continued the matter back into his court for earlyApril where the plaintiffs and the defendants will argue the point before him.

So.. the matter continued with no action on the TRO request at this time. The police union attorney, an expert in TRO's, thought the basis for the TRO was laughable and lacked all the crediblity needed to sustain such an action.

Lipson and Dexter seem bent on destroying the club.. and to what end no one knows.

I just cant believe that after winning election, they didnt decide to work within the bylaws like everyone else. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot... LOL. I heard that both Larry and Scott are lousy marksman anyway....
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I can think of no decent reason for a gun owner, collector, competition shooter, enthusiast or just plain citizen who believes in Constitutional rights not to be an NRA member.
"Amateurs focus on tactical hardware, professionals focus on the individual's tactical software"

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"virtute et armis"
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  #9  
Old 02-10-2014, 3:10 PM
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Conspiracy/plot twist 1: both guys got bribed by your favorite anti2a politician to get wegc shut down.

Plot twist 2: both guys try to launder all monies (bc anti2a guys are too forward for us knuckledragging idiot gun owners and won't do for them). Guys get caught. Go to prison.

Plot twist 3: Leo members that had temp restraining filed against them end up working as their guards...


But for serious, I doubt that this is gross incompetence an short sightedness and such a level. I too suspect another agenda. Guess my attempts at wegc membership will be put on hold for a while longer.
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Old 02-10-2014, 4:42 PM
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I'm more inclined to believe that they plan to do what they accused the club leadership of doing. Steal the club's money/land for themselves somehow. Penguin's plot twist 2.
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Old 02-10-2014, 5:55 PM
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Watch your self Ronin, these tools might sue you for libel.
That lipson character came up to me on the firing line one day with his $90 plan and i told him i liked a higher rate for many reasons. He just walked away. Sad that people vote without thinking about the long term consequences. God help us.
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Old 02-10-2014, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Don the savage View Post
Watch your self Ronin, these tools might sue you for libel.
That lipson character came up to me on the firing line one day with his $90 plan and i told him i liked a higher rate for many reasons. He just walked away. Sad that people vote without thinking about the long term consequences. God help us.
I have posted nothing that is not true and accurate or public record OR my personal opinion and clearly such. That said, being legal, accurate and truthful does not keep those two morons from suing you.... I can assure you and them, I will not allow MY 1st amendment rights to be trampled.

The "low information gun owner" is a cheap creature and enough voted for the unrealistic $90 to put him in office. Too bad they are going to possibly be responsible for the destruction of one of the only member owned, safe from encroachment shooting ranges left in the So calif basin.

These guys are also bent on releasing the complete detailed membership list to any member who asks for it....something the past and current board refuse to do and something that the large LEO contingent in the membership may be especially concerned about.

Funny thing.. most all gun owners I know hate the type of person who runs to court and throws frivolous and harassing lawsuits at the drop of a pin... yet enough selfish, uneducated to the facts members voted them into office.
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I can think of no decent reason for a gun owner, collector, competition shooter, enthusiast or just plain citizen who believes in Constitutional rights not to be an NRA member.
"Amateurs focus on tactical hardware, professionals focus on the individual's tactical software"

National Rifle Association Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Life Member

"virtute et armis"

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Old 02-10-2014, 10:02 PM
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Default Putting the TRO's claims into perspective...

Since the defendants are always advised by the attorneys to not comment on prnding litigation, I will comment/respond on it for myself and other WEGC members who have been involved in the process from the begining and are aware of the situation. This is my point by point review of the latest legal action by Lipson et al...It should be noted that Larry was able to put all his spin out there in the suit and in the public domain and the defendants to the first law suit, much of those issues rehashed again in the new complaint requesting the TRO, were advised by their attorneys to not comment publicly or respond to any of his "spin" effectively gagging the defendants and giving larry control of public opinion to some degree.

These are my observations and comments based on first hanf and second hand knowledge as well as factual statements quoted fromt he bylaws


- Interesting to note that the suit was filed in Superior Court of Orange County and NOT the Superior Court of San Bernardino where their first lawsuit against the club was filed amd settled.The only logical explanation to me that they wanted to avoid the prior judge who presided of the settlement agreement that this TRO is in violation of. More on this later I suspect.

- The Plaintiff is West End Gun Club (WEGC) yet the board of directors of WEGC never approved the litigation or the hiring of a lawyer for this action.That should make the action illegal, in violation of the clubs bylaws. I suspect the court may find this action to be a "Willful and malicious violation of the fiduciary responsibility that Lipson and Dexter assumed when they took the oath of office. The WEGC by-laws as amended and adopted 08 JAN 2013 are very clear (see underlined):

ARTICLE IV. BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND OFFICERS


Section 1. The Board of Directors (referred to in this document as the Board) shall be composed of the elected Officers and Directors of the Club, as identified in Article VI and shall serve a term of office of one year.

The Board shall be the governing body of the Club and shall be responsible for maintaining and operating the Club in the best interest of the membership.


Article XI. FINANCIAL
Section 10. The right to purchase, sell or encumber real property by or for the Club is specifically reserved for appropriate action by the Membership and no action by the Board of Directors shall restrict this right unless it is first approved and ordered by a majority vote of the Membership present at a regular, annual or special meeting of the Membership. Except for this limitation and those prescribed by law, the right of the Board of Directors to control the affairs of the Club is sole and exclusive.




- Line 2: I find it laughable that the guys who have talked of reducing the organized shooting matches at the club by 75% listed the clubs stated mission from its bylaws; "



ARTICLE I. CLUB PURPOSE

WEST END GUN CLUB, INC. (hereinafter referred to as the Club) is a non-profit California Corporation (501 (c)(7) Social Club) dedicated to encouraging organized rifle, pistol and shotgun shooting among citizens of the United States, improving the citizens’ knowledge of safe handling and proper care of firearms, improving marksmanship and developing the characteristics of honesty, good sportsmanship, self discipline and self reliance as essential to good citizenship. Further, the Club shall achieve these goals by, among other means, regularly hosting and sponsoring as many different educational shooting and organized shooting related events as possible.


- Line 3 : Larry while having been a member since 1991, has NEVER held office before, served on a committee and as far as I know, never even volunteered to help with any of the programs at the club or volunteer for a club work day. He has no history of helping to do ANYTHING to build the club or serve its members.

- Line 5: Larry asserts the defendants "took control: of the management". That is a gross mis-characterization. These people stood for election and were duly elected by the membership to their board/officer positions. The fact that non one wanted to run for those positions over five years, and anyone could, attests to a.) the good job that the membership thought they were doing or b.) no one wanted to put for the time and effort that those positions entail so no one chose to run for those positions.

Line 7. Larry ran for president and in the process, I believe made several allegations of financial impropriety including fraud, theft against several members of the board of Directors/officers of the club in his prepared campaign statement and in conversations with other club members. When asked by the board to provide evidence of these serious charges so the board could investigate them and take any nessisary action, Larry could produce no collaborating evidence. Hence, the charges were determined to be slander and libelous against other officers/members for the sake of motivating members to his election. Several of the targets of his false statements exorcized their rights to file a written complaint with the board. The board then, per the bylaws convened a board of inquiry (BOI) to look into the changes made by the members slandered. Had the concluded the charges were substantiated by Larry's actions, Larry may have been censured or thrown out of the club. THIS WAS WHEN LARRY FILED HIS FIRST LAW SUIT TO AVOID THE CONCLUSIONS OF THE BOI AND ANY ACTION BY THE BOARD AGAINST HIM (see line 9). He famously referred to this as the 'kangaroo court". He never proved any of his allegations to the court in his first lawsuit so to this day his allegations remain either unproven or have he has been proven to have been WRONG. (see lines .......)

ARTICLE VII. COMMITTEES

Section 3. Regular Standing Committees,

A. Nomination and Election Committee:1. All candidates for Club office shall have access to the two next monthly Club newsletters to publish a maximum one-page biography about their candidacy. Candidates may publish a maximum one-page biography about their candidacy and platform, at Club expense, to be mailed along with the ballots. didate letters must be submitted to the Secretary at the July Nomination meeting to allow time for review and to meet the publishing and mailing time tables prescribed in these By-laws. Language used in these publications shall be civil, contain no profanity and shall not contain any personal degradation of any member. Board shall have authority to edit and remove any inappropriate language or personal slander before publication and shall advise the writer of the edits by e-mail or by telephone.



Line 12. Larry and Scott, in their court ordered injunction had the election for 2011 officers at WEGC ruled null and void.

Line 13. This was on the advice of WEGC's corporate attorneys who with the court and the plaintiffs, agreed to "maintain the status quo" until new elections could be held at the settlement of Larrys law suit. It is my understanding that ALL the continuances and extensions that allowed the suit to drag on for three years were ar the request of the plaintiffs. WEGC and its counsel were shocked that the judge allowed them so much time.

Line 14. As stated above this was the agreement Larry had entered into when he agreed to maintain the "status quo". He was litigating everything and until it was all settled, the court was not going to allow an election. In fact the last election, that Larry won, was court ordered as part of the settlement agreement. One soul note that the superior Court, and the plaintiffs continued to negotiate the terms of the settlement with the defendants in a manner that indicated they were still in office and could legally agree to the settlement terms. The Court recognized this as well.

Line 15, yes Larry and Scott won their respective elections. Out of a club membership of 1603 members, only 411 members cast votes for the office of president. Larry received 234 and his opponent Bill Flory received 173. Despite Larry's claim to represent the "majority of members", only 14.5% of the membership cast a vote for him and his agenda. Scott Dexter received 214 votes to Terry Ahlgren's 198. Scott received votes from 13.3 % of the membership. It should be noted that only 150 members not only voted for Larry/Scott but also "wrote in" their remaining "slate" of Steve McCloskey for VP (140 votes) and Jack Costello for range officer (138 votes) leading ME to believe the remaining 94 votes for Larry Lipson were the 'low information" members voting for the totally unsubstantiated or researched "$90.00 dues".

Line 16. I was at that meeting as were several LEO's and officers of the court. I and no one I know ever heard anyone say "I wish you were dead". Larry phrases this as hearing "someone" so he doesn't have to actually attribute the statement to anyone in my opinion because it was never made. None of the comments Mr Lipson quotes amount to an identifiable threat and the fact that he never filed a police report proves such. In fact the "riot" he describes cam about as a result of his total unfamiliarity with Roberts Rules and their use to control the meeting. He spent a lot of time discussing why he and Scott felt they were able to release the membership list to any member who asked for it.. much to the audiences displeasure.
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I can think of no decent reason for a gun owner, collector, competition shooter, enthusiast or just plain citizen who believes in Constitutional rights not to be an NRA member.
"Amateurs focus on tactical hardware, professionals focus on the individual's tactical software"

National Rifle Association Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Life Member

"virtute et armis"

Last edited by Ronin2; 02-11-2014 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:02 PM
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My commentary continued;

Line 18. The defendants did not pay dues because for three years during the court ordered and plaintiffs agreed to stipulation agreement, they continued to serve in their offices, awaiting the court ordered election. Several stepped down. While I personally do not agree with this, members of the board of directors and officers do not pay dues during the years they serve.this was a club tradition going way back before I joined some 13 years ago.



Line 19. Another glaring example of Larry's logic putting the cart before the horse; make a claim of misappropriation / misconduct and seek the evidence at a later date.. which means they are making the claim WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE. This is exactly what they did in the 2010 elections.



Line 20. More of Larry's disinformation. 1) there was only ONE trip to an NRA Range Development seminar in Portland, OR. where two members of the board of directors were sent to learn about the latest information, procedures and recommendations for developing and managing a shooting range in the modern world of federal, state and local government regulation, EPA regulation etc.. The defendants in question were sent by the club to attend the expensive (seminar fees) NRA sponsored event. Each had their own hotel room paid for by the club as well as their seminar fees. The club paid for their meals and incidentals. Rather than go alone and have the club buy expensive plane tickets for them, the members chose to drive and take their wives. Their wives stayed in their hotel rooms at no additional cost to the club and the wives meals and incidentals were on separate tabs that the club did not pay for. Considering the two members gave up several days to get this valuable information to being back to the club, a 100% NRA club I might add, letting them take their wives at no additional expense was not only reasonable but very customary even in the fortune 50 corporate world I was an executive in prior to my retirement. THERE WAS NO LAS VEGAS TRIP PAID FOR BY THE CLUB FOR ANYONE. This may have been added for effect and induce the "party vibe" that Larry wanted by using the word convention to describe the Oregon trip in stead of the correct "NRA RANGE DEVELOPMENT SEMINAR".



Line 21. How can Larry know/speak to that the members ( in their entirety) never wanted the survey...LOL. The officers, after the land purchase was completed, had a fiduciary responsibility to determine exactly what the land the club did or did not own to 1) make sure that WEGC was not using national Forrest land illegally and 2.) determine where additional range development could occur expand the facilities available to the membership. Any for profit corporations officers or governmental agency managers would to the same it was the "prudent and reasonable " thing to do after a major land acquisition. Does Larry really think that ignorance is an excuse for a violation of the law? If left un discovered and corrected, the illegal use/trespass of/on USDA Forrest land could very easily have been grounds in the future to close the club all together with a standard federal "cease and desist order" followed up with a demand for payment for clean up that could have bankrupted the club... especially with Larry's $90.00 dues scheme in place.. LOL.



Line 23. The Friends of West end Gun Club (FWEGC) is intended to be a not for profit charitable corporation to which corporate donors and members donating money, services and goods can get a tax deduction on their taxes for contributing tangible assets to the club. I seem to remember being told that FWEGC was still waiting to get an IRA approval letter for its tax deductible status. I know these can take up to a year or longer. FWEGC is to be a conduit to being money and valuable assets INTO THE CLUB, not take anything out which would have be illegal. As for the legal paperwork, Larry well knows that he can contact the California Secretary of State and do a search and get all the information he claims he doesn't have. he certainly knows his way around a court house... I am sure he knows this too. Another interesting point, the club started to do this many years ago when Scott Dexter was last Treasurer and HIS SIGNATURE is on the legal documents for that corporation. apparently win the rush to rally the club to buy the land and the daunting task of servcing the debt, that plan was forgotten about, but the point is that mr. Dexter is a hypocrite if he condems the FWEGC and in deed did sign the documents to do the very same thing twelve years ago.



Line 24. This is a bogus claim to justify his request to get rid of his opposition on the board of directors by way of this TRO. Larry has no idea if anyone has a CCW or not. As noted earlier, four of the defendants are active or retired LEO's, hardly a physical threat to him or anyone else and in fact men who would rush to protect Larry and Scott if needed. As noted above, none of the statements he is listed comes anywhere close to constituting a dire threat of physical harm. Larry is just making stuff up on this fishing expedition. This is a vindictive and cruel but of revenge as had it been granted, all the defendants would become prohibited persons and lose their gun rights.

My conclusion: Larry has used the legal system to bully and intimidate WEGC and its members with frivilous and expensive litigation. With the expense of all his litigation and insurance premiums running up, how could he ever think the dues could be reduced to $90...
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:32 PM
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What. A. Mess.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:09 AM
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Wow, I'm so glad that I chose not to join WEGC when the opportunity arose. It sounds like the club will bankrupt itself at this rate in the near future and everyone will lose.
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Old 02-11-2014, 8:04 AM
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Any West End members reading this thread, remember tonight (Feb. 11) is the board meeting. Show up, speak up. It is obvious that adult supervision is needed.
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:14 AM
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Default The Superior Court Of Orange County sees this latest legal action for what it is....

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Originally Posted by foesgth View Post
Any West End members reading this thread, remember tonight (Feb. 11) is the board meeting. Show up, speak up. It is obvious that adult supervision is needed.
Its also interesting to see how seriously the Superior Court Judge took Larry Lipson and Scott Dexters stated imminent fear for their safety as represented under penalty of perjury in the TRO....he continued it for 57 days, focusing not on their clearly manufactured/contrived and unsubstantiated threat, but on the legality of the club President and Treasurer bringing the action on behalf of WEGC without the prior authorization of the WEGC board of directors.

Clearly the court did not believe Lipson and Dexters sworn statement in the TRO that there was a safety issue as the TRO pointed out this evenings board meeting as a potental time and place of the threat.

These guys have usurped their authority at WEGC in a malicious, vindictive, damaging and expenseive manner that the members will ultimately have to pay big bucks for again.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:57 AM
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And from Larry Lipson, Scott Dexter and their supporters/sycophants ...

crickets.....
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I can think of no decent reason for a gun owner, collector, competition shooter, enthusiast or just plain citizen who believes in Constitutional rights not to be an NRA member.
"Amateurs focus on tactical hardware, professionals focus on the individual's tactical software"

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Old 02-11-2014, 1:52 PM
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I'll do my best to make tonight's meeting. I'll be the guy with a wife and 2 year old, stop and say hi.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:56 AM
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I was at the meeting tonight. Boy was I surprised when I figured out that Lipson and Dexter were not there. I hadn't yet seen this thread. I had only been to the January 2013 meeting, when I joined the club. Unfortunately, I was not able to vote against these guys in the election due to still being in my first year of membership. There was no way I supported the range fee decrease or the drastic proposed limits on the shooting disciplines. I hadn't attended other club meetings and assumed they would all be packed and not worth while. I decide to go see who the new circus leaders were, tonight. That didn't happen, but I really enjoyed getting a better look at what is going on in this club.

I decided to join the range after shooting one match. I actually participated in two matches before I was able to join. I didn't even care if I didn't make it out to do "recreational shooting" very often, I wanted to support the group that made the matches happen. I had spent a few years shooting matches at a norco range and had rented a bay down there a few times. I could tell from two visits to West End that it was a much better place. I have enjoyed my recreational shooting at West End very much. I knew they were in a lawsuit when I joined, but they had the most to offer.

Those who are glad they didn't join West End, must have no idea on what they have missed out on. It is the best of BLM land combined with the best of a range facility. This range has allowed me to learn a great deal about the shooting sports. For me, there isn't anywhere else in SoCal that could have provided the same opportunities. It is a shame that the range is now restricted. I liked participating in various disciplines and also just going out to do my own thing. It will take more than some legal BS and hearsay to keep me from enjoying the range and doing what I can as a voting member to keep this range alive and headed in the right direction. $240 per year is a small drop in the bucket vs. what I spend on this hobby/lifestyle as a pro 2A person. I was spending far more money at other ranges and I had no say in what happened. This club is my shooting "home." It is a different experience when you have 24/7 access, many shooting choices, and can be involved in how the place is run. Sometimes you have to be willing to deal with bad to get the good. The good outweighs the bad.

These two guys are something else. They sound like a bunch of antigun liberals. If we don't get them out of the club, the good is going to disappear. I was surprised to hear they were voted in and I wondered how much havoc they would cause a board members. I hoped the board would stand up to them. Well....................it sure didn't take long for the brown mush to hit the rotating mass. I think they knew they would be very limited, if the board wasn't on their side and actually stuck to the club laws. Getting into office is only half the battle.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:19 AM
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I was at the meeting tonight. Boy was I surprised when I figured out that Lipson and Dexter were not there. I hadn't yet seen this thread. I had only been to the January 2013 meeting, when I joined the club. Unfortunately, I was not able to vote against these guys in the election due to still being in my first year of membership. There was no way I supported the range fee decrease or the drastic proposed limits on the shooting disciplines. I hadn't attended other club meetings and assumed they would all be packed and not worth while. I decide to go see who the new circus leaders were, tonight. That didn't happen, but I really enjoyed getting a better look at what is going on in this club.

I decided to join the range after shooting one match. I actually participated in two matches before I was able to join. I didn't even care if I didn't make it out to do "recreational shooting" very often, I wanted to support the group that made the matches happen. I had spent a few years shooting matches at a norco range and had rented a bay down there a few times. I could tell from two visits to West End that it was a much better place. I have enjoyed my recreational shooting at West End very much. I knew they were in a lawsuit when I joined, but they had the most to offer.

Those who are glad they didn't join West End, must have no idea on what they have missed out on. It is the best of BLM land combined with the best of a range facility. This range has allowed me to learn a great deal about the shooting sports. For me, there isn't anywhere else in SoCal that could have provided the same opportunities. It is a shame that the range is now restricted. I liked participating in various disciplines and also just going out to do my own thing. It will take more than some legal BS and hearsay to keep me from enjoying the range and doing what I can as a voting member to keep this range alive and headed in the right direction. $240 per year is a small drop in the bucket vs. what I spend on this hobby/lifestyle as a pro 2A person. I was spending far more money at other ranges and I had no say in what happened. This club is my shooting "home." It is a different experience when you have 24/7 access, many shooting choices, and can be involved in how the place is run. Sometimes you have to be willing to deal with bad to get the good. The good outweighs the bad.

These two guys are something else. They sound like a bunch of antigun liberals. If we don't get them out of the club, the good is going to disappear. I was surprised to hear they were voted in and I wondered how much havoc they would cause a board members. I hoped the board would stand up to them. Well....................it sure didn't take long for the brown mush to hit the rotating mass. I think they knew they would be very limited, if the board wasn't on their side and actually stuck to the club laws. Getting into office is only half the battle.
The ONLY reason that they were not there and are suspended by the Board of Directors is because of their usurping the authority of their offices not two weeks into office by hiring an attorney and initiating legal action on behalf of WEGC against 14 members in good standing, 7 current and 7 past board members, IN SECRET, without the required approval of the Board of Directors, attemting to deny those members of the due process in the club bylaws. Additionally, they apparently have illegally committed WEGC and its members to legal expenses without the approval of the board of directors and

I will never understand why they didn't simple agree to compromise with the board until they could get more of their friends elected to the board. I guess they don't have any friends to run or they did'nt want to wait or they dont like to play by the rules or they are just evil... you all can choose, based on all the info in this thread and the "crickets" on the other side.
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I can think of no decent reason for a gun owner, collector, competition shooter, enthusiast or just plain citizen who believes in Constitutional rights not to be an NRA member.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:34 AM
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I was thinking of joining WEGC but it sounds like its run by "my d*** is bigger than yours" types.
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Old 02-12-2014, 1:48 PM
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So how did the meeting go last night?
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Old 02-12-2014, 2:28 PM
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I was thinking of joining WEGC but it sounds like its run by "my d*** is bigger than yours" types.
The board IS NOT made up of these types.
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Old 02-12-2014, 3:29 PM
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I was thinking of joining WEGC but it sounds like its run by "my d*** is bigger than yours" types.
Please don't join.
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I can think of no decent reason for a gun owner, collector, competition shooter, enthusiast or just plain citizen who believes in Constitutional rights not to be an NRA member.
"Amateurs focus on tactical hardware, professionals focus on the individual's tactical software"

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Old 03-03-2014, 9:45 PM
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Sounds more and more like the Jerry Springer Show. Don't really know who to believe
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Old 03-04-2014, 2:37 PM
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Was lucky enough to attend an event out there a few months ago. Great property, too bad there's so much drama. I don't like drama with my firearms.
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Old 03-04-2014, 3:58 PM
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I was thinking of joining WEGC but it sounds like its run by "my d*** is bigger than yours" types.
It doesn't look like you have researched the club that much or attended any club meetings, which are open to prospective members, as far as I know. I had to go to a meeting to sign up. As above, most of the board are good people who volunteer their time and care about the shooters.

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Sounds more and more like the Jerry Springer Show. Don't really know who to believe
In regards to what? The evidence is there that these two guys are hurting the club, and it's members, and are costing it big money. The members and board need to get these guys out and elect some good people. If the members feel that the previous board was only looking out for competition shooters, then they need to get some new people to run for office and show that they can work in the best interest of the entire club. These two fools obviously can't. There has been no proof that the previous president or other board members have done harm to the club.....I can't say that about Lipson and Dexter.

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Was lucky enough to attend an event out there a few months ago. Great property, too bad there's so much drama. I don't like drama with my firearms.
Did that drama effect your time at the range? Our nation has major drama regarding our rights and our firearms, but we still practice our rights.

(Speaking in general, and not to one particular person here)
Outsiders (from the club) like to paint the picture that using the range is going to involve just as much drama. I guess it is easy to see the reality, since I am a member.

The drama sucks, but it hasn't devalued my membership. Going to Raahauges once a month would cost me more than the membership at West End. None of the other ranges, within an hour or so of me, seem to offer the same benefits for my money. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. I am glad to now be able to vote on the issues in this club as I have now been a member for more than one year. I hope this mess gets cleaned up soon, but I am going to take advantage of what the club has to offer for as long as I can.

If what the club has to offer is not worth the price of membership to someone, then that is fine. Putting the club down when you may not even know what it is like to be a part of it is like free states bagging on California and saying that we deserve what we get with out politicians and laws. The other states don't realize that there are many good, pro 2a, people here. We may be outnumbered by Anti 2A liberals and not have a chance at voting them out, but it doesn't mean we haven't tried or don't care, or that we want the laws we have been stuck with.

The membership at West End is full, at 1600 people. There may be enough people who move on next month to allow some new members. It doesn't look like we have any problem getting people to join, and I don't think having any more than the 1600 member limit would help, so we we will not be impacted if some people think they shouldn't join. What we do need is for our members to take a serious look at club issues and vote in a way that will benefit all of the types of shooters we have. Supporters of Dexter and Lipson must not have seen the bigger picture. We also need people, who really care about the members (rather than their egos or hidden agendas) to step up and run for office. I would be that at least 1598 of the 1600 members are pro 2a, but yet we let ourselves be divided. The bottom line is that we all want to practice our right to pull the trigger.
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Old 03-14-2014, 1:07 AM
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Holly Crap, my eyes hurt! Waaay to much drama, waaay to much reading about such drama, waaay to many jack wagons that have no life!

REALY! WTF is going on here, again??? I have been a WEGC member since 2004. It's not that long but long enough to have heard waaay to much WEGC drama! It's just crazy how some wacked out A@@ Hats can loose their minds getting overly wrapped up into something. No different that the psycopathic liberal activist pushing their adgenda.

I'm a very active shooter and I love the WEGC. It is very close to my front door and I use it very, very, often. All I want is a place to shoot 27/7 with no one looking over my shoulder or telling me I'm shooting to fast, don't wear a holster, step away from the bench, shoot that pistol over there, shoot that rifle over here, wait for a cease fire, step hehind the line, etc.....

The WEGC is just like shooting in the desert but better!
I get a private bay so I dont have to worry about cross fire, little creeper from 18th st eyeballing my equipment or having to drive 100 miles for a little privacy. Plus it is a very safe place to bring my family and close friends to enjoy some shooting without them feeling like they are being scrutinized by a cranky range master. I have only heard them say, can I go with you to "your range." They say "your range" because it is so relaxing there they feel like they are a guest at my house not a security compound like a controlled range. I do run my bay stricter than most RO's. I't just that I don't have a lot of unknown people to look out for so I can be much more personable.

On top of that it is a little comforting knowing that their is a locked gate behind me keeping out the riff raft and some LE from driving up just to check me and my equipment out. I'm not parinoid, unsafe, nor criminal. I just like being left alone when I'm not bothering anyone else.

I do not go to any meetings at all. That is what I pay my dues for, to have the the club's property and finatual needs taken care of. All I want is a good place to shoot. I have to go to Oak Tree once in a while due to my job. They have a cafe / bar, and several shops. I do not want any shops, grill's, bars, you name it, at my range! I want exactly what the WEGC has waiting for me. A private open bay to shoot as I please (safely), a nearly 100% chance of getting that private bay 24/7 on a week day (never have not gotten one in 10 years), and that's about it.

Is the above worth what I'm paying a year, yep for me anyway! As long as my "personal" shooting is not affected and the property is being maintained with a few improvements here and there I'm good to go. I'm a "Member" not "The Owner" of the WEGC. I see my dues as a user fee. I pay a fee and get to use the facility. I don't like the fee, I don't pay it and have to find another place to use. To darn bad the WEGC doesn't have a single owner. No one would talk smack if say, Joe Shmoe the owner bought a big house or new car with the "club dues." You would pay your dues, use the facilities, or STFU and leave.

I try to mind my own business and don't understand why others can't do the same. What more do they want anyway? Aren't they suposed to be "shooters?" What more does a shooter want other than to shoot? No, I don't think these A@@ Hats are realy shooters at all. They are sad little men that don't have a life or friends beyond the little WEGC world that is so very prodominate in their heads. I bet that's all they ever think and talk about, besides,,,you know, other tin hat sort of things.

PS,

CGT80, you posted the above while I was typing this reply. You seem like a good guy and I think you made some very good points.

I have pointed out how nice it is not to have a range master but having one while sharing a large area or even a small one with a lot of unknown shooters can be a very good thing. I have met the current range master that works the conditional (?) member line Fri-Sat. He is a nice guy with a great attitude. We are lucky to have him. Same with the guy who does the maitenace / target weldining work or what ever els he does, another very nice guy.

I realy wish I knew what Lipson and Dexter look like. Like said before, I don't go to meetings, nor do I realy care to get into the politics. But, I have met someone at the range a time or two that acted like he was an over see'er and seemed a little arogant. I wonder if he was one of these A@@ Hats. Anyway, I plan to take better note of the names of people I talk to while there. If I happen up Lispon or Dexter I'm sure to let them have it. It sounds like those two need a fist in the face in a very bad way. WOW, just read my last sentance. It makes me sound like I will do them bodily harm. That's not my plan LOL.... But after all, a man does have the right to defend himself....

Since I do not follow the clubs drama or political climate I don't vote. I leave that up to those that are more informed than me. I'm just a shooter and can't be blamed for those turds holding any form of office. Yep, your right, I'm also not helping the cause to flush the turds out by not being involved. By not voting or participating in the meetings I freely forfiet my right to complain about how the club funds are being used and the condition of the facilities. But, that is not going to stop me from complaining about all the drama and such I get to read about via letters and emails I get. I remember getting an email a long time ago from our resident turds. It was a bunch childish babble about thess guys doing this, those guys doing that, this disapline is doing us wrong because of what ever,,,,, I fondly remember responding with what basicaly said, STFU and leave me alone!"

Last edited by speeder; 03-14-2014 at 2:39 AM..
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Old 03-14-2014, 9:08 AM
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I was thinking of joining WEGC but it sounds like its run by "my d*** is bigger than yours" types.
That's not the case at all. I've been a full member for years, attended some of the club meetings and also participated in some discipline shoots. Every single person I've met and spoke with has been friendly, professional and happy to offer help and advice. I've yet to meet a pushy or overbearing club member.

From what Ronin posted, it appears that Lipson and Dexter got lucky and were elected after most members simply did not return their ballots. I must confess that I may have been one of the "silent" members. I remember receiving the ballot and thinking that Lipson's idea of lowering club dues to $90 was boneheaded and not based on facts, but I don't remember whether I mailed the darn ballot back.

Like most members, I would like the dues to reflect what it costs to run the club while maintaining enough funds for emergencies or contingencies. If that number is $90, fine. If it is $390, that's fine too. Determining what the yearly dues should be is simple. You simply review current (and past) expenditures, merge this with future club goals (site improvements, etc.), and do the arithmetic. It's a simple Excel spreadsheet.

Their lawsuit against club members, in their own words is nothing more than a poorly written, stream of consciousness rant. It is also the act of petty, vicious, small minded people who have an axe to grind. That they would try to destroy the lives of other members is outrageous.

I fully support their permanent removal from the club. There is no place in our club for people who behave in this manner.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:00 PM
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Default Special members meeting set for 1500 hrs, Saturday April 19, 2014....

A special members meeting has been called and scheduled for April 19, 2014 at 1500 hrs, per the club's by-laws, by a petition signed by over 120 full members (and counting) of West End Gun Club. The agenda is to discuss if President Larry Lipson and Treasurer Scott Dexter have committed an act(s) of "gross misconduct" in violation of Article X. Section 4 of the WEGC by-laws (Conduct and Discipline)

Mr. Lipson and Mr. Dexter have been served with notice to attend the meeting to answer to the membership for their conduct and actions. Their fate as officers of the club will depend on their responses and the wishes of a simple majority (50% plus 1) of the voting membership of WEGC.

I encourage ALL members, regardless of your support for, or opposition to the actions of Lipson/Dexter, to refer to the WEGC members only section of the club web site or to the notice on the front page of your March WEGC news letter for more details on the meeting and its location. I STRONGLY encourage ALL WEGC voting members to attend and participate in the governance of YOUR club!

All members will be required to sign in, presenting for verification, both their current 2014 WEGC membership cards and a government issued ID card.


PS... Both the latest lawsuit and the request for TRO against fellow members by Lispon/Dexter were rejected by the court and dismissed, but only after GREAT expense to the club and its members once again!

It is my personal estimate that between the two law suits, Lipson/Dexter and their buddies, mcCloskey and Costello have cost the club over $60,000 in legal fees and increased D&O errors and ommissions insurance premiums. I also heard that an ethics complaint was fliled against the lawyer who knowingly filed the lawsuit on behalf of WEGC at the urging Dexter and Lipson WITHOUT Board of Directors approval.
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Last edited by Ronin2; 03-19-2014 at 10:11 PM..
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:37 PM
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I'll be there
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:19 AM
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I will be there as well. Good to hear this latest lawsuit was tossed out just as the other one. What a waste of club money. Lipson and Dexter need to find other outlets for their anger and frustration and stay away from WEGC.
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Old 03-25-2014, 5:12 PM
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The lawsuit being tossed is good news. Might have to look at going from Limited to Full.
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Old 03-25-2014, 6:11 PM
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I will be there as well. Good to hear this latest lawsuit was tossed out just as the other one. What a waste of club money. Lipson and Dexter need to find other outlets for their anger and frustration and stay away from WEGC.
I agree whole heartedly. Dexter and Lipson in particular, are angry bitter people who have no business representing and running anything in trust for others.

In fact it has been rumored/become known that Lipson went out and got a new smart phone, signing a two year contract with the provider, in the name of west end gun club... again WITHOUT the permission or approval of the Board of Directors. I personally am hoping the board will pursue criminal fraud charges against him given that it may be as much as or more than a $2000 expenditure over its two year contract life (my guess) and that would constitute FELONY fraud!

It seems that while accusing the democratically elected board of committing a coup for the last four years, that truly is what Lipson and Dexter tried to do with the last lawsuit/TRO request IMHO. Also, after accusing some members of the Board of financial mispropriation / malfeasance/ theft / personal gain at members expense over the years, none of which was ever proved in court nor did it happen, Lipson, once installed as President, in addition to running out and filing the lawsuit for his attempted coup, ran out and started spending club money for what appears to be his personal gain (smart phone). You know what they say about someone making all kinds of brash, unfounded accusations: "the skunk always smells himself first....."

We should also not forget the two members who I believe to be their shadow (using terms Lipson likes to throw around..lol) co-conspirators; Steve McCloskey and Jack Costello. I suspect that Costello and McCloskey (both voted out of office years ago) to be the puppet masters behind all of this. If any involvment on their part comes to light I hope will be investigated and if culpable, they too should be held accountable to the membership.
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
I can think of no decent reason for a gun owner, collector, competition shooter, enthusiast or just plain citizen who believes in Constitutional rights not to be an NRA member.
"Amateurs focus on tactical hardware, professionals focus on the individual's tactical software"

National Rifle Association Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Life Member

"virtute et armis"

Last edited by Ronin2; 03-26-2014 at 11:32 AM..
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  #37  
Old 04-21-2014, 4:55 PM
Daydrmr999 Daydrmr999 is offline
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Any word on what happened Saturday? I'm a limited member waiting for a call (application is in) to become a full member and I am very interested in what the outcome was on Saturday.

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Old 04-21-2014, 6:12 PM
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The motion for removal was passed by a vote of 153 for removal versus 18 votes against removal.
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