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  #1  
Old 02-05-2014, 11:33 AM
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Default Question about body armor I was just issued

I work for a FD that recently got rid of the body armor that was issued initially in 1994 in response to the LA riots. In response to the recent active shooter incidents at LAX we were issued new body armor of the Point Blank brand. Not sure what model but it says Body Armor Carrier 65 percent polyester and 35 percent cotton. There is a warning label on the inside of both front and rear vest, "This carrier offers no ballistic protection without ballistic panels being inserted."

I checked the pockets and no panels were found. These vests feel flimsy and less stiff than the 20 year old vests they replaced. Management tells us that these will protect us from pistol rounds but not rifle. Apparently they didn't want to spend money on the good stuff. My question is will these vest do anything without the panels? Rifle or pistol? Or am I walking into a situation with zero protection?


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  #2  
Old 02-05-2014, 11:35 AM
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Default Question about body armor I was just issued

No armor in them!!!!!! Just carriers!!! Fold them up as tight as possible and cram the up the *** of wholm ever bought them!!

No panels they are more than worthless as your not as agile. Which you will have to be seeing as your departments survival strategy depends on the "5 D's".
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by emtmark View Post
No armor in them!!!!!! Just carriers!!! Fold them up as tight as possible and cram the up the *** of wholm ever bought them!!

No panels they are more than worthless as your not as agile. Which you will have to be seeing as your departments survival strategy depends on the "5 D's".

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Old 02-05-2014, 11:58 AM
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Sounds like the dept bought only a limited amount of actual panels and then enough carriers for all employees. Check and see if your station has panels without carriers. My sense is that you will be sharing panels but not the carriers. You would put the panels in your carrier at the start of your shift and then remove when your shift is over. Personally, I would want both issued to me. Hope this helps
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:14 PM
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As far as I know, no one has panels just carriers.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by emtmark View Post
No armor in them!!!!!! Just carriers!!! Fold them up as tight as possible and cram the up the *** of wholm ever bought them!!

No panels they are more than worthless as your not as agile. Which you will have to be seeing as your departments survival strategy depends on the "5 D's".
5 d's?
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:17 PM
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So they bought you carriers with no panels... they just want you to FEEL safe not BE safe.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:25 PM
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The question is do they atleast have SOFT armor installed? Many police departments around here only have soft armor and no plates.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:34 PM
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5 d's?
The 5 D's of dodgeball! Dodge, dip, duck, dive, and dodge!
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  #10  
Old 02-05-2014, 12:39 PM
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They pretty much gave you guys an ugly t-shirt
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2014, 1:01 PM
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They pretty much gave you guys an ugly t-shirt
HAHAHA!!!! This.

Hey OP, if you can't get your department to issue you actual soft body panels, I suggest you get cozy with your local beat cops. Panels have a limited life (but in reality will still function fine past the expiration date), and as a result most departments will have "expired" panels collecting dust in a cabinet somewhere. Invite your local cops into the station for a cup and see if you can get them to give you a pair.
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Old 02-05-2014, 4:32 PM
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Default Question about body armor I was just issued

Quote:
Originally Posted by shooterfpga View Post
The question is do they atleast have SOFT armor installed? Many police departments around here only have soft armor and no plates.
No soft armor. First day we got them I put one on and punched myself in the gut. 20 year old vests that we used to have was at least stiff enough to spread out the impact. These new ones did nothing. We have numerous ex military working for us and I found out through a Union rep that their suggestions for armor was disregarded because our Ops chief didn't think we needed that level of protection because we're not out there hunting Taliban.

If anyone is familiar with Point Blank armor does the carrier provide any protection? Or is that warning label as literate as it appears?

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Last edited by Paul053; 02-28-2014 at 10:59 AM..
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2014, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul053 View Post
No soft armor. First day we got them I put one on and punched myself in the gut. 20 year old vests that we used to have was at least stiff enough to spread out the impact. These new ones did nothing. We have 6 Navy Seals working for us and I found out through a Union rep that their suggestions for armor was disregarded because our Ops chief didn't think we needed that level of protection because we're not out there hunting Taliban.

If anyone is familiar with Point Blank armor does the carrier provide any protection? Or is that warning label as literate as it appears?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Ive owned and been issued multiple point blank manufactured armor. If theres no soft armor then you have a wind jacket. You say theres no soft armor so im concerned youre being lied to about the effectiveness of it. Is there any thickness or heft to it that you may just be disregarding as not being soft armor?
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Old 02-05-2014, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by shooterfpga View Post
Ive owned and been issued multiple point blank manufactured armor. If theres no soft armor then you have a wind jacket. You say theres no soft armor so im concerned youre being lied to about the effectiveness of it. Is there any thickness or heft to it that you may just be disregarding as not being soft armor?
There is a velcro pocket on both front and back of the vest where I could see a ballistic panel fitting into, just no panel. It has less thickness and heft than the flak vests we've had since '94.

Not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure that this is the model.
http://pointblankenterprises.com/poi...=c-series-male

looks like the one I was wearing. You can see the velcro seam above where it says Point Blank. It is also the same materials, 65% polyester and 35% cotton. Just no ballistic panels found in any of the ones we were issued.
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Old 02-05-2014, 5:39 PM
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My PB vest has a soft panel in both the front and back, and a hard trauma plate over the area where your heart is. If you have no panels at all, the vest is worthless. BTW, we were issued new vests every five years due to the breakdown of the soft panels because of sweat.
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Old 02-05-2014, 5:40 PM
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Maybe the intent was to put the old armor in the new carrier....oops
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Old 02-05-2014, 5:44 PM
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According to specs it should include soft armor. Your vest is similar to most modern vests. Are the velcro pockets on the exterior? If so, and its like mine those are strictly only for hard trauma plates. Your soft armor inserts will be on the interior pockets if they are removable like mine. If not your soft armor is possibly permanently stitched into the carrier and non removable non washable.
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Old 02-05-2014, 5:45 PM
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That is frickin ridiculous. If you guys have a union, contact them.

Body armor (soft ballistic panels w/carrier) comes in a big thick cardboard box, and you have to be fitted to get the right size (example: XL Long), replacement carriers come on a coat hanger and will flap in the wind as they are empty...the velcro pocket is for a "trauma plate" which is just more added Kevlar (6"x8" square I believe) to your chest area. Usually (the 4 different vests I've owned throughout my career have been the same) inside of the carrier, near the widest part, you will notice a velcro strip that runs the entire length of the wide way (yea wtf did I just type, horizontally I mean) and that's where you split the velcro and insert the ballistic panels. If you split that open and don't find a panel in there that you could remove that's the same size of that half of the vest you opened, you have zero protection.
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  #19  
Old 02-05-2014, 6:44 PM
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Default Question about body armor I was just issued

The link indicates a concealable ba will they have you wearing this under your duty wear on too of bunker gear! Hot hot hot hot!!
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Old 02-05-2014, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by FailedAngrMgmt View Post
That is frickin ridiculous. If you guys have a union, contact them.

Body armor (soft ballistic panels w/carrier) comes in a big thick cardboard box, and you have to be fitted to get the right size (example: XL Long), replacement carriers come on a coat hanger and will flap in the wind as they are empty...the velcro pocket is for a "trauma plate" which is just more added Kevlar (6"x8" square I believe) to your chest area. Usually (the 4 different vests I've owned throughout my career have been the same) inside of the carrier, near the widest part, you will notice a velcro strip that runs the entire length of the wide way (yea wtf did I just type, horizontally I mean) and that's where you split the velcro and insert the ballistic panels. If you split that open and don't find a panel in there that you could remove that's the same size of that half of the vest you opened, you have zero protection.
Yeah these aren't personalized vests. I'm 6'4" 230lbs and I get to wear the same exact best as my opposite on the other shift who is 5'8" 150lbs chick. We were supposed to each get our own but management waffled at the cost. Yup zero protection. Might be an excuse to buy my own.

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  #21  
Old 02-05-2014, 7:10 PM
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^^^ That's bull****. I was fitted for every vest I was issued. I would not be happy having to wear a vest I was not fitted for.
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Old 02-05-2014, 9:13 PM
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Many panels will continue to work as designed beyond the five year date, however; anyone who is being issued vests deserves to have one less than five years old and within manufacturers specs/warranty period.

Can you post a pic of what you have?
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:24 PM
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I do not know what you have based upon the description...

Most agencies issue NIJ rated 3A vests... It will stop handguns and some shotgun loads.

Vests that can stop rifle rounds are hard and heavy... and statistically very few people are shot with a rifle...

There was a famous shootout with the FBI where no one had on the vests due to a lack of comfort... the Rifle vests also cover a smaller portion of the torso than a properly fit 3A vest....

But speak to your cop buddies and have them look at your gear to ensure panels are in the carrier.

The panels will have the manufacturer information...
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Old 02-06-2014, 1:19 AM
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Yeah I can't tell if you just have the soft armor with no plates, or they handed you some fabric with velcro on it lol.

If it has some weight / heft to it, it should be the soft armor. You should also have pouches for plates.
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Old 02-06-2014, 1:52 AM
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Old 02-06-2014, 5:46 AM
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I think that pictures of said vest would be beneficial in identifying the vest / armor, or lack there of.

Last edited by misplacedpants; 02-06-2014 at 5:47 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-06-2014, 6:08 AM
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Hear hear! Pictures!
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Old 02-06-2014, 6:18 AM
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Uhhh plastic body Armour and a fire...does not sound safe!
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Old 02-07-2014, 7:58 AM
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*crickets*
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:34 AM
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There should be at least one front and one rear panel.
Each panel should have a label on it with size, rating, serial number, etc.
It should also state which side of the panel faces your body which is the label side on all panels that I have seen.

Take it to the range and punch some holes in it with handgun rounds. Then bring it back to management and say it didn't work. I kid, I kid...
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Old 02-07-2014, 12:39 PM
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law suite
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Old 02-07-2014, 1:37 PM
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I don't think I've ever heard a story like this one. Aside from lots of kidding, this is a serious officer-safety issue. And if your department won't get you some panels ASAP, take $750 and go buy yourself a usable set of body armor. Our panels are level IIIA. Get 'em.
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Old 02-07-2014, 4:11 PM
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Its very serious. I hope its resolved.
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Old 02-08-2014, 1:01 PM
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I was waiting for pictures to confirm no panels but OP has not posted any that I am aware of?
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Old 02-08-2014, 3:05 PM
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The velcro "pockets" may be for additional trauma plates.

Are there almost invisible zippers on the bottom edges? Usually there is a way to remove the soft armor panels from the 'vest' so you can wash the cloth outer 'carrier'.
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Old 02-08-2014, 6:13 PM
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OP may be on duty, and not able to respond - those broom hockey games require a lot of concentration (grin).

Seriously, if you were given a carrier that you have to share with another firefighter with no plates, call your union rep and pin a rabbit's foot to your chest because that's better protection than what you were issued. Is it possible the plates were ordered separately and haven't arrived yet?
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Old 02-08-2014, 8:31 PM
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Old 02-09-2014, 3:07 AM
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It sounds like they gave you a tank top and said it's body armor.
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Old 02-09-2014, 8:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emtmark View Post
No armor in them!!!!!! Just carriers!!! Fold them up as tight as possible and cram the up the *** of wholm ever bought them!!

No panels they are more than worthless as your not as agile. Which you will have to be seeing as your departments survival strategy depends on the "5 D's".



The grey Kevlar soft panels are what they mean by "panels". It was saying that the black carrier (the fabric shell) is not ballistic, which is obvious.

The vest is going to feel like a single layer of semi-soft cardboard compared to your old vest. They're very thin in comparison, but they are more comfortable and not as hot. I was issued the same one and I'm a full time LEO. The vests have an additional panel (also soft) that is in the front Velcro pouch.



Last edited by Kestryll; 02-09-2014 at 12:40 PM..
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  #40  
Old 02-28-2014, 10:57 AM
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Default Question about body armor I was just issued

I apologize for taking so long to update. I was away from the station for a few weeks taking a few courses.

That being said after having a local brother in blue educate me on armor, the ones we were issued did in fact come with soft plates that will defeat pistols rounds. No hard plates for rifles. As another poster mentioned there was a small zipper that I didn't see that accessed another pocket that contained the soft plates.

I apologize for the drama. It was my ignorance that caused it. But at thanks to you guys I've educated myself on the subject.

That being said since we don't get issued rifle plates Are they tax deductible if we buy our own?

Last edited by Paul053; 02-28-2014 at 11:03 AM..
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