Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Ammo and Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-01-2014, 12:27 AM
GW's Avatar
GW GW is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 12,656
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default New question re:dies

So
I am running a Dillon 650 set up for .223.
Just started reloading with it and ran into 2 snags
1st Turns out I have a lot more crimped primers in the mix than I originally thought.
2nd: About 10% of the loaded rounds don't pass the EGW chamber checker. About 75% of those do pass after I run them through a sizing die (minus the decapping pin) again.

All of the brass has been shot only once.
Berdan primers and cracked necks, bad dents etc have already been culled.

So... Because I am having to sort so much brass with crimped primer pockets, my solution is to set up my old Lee turret with a Lee resize/decapping die in it.
Pop the old primers and give them a pass through a resizing die. Then sort and swage all the crimped primer-pocket brass. Run ALL of the brass through a tumbler with steel pins.
THEN install an RCBS small base resizing die at the 1st station of the Dillon, toss all the brass in the hopper and give it all another pass through the tighter resizing die and proceed through the rest of the stages.

I am using Hornady One-Shot case lube

Comments?
Anything I am missing?

Thanks
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-01-2014, 12:49 AM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Just a note, others may have had good luck, but I have not had good luck with Hornady one shot on rifle rounds... just letting you know! I use it on my pistol rounds though to smooth things out.

I've had 5 stuck cases with that stuff. The last case took me over two hours to get out -_-.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-01-2014, 12:49 AM
jdmstuff jdmstuff is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Torrance
Posts: 667
iTrader: 32 / 100%
Default

I reload a lot of .223 and these are the steps that I go through:
1. Deprime with a Lee universal depriming die
2. Tumble with SS pins
3. Sort
4. Swage
5. Lube
6. Reload
7. Tumble in dry media to remove lube

I used to use the RCBS dies in my Dillion 550 and have ran into the same sizing issues you're having. I've since switched to the Dillion .223 dies and have not have to run my reloads through a sizing die a second time.
You should be able to continue using the RCBS dies if you reset them. Most guys will tell you not to run dirty brass through a sizing die.

**I didn't skip the trimming step since I reload mainly plinking rounds.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-01-2014, 12:54 AM
GW's Avatar
GW GW is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 12,656
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Sorry, I forgot to add that the brass gets run through a vibratory tumbler with walnut media before resizing. I made the dirty brass mistake long ago.
re: One Shot lube Sorry to hear about the problems Funtimes had. One Shot has been great for my purposes.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-01-2014, 1:25 AM
Funtimes's Avatar
Funtimes Funtimes is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 947
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GW View Post
Sorry, I forgot to add that the brass gets run through a vibratory tumbler with walnut media before resizing. I made the dirty brass mistake long ago.
re: One Shot lube Sorry to hear about the problems Funtimes had. One Shot has been great for my purposes.
I tumble in Walnut, lube, size / deprime, trim, and then back to the tumbler to remove the lube.
__________________
NRA Certified Instructor.
Sig Certified Handgun / Active Shooter Instructor.

2L Student. Nothing is legal advice, just simply my 2 cents worth of opinions.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-01-2014, 11:28 AM
ptmn ptmn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 394
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

I have the carbide Dillon 5.56 and .308 sizing dies. With some Hornady spray lube, it takes very little effort to size, not much more than using a decapper in your single stage press.

If I was in your situation, I would process you brass first by using a carbide sizing die to both decap and size your brass. Then you can decrimp the primer pocket. Tumble you cases, then for the first station in your Dillon, either use a decapping die or a sizing die with the body backed off and the decaying rod extended low to ensure the primer pocket is clear.

Since your cases will already be sized, there will be no resistance from sizing to make the base of your turret flex, which in turn will give you more consistent ammo off your progressive.

Also, your brass will be preprepped using this method on a single stage , so they should all gauge just fine for headspace, since there is no flex issue
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-01-2014, 5:49 PM
Witch Hunter Witch Hunter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lassen County, Ca.
Posts: 154
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

My son just brought over his .223 small base die for me t remove the stuck case. It seems he tried Hornady one shot for the first time yesterday......
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-01-2014, 7:36 PM
chknlyps2's Avatar
chknlyps2 chknlyps2 is offline
.
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Out in the sticks
Posts: 2,594
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GW View Post
So
I am running a Dillon 650 set up for .223.
Just started reloading with it and ran into 2 snags
1st Turns out I have a lot more crimped primers in the mix than I originally thought.
2nd: About 10% of the loaded rounds don't pass the EGW chamber checker. About 75% of those do pass after I run them through a sizing die (minus the decapping pin) again.

All of the brass has been shot only once.
Berdan primers and cracked necks, bad dents etc have already been culled.

So... Because I am having to sort so much brass with crimped primer pockets, my solution is to set up my old Lee turret with a Lee resize/decapping die in it.
Pop the old primers and give them a pass through a resizing die. Then sort and swage all the crimped primer-pocket brass. Run ALL of the brass through a tumbler with steel pins.
THEN install an RCBS small base resizing die at the 1st station of the Dillon, toss all the brass in the hopper and give it all another pass through the tighter resizing die and proceed through the rest of the stages.

I am using Hornady One-Shot case lube

Comments?
Anything I am missing?

Thanks
I did not see trimming or checking for length in your steps, do you trim?



I would:
Tumble
Lube
Size & decap
Trim, chamfer/debur, swage or chamfer primer pockets
Tumble again if needed (I have not with One Shot)
Prime
Powder charge
Seat bullet

Are you crimping in your last step? If you are not trimming, your case length's might be all over the place causing some buckling at the shoulder and not fitting the case gauge.

Also, when you first resize is the die touching the shell plate?
__________________
Wanted: Spent Berdan primed Yugo 7.62x39 & 7.5x55 GP11 Swiss brass
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-01-2014, 7:50 PM
alantani alantani is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 197
iTrader: 33 / 100%
Default

thanks for posting this. i am looking at a 650 as well, i already have a lee challenger press set up just to do the initial resizing and depriming. i've got buckets of pistol and .223/5.56 rifle brass. most of it has been cleaned already, the recently acquired stuff has not been. i am hoping to save a few steps and streamline things.

i am setting aside dedicated carbide resizing dies for the lee press to resize the deprime the dirty brass. i lubricate the cases liberally first. the pistol brass will then eventually be wet tumbled, sorted and reloaded. the dirty223/5.56 brass will be lubed, resized and deprimed, trimmed, deburred, primer pockets bevelled (or swaged), and then wet tumbled, sorted and reloaded. i'm not looking forward to all the case prep for the rifle brass, but after reading abour your experiences, i think i am on the right track. thanks for posting your results.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-01-2014, 11:08 PM
GW's Avatar
GW GW is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 12,656
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chknlyps2 View Post
I did not see trimming or checking for length in your steps, do you trim?

Also, when you first resize is the die touching the shell plate?
No need for trimming, yet. I haven't seen one that needed it yet and the more experienced reloaders I know have been unanimous in that brass reloaded the 1st or even second time won't need trimming. That said, I still run about every 5th to 10th case through a Dillon gauge and so far,what they say has held true.

I think your second question may be the better one as I left my nephew to take over the reloading while I got the food going for family dinner that night.
The problem is I just don't know which of the culls are ones I reloaded vs ones he did.
I will add that ALL of my reloads get run through an EGW chamber checker.

Anyway
Thanks to all who have contributed so far
Please keep it coming.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-02-2014, 8:15 AM
gemoose23's Avatar
gemoose23 gemoose23 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Escaped CA to Iowa
Posts: 1,081
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

What dies are you using? I noticed my Lee dies using the lee lockrings do not give enough adjustment on the 650XL... swapped out to other brand lock rings, now enough threads for full length sizing and checks ok with my EGW case gauge.

Start marking brass with a sharpie... color coded will help out the sorting immensely... known brass vs unknown range pickups etc.

Decapping for swaging:
I would look at investing (they are cheep like 15 bucks) in the Lee Universal Decapper, thus saving you a set of having to re-size 2 times. (i.e. working brass less than needed, less power needed during the reloading process)

But I would just double check your FL die setup and if you are using lee lockrings, there is an easy fix.
__________________
Hornady LnL, Dillon Precision, RCBS, Lee Precision and Lyman User
If You want Match or Leadless hunting Ammo check out Monolithic Munitions Yes I am a shill, friends with the owners.

Last edited by gemoose23; 02-02-2014 at 8:18 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-02-2014, 9:04 AM
mark501w's Avatar
mark501w mark501w is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rivercity
Posts: 1,674
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

My guns run nice with F/L , my buddies needs S/B sizing
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-05-2014, 12:20 AM
GW's Avatar
GW GW is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 12,656
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark501w View Post
My guns run nice with F/L , my buddies needs S/B sizing
I'm guessing then that cases run through a small base die should fit any .223 chamber.
Am I right?
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-05-2014, 8:59 AM
chknlyps2's Avatar
chknlyps2 chknlyps2 is offline
.
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Out in the sticks
Posts: 2,594
iTrader: 44 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GW View Post
I'm guessing then that cases run through a small base die should fit any .223 chamber.
Am I right?
Yes they should as long as the die is set correctly. I have Lee, Hornady and RCBS .223 F/L dies and any of those dies will size brass to fit the 6 .223/5.56 rifles/uppers my kids and I have. I have not had to use a small base die yet.
__________________
Wanted: Spent Berdan primed Yugo 7.62x39 & 7.5x55 GP11 Swiss brass
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-05-2014, 9:32 AM
Nathan Krynn's Avatar
Nathan Krynn Nathan Krynn is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,979
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

I F/L before I S/B on x-dies. I did not at first and ran into similar issues and then READ the instructions and it said to do this so I F/L on a single stage, trim, swage, then into my 650 with the x-die.

I really only use lake city now. I mark them with a marker and then when I sort brass I know what has been on the X-die and then I do not need to run it through the F/L or swage. Ones with out marks do.

I have found with lake city I need to trim most of the time after 1 shot, but with the x-die I do not need to do it again typically before the neck splits or I lost the brass. I do not go 10 thou under either like they say.

I have also found that its the chamber that the round was fired from that determines if it needs a s/b for the next time, but now I just x-die them all as I do not care it works the brass more as I loose them before that and I have a ton of 5 gal buckets full not processed in the shed from when I shot competition. There are more than 1 5.56 chamber specs and I have an old m16 that the rounds need a s/b after, gosh knows the round count on that thing.

Funny people mentioned one shot, I tried it for the first time a few weeks ago and got a ton of stuck cases and thought I was an idiot, even bent the mandrel on the x-die getting the last one out, and they are back ordered.
__________________
Nathan
Tactical Machining
1270 Biscayne Blvd
Deland, FL 32724
Phone 386-490-4464
fax 386-490-4890
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-05-2014, 10:15 PM
GW's Avatar
GW GW is online now
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 12,656
iTrader: 15 / 100%
Default

What are x-dies?
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-06-2014, 5:29 AM
the86d's Avatar
the86d the86d is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pinko-occupied ObamaDerkaderkastan
Posts: 5,493
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

X-Dies are dies that try to reduce the frequency you need to trim bottle-necked brass.
Quote:
The X-Sizer Die features a specially designed mandrel that eliminates the need for repeated trimming after an initial trim of .020" off the maximum case length. The mandrel contacts the case mouth during sizing and reduces the growth rate. Because of an extremely close tolerance between the mandrel and die neck wall, the neck wall of the case does not thicken as the case length is pushed back. Cases repeatedly sized in the X-Die will initially grow a few thousandths of an inch, then stabilize below the maximum case length with no discernable loss of accuracy or case life. Shellholder sold separately.
I have read they do a pretty-good job. I might get one in .223 this year.

Although trimming too short due to trimmer issues works well too.
__________________
"That's what governments are for - get in a man's way." - Captain Malcolm 'Mal' Reynolds

Last edited by the86d; 02-06-2014 at 5:52 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 8:17 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.