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  #81  
Old 01-03-2014, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by shooterfpga View Post
Edited my comment. If i remember correctly you had one built by a vendor here?
Nah i wish, im too broke for the time being. One of the other guys is having one built who posts here quite often. I was picking one of the guys brains from Verowest pretty hard on caliber choices and build options for wssm uppers in a thread which may be what your thinking of.

Id really love to build an AR platform rifle when the funds come around.
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  #82  
Old 01-03-2014, 6:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
First of thanks for all the info and advice.
After seeing what was posted, doing some reading and checking on other foums and such I think I'm going to build up a lower I have in the safe in to a 6.8 spc and once I verify it's accuracy limit it to 200 yards max.

Second I do owe you all a bit of an apology, I kind of played you.

I intentionally asked a bunch of newbie question, reiterated them a few times after getting an answer and opted out of the first suggestion right away.
No one got short, sharp or snide and everyone stayed on topic and polite.
I've seen similar questions handled much the same and some handle much more 'briskly' for lack of a better word.
This is what the Hunting forum can look like to a new member or someone interested in hunting, even if they are not an Admin, and it looks good.
As i suspected.

The only thing is i and many of us know that you know firearms and many of us trust that you understand what we are saying and why.

Additionally, you replied in a cordial, willing to understand way. Many of us can see how agendas and ulterior motives can permeate in ones posts.

Most hunters are not willing to teach a know it all noob who already has their mind made up even though they have no experience. YOU SHOWED YOUR WILLINGNESS TO TAKE ADVICE FROM THOSE THAT MIGHT KNOW BETTER.

You facilitated people wanting to help with the way you asked the questions.

BTW your choice of a 6.8 is a bad one. Especially when you have a 308. Why anyone would want to limit themselves with such a round on a guided hog hunt is beyond me. It's your money though

I personally won't compromise what i think is right for the sake of appearing to be a nice guy in the forum. I will tell someone who asks what i think and why and they can take that for what they think its worth. Or they can tell me what an idiot i am and learn on their own the hard way.

Oh BTW you were trolling us and should be put on a temp ban for violating the rules of the forum

Last edited by taperxz; 01-03-2014 at 6:59 PM..
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  #83  
Old 01-03-2014, 6:59 PM
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Now, back to your regularly scheduled program
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  #84  
Old 01-03-2014, 7:08 PM
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As i suspected.

The only thing is i and many of us know that you know firearms and many of us trust that you understand what we are saying and why.

Additionally, you replied in a cordial, willing to understand way. Many of us can see how agendas and ulterior motives can permeate in ones posts.

Most hunters are not willing to teach a know it all noob who already has their mind made up even though they have no experience. YOU SHOWED YOUR WILLINGNESS TO TAKE ADVICE FROM THOSE THAT MIGHT KNOW BETTER.

You facilitated people wanting to help with the way you asked the questions.

BTW your choice of a 6.8 is a bad one. Especially when you have a 308. Why anyone would want to limit themselves with such a round on a guided hog hunt is beyond me. It's your money though

I personally won't compromise what i think is right for the sake of appearing to be a nice guy in the forum. I will tell someone who asks what i think and why and they can take that for what they think its worth. Or they can tell me what an idiot i am and learn on their own the hard way.

Oh BTW you were trolling us and should be put on a temp ban for violating the rules of the forum
Agreed.

Being a self made hunter with zero people to show me anything about hunting its frustrating when people dont locate simple easy to find info or look for shortcuts whatever way possible. That may just be society now a days even though with the invention of the internet the info is 1,000x easier to access then it ever has been.
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  #85  
Old 01-04-2014, 7:32 AM
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One thing that was failed to mention is pigs may look slow, but they can travel a lot of terrain in a short amount of time and then disappear. I hunt both bolt and semi auto rifles. The semi auto is great for multiple shot deals ( two or more tags and a opportunity to squeeze off multiple shots. But if you familiar with your bolt gun, you can cycle that bolt for a follow up shot amazingly fast when in the hunting moment. I will guarantee you will have a round chambered without even knowing it.
Now I have hunted Tejon ranch and Oceano areas, Tejon has every type of terrain available from flats to rolling hills to conifer Forrest and pigs are in all of it. Shots there can range from under 75 yards to over a mile if you desire. Now Oceano area is what I call pocket hunting, you have a given open pocket for your shot opportunity. Out of that pocket and it is thick brush that will tear you to shreds.
I know of only one pig like animal that will charge at you (unfounded) and that's the collared piccary (Javelina), this is usually when your calling them and it's a herd defensive response. Hogs generally get wind or hear you, they are taking off in the other direction lickety split.
As for calibers, that's the hardest decision YOU have to make. I like the black gun platform, it's very ergonomic, light and easy to use. It's just a tad anemic in stock performance. For me 300 yards is my performance factor, if it can knock it down at that distance it'll be sufficient at anything in between. Now the WSSM versions do have that performance, the .223/ 300 black out don't. Sure if you can stalk to within spec yardage by all means do so, that is hunting! But if there crap between you and you prey then it's not going to happen and the long shot is all you have.
My hog gun is a Remington 740 carbine in 30-06, my dad's old hand me down minute of pig at 300 yards, fairly light and not to bad of recoil. It's loaded with either 168 or 180's depending on the mood.
Give your bolt gun a shot, she needs to draw blood. If it is way too heavy after the first trip then venture to a new rifle of your choice.
Happy hunting!
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  #86  
Old 01-04-2014, 7:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DSMeyer View Post
One thing that was failed to mention is pigs may look slow, but they can travel a lot of terrain in a short amount of time and then disappear. I hunt both bolt and semi auto rifles. The semi auto is great for multiple shot deals ( two or more tags and a opportunity to squeeze off multiple shots. But if you familiar with your bolt gun, you can cycle that bolt for a follow up shot amazingly fast when in the hunting moment. I will guarantee you will have a round chambered without even knowing it.
Yep, no need for a semi auto (unless, it just happens to be your gun of choice). I've watch a friend set a world record 2.608" 5 shot group at 1000 yards in less than 38 seconds with a shell holder action. For those who don't understand, he had to completely remove his bolt, manually remove the brass, insert a new round into the bolt, reinstall the bolt into the action, close the bolt, re aim, fire and repeat until all five shots left his gun. Practice and knowing your gun is more important than just having a semi auto.
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  #87  
Old 01-04-2014, 8:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
Yep, no need for a semi auto (unless, it just happens to be your gun of choice). I've watch a friend set a world record 2.608" 5 shot group at 1000 yards in less than 38 seconds with a shell holder action. For those who don't understand, he had to completely remove his bolt, manually remove the brass, insert a new round into the bolt, reinstall the bolt into the action, close the bolt, re aim, fire and repeat until all five shots left his gun. Practice and knowing your gun is more important than just having a semi auto.
Are you kidding me? That's astounding. What round was he shooting?
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  #88  
Old 01-30-2014, 7:37 PM
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Hogs are totally hyped up on the internet. A .223 with Barnes 62 or 70 gr. TSX will drop hogs under 200 lbs if you are inside 200 yards and it will exit too.

Hogs can charge, but unless they are cornered they are heading the other way.

Hogs are practically blind. I have stocked inside 10 yards with 3 guys and sat there infront of a sow and 2 piglets for 5 minutes. No camo, just blue jeans and t shirts. Stupid things never looked up from eating. When shot it ran away from us and then collapsed. I have personally stalked inside 100 yards on a herd of about 15 hogs with a group of 8 people. Its even easier with just one or two people. They have a good nose, just don't let them smell you or you are busted.

For smaller calibers you have to be picky. You need a broadside into the lungs or ear hole. The good thing is precision is much easier with a small caliber. You can't take a quartering shot through teh shoulder bone on a 300 pound trophy at 600 yards, big deal.

I guess if I had to pay to hunt I would bring a bigger gun. Since its free and we see hogs every time we go I am not worried about passing on marginal shots. Regardless, the gun you shoot well is better than the cannon you hit them in the gut with. A .243 with 80 gr. ttsx or 25-06 with 100 gr tsx is fine. My buddies favorite is his 6.8spc with 95gr ttsx.

I hope to take the next one with my 10mm glock.

This one was the .223 tikka with 62 gr. tsx at about 150. Ran about 50 yards while the lungs bleed out. Stone dead by the time we walked over to it. Left about a 3 inch exit.







The key is I have a lot of trigger time on my gun and know my limitations. I get a lot of practice shooting from many field positions on moving game. I am a firm believer you are better off with the gun you shoot really well rather than the 300 wm you fire 20 rounds a year with. I can't even afford to shoot a 300 wm enough to be proficient with it.

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  #89  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:36 AM
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The two hunter camps; big caliber vs small caliber for hogs. Both camps have their experts, and well reasoned arguments, and will give you personal experiences.

I just read both of these articles before I chanced upon this calgun post..while looking for some hog hammer ammo in .223 I have a .270 but I plan on taking my .223 to loan to a friend on a hog hunt.

The "you can use small caliber" argument.... comes down to know your gun and its limitations in terms of range,and shot placement and select the right ammo which should be on the heavy side or as heavy as possible.

From Guns and Ammo

"Don’t think the .223 has enough oomph to take down a pig? A year ago I might have agreed, but since then I’ve done a lot of hog hunting. In my experience, a heavy, bonded .223 bullet actually works better on hogs than 12-gauge slugs. Sound crazy? I know, but on my last hunt I saw hog after hog soak up one-ounce 12-gauge slugs (one big sow took five and kept on going).

Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/11/20/bringing-home-bacon-best-guns-gear-hog-hunting/#ixzz2rzgsjvyd"



The "you must use a heavy cal argument" is boars are tough and you want a bone breaking caliber that can gives you range and power. Also a fast kill is more humane...

From American Hunter:

http://www.americanhunter.org/articl...n-up-hog-loads

"The .223 Remington and .300 Blackout are better choices than the rimfires but, in my never humble opinion, they are still underpowered to be serious and ethical hog-hunting cartridges. Yes, I know all about the newer high-performance bullets, and yes they help, but they cannot alter the laws of physics. These cartridges simply lack the horsepower needed."

Not trying to start a (w)issing war about .223 vs bigger bullets...my main point here is that you can hunt with smaller loads like the .223 just know the limitations of that load. That means you cant take 400 yard shots with a .223 and you are limited in terms of the angles you can take for a good kill...that might means passing on some shots unless you have a good broad side target etc.

A lot of people seem to agree that with hogs your shot placement needs to be really good. Pigs have a layer of fat that can close up around a decent shot so there is no blood trail, which means the pig runs off and dies, but the hunter has difficulty recovering it...hence the hunter then blames the ammo when it could be a combination of factors such as the ammo has such heavy recoil the hunters shot placement is not precise enough to drop the hog on the spot.

James Tar mentions this in "Bring Home the Bacon"

Acording to Tar "Hogs often take a perfect hit that should drop them in their tracks, and instead they take off running. In fact, you can pretty much be assured that anything less than a perfect shot (spine or one that breaks the shoulder) will send your hog running for at least 50 yards, even if it’s dead on its feet."

Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/11/2...#ixzz2rzm35KS3

Last edited by Warrior King; 01-31-2014 at 7:45 AM..
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  #90  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:48 AM
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The heavy cal argument is boars are tough and you want a bone breaking caliber that can gives you range and power. Also a fast kill is more humane.
And then there are those of us that hunt pigs exclusively on public land, and don't want to pass on a less than perfect shot or risk losing a wounded pig.

I prefer the 30-06. Why? Because I hunt and kill pigs on public land, and they are hard enough to find, let alone get a decent shot on. The 30-06 drops them right now, even with less than ideal shot placement.

I don't usually have the luxury of walking up close to them and sticking it in their ear.
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  #91  
Old 01-31-2014, 7:53 AM
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Hogs are totally hyped up on the internet. A .223 with Barnes 62 or 70 gr. TSX will drop hogs under 200 lbs if you are inside 200 yards and it will exit too.

For smaller calibers you have to be picky. You need a broadside into the lungs or ear hole. The good thing is precision is much easier with a small caliber. You can't take a quartering shot through teh shoulder bone on a 300 pound trophy at 600 yards, big deal.
Name your poison is what I say.
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  #92  
Old 01-31-2014, 2:10 PM
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I really like the idea of hunting all kinds of game with the AR-15 I like this idea because I like to see these used as Sporting /Hunting rifles, it’s good for the political spectrum of things.
With that said, I am going on a guided hunt with Bigboarstopper in a couple weeks and he like’s people using .270 or bigger so I will be using my Sako .270 – but again for Political reasons I really like the idea of using the AR-15 style rifles.
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  #93  
Old 01-31-2014, 2:29 PM
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I really like the idea of hunting all kinds of game with the AR-15 I like this idea because I like to see these used as Sporting /Hunting rifles, it’s good for the political spectrum of things.
With that said, I am going on a guided hunt with Bigboarstopper in a couple weeks and he like’s people using .270 or bigger so I will be using my Sako .270 – but again for Political reasons I really like the idea of using the AR-15 style rifles.
If we do that best to call them "modern sporting rifles" less scary sounding...
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Old 01-31-2014, 3:01 PM
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If we do that best to call them "modern sporting rifles" less scary sounding...
Modern sporting rifle it is
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Old 01-31-2014, 5:10 PM
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If we do that best to call them "modern sporting rifles" less scary sounding...
Ha ha ha ha ha buwahahaha

Guns are used to kill. Period. Why sugar coat it? If someone was shooting at me from 500 yards with a bolt gun in 308 and all i had was an AR 15? I would take cover and get the hell out of dodge. What needs to be preached is that any gun in the wrong hands can kill. (or the rights hands under certain circumstances).

Playing with words is like taking a chapter out of the antis playbook. Laying out facts of real world situations is how we win this battle.

Last edited by taperxz; 01-31-2014 at 5:16 PM..
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Old 01-31-2014, 9:49 PM
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Ha ha ha ha ha buwahahaha

Guns are used to kill. Period. Why sugar coat it? If someone was shooting at me from 500 yards with a bolt gun in 308 and all i had was an AR 15? I would take cover and get the hell out of dodge. What needs to be preached is that any gun in the wrong hands can kill. (or the rights hands under certain circumstances).

Playing with words is like taking a chapter out of the antis playbook. Laying out facts of real world situations is how we win this battle.
My guns were not designed to kill anything. My guns were designed to harvest wild game, a renewable resource.
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Old 01-31-2014, 9:52 PM
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:07 PM
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And then there are those of us that hunt pigs exclusively on public land, and don't want to pass on a less than perfect shot or risk losing a wounded pig.

I prefer the 30-06. Why? Because I hunt and kill pigs on public land, and they are hard enough to find, let alone get a decent shot on. The 30-06 drops them right now, even with less than ideal shot placement.

I don't usually have the luxury of walking up close to them and sticking it in their ear.
I only hunt 2,500 acres of private pig infested paradise. I bet public land would suck. I never seen a hog on public. I can tell you though, 99 percent of the time you I see a buck on public land it is already heading away. The bucks on private land are retarded. They will just go about their business and not care you are there. The coyote also move all day long. At 2 pm in 100 degrees you find coyote just cruising around. You will never see that on public land. I am one lucky SOB to have access to private land. I can see how on public land bigger calibers would be helpful. I also know from experience that any hunting on public land you have to go to the nastiest brush and look for places most hunters bypass. You don't want game to run down a cliff into a thicket after being hit. If you found it you would also have to get it back to the road.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:22 PM
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On the PM, not a 'no' just trying to find where I put the file for my '8 questions for LE candidates'. If I'd have named it something like that it would be easy to find...

I kind of expected the .308 bolt action to be the first suggestion. If I went that route it'd be easy, I'd pick up a Savage Trophy Hunter XP in 308 and be done. The action, trigger and such would be similar to my 10FCP-K, not a hunting rifle by any means but damn ice if you want to take a fixed position and play area denial.

But I just don't like bolt actions really, that's the twist I was referring to.
What would be the suggestions for other than bolt action firearms?
After lots of research, the rifle I bought for this purpose. Nothing fancy with a decent 3-9x Nikon scope included. Very lightweight and a decent trigger when set to the minimum pull weight. I worked up a load with Barnes TSX 165 gr bullets and Varget. Optic zeroed at 50 yards. Our first hunt was a guided affair last November in Paso Robles. After three hours my hunting partner and I had our first pigs. The 120lb female I shot at about 75 yards took the bullet through both lungs and dropped within 15 seconds with the TSX opening up as designed for a quarter sized exit wound. Hope to do it again soon since the meat is all gone and it was simply spectacular!
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Old 02-01-2014, 6:16 AM
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My guns were not designed to kill anything. My guns were designed to harvest wild game, a renewable resource.
That'll show them. People need to quit treating other people like they are stupid. It will go a long way.
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Old 02-01-2014, 8:43 AM
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I only hunt 2,500 acres of private pig infested paradise.
Lucky you.

If I had access to "2500 acres of pig infested paradise", I'd give up the rifles altogether and go archery. I have a similar situation as you but with turkeys, and after a few years it gets tiring just shooting them - too easy.

Actually, public land doesn't suck too bad - I've managed to kill one or two, and it is always nice to be out in the woods. Plus, when I actually see and kill one it is really a moment to savor.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:10 AM
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Ha ha ha ha ha buwahahaha

Guns are used to kill. Period. Why sugar coat it? If someone was shooting at me from 500 yards with a bolt gun in 308 and all i had was an AR 15? I would take cover and get the hell out of dodge. What needs to be preached is that any gun in the wrong hands can kill. (or the rights hands under certain circumstances).

Playing with words is like taking a chapter out of the antis playbook. Laying out facts of real world situations is how we win this battle.
Normally I would agree with you but when the media and our state calls a non military version of a rifle that is semi auto an "assault weapon" given the present situation we have to use every pr device at our disposal to counter that.

There are already lots of precedents. Many here refer to "killing animals" as "harvesting game" and "butchering a carcass" is called "field dressing"

I say in this instance it is better for use to label ourselves and our guns than to let the opposition label us in the least favorable way possible...let the burden be on the enemy to overcome our labels.
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Old 02-01-2014, 8:46 PM
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Your range would be very limited with a 357 or 44mag carbine and I would limit shots to 75yds or less. I own Marlin carbines and used to hunt with them before being forced to load nontoxic ammo when hunting in the "condor" zone. My Marlin loves the Hornady 265gr flat point but when I shifted to copper it wouldn't stabilize a 225gr Barnes. After several emails I learned that the twist rate is too slow and I am now limited to a 200gr XPB.

for the op:


.44 carbine is just fine up to 200 yds...plenty of killing power...the issue is bullet trajectory, understanding the ballistics .

I would consider more what environment and style of hunting pig you intend on...most California hunting is going to be guided on private ranches..and generally they'll park you somewhere fairly distant for the pigs and tell you watch until they show up over yonder, usually come out around 4:30...or dawn...whatever

you'll be looking at 200 yd shots often or longer...this can be really difficult with a .44 carbine.....

now if you were to go to Texas and shoot at distances like 50-150 yds...you'll have a lot of fun with a .44 carbine...but there will be more stalk and shoot rather than sit and wait.

just understand a 225 grain .44 all copper is going to drop about 23 inches at 200 yds...but arrive at 1150 fps and with 655ft lbs energy...enough to kill....but you are "lobbing" the shot..and may want to zero your scope at 150 yds so you can hold high over the target, but still count the moa on your reticle


you want to shoot flat?....go with a .308 and enjoy

as far as using .357 or .44 handgun up close....more than enough to kill pig or bear with a head shot.... your pal is bs'ing you that a .44 bounced off a pigs head....send him to lenscrafters
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  #104  
Old 02-04-2014, 3:17 PM
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Sorry to come late to this party and would like to find out what the OP and Kestryll ended up with. There was some mention of Browning BARs and that made me want to share my experience. Hope it'll be helpful either now or for someone down the line.

I found myself in a similar situation. All of my hunting experience was either upland birds or small game using shotguns. About the time of my 50th birthday I thought a wild hog hunt would be a great way of saying "Bring it!" to my advancing age.

I was looking for suitable a rifle and ended up with a Browning BAR LongTrac in 30-06 for a really good price. The guy at the store said no one liked the "eurostyle" looks and were trying to close it out. I care about the looks of my target groups first, then the practicality for how I'll use it, then the firearm's appearance.

What I liked about it first was how it mounted like a shotgun. Anyone with a shotgun background should look for a rifle that mounts like a shotgun to ease the transition. This one reminded me of a Browning Auto 5 that I used to shoot a long time ago. When I found that the Longtrac came with tabs to adjust the buttstock drop as well as cast, like with a shotgun, it just kept getting better. The barrel length of 22" is very handy without sacrificing too much ballistic performance.

At the time I was subject to the "Hog Hype" mentioned above and wanted to shoot 180 grain bullets. This was just before the lead ban in the condor zone so I had more choices. My BAR really didn't like them but did great with 165 grain loads.

It took one hog at 130 yards while running away. The bullet entered just forward of the left hip and lodged in the skin just in front of the right shoulder. The second was an oncoming shot at 30 yards that entered just below and to the right of the left eye and stopped just short of the right shoulder at the end of the neck. I have no doubt that a .308 Win will work as well. For the most part, the 30-06 has an advantage over the 308 when using heavier bullets. Since my BAR doesn't seem to like the heavier bullets, there not much advantage over the 308.

It has been reliable and accurate. Loading the mag takes a little getting used to since it is attached to a swing down floor plate. You can carry an extra preloaded box mag but it is still tough for me to switch mags on the floor plate and keep my eyes on the target. On the other hand you can port load through the ejection port like a in a semi auto shotgun tactical drill. If I need more than 4 shots to get the job done, I belong at the range and not out hunting.

Since you are interested in the .308, you can get the BAR Shortrac which is the basis for the FNAR. It is possible to buy a kit which replaces the floor plate and allows you to use a regular box mag that inserts conventionally. I've been wanting to find out if you can replace the Shortrac barrel with one from the FNAR. Without a pistol grip you wouldn't have to have a mag lock and wouldn't be paying much more than some of the AR-10 clones.

One complaint is that the barrel is thin and whippy enough that barrel heat changes the point of impact. Once cooled the point of impact goes right back. At least that's how it is with mine. If I was using it for 3-gun instead of hunting it might be more of an issue.

The other is more of a minor pet peeve and that is the aluminum receiver. I know the aluminum alloys are better now but until I know better, I just don't trust aluminum's fatigue resistance to cyclic loads. For now it isn't much of an issue but I view my firearms as future heirlooms and want them to last, even when selling to someone else instead of handing them down. Eventually, I'll sell my Longtrac so that I can buy a BAR Safari with the steel receiver.

One thing you'll have to keep in mind is that there's a reason Outfitters prefer bolt actions: they work. With the BAR you will have to demonstrate that you know what you're doing with it so that they have confidence in your abilities. There's no prejudice, they just want you to have the best chance of being successful.

Everything that's been said about choosing a scope is valid. However, with hogs, if you're choosing a variable, make sure it has good low power properties. As a shotgun shooter for upland birds, you should be no stranger to jump shooting. That's more easily done with the scope at a low power setting.

The other thing is to make sure the scope has good light transmission properties. With the draught going on, I think more and more opportunities will be taking place in that half hour before sunrise or after sunset. I have a Weaver 2.5-10 x 50 mm. I've been happy with it. At the time, it was the only scope in the shop that went down to 2.5 power. It sorta looks like my BAR has clown shoes. However, it's strange looking through the scope at dusk and having to have my eyes get used to the dark after coming out from behind the scope.

I haven't been on a hog hunt for a while but I'm itching to get out and do it again. Hope anyone starting out has as much fun as I have had. For now, I need to find what non-lead loads my BAR likes. I don't reload so I'll have to save up my $$ for factory.

Last edited by TackyDriver; 02-04-2014 at 3:22 PM..
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  #105  
Old 02-04-2014, 9:10 PM
Roboshred Roboshred is offline
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My buddy Charlie and I got 2 pigs each outside
RedBluff and we both used Rem 700s
(VTR/SPS) in 308. Two shot in the heart
While on a full run. ( brush at 80/ open terrain 125)
The last two were 100+ yds at full run shot
Just behind heart and both animals weighed
Shy of 600lbs combined.. The last two had
No pass thru and the first two ( roughly 150lbs each)
Had pass thrus.. The bottom line is we were
Both comfortable with the firearms and the ammo
Did its job. Shoot what you can shoulder rapidly
And easily acquire your target and let the ammo
Do its part.. Good luck to all..
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