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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: Month you're available for training
January 9 25.00%
February 22 61.11%
March 20 55.56%
April 17 47.22%
May 17 47.22%
June 15 41.67%
July 10 27.78%
August 10 27.78%
September 11 30.56%
October 10 27.78%
November 9 25.00%
December 10 27.78%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 01-21-2014, 3:09 PM
Hank15 Hank15 is offline
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Just called him, lunch break will be between 12 and 1 depending on the pace of the class, and will be 45 minutes.
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  #82  
Old 01-29-2014, 12:30 PM
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Has this class been confirmed?
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  #83  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:31 PM
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Yup!

We now have 12!!!
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  #84  
Old 01-31-2014, 12:03 PM
Saym14 Saym14 is offline
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So....

Course outline will be posted soon.



1) Each day will go from 9AM to 5PM unless anyone has any objections.

2) Class will be very fast paced. He mentioned the only thing slowing the class down is usually when people show up without enough magazines or load really slowly.

3). Lunch about 12 to 1245

4). Bring 500 rounds per day (fixed)

5). Pay balance of $375 at the door

6). can u post the address ( I haven't been to prado on years). And anything else we need.
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Last edited by Saym14; 02-01-2014 at 6:54 AM.. Reason: Chg to 500 rounds
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  #85  
Old 01-31-2014, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saym14 View Post
4). Bring 250 rounds per day
So has the round count been reduced from 500/day to 250/day?

I was hoping to get more trigger time than that over a 16-hour course...
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  #86  
Old 01-31-2014, 4:55 PM
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I could be wrong , hank?
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  #87  
Old 02-01-2014, 6:54 AM
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Sorry my mistake 500 per day. Was thing oer course and misread hanks previous post
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  #88  
Old 02-01-2014, 4:13 PM
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Robert will be printing out certificates for the class, so I will be closing the registration soon (probably Monday since that's when he'll be preparing to head out).

As of right now we have 13 shooters!
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  #89  
Old 02-02-2014, 3:02 PM
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woo hoo cant wait

address correct. ?
17501 Pomona Rincon Road

Chino, CA 91708
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  #90  
Old 02-02-2014, 5:42 PM
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Yup!
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  #91  
Old 02-04-2014, 11:16 AM
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Sign up is officially closed.

Thanks to all who've signed up.

Let's have a blast next week!
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  #92  
Old 02-04-2014, 12:56 PM
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What's the final head count for each day?
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  #93  
Old 02-05-2014, 10:49 PM
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Total head count is 15 for day 1, 16 for day 2.

Great turn out everyone, thanks for making this happen!
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  #94  
Old 02-12-2014, 8:55 AM
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Something I hadn't considered until now... how would he like payment? Will he take a personal check or should I show up with an envelope full of cashy money?

Also, any idea on what range we'll be on? May limit wandering when I get there Saturday morning
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  #95  
Old 02-12-2014, 10:29 AM
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In response to a private email I sent to Mr. Vogel asking the same question I received this:

"For the remainder of the payment anything works, cash is always best but a check works too. "
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  #96  
Old 02-12-2014, 11:50 AM
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It looks like the weather is going to be great for the class: mid-70s and partly cloudy.
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  #97  
Old 02-12-2014, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Gruber View Post
Also, any idea on what range we'll be on? May limit wandering when I get there Saturday morning
Condor range, last time I look at the schedule, might be wrong.

When you get to the entry gate on Saturday turn right to pistol/rifle.
The first building is "pistol" with the IDPA match in it that day.
The 2nd building is "rifle" with the trailer in front of it, also the IDPA match.
The 3rd building is "Condor", only place left.

Last edited by Jerrywho; 02-12-2014 at 11:57 AM..
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  #98  
Old 02-12-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFM000 View Post
In response to a private email I sent to Mr. Vogel asking the same question I received this:

"For the remainder of the payment anything works, cash is always best but a check works too. "
anything ? credit cards?
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  #99  
Old 02-12-2014, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrywho View Post
Condor range, last time I look at the schedule, might be wrong.

When you get to the entry gate on Saturday turn right to pistol/rifle.
The first building is "pistol" with the IDPA match in it that day.
The 2nd building is "rifle" with the trailer in front of it, also the IDPA match.
The 3rd building is "Condor", only place left.
Totally forgot that the IDPA was that Saturday as well. I'm sure it's too late to arrange something like this, but it would've been cool if Robert's class was a squad at the IDPA match for the day and he walks you through the match stage by stage. Beginning with a walkthrough, how to read the stage, make a plan, execute, change your plan based on a miss, ...

It would definitely be geared more towards seasoned IDPA competitors given the venue, but the concepts could be easily applied to USPSA, 3 Gun, ...

Last edited by RoundEye; 02-12-2014 at 12:35 PM..
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  #100  
Old 02-12-2014, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundEye View Post
Totally forgot that the IDPA was that Saturday as well. I'm sure it's too late to arrange something like this, but it would've been cool if Robert's class was a squad at the IDPA match for the day and he walks you through the match stage by stage. Beginning with a walkthrough, how to read the stage, make a plan, execute, change your plan based on a miss, ...

It would definitely be geared more towards seasoned IDPA competitors given the venue, but the concepts could be easily applied to USPSA, 3 Gun, ...
Unfortunately, being coached in IDPA style would be extraordinarily bad for those of us who shoot USPSA exclusively these days.

I'm really hoping that day one won't completely be taken up by lectures and basics. Or if it is, that he'll take some time to give the more advanced guys something to work on while he shepherds the newer folks.
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  #101  
Old 02-13-2014, 12:03 AM
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Who's ready for 1000 rounds down range this weekend?!

If anyone's interested, I can do a lunch run for everyone so we can spend more time on the range.

Also, speaking of rounds down range, anyone have 45 factory loads that they'd like to unload?
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  #102  
Old 02-13-2014, 7:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank15 View Post
Also, speaking of rounds down range, anyone have 45 factory loads that they'd like to unload?
Well, I'm not going to be there until Sunday, but how much are you looking for? Also, LAX is having a parking lot sale and will have WWB for $20/50 if you but 500.
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  #103  
Old 02-13-2014, 8:55 AM
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Hank, can you please confirm the cost of the class? I've heard $425 and $375.
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  #104  
Old 02-13-2014, 5:17 PM
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I was looking for about 500, so I don't have to reload so much.

The total cost of the class is $425. The reason people say $375 is because they've paid their $50 deposit.
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  #105  
Old 02-13-2014, 8:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank15 View Post
Who's ready for 1000 rounds down range this weekend?!

If anyone's interested, I can do a lunch run for everyone so we can spend more time on the range.

Also, speaking of rounds down range, anyone have 45 factory loads that they'd like to unload?
I plan to bring an ice chest.

Quote:
Well, I'm not going to be there until Sunday, but how much are you looking for? Also, LAX is having a parking lot sale and will have WWB for $20/50 if you but 500.
I have some but couldn't sell em for that. that's a decent price. also walmarts around here have been pretty stocked.
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  #106  
Old 02-14-2014, 2:31 PM
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so the 9am start time is confirmed , right.
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  #107  
Old 02-14-2014, 7:49 PM
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Hey guys,

sorry for the late response!

Robert just landed and I got in touch with him.

Tomorrow's schedule is 9AM to 5PM.

See you all there!
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  #108  
Old 02-15-2014, 8:15 AM
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Looking forward to hear how class was today, and I'll see everyone tomorrow.
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  #109  
Old 02-16-2014, 4:37 PM
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Overall, interested in knowing how the class went.
  • Impressions on Bob's teaching style
  • Courses of instruction day 1 vs. day 2
  • Number of shooters each day
  • Number of rounds each day
  • Number of hours each day
  • Level of proficieny of the shooters
  • Anyone felt the class was too basic or too advanced
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  #110  
Old 02-16-2014, 5:30 PM
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Thanks everyone for coming out! You guys made this happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzar View Post
Overall, interested in knowing how the class went.
  • Impressions on Bob's teaching style
  • Courses of instruction day 1 vs. day 2
  • Number of shooters each day
  • Number of rounds each day
  • Number of hours each day
  • Level of proficieny of the shooters
  • Anyone felt the class was too basic or too advanced
Bob's teaching style is something along the lines of:

1) Explain and describe the topic at hand
2) Demonstrate how it works
3) Have you do it
4) Give you pointers on what you did right/wrong

I had just picked up my 1911 after being away from it for 3 months, but with Robert's instruction I was shooting it like I shot my Glock towards the end of day 2. Now if it wasn't for the malfunctions, the process could have moved along much quicker. For those that are interested, my magazine tubes were too short, and my feed ramp was too dirty. With EJ's Wilson Combat ETMs the problem went away. 1911s definitely require more maintenance and care.

Day 1 was a lot of basics, but with emphasis on how HE does it and why he does it the way he does. We went over stance, grip, conditioning (physical and skill), how to practice, strong hand shooting, weak hand shooting, reloading, setting your own pace, etc. We also went over his philosophy on certain things. For example, he emphasized the strength of your forearms and hands over the rest of your upper body, since it's called a "handgun", you should really focus on your hands.

By the end of day 1 I had either modified my techniques or completely adopted his techniques.

Day 2 was more stages/drills, so more technical shooting. It was basically putting everything together from day 1. Combining reloads, movement, shooting, etc. If you feel like your basic skills and techniques are as good as they are going to get, just come in on day 2 only. However, I think everyone can benefit from trying Robert's draw and grip techniques.

We had a couple people who didn't show up, but I believe we had 13/14 on both days. So almost near capacity.

I think day 1 had the most rounds down range. I missed a portion of it but I had shot about 300 by the end of day 1. Day 2 did not have as many rounds, since we did a lot of long stages/drills. Maybe 250~300?

We almost got the full 8 hours of instruction for each day. We started the day with ~1 hour of lecture. Then we hit the range. 30-45 minute break, then we get back to work. So I would say about 7 hours per day, roughly 5 hours of shooting.

Everyone shot pretty well, even an older gentleman who still held the gun with a weaver style grip on day 2. Basically, everyone was able to do what Robert asked us to do. I remember 1/3 or more of the class were IDPA Experts, few sharpshooters, a few had never classified BUT had attended other training courses and matches as well, and 1 A class shooter.

I personally felt the class was just right. My impressions were that everyone got something out of the class and had some homework to do. And even if Robert's methods didn't work out for them, they at least got the chance to try it out.

Some of my observations:

1) Make sure you have ammo that WORKS CONSISTENTLY. I saw quite a few ammo related malfunctions (primer seated too high, not enough crimp, etc.). Or if you're overworked like myself, order some ammo online.

2) Make sure your equipment has been tested thoroughly and maintained properly, in all situations imaginable.

If you're not shooting a Glock, bring a Glock . Just kidding, even some of the Glocks had malfunctions.

3) Bring a notebook and/or video camera

Last edited by Hank15; 02-16-2014 at 5:42 PM..
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  #111  
Old 02-16-2014, 5:34 PM
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Bob is a very good teacher. He points out early on is that we have to learn to teach ourselves. Day one was more basic drills , day two was more shooting while moving, Steel plates, and we set up a stage. I went thru About 500 each day. The student level was pretty mixed and the level of instruction was appropriate .
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  #112  
Old 02-16-2014, 5:53 PM
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Thanks Hank for the AAR including the omnipresent equipment malfunctions.
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  #113  
Old 02-16-2014, 9:13 PM
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I have some more photos a videos to post up, but until then, here is a collage to wet you appetite.

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  #114  
Old 02-17-2014, 10:47 AM
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Great class. Hanks post was spot on. This is what I would add:

It's a group setting but the way he sets up the drills gave a good balance of keeping the class moving while still giving individual attention. On the first day it was a lot of group work. We would all do the drill at the same time for 3 repetitions. Then he would go down the line to each person and time them and give us an individual critique.

My "this guy knows his ****" moment was when I had a malfunction during a drill. I cleared the type 1, ejected the live round and kept going. At the end he asked;

Bob:"what happened there?".
Me: "light strike"
Bob:"Didn't sound like a light strike"
(searches for round on the ground and finds it - shows it to me)
Bob:"no primer in that round"

His attention to detail is amazing.
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  #115  
Old 02-17-2014, 10:15 PM
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Great class, great instructor, great time! I was probably the most inexperienced pistol shooter in the class but I learned alot and had a great time. I was impressed with Bob's teaching style and how he seemed to cover every important point. Well worth my time and money. Great time with a great group of guys and one lady. Although this is not a beginner class it was still a great experience for me. Everyone in the class was helpful. Good times.. Good luck to all of you shooters! Great to meet you.

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  #116  
Old 02-18-2014, 5:32 AM
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^
Good point.

Was there anything he didn't cover that you guys might want him to cover in a future class?
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  #117  
Old 02-18-2014, 7:43 PM
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Any chance Bob's going to put on another class at Prado?
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  #118  
Old 02-21-2014, 10:10 PM
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I believe so, I think the calguns group gave him a good experience.
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