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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 06-25-2008, 2:25 PM
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Default Media and Heller

Just guessing, but I presume a win will be reported along the lines of "INDIVIDUAL RIGHT - 2nd AMENDMENT" on line one but "States May Regulate" just below. Or something more sinister on line two as in "Big City Mayors Prepare for Gun Violence Increase"?

Are we destined to have the media report any substantial shootings or increase in crime or violence as being caused by the Heller decision? We all know this isn't the case, espcially in the short term, but is the media likely to create cause & effect?
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Old 06-25-2008, 2:35 PM
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I'm sick of hearing DC's and any restrictive laws called "tough," as in being short for "tough on crime" when clearly as DC's case clearly has been that they make places a criminal Disney Land. I don't think they'll mention Heller if they get spanked. What they will mention is the '04 AWB sunset. I was reading one article where some toad was attacking TN's shall issue.
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Originally Posted by indiandave View Post
In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.

Last edited by yellowfin; 06-25-2008 at 2:37 PM..
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Old 06-25-2008, 2:50 PM
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I think you'll be surprised about how balanced the media is going to be on this. the polling shows media consumers believe its an individual right and I think the media are savvy enough on this to know they're beat.

-Gene
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Old 06-25-2008, 3:02 PM
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I think its going to be the exact opposite.... I think were going to hear hysterical outbursts from Rosie O Donnel and the usual suspects lamenting how extreme a decision it is.... How it will allow nuclear weapons in every crib, and blood will be running down the streets in rivers....Blah Blah Blah... and, of course, to vote for "change"...
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Old 06-25-2008, 3:32 PM
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We'll probably hear about those "activist judges" "legislating from the bench"!!! That drivel comes from both sides of the isle, whenever a descision doesn't go the way their side wants.
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Old 06-25-2008, 3:48 PM
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This morning on talk radio KFI in Los Angeles, Bill Handel interviewed Erwin Chemerinsky. Erwin Chemerinsky is very liberal and has been against Heller from the beginning. See his view here. In the conversation, Mr. Chemerinsky admitted that he expected the case to decide that the 2nd Amendment is an Individual Right. He expected Scalia to write the opinion.
Mr. Chemerinsky is a "noted" expert on constitutional law and has been against the individual rights 2nd Amendment. I guess after tomorrow morning, he may not be such an expert.
Tomorrow's interview will be interesting....
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Builder View Post
Mr. Chemerinsky is a "noted" expert on constitutional law and has been against the individual rights 2nd Amendment. I guess after tomorrow morning, he may not be such an expert.
Tomorrow's interview will be interesting....
I love watching applecarts tip over...

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Old 06-25-2008, 4:22 PM
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Well, once we have this decision out of the way it will be useful to start suing the likes of O' Donnell and her elected comrades for repeated defamation and libel for constantly comparing us to criminals, psychopaths, terrorists, etc. They're going to spout their drivel again and this time it needs to be cashed in on. I for one am sick of having gun owners, hunters, CCW'ers, OC'ers and many others being publicly villified and persecuted yet if I say anything close to that about certain races or religions or romantic preferences I would have a stadium full of lawyers trying to ruin my life in 10 minutes. Start making their lives hell and taking their money and using it against them.
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Originally Posted by indiandave View Post
In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.

Last edited by yellowfin; 06-25-2008 at 4:28 PM..
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by yellowfin2 View Post
Well, once we have this decision out of the way it will be useful to start suing the likes of O' Donnell and her elected comrades for repeated defamation and libel for constantly comparing us to criminals, psychopaths, terrorists, etc. Start taking their money from them that they use to harm us and turn it around on them.
Please tell me you're kidding?
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:30 PM
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Not in the slightest. We're about 20 years behind on it. She and the Bradys, LCAV, et al. should be living in a tent and unable to get service in any restaurant, hotel, or gas station.
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by yellowfin2 View Post
Not in the slightest. We're about 20 years behind on it. She and the Bradys, LCAV, et al. should be living in a tent.


You cant sue Rosie O Donnel for being a fat, stupid, gungrabbing, ****pig, any more than she can sue me for calling her a fat, stupid, gungrabbing, ****pig.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowfin2 View Post
She and the Bradys, LCAV, et al. should be living in a tent and unable to get service in any restaurant, hotel, or gas station.
No, they should be living in "ordinary people" housing, without any guns, without any bodyguards, in a rough area of Washington DC, or LA, or Chicago, or any other city that has some very rough areas. They should have to take the bus or walk. They should have cellphones which they can use to dial 911 whenever they need to. That's all.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I think you'll be surprised about how balanced the media is going to be on this. the polling shows media consumers believe its an individual right and I think the media are savvy enough on this to know they're beat.

-Gene
I think you're right.

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Originally Posted by RomanDad View Post
I think its going to be the exact opposite.... I think were going to hear hysterical outbursts from Rosie O Donnel and the usual suspects lamenting how extreme a decision it is.... How it will allow nuclear weapons in every crib, and blood will be running down the streets in rivers....Blah Blah Blah... and, of course, to vote for "change"...
You are right as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The whole forum
How can they both be right?!
(Thinking) ... You are also right.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:44 PM
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They are both right because the media, at least the part without a clear agenda, mostly local news, will do its best to remain neutral, but the attention whores like O'Donnel will still be acting a fool in front of the camera and the media outlets will feel obligated to air it just like they do for every other issue.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:44 PM
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i hope the brady crowd cries themselves to sleep if the decision goe towards an idividual right. i surely hope the media does report it that would be the best thing to do. i will check in here if i don't see it on the news while i'am work.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:47 PM
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If the court announces an individual right tomorrow, would it be wrong of me to go hunt down a Brady Bunch discussion board and send them a great, big electronic raspberry?

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Old 06-25-2008, 4:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanDad View Post


You cant sue Rosie O Donnel for being a fat, stupid, gungrabbing, ****pig, any more than she can sue me for calling her a fat, stupid, gungrabbing, ****pig.
You certainly can sue them for associating you with criminals, gangbangers, those lacking responsiblity and mental illness, etc. because that affects the way your employer, neighbors, family, and others treat you. It's indirect harassment and impediment of normal life. Lots of shops, particularly in CA can go after them for running them out of business by publicly stigmatizing them and aiding those who harassed or extorted them out of business. Discouraging people from defending their families and actively promoting policies toward such qualifies her and her kind as accessories to violent crime and makes them culpable in rape, robbery, and murder of unarmed law abiding citizens, so at very least that's responsibility for wrongful death--what they got O.J. Simpson on.
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Originally Posted by indiandave View Post
In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:48 PM
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Activist judges, "common sense" gun laws thoughout the nation in peril.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:48 PM
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Some in the media WILL blame George Bush and then tie it to McCain. Watch.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:50 PM
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^ He did put 2 judges on the court, so at least that has some foundation in fact.
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowfin2 View Post
You certainly can sue them for associating you with criminals, gangbangers, those lacking responsiblity and mental illness, etc. because that affects the way your employer, neighbors, family, and others treat you. It's indirect harassment and impediment of normal life. Lots of shops, particularly in CA can go after them for running them out of business by publicly stigmatizing them and aiding those who harassed or extorted them out of business. Discouraging people from defending their families and actively promoting policies toward such qualifies her and her kind as accessories to violent crime and makes them culpable in rape, robbery, and murder of unarmed law abiding citizens, so at very least that's responsibility for wrongful death--what they got O.J. Simpson on.
WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanDad View Post


You cant sue Rosie O Donnel for being a fat, stupid, gungrabbing, ****pig, any more than she can sue me for calling her a fat, stupid, gungrabbing, ****pig.
Someone needs to use that as a signature. That's just classic right there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulgron View Post
If the court announces an individual right tomorrow, would it be wrong of me to go hunt down a Brady Bunch discussion board and send them a great, big electronic raspberry?

No such thing exists. Brady isn't a grassroots deal like the NRA and RKBA in general side of the fight is.
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Old 06-25-2008, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CCWFacts View Post
No, they should be living in "ordinary people" housing, without any guns, without any bodyguards, in a rough area of Washington DC, or LA, or Chicago, or any other city that has some very rough areas. They should have to take the bus or walk. They should have cellphones which they can use to dial 911 whenever they need to. That's all.
I would LOVE to see that!
Other Residents: Rosie! That guy's breaking into the house! He's got a gun! He's shooting at everyone! He's an obviously violent criminal who illegally obtained a firearm through dubious ways.
Rosie: No problem! Call 911! That's what they're there for!
Other Residents: They put us on hold!
Rosie: Uhhh. <Dodges bullet> Try 912.
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Old 06-25-2008, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by M. Sage View Post
No such thing exists. Brady isn't a grassroots deal like the NRA and RKBA in general side of the fight is.
My expectation is that there will be more than one thread on this on Daily Kos tomorrow. There are some pro-gunners over there, but the anti's are quite loud and obnoxious, and therefore appear to be in the majority.

I think I'll wait for the right thread, and then wade in with my raspberry. It might finally get me banned from the site, but it sure will be worth it.

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Old 06-25-2008, 5:12 PM
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Originally Posted by KDOFisch View Post
Rosie: Uhhh. <Dodges bullet> Try 912.
you give her too much credit..I'd bet the poor bullet would dodge HER!!!
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Old 06-25-2008, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowfin2 View Post
You certainly can sue them for associating you with criminals, gangbangers, those lacking responsiblity and mental illness, etc. because that affects the way your employer, neighbors, family, and others treat you. It's indirect harassment and impediment of normal life. Lots of shops, particularly in CA can go after them for running them out of business by publicly stigmatizing them and aiding those who harassed or extorted them out of business. Discouraging people from defending their families and actively promoting policies toward such qualifies her and her kind as accessories to violent crime and makes them culpable in rape, robbery, and murder of unarmed law abiding citizens, so at very least that's responsibility for wrongful death--what they got O.J. Simpson on.
Sounds like one of those pro-se prison lawsuits where the judge goes before dismissing with prejudice.
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Old 06-25-2008, 6:22 PM
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I'd bet the poor bullet would dodge HER!!!
Frackin' classic.....although I think it'll bounce off her....
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Old 06-25-2008, 6:22 PM
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The only gun owners that won't be celebrating a good decision tomorrow are the criminals who already don't follow the Law.
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Old 06-25-2008, 6:26 PM
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http://pagenine.typepad.com/page_nin...aw-update.html

Quote:
Gun Law Update - The Heller Case


by Alan Korwin, Co-Author
Supreme Court Gun Cases
June 25, 2008


Chief Justice John Roberts announced less than an hour ago that the
Supreme Court would release its three remaining decisions tomorrow,
Thu., 6/26/08, beginning at 10 a.m., Eastern time.

This includes D.C. v. Heller, the Washington, D.C. gun-ban case that is
examining the meaning of the Second Amendment, and whether a complete
ban on any operable gun in a private home violates the constitutional
rights of individual citizens.

I plan to have a quick review of the highlights of the case within
three hours of its release. A more detailed review is planned before the
end of June.

Every news outlet on the planet is expected to cover the case in some
fashion. Typically, "news" reports on gun issues have errors, spin,
editorial mixed in with fact, and should be taken with at least a grain
of skepticism until detailed analysis is available. The decision could
be lengthy (perhaps 100 pages according to one knowledgeable party), and
will take a while to digest in its entirety.


The other two remaining cases are Davis v. FEC (campaign finance), and
American Electric Power (energy contracts).

The law firm of Akin Gump is predicting with a high degree of
confidence that Justice Scalia will be the author of the principle
opinion
in the Heller decision.


My firm Bloomfield Press is preparing a book on the Heller case, as a
supplement to "Supreme Court Gun Cases" by Kopel, Halbrook and Korwin,
released in 2003. It will contain extensive background, commentary by
numerous leading experts, summaries of all 96 gun-related cases that
have been heard by the High Court, and complete text of Heller with key
elements highlighted throughout. Advance orders will be taken when we
know what the page count will be, hopefully within 30 days of the
decision.


That's it for now.
See you tomorrow.
Alan Korwin.
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  #30  
Old 06-25-2008, 6:29 PM
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I am relishing a positive decision for us all, however, I think we should be cautiously optimistic until an official opinion comes out tomorrow. It ain't over till Rosie O'Donnell sings!!
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Old 06-25-2008, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RomanDad View Post
WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
In short, we should do to them what they've done to us, but 100x nastier and with the advantage of the fact that we actually have justification and basis in fact. Make the antis social outcasts and then treat them the same way as other unacceptable bigots such as racists, anti semites, etc. That's cost plenty of people plenty of money, lots of public shame, lost jobs, and certainly any laws based on the views currently held as societally unacceptable have no chance in hell of passing. I suggest we turn their own mechanism against them.
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In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
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Old 06-25-2008, 7:46 PM
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How about the next time a kid gets suspended/expelled for simply drawing a picture of a gun. I see a federal civil rights lawsuit against the school district for violation of 1st & 2nd amendments.
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Old 06-25-2008, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowfin2 View Post
In short, we should do to them what they've done to us, but 100x nastier and with the advantage of the fact that we actually have justification and basis in fact. Make the antis social outcasts and then treat them the same way as other unacceptable bigots such as racists, anti semites, etc. That's cost plenty of people plenty of money, lots of public shame, lost jobs, and certainly any laws based on the views currently held as societally unacceptable have no chance in hell of passing. I suggest we turn their own mechanism against them.

You mean like a civil rights movement?

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"We're out here demanding our right to defend ourselves from criminals and tyrants! Those politicians want to take our Constitutionally-guaranteed rights away from us, but we shall overcome!" etc etc.</soapbox>
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Old 06-25-2008, 8:25 PM
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Is this in any way an official wording of what is at stake? With this wording it sounds like any loss for DC is a slam dunk for those that want AW bans rescinded.

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This includes D.C. v. Heller, the Washington, D.C. gun-ban case that is examining the meaning of the Second Amendment, and whether a complete
ban on any operable gun in a private home violates the constitutional
rights of individual citizens.
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Old 06-25-2008, 8:33 PM
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Scotusblog is run by a lawfirm and has no real direct connection to SCOTUS.

-Gene
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  #36  
Old 06-25-2008, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Scotusblog is run by a lawfirm and has no real direct connection to SCOTUS.

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Not only that.... They represented DC in the case.
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Old 06-25-2008, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RomanDad View Post


You can't sue Rosie O Donnel for being a fat, stupid, gungrabbing, ****pig, any more than she can sue me for calling her a fat, stupid, gungrabbing, ****pig.
Well, that's because the truth is an absolute defense.
Actually I'd like to see her back on TV for one day with Tom Selleck as her guest.
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Old 06-25-2008, 9:02 PM
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I love watching applecarts tip over...

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LOL i got a kick out of that.
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  #39  
Old 06-26-2008, 3:56 AM
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Originally Posted by yellowfin2 View Post
You certainly can sue them for associating you with criminals, gangbangers, those lacking responsiblity and mental illness, etc.
Owning a firearm isn't the only thing that gets one associated with mental illness.
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Old 06-26-2008, 5:03 AM
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Originally Posted by yellowfin2 View Post
In short, we should do to them what they've done to us, but 100x nastier and with the advantage of the fact that we actually have justification and basis in fact. Make the antis social outcasts and then treat them the same way as other unacceptable bigots such as racists, anti semites, etc. That's cost plenty of people plenty of money, lots of public shame, lost jobs, and certainly any laws based on the views currently held as societally unacceptable have no chance in hell of passing. I suggest we turn their own mechanism against them.
You need to take some law classes friend...
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I would love to have a hole cut in the ceiling so I could pop out and BAM! Hit 'em with my spice weasel...
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