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  #1  
Old 12-15-2013, 8:47 PM
problemchild problemchild is offline
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Default 1 yr of testing EVERY copy of Linix and the best one is....

Mint Petra 16 cinnamon <------ Everything works and I dont have any lock ups and didnt need to fix anything either. Awesome GUI!

The Linux fanboys WILL have another ranting opinion but I actually installed and ran every copy of linux and I say this one is the best for my usage needs. Others will have different needs. It is a great running OS and needs notyhing from the getgo. I did turn on the firewall and change the desktop. All hardware is working correctly and no crashes or freezing.
You can "Try" the OS by downloading the live iso and burning to a cd/dvd/usb and runnning it by booting to it.



Download a LIVE DVD here-----> http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

Burn the live ISO to a DVD or USB drive and run it. Do not install! You want to "try" the OS and see how you like it. It will run slow as its running from the CD or usb.

New features........... http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_petra_c...n_whatsnew.php

Small review.... http://mylinuxexplore.blogspot.com/2...-and-mate.html

Different flavors..........

  • Cinnamon
  • MATE
  • KDE
  • Xfce


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Last edited by problemchild; 12-16-2013 at 7:38 AM..
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2013, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
The Linux fanboys WILL have another opinion but I actually installed and ran every copy of linux and I say this one is the best for my usage needs. Others will have different needs.

Mint Petra 16, (cinnamon and kde) <------ Everything works and I dont have any locks ups and didnt need to fix anything either. Awesome GUI!
Since there are over 1k different versions, how long did that take you to do?

Well, I believe anyways ther are well over 1k distros based on the 300+ list at distro watch and then then like 600+ WAITING to get evaluated, and then the remaining loose ends out there that did not get to distrowatch yet... :\

Where is yer link to the winner of the shootout?
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:58 PM
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I tend to gravitate toward Fedora and have been with Redhat since version 7 although Mint seems pretty solid. For embedded stuff I've been playing with ångström.

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Old 12-16-2013, 7:22 AM
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Ahh a fanboy chimes in. Here in lies the problem with Linux. Instead of focusing the coding power to 3-4 top running versions you have the fanboys fighting over "1000+" (fanboy ranting) 16+ (real number) group versions and No One version can ever be agreed upon. Just plain --->stupid!!!

The above nonsense was the thing that kept me from switching to linux for over 10 years. The fanboys fight amongst themselves disagreeing on everything. Its near impossible to find a good review of any linux version because the fanboyz will always bash whatever you post in a positive light as witnessed in the above post. You can never have a good opinion about any linux version without getting flamed.

In reality you actually have the following 16+ " group based" linux versions to choose from. I installed and ran the best/top 2-3 from each group. No point installing every single copy of each group when some are not even maintained anymore and run like chit.

Arch Linux based

Debian-based

Knoppix-based

Ubuntu-based


Other Debian-based


Gentoo-basedMandriva-based

openSUSE-based

Red Hat Linux

Fedora-based

Slackware-based

Other (Linux-based)

Mac OS X-based

Microsoft Windows-based

OpenSolaris-based

Other operating systems-based


Quote:
Originally Posted by stilly View Post
Since there are over 1k different versions, how long did that take you to do?

Well, I believe anyways ther are well over 1k distros based on the 300+ list at distro watch and then then like 600+ WAITING to get evaluated, and then the remaining loose ends out there that did not get to distrowatch yet... :\

Where is yer link to the winner of the shootout?
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Old 12-16-2013, 7:39 AM
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I tried all the Linux distributions and I still use Mac OS X if I need *nix with a "window manager".

Otherwise, I just use Centos for servers.
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Old 12-16-2013, 9:45 AM
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I'm a fan of mint. I'm not on cinnamon though. I went to mint after the Ubuntu version I was running got all hosed up. I didn't like the GUI on Ubuntu either.
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Old 12-16-2013, 9:52 AM
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I tried Ubuntu based on the recommendation of a friend.

I did not find it to be "blazing fast" nor "super-intuitive" and I am a computer user (Windows) and technical professional with 2 decades of experience.

In my opinion it was not "ready for prime time".

The most basic function of an OS is to recognize all the hardware and make it work efficiently together, followed closely by allowing the user to get productive work done instead of constant fiddling with settings or having to research how to get the most basic things done. I was spending way too much time looking up how to load tar files or find drivers. If the OS doesn't do those things itself, it's not truly production-ready IMHO.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
I tried Ubuntu based on the recommendation of a friend.

I did not find it to be "blazing fast" nor "super-intuitive" and I am a computer user (Windows) and technical professional with 2 decades of experience.

In my opinion it was not "ready for prime time".

The most basic function of an OS is to recognize all the hardware and make it work efficiently together, followed closely by allowing the user to get productive work done instead of constant fiddling with settings or having to research how to get the most basic things done. I was spending way too much time looking up how to load tar files or find drivers. If the OS doesn't do those things itself, it's not truly production-ready IMHO.
technical professional? What is that? I am a decade and a half in on information services experience. Linux works just fine for standard hardware. I take it you have not done a lot with windows except out of the box from a retailer. In my time, recently in fact, I have had to battle with horrific wi-fi device drivers that just don't work or misbehave or require me to go on an internet hunt to make operational brand new "generic" hardware on windows 7.

As with linux the most common problems are with non-standard wireless devices in windows and trust me, windows is just as bad when it comes to these inexpensive and strange animals. Anything non-WHQL is a crap shoot on windows as to how well it will work.

Try getting an older creative labs sound card to operate under windows 7. In linux it is plug in play, under windows it is a nightmare of epic proportions.

From anything your commentary is more: I know windows, why should I have to re-learn a "new" os. If you don't want to learn new things, stick with windows.. oh wait windows 8 is an all new nightmare. Still new things suck.

Linux is not only production environment ready, it has been used in production environments for more than a decade. Prior to that it was Unix in said production environments.

Though I will say, Windows Server has a lot to recommend itself.

As with anything technology related or tool related. Use the right tool for the job and stop trying to use a spanner wrench as a hammer or a smart phone as a domain controller.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:00 AM
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I still run Slackware if it is a machine that is just for storage (NAS-ish), no GUI needed to be running. Slackware is the most stable distro that I have ever used, running months w/out a reboot as a storage server, ssh server, and a few other things.

Pear is still my choice 8, in the 64bit variety still testing, but was able to support 1800 Windows users on Pear 7x64 BETA for 6 months...
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:55 PM
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Glad you like it.

I generally run Ubuntu (using it now), but there is room for everyone.
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Old 12-16-2013, 1:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
I tried Ubuntu based on the recommendation of a friend.

I did not find it to be "blazing fast" nor "super-intuitive" and I am a computer user (Windows) and technical professional with 2 decades of experience.

In my opinion it was not "ready for prime time".
That's how I felt about Linux 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago. Good to hear it is better, but sad to hear it isn't there yet. I think Windows 8 isn't ready for prime time either.
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Old 12-16-2013, 1:21 PM
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I pray to God every day that Linux remains non "super-intuitive".
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Old 12-16-2013, 2:32 PM
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Hard to tell what someone's idea of prime time is, but I've been using Fedora 20 beta and I like it. You of course need to install certain libraries and such to gain full functionality but that is easy. These are either "non-free"or "dirty"and can't legally be included in the distribution.
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Old 12-16-2013, 2:53 PM
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meaty-btz said:
Quote:
technical professional? What is that? I am a decade and a half in on information services experience. Linux works just fine for standard hardware. I take it you have not done a lot with windows except out of the box from a retailer.
Microsoft Certified Professional since 2003, ten years SQL Server DBA, experience with relational databases going back to dBase III (1987), DOS for crying out loud, and cut my programming teeth on an Apple II which predated any kind of disk storage system (we used audio cassette tapes) in the late '70's. So that answers your question as to what kind of technical professional I am. I'm not some desktop support chimp with a superiority complex or someone who spends all their time fiddling with experimental setups. I'm someone who relies on computers to enable me to get serious work done on a daily basis.

If you like Linux, good for you. People who have spent a lifetime developing solid computer work skills will not go back and totally re-engineer the way they work because someone thinks a new way is "better". This is why Dvorak keyboards don't sell. It's as if you took someone who had been driving for 20 years, and ask them to try out a new car you designed... and get all offended when they look at you like you're crazy... "you want me to use a joystick to steer, or foot pedals, instead of a steering wheel? Oh, and the rear wheels steer instead of the front? And the driver sits in the back seat, watching the road through a periscope? Sorry, I'm gonna pass." Any product that does not leverage an existing base of user skills is not going to flourish in the market.

I would like to switch over to Linux because I think it COULD someday deliver on the promise of a better system. But in my opinion, based on what I have experienced, is that it requires too big of a change in work processes for the average computer user to find it worthwhile. Ubuntu was not as it was hyped to me, that is my experience, and your superior attitude does not change my experience. It simply appears to be not ready yet for the mainstream market.

Now you can get all upset about someone saying the emperor isn't wearing any clothes while you insist they're some mighty cool threads.... or you can acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of user experience issues to be addressed before it will be considered a viable alternative for the workplace by the mainstream who have real jobs and serious work to get done, and who can't afford to spend half the day tinkering to figure out how to get something done on a funky system that plays by it's own rules.
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Old 12-16-2013, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meaty-btz View Post
technical professional? What is that? I am a decade and a half in on information services experience. Linux works just fine for standard hardware. I take it you have not done a lot with windows except out of the box from a retailer. In my time, recently in fact, I have had to battle with horrific wi-fi device drivers that just don't work or misbehave or require me to go on an internet hunt to make operational brand new "generic" hardware on windows 7.

As with linux the most common problems are with non-standard wireless devices in windows and trust me, windows is just as bad when it comes to these inexpensive and strange animals. Anything non-WHQL is a crap shoot on windows as to how well it will work.

Try getting an older creative labs sound card to operate under windows 7. In linux it is plug in play, under windows it is a nightmare of epic proportions.

From anything your commentary is more: I know windows, why should I have to re-learn a "new" os. If you don't want to learn new things, stick with windows.. oh wait windows 8 is an all new nightmare. Still new things suck.

Linux is not only production environment ready, it has been used in production environments for more than a decade. Prior to that it was Unix in said production environments.

Though I will say, Windows Server has a lot to recommend itself.

As with anything technology related or tool related. Use the right tool for the job and stop trying to use a spanner wrench as a hammer or a smart phone as a domain controller.

That's the exact same vibe I got. They will one day learn the ways!!!
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Old 12-16-2013, 3:04 PM
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That's the exact same vibe I got. They will one day learn the ways!!!
To be fair my introduction to linux was through Unix use since the 80s. I used it first for fun and later at school then I did linux and BSD for fun. So I got the learning curve out of the way young.

For generation of people whose concept of computing is Windows or Mac, Linux is indeed a different animal. It does ask you to THINK. It does not pad you from your own iniquities and foolish actions.

In the end it becomes part of your existence and you find yourself involved in development and you have your own GiT channel and are working towards having your own repository.

I know a freelance artist that went open source and then to linux and found the tools needed work. Before he knew it he was deeply involved in art tool development. He was now an artist, a scripter, a tester, and a programmer (in a limited sense). Dev teams came to him to test their builds and ask for feed back and ideas.

So in the end linux grows on you in that sort of way. If you want your life spoon fed to you by someone else, stick with Windows and Mac, the "Modern America" model of life.
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Old 12-16-2013, 3:22 PM
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I was just subjecting you to Pointy Stick 1.0
Well said by the way. I am not some desktop support chimp either. The largest problem I have with Ubuntu is that they do advertise it as a desktop "prime-time" distribution for the "uninformed". Which of course, isn't true. I want to smack everyone in the face who says that Linux is a "good desktop for the general public". It isn't, and probably never will be.

Linux is a specific tool for certain needs. Asking it to do more than that is entering into some interesting territory. You can go there but it is for the developer types and hobby types.

I find it interesting you mention ten years of SQL experience, then you should be well versed in Unix and by measures linux considering most SQL Databases of any size were (and some still are) run on Unix almost exclusively a decade ago. Windows Server didn't support what as needed for heavy lifting until quite recently. Being a database jockey you should know that and I am surprised at the lack of unix or BSD experience in that regard.

Before I entered the IS world I cut my teeth on systems engineering. The real stuff not what it means today (systems engineers today are mostly server farm jockeys). I was designing compact PCI and Passive Backplain industrial computers, writing BIOS's. Compact PCI systems were the grand-daddies of today's Blade systems for those who've never seen one.

I remember the day the Windows Hardware Quality Lab came into existence because we now had one more step to do before our hardware drivers and thusly, new product, could be shipped. Getting that little sticker was important in the days when PCI devices didn't play nice together and we had to do extensive testing and try to manage the reflection wave problem by tuning trace length. We have come a long way since those days.

You say you need something that just works, windows really doesn't meat that specification. Thousands of hours spent trying to make MS SQL Server work correctly, get clustering correct, beating on exchange server because it buggered up again, not to mention what special kind of hell one starts to see when supporting 3-5K desktops running windows 7. It goes from a great OS to a nightmare very quickly as the failure points become glaringly evident.


The point with linux is that is a constantly moving target. It will never be complete. That isn't its real purpose. A good deal of Windows 7 kernel and understanding came through Linux forging the way ahead. It will forever be the "eternal Beta" software. The place where new things are tried and new ideas cut their teeth. It can be used in a limited sense for the low power desktop user (word processing and web browsing). It can be used for art. It can be used as an inexpensive server (but windows server will be better in most business environments). It is the last "thinking mans" OS. The OS equivalent to the Hot-Rod that gets wrenched on every weekend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
meaty-btz said:


Microsoft Certified Professional since 2003, ten years SQL Server DBA, experience with relational databases going back to dBase III (1987), DOS for crying out loud, and cut my programming teeth on an Apple II which predated any kind of disk storage system (we used audio cassette tapes) in the late '70's. So that answers your question as to what kind of technical professional I am. I'm not some desktop support chimp with a superiority complex or someone who spends all their time fiddling with experimental setups. I'm someone who relies on computers to enable me to get serious work done on a daily basis.

If you like Linux, good for you. People who have spent a lifetime developing solid computer work skills will not go back and totally re-engineer the way they work because someone thinks a new way is "better". This is why Dvorak keyboards don't sell. It's as if you took someone who had been driving for 20 years, and ask them to try out a new car you designed... and get all offended when they look at you like you're crazy... "you want me to use a joystick to steer, or foot pedals, instead of a steering wheel? Oh, and the rear wheels steer instead of the front? And the driver sits in the back seat, watching the road through a periscope? Sorry, I'm gonna pass." Any product that does not leverage an existing base of user skills is not going to flourish in the market.

I would like to switch over to Linux because I think it COULD someday deliver on the promise of a better system. But in my opinion, based on what I have experienced, is that it requires too big of a change in work processes for the average computer user to find it worthwhile. Ubuntu was not as it was hyped to me, that is my experience, and your superior attitude does not change my experience. It simply appears to be not ready yet for the mainstream market.

Now you can get all upset about someone saying the emperor isn't wearing any clothes while you insist they're some mighty cool threads.... or you can acknowledge the fact that there are a lot of user experience issues to be addressed before it will be considered a viable alternative for the workplace by the mainstream who have real jobs and serious work to get done, and who can't afford to spend half the day tinkering to figure out how to get something done on a funky system that plays by it's own rules.
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Last edited by meaty-btz; 12-16-2013 at 3:29 PM..
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Old 12-16-2013, 3:51 PM
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Actually I do understand where you are coming from and I acknowledege that Unix/Linux has a lot going for it under the hood.

Where I work we use exclusively Windows PC's and that has been the case at every organization I have worked at since leaving Sears Corporate HQ (where they were married to IBM and used OS2). That was in the mid 90's. That said, we have a lot of Oracle databases and they all operate off a Unix platform. I don't know much about that side of things because ever since I started with SQL Server (v6.5) it has operated off a Windows Server platform. SQL shared a common code base with Sybase until the v6.0 split. Maybe they compiled Sybase to run on Unix/Linux?

Anyway, it's my observation that Windows dominates the corporate work world and I'll offer my opinion as to why that is.

It is the same reason that the AR-15 dominates the semi-auto rifle scene. Is it the best? Not really. There are other designs that are just as good. It has been tweaked and tuned and improved over the years and still there are a lot of other guns with vastly different design features which are arguably better in some ways (or in many ways depending on one's point of view). And yet it continues to dominate. Why? Again, because it capitalizes on a base of 50 years worth of ingrained user skills. Guys who picked one up for the first time at the age of 18 in 1963 who are now drawing social security. And their children. And now grandchildren... who have all grown up and in many cases grown old with the same manual of arms. That collective experience and the standardization of 50 years worth of refinement, tweaking, customization.

Frankly, I hate Microsoft in a lot of ways and I love the open source concept and believe it is the future. And it frustrates me that the "future" is taking longer than I hoped to get here! But one thing Microsoft does fairly well is support the users and try to make transitions as easy as possible. It's in this regard that I think they F'd up big time with Windows 8. They really "New Coke"d themselves on that one IMHO. Notice the quick back-pedal to patch it to provide a Win7 operator mode.

The question that a business operator asks when considering a transition to a new system is "how much down time am I going to have re-training each and every one of my employees to use the new system, and then how much productivity is going to be lost over the next year or two while we waste time figuring out how to do things that were second nature on the previous system?" If the answer to that question is "too much" then the new product gets sidelined in favor of the tried and true. As a result a lot of businesses find their tech becomming obsolete before the make/break equation becomes strong enough to warrant risking that kind of gouge to the bottom line. I see it all the time and my current employer is no exception.

Anyway, I am a great believer in *nix in principle... and I am hoping to get there eventually when I can afford the time away from earning a living every day and having a life on the side to be able to play with it enough to really get to know the ropes. Right now, when I am busy trying to earn a living and keep up on family and social obligations, it frankly seems like too much work for too little gain. Hoping that will eventually change. I will check on it again in a few years.
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Old 12-16-2013, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by problemchild View Post
Ahh a fanboy chimes in. Here in lies the problem with Linux. Instead of focusing the coding power to 3-4 top running versions you have the fanboys fighting over "1000+" (fanboy ranting) 16+ (real number) group versions and No One version can ever be agreed upon. Just plain --->stupid!!!

The above nonsense was the thing that kept me from switching to linux for over 10 years. The fanboys fight amongst themselves disagreeing on everything. Its near impossible to find a good review of any linux version because the fanboyz will always bash whatever you post in a positive light as witnessed in the above post. You can never have a good opinion about any linux version without getting flamed.

In reality you actually have the following 16+ " group based" linux versions to choose from. I installed and ran the best/top 2-3 from each group. No point installing every single copy of each group when some are not even maintained anymore and run like chit.

Arch Linux based

Debian-based

Knoppix-based

Ubuntu-based


Other Debian-based


Gentoo-basedMandriva-based

openSUSE-based

Red Hat Linux

Fedora-based

Slackware-based

Other (Linux-based)

Mac OS X-based

Microsoft Windows-based

OpenSolaris-based

Other operating systems-based
Linux fanboy my *** goddammit.
You worded your title like there were a LOT of them and you finally tried them all out. :\

I am new to Linux myself but when I go to distrowatch and see this: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20131216

Then scroll part way down and see this quote:
"DistroWatch database summary

•Number of all distributions in the database: 766

•Number of active distributions in the database: 296

•Number of dormant distributions: 54

•Number of discontinued distributions: 416

•Number of distributions on the waiting list: 338"

I am sure you can see where a noob such as myself would easily see that there are over 1000+ variations based on these numbers. AND this is not counting the various desktops that you can also use. So if a distro has 5 desktops does it make it 5 versions now? Perhaps you should have stated your control and what constitutes a "version" and how different desktops play into it. I like to load them all up too but I am only on 177 and that damn site keeps changing the list on me so it is hard to grab them and stay current...

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Old 12-28-2013, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bruss01 View Post
Actually I do understand where you are coming from and I acknowledege that Unix/Linux has a lot going for it under the hood.

Where I work we use exclusively Windows PC's and that has been the case at every organization I have worked at since leaving Sears Corporate HQ (where they were married to IBM and used OS2). That was in the mid 90's. That said, we have a lot of Oracle databases and they all operate off a Unix platform. I don't know much about that side of things because ever since I started with SQL Server (v6.5) it has operated off a Windows Server platform. SQL shared a common code base with Sybase until the v6.0 split. Maybe they compiled Sybase to run on Unix/Linux?

Anyway, it's my observation that Windows dominates the corporate work world and I'll offer my opinion as to why that is.
I sold Unix systems into the civilian government space for 15 years (mostly NASA). The only thing that Windows dominated was the desktop and for scientists and engineers, Sun, Mac and now Linux were greatly preferred for their desktops. All the high end stuff (satellite tracking ground systems, navigation, simulation, CAD/CAM and even financials) were/are on Unix and more recently Linux.

No offense, but when you talk about Unix like it's some kind of experiment that hasn't proven itself yet, it sounds like you only acknowledge what you are familiar with. To this day, the most mission critical systems in the country across a broad range of industries are on Unix. Those that I have seen move off have mostly transitioned to Linux.
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Old 12-28-2013, 1:05 PM
rjpsb1 rjpsb1 is offline
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UNIX and UNIX workalikes (linux, bsd) run the internet. Anyone that suggests any flavor of windows for a server immediately lands in the bucket labeled 'amateur'; if this is you, please remove yourself from the critical path before something bad happens.

If you don't like it on the desktop, don't use it. OS X is a fine UNIX and is pretty to look at for the desktop. For those not interested in using linux or OS X on the desktop, good news for you: Android is coming to replace your windows soon. Rejoice!
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