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Old 11-14-2013, 3:52 AM
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Default Tac-con 3MR trigger - multi-burst trigger activator?

So, a new company called Tac-con has popped up, advertising a $495 AR-15 trigger which apparently allows extremely rapid firing mode.



It looks like it ties in with the safety to add a third "rapid-fire" mode switch. Realizing that the information is thin at this point, does that look like a multi-burst trigger activator as defined under CA law?
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Old 11-14-2013, 5:27 AM
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Short answer: Go directly to prison.

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Old 11-14-2013, 7:45 AM
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Yes it look to be a TA illegal in the PRK but legal in free States. Oh and this needs to go to a different forum.
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Old 11-14-2013, 8:07 AM
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what are you basing your assessment on? I don't see anything about how the trigger functions
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Old 11-14-2013, 8:13 AM
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Penal Code 16930
As used in this part, a "multiburst trigger activator" means either of the following:
(a) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm, which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(b) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm.

Penal Code 32900
Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any multiburst trigger activator is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.
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Last edited by Quiet; 11-14-2013 at 4:17 PM..
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Old 11-14-2013, 8:21 AM
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I fail to see how this would be illegal not knowing how the trigger functions.
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Old 11-14-2013, 8:29 AM
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Default Do you want to be the test case?

It can be argued that this device is not prohibited because it does not meet the Kalifornia definition of a multi-burst trigger device.

It is very likely that you will be arrested and prosecuted if you have this device. It will be interesting to watch the case and appeals unfold. I cannot afford the risk.
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Old 11-14-2013, 8:49 AM
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Ummm... I'll pass.
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Old 11-14-2013, 8:52 AM
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I cannot afford the gigantic and unquestionable risk.
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Old 11-14-2013, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Forewarned View Post
I fail to see how this would be illegal not knowing how the trigger functions.
Then fail you shall, as the video is pretty good indication of what's going on.

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Old 11-14-2013, 9:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Then fail you shall, as the video is pretty good indication of what's going on.

A.W.D.
Actually, I'm not quite clear on what's going on. To me it looks like a mode with super-light trigger weight and extra-powerful reset, like Geissele SD-3G on steroids.
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Old 11-14-2013, 9:34 AM
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Old 11-14-2013, 9:54 AM
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from their website
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Old 11-14-2013, 9:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Chatterbox View Post
Actually, I'm not quite clear on what's going on. To me it looks like a mode with super-light trigger weight and extra-powerful reset, like Geissele SD-3G on steroids.
You may be on to something; however, mechanics aside, these won't fly in CA.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/627...=bottom#bottom

I stand by my comment, that prison is immediately following for use in CA.

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Old 11-14-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Chatterbox View Post
Actually, I'm not quite clear on what's going on. To me it looks like a mode with super-light trigger weight and extra-powerful reset, like Geissele SD-3G on steroids.
This...

The 3rd safety selector position is the real killer though.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:27 AM
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This...

The 3rd safety selector position is the real killer though.
That's the only thing i saw as being a real problem.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:55 AM
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At first I was optimistic about this being legal, but after some thought it really isn't too different from what the slidefire tries to accomplish except this is a better execution of it. Could be legal in other states but not for us. I'd love to try one out of state just to confirm it works like how I suspect it works.
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:56 AM
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If the slide stock is a problem being that it is not even a trigger modification, then this without a doubt would be a problem.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:27 AM
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So, to bring up my earlier comparison, wouldn't SD-3G also be potentially a "multi-burst trigger activator"? Cops see you on the range rapid-firing, slap the handcuffs on you, DA decides - "Hey, we got ourselves a machine gunner right here!" and presto - you're in the clink for a couple of years.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:28 AM
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^^^ This.

Another fun thing for Free-America, but not here behind enemy lines.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatterbox View Post
So, to bring up my earlier comparison, wouldn't SD-3G also be potentially a "multi-burst trigger activator"? Cops see you on the range rapid-firing, slap the handcuffs on you, DA decides - "Hey, we got ourselves a machine gunner right here!" and presto - you're in the clink for a couple of years.
Possibly, but this trigger seems to have additional mechanism(s) that promote burst fire. The most I've seen from S3G/SD3Gs are unintentional doubles.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:01 PM
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If its cool and fun, then it is banned in Commiefornia.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:09 PM
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Would be fun!
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Old 11-14-2013, 1:21 PM
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Would it be illegal in CA to just possess the parts to have on hand in case of long term SHTF or civil war?
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Old 11-14-2013, 1:48 PM
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I stand by my comment, that prison is immediately following for use possession in CA.

A.W.D.

Fixed.
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Old 11-14-2013, 2:00 PM
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I forgot, which CA statute makes the SlideFire illegal to possess?
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Old 11-14-2013, 2:04 PM
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Originally Posted by IPSICK View Post
I forgot, which CA statute makes the SlideFire illegal to possess?
See post #5
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Old 11-14-2013, 2:17 PM
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What if you purchased a new rifle that had been assembled when it was first built with this type of trigger? The rate of fire never having been increased as it always fired that fast. Everything else satisfies the scary looking weapons ban.
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Old 11-14-2013, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Penal Code 16930
As used in this part, a "multiburst trigger activator" means either of the following:
(a) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a semiautomatic firearm, which allows the firearm to discharge two or more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(b) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it increases the rate of fire of that firearm.
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What if you purchased a new rifle that had been assembled when it was first built with this type of trigger? The rate of fire never having been increased as it always fired that fast. Everything else satisfies the scary looking weapons ban.
It kinda seems like since this unit IS the trigger group itself, and it still only fires one round per trigger pull that it wouldn't meet the definition of either section (a) or (b). Since it's the trigger group itself the only thing activating the trigger is your finger so how would it be any different than pulling the trigger on a regular semi-auto as fast as you can? I'm sure if you practice and had a light weight regular trigger you could pull it multiple times pretty damn fast.

When section (b) says "increases the rate of fire of that firearm". Increased based on what? Who/what determines the "standard rate of fire" that in "increased rate of fire' would be compared to?
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Old 11-14-2013, 2:43 PM
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See post #5
Oops, my bad!
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Old 11-14-2013, 3:16 PM
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I think a comparable logic in the defense of this product is knives. automatic blades, ones that you push a button to spring open are illegal. meanhile spring-assisted knives, ones which require you to physically push the blade open to a certain point are legal.

i can only imagine that IF the trigger is fully reset and disconnected after each pull, how is this not semi auto? what defines increased rate of fire if there is no baseline? last time i checked there is no law that defines rate of fire.

also, a "trigger activating device" implies an extra/separate device besides the trigger assembly that activatesand increases the rate of fire.

your finger is the only thing activating the trigger assembly. you are not using your finger or any other method to activate something else, which in turn activates the trigger.


if anything, these guys got it right, they did not create a products that manipulates the trigger assembly, they created a very sensitive and timed trigger.
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Old 11-14-2013, 3:27 PM
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I think a comparable logic in the defense of this product is knives. automatic blades, ones that you push a button to spring open are illegal. meanhile spring-assisted knives, ones which require you to physically push the blade open to a certain point are legal.

i can only imagine that IF the trigger is fully reset and disconnected after each pull, how is this not semi auto? what defines increased rate of fire if there is no baseline? last time i checked there is no law that defines rate of fire.

also, a "trigger activating device" implies an extra/separate device besides the trigger assembly that activatesand increases the rate of fire.

your finger is the only thing activating the trigger assembly. you are not using your finger or any other method to activate something else, which in turn activates the trigger.
Yep...that's my thinking. So if the gun came with a trigger that only fired at the rate of "increased rate of fire" of this device, but still only fired one round per trigger pull....that would be legal would it not?

So what they need to say is: "This device does not INCREASE the rate of fire...it just has a setting that allows one to DECREASE the rate of fire if they choose." There....problem solved.

But I fail to see how having the option to switch between 2 semi-auto "rates of fire" changes anything? They're both still semi-auto. It seems all it's really doing is switching the trigger to a setting that has a lighter, shorter trigger pull.

So can I get mine with a ambi-selector switch?
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Old 11-14-2013, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Untamed1972 View Post
When section (b) says "increases the rate of fire of that firearm". Increased based on what? Who/what determines the "standard rate of fire" that in "increased rate of fire' would be compared to?
Determination is based on the point of view of the 58 DA's Offices and the CA DOJ.

So, it will vary depending on who is making decision. Which will come after a person is arrested, jailed & property confiscated for violating this statue.

In addition...
Because of the usage of the third position on the selector, it may cause LEOs to think the firearm is a MG and arrest/jail/confiscate based on that point of view.
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Old 11-14-2013, 4:16 PM
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Determination is based on the point of view of the 58 DA's Offices and the CA DOJ.

So, it will vary depending on who is making decision. Which will come after a person is arrested, jailed & property confiscated for violating this statue.

In addition...
Because of the usage of the third position on the selector, it may cause LEOs to think the firearm is a MG and arrest/jail/confiscate based on that point of view.
We need a test case. Volunteers?!?
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Old 11-14-2013, 4:25 PM
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wow i wonder if its like an idea i had a while ago

about taking the safety and adding a little nub to hold the disconnector down just enough so that when you fire then relese the trigger it will fire again

i never followed throught since the 2 modes would be fire and unsafe
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Old 11-14-2013, 4:41 PM
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Short answer: Go directly to prison.

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Short answer: Looks cool. "Cool" is illegal in California.
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Old 11-14-2013, 6:33 PM
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We need a test case. Volunteers?!?
Exactly.

I can see arguments for and against legality of this item.

The catch is getting 50+ DA's to side with your viewpoint.
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Old 11-14-2013, 7:02 PM
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Exactly.

I can see arguments for and against legality of this item.

The catch is getting 50+ DA's to side with your viewpoint.
No, you just need one judge or one jury to establish case law.
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"Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm X
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  #39  
Old 11-14-2013, 7:22 PM
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Tincon Tincon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IPSICK View Post
No, you just need one judge or one jury to establish case law.
Juries cannot establish case law, and you would need at least two judges. Basically, not something the average person could bankroll.
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  #40  
Old 11-14-2013, 7:41 PM
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I'll be able to buy all this cool stuff after I leave this CA hellhole.
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