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  #1  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:49 PM
Glocker23 Glocker23 is offline
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Default Bushnell and Primary Arms Optics Identical?

They looks extremely similar so I was wondering if they were the same.
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:52 PM
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Not even close...

Seriously?????????????????????????????
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2013, 6:57 PM
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NC star makes this thing that looks like an ACOG......

It looks like an ACOG so it's as good as an ACOG right?

Save about $350 with the NC Star... How can you go wrong?

Bushnell is making really high quality products with features and price points that make them a real bargain for what you get.

There are better, but they cost over double what the bushnells cost. Vortex makes some direct competitors for bushnell at similar price points as well.
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2013, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocker23 View Post
They looks extremely similar so I was wondering if they were the same.
this is what you want, imo ****s all over the TRS25
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...1-10bundle.htm
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2013, 9:03 PM
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I guess maybe if the op was looking at cheap red dots.... maybe....

As to scopes, I've never seen a review of anyone I trust going over a primary arms.

However I do have this report from a 3rd party who tests scopes... and here is a review of a bushnell 3.5-21 G2DMR....

Note the image doesnt show the full report, but it clearly ends with "this is one of the best scopes I've....." Also note the "smiley face that each click value is supposed to be 1/10 actually measures .101.... Obviously the tester was impressed with this scope.....


So.... Anyone that thinks bushnell and primary are the same quality.... I'd say let Dimitri have one of his scopes evaluated by the same company and lets compare..... Otherwise, I think bushnell is top notch at a very attractive price. Note this test was a 3.5-21 G2DMR which retails about $1,300... if you want something better, get ready to spend at least twice as much... And even still.. it might not test as good......

So... Dimitri.... care to send in one of your 'tactical scopes' for eval and post the report? I'm very curious about them... as I only hear reviews of novices.... no one I know or trust has played with one- this would be a good test for quality that would convince me of your products.

Full article here-http://www.caprc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4666


Last edited by postal; 10-19-2013 at 9:12 PM..
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2013, 9:05 PM
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Do you mean these two:
Primary Arms Micro Dot
and
Bushnell Trophy TRS-25

The rumor is that they are made at the same factory with minor differences.
I've seen this discussed several times in the past year on multiple forums and I believe even confirmed once.

It's like the Primary Arms 1-4x24 scope and the Millet 1-4x24 DMS, same scope, different reticules and branding.
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2013, 9:09 PM
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To be more specific:

How does a Bushnell TR-25 compare vs Primary Arms?

Postal LOVES Bushell.. I think??

Last edited by Glocker23; 10-19-2013 at 9:11 PM..
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2013, 9:10 PM
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Thanks Kestryll.

I have one of each. The Primary Arms and the Bushnell and they seemed identical to me. Otherwise, we'd have some copyright infringement issues unless the design was licensed to both?
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2013, 9:26 PM
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I love my bushnell G2DMR....

I also love my Vortex Razor Red dot....

I'm 'happy' with my nikon buckmasters....

And fairly pleased with my nikon monarch VSD red dots...

Thing is OP never stated what product he was interested in.....

I'll take nikon/vortex/bushnell over ANY pa whatever at whatever price point... They are all proven brands with quality products. The only people that rave about PA is Dimitri the salesman, and optics newbies or people on a budget- Which... even on a budget there are proven brands above pa.

The whole point is giving people as much information as possible and let them make their own decision. with ALL the information.

As to red dots... I only have/had tasco accudot (had); nikon monarch VSD (2) and vortex razor red dot (1) Those cover cheap, midline, and highline... I strongly recommend the nikon and vortex- the tasco or anything in that price point... not so much... though that trashco did work just fine for about 10 years....

Last edited by postal; 10-19-2013 at 9:29 PM..
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  #10  
Old 10-20-2013, 12:54 AM
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Thanks Postal. I should have been clear on the product as I am just working with Holographic and Red Dot sights.

Who do you think makes the best bang for the buck scopes?
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  #11  
Old 10-20-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocker23 View Post
Thanks Postal. I should have been clear on the product as I am just working with Holographic and Red Dot sights.

Who do you think makes the best bang for the buck scopes?
not to speak for Postal, but Weaver Tactical are extremely good bang for buck... Bushnell Elite line are very good as well... One of the most recent scopes I've acquired, Bushnell PCL Throw Down (from their AR Optics line) is hard to beat at it's price point.

Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 EMDR is the most overlooked scope imo: http://swfa.com/Weaver-3-15x50-Tacti...pe-P49448.aspx made at the LOW factory in Japan - very good glass, outstanding features, super robust... probably my favorite scope... under $800 it's one of the top bang for buck!
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2013, 4:37 PM
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Depends on what the intended use is.

What type/cartridge rifle it's going on, maximum distance you plan to shoot... Hunting, paper, competition.. (if comp- what comp)

Too many questions to settle on a specific recommendation.

However, decent products at price points....

Weaver, Nikon, swfa super sniper, zeiss(conquest), vortex, bushnell all make good products. Then you go up to March, nightforce, schmidt and bender/premier, and US Optics

Last edited by postal; 10-20-2013 at 4:45 PM..
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2013, 10:03 PM
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Most shooting will be at 100 yards with an AR15 shooting 5.56 and .22LR.
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  #14  
Old 10-20-2013, 11:31 PM
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I have both the PA and the TRS25 micros and I'm pretty sure they are the same besides the removable base.

Both will get you to 100 yds. Beyond that gets tough to see for me.
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2013, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocker23 View Post
To be more specific:

How does a Bushnell TR-25 compare vs Primary Arms?

Postal LOVES Bushell.. I think??

Agreed. I'd like to know how they compare.

Does the Primary Arms have that annoying little piece inside towards the bottom corner? It distracts me from the red dot, when I looked at the Bushnell TRS-25.

I'm interested in the new Primary Arms MD-06L;
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...e-p/md-06l.htm

I'd like to pick up an optic for my AR, but I simply cannot afford an Aimpoint or Eotech (or something similar), so until I can, I'd like to purchase something quality for a well built AR, but still more or less inexpensive (~$200 w/mount).
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2013, 12:13 AM
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The Primary Arms micro dot has 3000 hours battery life?
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2013, 12:44 AM
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Forgot about this video... It helps answer my own questions.

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  #18  
Old 10-21-2013, 2:35 AM
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Default Bushnell and Primary Arms Optics Identical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
I guess maybe if the op was looking at cheap red dots.... maybe....

As to scopes, I've never seen a review of anyone I trust going over a primary arms.

However I do have this report from a 3rd party who tests scopes... and here is a review of a bushnell 3.5-21 G2DMR....

Note the image doesnt show the full report, but it clearly ends with "this is one of the best scopes I've....." Also note the "smiley face that each click value is supposed to be 1/10 actually measures .101.... Obviously the tester was impressed with this scope.....


So.... Anyone that thinks bushnell and primary are the same quality.... I'd say let Dimitri have one of his scopes evaluated by the same company and lets compare..... Otherwise, I think bushnell is top notch at a very attractive price. Note this test was a 3.5-21 G2DMR which retails about $1,300... if you want something better, get ready to spend at least twice as much... And even still.. it might not test as good......

So... Dimitri.... care to send in one of your 'tactical scopes' for eval and post the report? I'm very curious about them... as I only hear reviews of novices.... no one I know or trust has played with one- this would be a good test for quality that would convince me of your products.

Full article here-http://www.caprc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4666



It appears your not aware we use the same factories and parts. There is plenty of live video of me shooting our optics. Our Micros and Bushnell's will handle a beating. Our ACSS is laser edged and the BDC is as true as it gets take a look for your self and read reviews coming back on how effective the ACSS and Micros are.FYI .2 mil error is .69 MOA not sure how or why you think thats good your off over 4" at 600 yards. The orange stickers on our BDC chart represent .5 moa and as you can see its dead on! Sounds like you love Bushnell and to you PA is junk, if the logo does it for you we carry Bushnell as well.





http://youtu.be/nxwaiDeXP8c
http://youtu.be/4sdqrjEl2wM
http://youtu.be/iq1jh_njvjg

The real test is at the range,its the best evaluation lab period.


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Last edited by PrimaryArms; 10-21-2013 at 8:45 AM..
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2013, 4:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalPlinker View Post
Agreed. I'd like to know how they compare.

Does the Primary Arms have that annoying little piece inside towards the bottom corner? It distracts me from the red dot, when I looked at the Bushnell TRS-25.

I'm interested in the new Primary Arms MD-06L;
https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...e-p/md-06l.htm

I'd like to pick up an optic for my AR, but I simply cannot afford an Aimpoint or Eotech (or something similar), so until I can, I'd like to purchase something quality for a well built AR, but still more or less inexpensive (~$200 w/mount).
Don't get the L model. That is setup for a left handed shooter. The dial and emitter will be right in your line of sight. Get the regular Model 06 like this https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...se-p/md-06.htm. All the micro's will have that annoying little thing in them. It's called the emitter and is what projects the dot. Even an Aimpoint T1 has one, however it is a little less noticable but it's there. Once you use the sight with both eyes open you won't even notice the thing is in there.

What you want to avoid is getting one that places the emitter in your line of sight. Like I said above, the 06 L model will have the emitter and dial on the left, while the normal 06 model will have the emitter and dial on the right. Much better for a right handed shooter. Hope that helps.

Last edited by Losd619; 10-21-2013 at 4:22 AM..
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Old 10-21-2013, 8:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
Not even close...

Seriously?????????????????????????????
Lol postal=Bushnell fanboy

I own the MD-6 6x and 1-6x from PA you really need to find out for your self instead of bash these good people. PA has the best bang for the buck optics and customer service.
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  #21  
Old 10-21-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimaryArms View Post
It appears your not aware we use the same factories and parts. There is plenty of live video of me shooting our optics. Our Micros and Bushnell's will handle a beating. Our ACSS is laser edged and the BDC is as true as it gets take a look for your self and read reviews coming back on how effective the ACSS and Micros are.FYI .2 mil error is .69 MOA not sure how or why you think thats good your off over 4" at 600 yards. The orange stickers on our BDC chart represent .5 moa and as you can see its dead on! Sounds like you love Bushnell and to you PA is junk, if the logo does it for you we carry Bushnell as well.


Dimitri
So... when you get the 4-14 mil/mil FFP.... Send one out to Score high to test it, and compare to the bushnell I posted.

If it scores anywhere near as high, I would recommend your products. If not...

Read the test sheet... They aren't just comparing the reticle measurement... The actual click measurement and backlash and return to zero.

I love any product that is a quality product for a good price. Prove yours is by sending one out for testing.
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2013, 1:35 PM
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comparing a $230 scope to a $1300 scope isn't really fair is it? Not to bash on either but they seem like they are in 2 different categories. PA gives options typically found only on more expensive scopes in a cheaper package. You lose a bit of quality for it. If i had $1300 to spend on a scope, I probably would be looking elsewhere as well, but if I only wanted to spend <$300 then PA is definitely an option. Personally I do not need a $1000 optic (or $500 rds) for 50-100yard paper punching when putting together the 3rd or 4th rifle (i splurged on my first 2).

To answer the OP's question, I heard great things about both TRS25 and the PA micro. I believe they picked from the same part bucket and assembled to different specs for the different companies. I would pick the TRS25 over the PA if they have a rebate again though.
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2013, 2:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
So... when you get the 4-14 mil/mil FFP.... Send one out to Score high to test it, and compare to the bushnell I posted.

If it scores anywhere near as high, I would recommend your products. If not...

Read the test sheet... They aren't just comparing the reticle measurement... The actual click measurement and backlash and return to zero.

I love any product that is a quality product for a good price. Prove yours is by sending one out for testing.
Another option would be for you to send one of his out for testing to prove it isn't a quality product before you go around bashing it.

I hear a lot of good reviews on PA products, and a reasonably small percentage of people saying that it's not a good product for the price point.
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Old 10-21-2013, 3:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taifei View Post
comparing a $230 scope to a $1300 scope isn't really fair is it? Not to bash on either but they seem like they are in 2 different categories. PA gives options typically found only on more expensive scopes in a cheaper package. You lose a bit of quality for it. .
There are a number of scopes in different price ranges in the "elite" series. Including cheaper ones that would be a more fair comparison.
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Old 10-21-2013, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipkiller View Post
Another option would be for you to one of his out for testing to prove it isn't a quality product before you go around bashing it.

I hear a lot of good reviews on PA products, and a reasonably small percentage of people saying that it's not a good product for the price point.
Wouldnt everyone be more comfortable with a neutral 3rd party doing the testing?
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  #26  
Old 10-21-2013, 5:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Losd619 View Post
Don't get the L model. That is setup for a left handed shooter. The dial and emitter will be right in your line of sight. Get the regular Model 06 like this https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...se-p/md-06.htm. All the micro's will have that annoying little thing in them. It's called the emitter and is what projects the dot. Even an Aimpoint T1 has one, however it is a little less noticable but it's there. Once you use the sight with both eyes open you won't even notice the thing is in there.

What you want to avoid is getting one that places the emitter in your line of sight. Like I said above, the 06 L model will have the emitter and dial on the left, while the normal 06 model will have the emitter and dial on the right. Much better for a right handed shooter. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the info. That actually helped.
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Old 10-21-2013, 6:35 PM
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Awesome replies here - also good for Primary Arms themselves to chime in.

How is

The Eotech G33 vs Primary Arms 3X Long Eye Relief Red Dot Magnifier ?

Price is 460 for the G33 vs 200 for the Primary Arms and flip to side mount? Also.. can the flip to side mount be adjusted to flip to the left for left handed shooters?
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Old 10-21-2013, 6:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glocker23 View Post
Awesome replies here - also good for Primary Arms themselves to chime in.

How is

The Eotech G33 vs Primary Arms 3X Long Eye Relief Red Dot Magnifier ?

Price is 460 for the G33 vs 200 for the Primary Arms and flip to side mount? Also.. can the flip to side mount be adjusted to flip to the left for left handed shooters?
based on specs, the PA has longer eye relief... I have one for sale - (like new) in box with butler creek caps and bikini covers:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=830109
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  #29  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Do you mean these two:
Primary Arms Micro Dot
and
Bushnell Trophy TRS-25

The rumor is that they are made at the same factory with minor differences.
I've seen this discussed several times in the past year on multiple forums and I believe even confirmed once.

It's like the Primary Arms 1-4x24 scope and the Millet 1-4x24 DMS, same scope, different reticules and branding.
Just some additional observations...

The PA 4-14x also looks like an OEM / Variant of the BSA 4-14x FFP

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary-...pa4-14xffp.htm

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/456...tNum=103734563

Falcon Menace also has a 4-14x scope with a striking resemblance.
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  #30  
Old 10-22-2013, 9:37 AM
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Default Bushnell and Primary Arms Optics Identical?

There is an ACSS 4-14 FFP HUD coming that will have a revolutionary laser edged reticle that with the help of anti cant device with allow you to engage targets of unknown range and movers faster and more accurate then ever before. We will reveal the design in the near future. Because everything is on the glass you don't need to pull your head out of the sight picture to look at data ideal for semi auto AR10/.308 I originally was creating it for the M110 . Hint the name HUD head up display. It will auto range and BDC out 1000 yards with 5-10 mph holds ,featuring
Auto LR-BDC a feature that I can't discuss in detail just yet.

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  #31  
Old 10-22-2013, 1:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
Wouldnt everyone be more comfortable with a neutral 3rd party doing the testing?
Actually I think everyone is already comfortable with the fact tht PA offers a lot of bang for your buck and some really decent quality optics at their price points.

The only one seeming to be having an issue is you.
The only validity to your point was when the OP failed to clarify that he was referring to the Micro-dot/TRS-25 twins.
And that was remedied 3 days ago and less than 3 hours after his initial post.

So what exactly is your point in trying to compare a $1,300 scope and a $250 scope and what exactly does it have to do with the OP's question or this thread?
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