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  #1  
Old 09-28-2013, 7:23 PM
JamminJ JamminJ is offline
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Default Steyr AUG A3 SA Rifle

Any idea when you might get the compliance parts and be able to offer a California legal version of this rifle?

The AUG A3 guy is on my "must have" list should the new gun ban bill get signed.
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2013, 2:54 PM
NickDev NickDev is offline
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Also curious if there will be a CA compliant version, any info?
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2013, 5:29 PM
crazychinaman crazychinaman is offline
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There is,they are just out of the Ca conversion parts.
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  #4  
Old 10-03-2013, 9:36 AM
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Riflegear Riflegear is offline
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You can buy the non-California version and put a "note" on your order stating that you're waiting for the compliance parts. We will call you when they arrive and charge you the difference.

Thanks!

-RG Staff
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2013, 7:36 PM
JamminJ JamminJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riflegear View Post
You can buy the non-California version and put a "note" on your order stating that you're waiting for the compliance parts. We will call you when they arrive and charge you the difference.

Thanks!

-RG Staff
Sweet! I just placed the order, hope the parts show up soon.
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2013, 9:30 AM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Disclaimer: There are different views regarding the Steyr AUG and whether it is legal or not in CA, but I am posting this so that customers have additional information/view regarding issues regarding this firearm with respect to so-called a-salt weapon ban by name.

The CA PC in the ban by name lists "Steyer AUG", in which it is claimed that the name is a typo. In my opinion the typo name issue is the ONLY way in which the Steyr AUG/A3 could be considered not to be banned by name. If the CA PC listed it as "Steyr AUG/AS", then a "Steyr AUG/A3 AS" might be considered a different model, but that is not the case.

Please see CA PC 30510(a)(15):

Quote:
30510. As used in this chapter and in Sections 16780, 17000, and
27555, "assault weapon" means the following designated semiautomatic
firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
...
(15) Steyer AUG.
...
There is some confusion regarding the CA PC vs. the CA DOJ AW guide. The CA DOJ AW guide is just a guide and is not the actual CA PC. You would never be convicted for violating the guide, only the CA PC. The guide mentions that "AUG" is molded into the right side of the polymer stock and followed by "/SA". The A3 model actually has this in the stock, so it actually matches the marking in the guide. The "/SA" is NOT listed in the CA PC, which means that adding additional characters does not suddenly drop it from the named list. The Guide also has the longer version of the manufacturer's name, but again that name is not listed in the CA PC and only "Steyr" is marked on the firearm. For example, if, ignoring all the actual issues of doing it, you were to make a Ruger 10/22 and marked it as a Steyr AUG (licensing agreement), it could be considered banned because the name matches even though the firearm is completely different. The question is would it be found by a court that in addition to the name, does the firearm have to be exactly the same. A Court should find that the ban by name does not make any sense and toss it completely out, but are you willing to bet that would happen?

Realize that there is NO difference other than markings on the receiver between all of the named AR type firearms and a firearm which is off-list. A manufacturer, like DPMS, can make the same exact receiver other than the model line/number and it goes from a named lower to an off-list lower. It is the name which creates the problem.

Part of the problem is that the CA DOJ refuses to tell anyone other than law enforcement what their opinion is regarding this. When I contacted my local police, just to confirm my opinion, as well as the opinion of another FFL, I was told that the Steyr AUG/A3 is considered by them to be a so-called a-salt weapon and that a bullet button does not change anything since it is banned by name, not by function.

I have talked to Riflegear about this and they are sticking to their view that it is legal, but realize that you might end up being a test case for this issue. I personally don't buy that adding the "/A3" changes anything since the "/AS" is not listed in the CA PC.

I personally think that it would be difficult for a person to be convicted in this case due to the incorrect name in the CA PC, but the cost in terms of time, effort and money to defend yourself if you were charged could be quite high, as well the firearm could be taken from you.
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2013, 10:25 AM
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shark92651 shark92651 is offline
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We appreciate the concern Kemasa, but besides the fact that there is a different spelling for the manufacturer and a different model number listed in the PC, the other reason we feel it is off-list is because the actual manufacturer, as recognized by the AFT, is VLTOR Weapons Systems, not Steyr.

27 CFR 478.92
A.1.ii
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...-overview.html
Firearms. You, as a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer of firearms, must legibly identify each firearm manufactured or imported as follows:

Quote:
By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed) or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed. For firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch.
The Laser engraving of Steyr is just a mark, and not the actual identifying information, as the engraved part on the bottom of the receiver is clearly marked Vltor Weapon systems or Sabre Defense for older A3's. Customer's need to weigh the risk when making a purchase (an MSAR, for example, would be less risk), indeed you can get arrested for having perfectly legal firearms and you could possibly need to hire an attorney or defend yourself in court, but we stick by our position that this rifle is off-list.

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  #8  
Old 10-19-2013, 10:50 AM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shark92651 View Post
...
but we stick by our position that this rifle is off-list.
Are you willing to pay the legal bills for customers if they have a problem and/or refund their purchase price if the firearm is taken away from them? If you REALLY believe in your view, then you would be willing to do that. If not, you are putting others at risk, as well as yourself, but your means of justifying it are bogus (other than the listed name).

The different spelling is the ONLY thing that stands a chance. You are playing fast and loose with the laws and that could come back to bite you.

The VISIBLE name for the manufacturer is Steyr. The hidden name does not matter and I suspect that any FFL that you ship the firearm to is going to mark it as a Steyr, not the hidden name. Due to this, I doubt that the BATF would consider the hidden name to be the official name to use when logging the firearm. Please provide some basis that the BATF does not consider the manufacturer to be Steyr. Due to the manufacturer laws/rules, it is possible to have multiple manufacturer's names on a firearm, but having a second name does not eliminate any other name. Are you willing to bet which name FFLs use to log the firearm in when you send them this firearm?

As to the model, this is where you are making a serious mistake. As I have told you numerous times the CA PC lists the model only as "AUG". This means that it would not be considered a different model under the CA PC just because it has "/A3" after the AUG, plus it also still has the AS on it and the stock matches the guide as well. Please provide some real basis for your claim that this would be considered to be a different model under the CA PC.
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2013, 10:54 AM
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kemasa kemasa is offline
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I do suggest that people follow the link provided:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...-overview.html

Quote:
2. Name of Manufacturer

Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame, receiver, barrel or slide
Under the stock is NOT "conspicuously". The name that is VISIBLE is.

You claim that the hidden name is the real name is deceptive, at best.

I am curious as to which name you use to log the firearms, so which is it? The visible name or the hidden name?

It is a real problem for you to make all of these bogus/deceptive claims in order to justify your position. As I said, the fact that the name is different in the CA PC is the only chance of the firearm not being considered banned by name. All of your other arguments only serve to make you look bad in my opinion and you had best hope that you are not made to be the test case.
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Last edited by kemasa; 10-19-2013 at 10:57 AM..
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  #10  
Old 10-19-2013, 11:17 AM
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shark92651 shark92651 is offline
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The ambiguity of the actual markings and the actual manufacturer is a secondary argument for us. It is your assertion that a suffix on a model name/number does not alter the model, it is our assertion, and that of our firearms attorney, that it does indeed designate a different model.

For what it's worth, we are not the only ones selling it or that considers it off-list, although I doubt you would agree with any of these other calgunners either:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...light=AUG%2FA3

Kemasa, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I value your input, but after consulting with our firearm attorney we are comfortable in our assertion that this is an off-list rifle and I am going to have to leave it at that.
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Last edited by shark92651; 10-23-2013 at 5:25 PM..
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