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  #1  
Old 09-05-2013, 1:50 PM
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Default Homeowner shoots firefighter

I just got forwarded this news story from a friend in the Central Valley... http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/09/05/...northwest.html Apparently, a firefighter responding to a medical alert alarm was shot in the leg as he was outside the structure looking for a way in. The homeowner said it was a "misunderstanding" because he claimed not to have a medical alert system. Just goes to show, no matter the nature of the call always be prepared for the worst to happen!
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Old 09-05-2013, 2:10 PM
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"The homeowner said he does not have a medical alert device. The house was having alarm problems, however, and the homeowner thought he was being targeted by criminals when he saw someone in his yard and opened fire."

And all the lights and sirens weren't enough of a hint?!
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2013, 2:19 PM
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Wow. Saw someone in the yard and opened fire? Fail.


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Old 09-05-2013, 2:35 PM
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So which Calguns OT poster did the shooting.
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  #5  
Old 09-05-2013, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
So which Calguns OT poster did the shooting.

Exactly
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  #6  
Old 09-05-2013, 3:34 PM
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was he using a double barrel shotgun? Maybe he was just taking advice from our friend Uncle Joe.
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Old 09-05-2013, 4:04 PM
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Lucky this was Fresno for the guy who shot the firefighter and not one of the small towns surrounding Fresno. A lot of the small cities around Fresno have policys where the police department responds with the fire department and paramedics on calls. Had it been a City like Kingsburg just South of Fresno, the shooter probarly would have gotten shot himself.
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Old 09-05-2013, 4:10 PM
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just glad he's a poor shot
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2013, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
So which Calguns OT poster did the shooting.
Ha! You beat me to it Sir
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  #10  
Old 09-05-2013, 6:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
So which Calguns OT poster did the shooting.
LOL no kidding. After all, they are waaaay more qualified and competent to carry a firearm than your average beat cop....
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Old 09-05-2013, 7:47 PM
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Only in Fresyes. hog out
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Old 09-05-2013, 7:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimdelmar View Post
Wow. Saw someone in the yard and opened fire? Fail.


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Read the article. Fire fighter was attempting to climb through the window, the alarm woke up the home owner.
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Old 09-05-2013, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRICKSTER View Post
So which Calguns OT poster did the shooting.
Maybe the same one that started the thread about firefighters tress passing looking for brush clearance compliance..

Edit: Something about the bright yellow firefighter gear and hard hat would tell me not to shoot..
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2013, 9:01 PM
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Wasn't me!
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Old 09-06-2013, 3:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglou View Post
Read the article. Fire fighter was attempting to climb through the window, the alarm woke up the home owner.
That wasn't in the original story, but that appears to be what actually happened. The skinny I got earlier was EMS/hose draggers were knocking on the door and found an unlocked window after getting the alarm call. As one firefighter begins to climb through the window somehow at that point the homeowner hears an alarm, sees someone coming inside his house, and fires the round.

At this point no charges are being filed (so I am told, I have no idea...). I guess detectives actually went into the room where the family was at and couldn't hear the doorbell/someone pounding on the door when they were doing their investigation. I'm curious to see if anything else happens but it sounds like the fireman and the homeowner are both lucky guys.

Last edited by CBR_rider; 09-06-2013 at 3:15 AM..
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Old 09-06-2013, 7:41 AM
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One of the local Fresno TV stations reported this morning that no charges will be filed against the homeowner.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglou View Post
Read the article. Fire fighter was attempting to climb through the window, the alarm woke up the home owner.
That makes a Little more sense - figures the media wouldn't get the story right.

Did they trying calling the location prior to making entry?
Did the homeowner give a verbal warning?
Either one of those could have helped...
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
Maybe the same one that started the thread about firefighters tress passing looking for brush clearance compliance..

Edit: Something about the bright yellow firefighter gear and hard hat would tell me not to shoot..
And the big red truck with flashing lights. Yeah, I did read the article and the posts about the investigation. Just making a wise crack.
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  #19  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuelx View Post
That makes a Little more sense - figures the media wouldn't get the story right.

Did they trying calling the location prior to making entry?
Did the homeowner give a verbal warning?
Either one of those could have helped...
When did a verbal warning become a requirement to self defense?
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  #20  
Old 09-08-2013, 1:38 PM
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Default Verbal

Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P40FAN View Post
When did a verbal warning become a requirement to self defense?
Verbal is not required

But deadly force might need to meet the immediate fear of serious bodily injury or death requirement.
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  #21  
Old 09-08-2013, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P40FAN View Post
When did a verbal warning become a requirement to self defense?
Did I say "needed to" "had to" or "should have"?
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2013, 9:52 PM
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I can’t count the number of times I’ve done what this guy did, sans getting shot. It’s an “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up” type of alarm. You can’t just ignore it; some old lady could have fallen or be stuck on the toilet. It would be bad form to just blow it off and hurry back to the recliner.

Ideally, entry is forced after banging on the doors and windows, looking in all the windows and having dispatch call the residence. You also want to have dispatch ensure it’s just a Medic Alert type alarm. Some are combination Medic Alert and panic or just panic, which the resident would push if a bad guy was breaking in (the cops handle those.) We usually try to make access via windows because many people leave them ajar or if you have to break something, a widow is cheaper to replace than a front door.

The picture in the OP shows him wearing his PT shorts. The article said he was in his turnout pants, which are the bulky yellow things we wear. He likely had them over his shorts and the bullet went through both (a little further west and it really would have hurt.)

It’s hard to imagine the homeowner couldn’t figure out this guy was a fireman, based on what he was wearing. Plus, hopefully the FF was verbalizing “fire department” loudly so that the resident would hear him. Apparently the resident didn’t hear them pounding on the front door, so I guess he wouldn’t have heard someone yelling “fire department.”

The homeowner may have escaped charges but his actions were reckless. If he couldn’t figure out the guy in yellow was a fireman, he wouldn’t have figured out a guy in dark blue or tan was a cop who could shoot back. Things may have turned out much worse in that case.

.

Last edited by Doheny; 09-08-2013 at 10:04 PM.. Reason: typo
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  #23  
Old 09-09-2013, 1:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
I canít count the number of times Iíve done what this guy did, sans getting shot. Itís an ďIíve fallen and I canít get upĒ type of alarm. You canít just ignore it; some old lady could have fallen or be stuck on the toilet. It would be bad form to just blow it off and hurry back to the recliner.

Ideally, entry is forced after banging on the doors and windows, looking in all the windows and having dispatch call the residence. You also want to have dispatch ensure itís just a Medic Alert type alarm. Some are combination Medic Alert and panic or just panic, which the resident would push if a bad guy was breaking in (the cops handle those.) We usually try to make access via windows because many people leave them ajar or if you have to break something, a widow is cheaper to replace than a front door.

The picture in the OP shows him wearing his PT shorts. The article said he was in his turnout pants, which are the bulky yellow things we wear. He likely had them over his shorts and the bullet went through both (a little further west and it really would have hurt.)

Itís hard to imagine the homeowner couldnít figure out this guy was a fireman, based on what he was wearing. Plus, hopefully the FF was verbalizing ďfire departmentĒ loudly so that the resident would hear him. Apparently the resident didnít hear them pounding on the front door, so I guess he wouldnít have heard someone yelling ďfire department.Ē

The homeowner may have escaped charges but his actions were reckless. If he couldnít figure out the guy in yellow was a fireman, he wouldnít have figured out a guy in dark blue or tan was a cop who could shoot back. Things may have turned out much worse in that case.

.
Next time someone is breaking into my house I'll be sure to check his credentials before I defend my family.
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  #24  
Old 09-09-2013, 3:53 AM
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Just something to point out, I don't know how thins work in Fresno, but a bit to the south, in Tulare county, it's not uncommon, in many areas, for the volunteer fire fighters to show up to a scene before a truck with lights and sirens.


Also, if the guy is climbing through a window without identifying himself, (not relying on the guys at the front door to do it, I mean, yelling out who he is himself and asking if anyone needs any help) then I think the guy would be quite justified in taking the shot.


I would be interested in hearing how they got a medical alert from a residence with no medical alert system.
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Old 09-09-2013, 8:34 AM
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I blame the militarization of our fire and EMS services. These types of no knock rescues need to stop. I saw a firefighter the other day, and his turnout pants had cargo pockets on them. Firefighters don't need cargo pockets.
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Old 09-09-2013, 8:58 AM
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WOW!!
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Old 09-09-2013, 3:05 PM
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Simple solution for these anti government types. Cities and counties should establish do not respond list for EMS and Fire calls. Those who do not want the services should be able to sign a waiver, be put on the list and Fire and Medical will never respond to their home. They would also not be allowed to have any type of alarm system that triggered a response from a government agency. Of course they would still pay taxes just like everyone else because Fire would still need to respond and stand by to make sure that the fire from their burning house didn't spread to someone else property. Problem solved and they won't have to worry about someone coming onto their property to save them or one of their family member's lives. And of course, their insurance companies would also be notified of their decision to opt out.
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Last edited by TRICKSTER; 09-09-2013 at 3:19 PM..
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Old 09-09-2013, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D View Post
I blame the militarization of our fire and EMS services. These types of no knock rescues need to stop. I saw a firefighter the other day, and his turnout pants had cargo pockets on them. Firefighters don't need cargo pockets.
I agree that this call could have been handled better. I don't know why you think firefighters don't need cargo pockets though. I have my turnout pants cargo pockets full of tools, most of which are there to help me if i become entrapped, need to bail out of a building or assist with a rescue
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Old 09-09-2013, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ffjdh View Post
I agree that this call could have been handled better. I don't know why you think firefighters don't need cargo pockets though. I have my turnout pants cargo pockets full of tools, most of which are there to help me if i become entrapped, need to bail out of a building or assist with a rescue
Brother, change the batteries in your sarcasm detector.
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Old 09-09-2013, 7:45 PM
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Brother, change the batteries in your sarcasm detector.
My bad! I'm so used to having to defend LEO, EMS, and Fire sometimes I forget I'm on a forum with people who are like minded.
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Old 09-29-2013, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P40FAN View Post
Next time someone is breaking into my house I'll be sure to check his credentials before I defend my family.
That's not it. This falls more under being sure of your target. Showing some caution before shooting in your home at some person you don't know who it is, isn't an attack on the second amendment or something... it's part of being a responsible gun owner.
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Old 09-29-2013, 8:32 PM
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you're telling me, i'm a pretty slim guy. so guess who gets asked to climb through windows and what not i do. this is honestly my worst fear, which is why i make sure like anyone else to yell "fire department...ect" (depending on circumstances) while trying adn climbing into any residence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuelx View Post
"The homeowner said he does not have a medical alert device. The house was having alarm problems, however, and the homeowner thought he was being targeted by criminals when he saw someone in his yard and opened fire."

And all the lights and sirens weren't enough of a hint?!
in the home owners defense, most of us turn the sirens off once we get into a neighborhood as blairing them does us no good to get to the scene any faster. typically at night even if none ones on the road we just leave the lights on, illegal yes but honestly it's annoying and i understand most people are trying to sleep at the wee hours of the night.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamin101677 View Post
Lucky this was Fresno for the guy who shot the firefighter and not one of the small towns surrounding Fresno. A lot of the small cities around Fresno have policys where the police department responds with the fire department and paramedics on calls. Had it been a City like Kingsburg just South of Fresno, the shooter probarly would have gotten shot himself.
almost everywhere this is standard policy its called a "welfare check" and not the paper kind obama hands out. because most of these systems are wired for burglaries and fire's among other situations police departments always show up. The other major thing is atleast in orange county the police department will make forced entry and not the fire department in unknown situations, in la county the fire department makes forced entry most times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
I can’t count the number of times I’ve done what this guy did, sans getting shot. It’s an “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up” type of alarm. You can’t just ignore it; some old lady could have fallen or be stuck on the toilet. It would be bad form to just blow it off and hurry back to the recliner.

Ideally, entry is forced after banging on the doors and windows, looking in all the windows and having dispatch call the residence. You also want to have dispatch ensure it’s just a Medic Alert type alarm. Some are combination Medic Alert and panic or just panic, which the resident would push if a bad guy was breaking in (the cops handle those.) We usually try to make access via windows because many people leave them ajar or if you have to break something, a widow is cheaper to replace than a front door.

The picture in the OP shows him wearing his PT shorts. The article said he was in his turnout pants, which are the bulky yellow things we wear. He likely had them over his shorts and the bullet went through both (a little further west and it really would have hurt.)

It’s hard to imagine the homeowner couldn’t figure out this guy was a fireman, based on what he was wearing. Plus, hopefully the FF was verbalizing “fire department” loudly so that the resident would hear him. Apparently the resident didn’t hear them pounding on the front door, so I guess he wouldn’t have heard someone yelling “fire department.”

The homeowner may have escaped charges but his actions were reckless. If he couldn’t figure out the guy in yellow was a fireman, he wouldn’t have figured out a guy in dark blue or tan was a cop who could shoot back. Things may have turned out much worse in that case.

.

i'm guessing you must work in the ems field as do i
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Last edited by Medics197; 09-29-2013 at 8:40 PM..
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