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  #1  
Old 09-11-2013, 3:38 PM
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Could someone school me on why registration is a bad idea? This isn't a rhetorical question!

I'm on the fence...

And if it leads to confiscation like I have heard, then what are some examples of that in occurring the US.
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  #2  
Old 09-11-2013, 3:48 PM
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There are multiple opinions about registration ranging from "so what" to "OMFG". Is it the governments business to know what firearms you own? Many see registration as the first step in confiscation, many don't.

I personally don't see it as huge deal, at least for now, but I don't particularly like it either. State reps here in Cali have already proposed, and then pulled, confiscation legislation. I wouldn't be surprised if they try it again down the road though. They seem to care less that SCOTUS has said pretty clearly that confiscation is unconstitutional; if they can grab several thousand before they are stopped they'll be happy. After all, any funds required to reimburse those who had their guns illegally confiscated would come from...wait for it...the Cali taxpayers.... so what would they care?
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  #3  
Old 09-11-2013, 3:49 PM
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I think a better question would be "Why is registration a good idea?"

Please provide examples of registration leading to confiscation in Germany prior to Hitler's program. Or, give us an example of registration leading to confiscation in any country prior to it happening the first time. Don't be fooled into thinking that the US is somehow different than every other country that has firearms registration. Now, if you just want California examples, how about all the registered SKS-Ds that were required to be turned into the state? Or, maybe you remember the Walther P-22s that were legally sold here and then the DOJ sent letters demanding they be turned to the state. Do you remember the Don Anderson case, he ended up being convicted for an illegal AW which was the P-22 he legally purchased in CA.
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  #4  
Old 09-11-2013, 3:56 PM
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Sure, I posted this in another thread, but it works here too:

I thank NOBODY for the "privilege" of registering what should not be infringed upon in the first place.

I thank NOBODY for the requirement to turn my guns into the state of CA to be destroyed upon my death, in that they can not be passed down to my heirs due to that registration.

I thank NOBODY for the banning of future purchase of such fireams in the State of CA - indefinitely.

I thank NOBODY for the saying that property that I've owned for more than 30 years, and busted my butt and became successful, while earning the cash to purchase those pricey firearms, is suddenly NOT mine to have and NOT mine to sell unless I sell it it outside of CA.

I thank NOBODY for laying the red-carpet for future politicians or regimes that take the foundation of "registration isn't so bad" thought up by previous naive generations, and use those lists for confiscation. Sure, there are those that don't think that is immeidatley likely by the current neosocialists at the helm and I would agree (too soon) - but that does NOT mean future little-dictators won't abuse it. You can point to Bloomberg as an example of the mindset of someone that would call for confiscation and vet it with his own money, if decades earlier, someone had created the tools for him to use; "registration" is that tool. Don't think it can't happen.

I thank NOBODY for declaring that these are simply "allowed" me due to registration; yet they may be revoked at any time for reasons that may not be even related to their purpose (with no reimbursement for their value), and must be reliquished upon my death (with no reimbursement to my heirs for their value) as never having been mine to do as I please in the first place.

I thank NOBODY for declaring my firearms, many that I've owned for more than 30 years, as now and suddenly being criminal and subject to an allowed "assignment" to me, when previously I owned them free-and-clear of all constraints.... for 30 years or more, just to say that again to put this in context.

I thank NOBODY for persecuting me in absentia, for declaring I am a criminal and potentially dangerous due to owning a COMMON firearm design that has been around for more than 80 years, after a lifetime of never breaking the law, yet suddenly these COMMON firearms and their fringe aesthetics, features, or mechanical extremities makes me a criminal unless I comply by going against the 2nd Amendment.

I thank NOBODY for thinking removal of a "Bullet Button" to merely change how the firearm accepts and holds a magazine, is an even trade for registration.

I thank NOBODY for thinking regsitration is a good thing because THAT is what helps usher in these useless nonsensical laws that do NOT stop crime and do NOT protect anyone; and I can only imagine someone new to firearms, youthful and influenced by indoctrination, or simply naive, must think this is a good thing.
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #5  
Old 09-11-2013, 4:18 PM
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What do the call the no transfer part of their bill? When I die, my family has to turn in all of my guns? What do they call that, because to, it seems pretty clear.
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  #6  
Old 09-11-2013, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER View Post
I think a better question would be "Why is registration a good idea?"
I agree.

The question I think must be answered is what compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #7  
Old 09-11-2013, 7:30 PM
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I certainly can appreciate the dialectic approach! Registration is good for inventory purposes...so taxes can be applied. What else?
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  #8  
Old 09-11-2013, 7:39 PM
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That is the one real driving reason why we'll have to register guns here in Ca. Because if you read the bill...

SEC. 2.
Section 30900 of the Penal Code is amended to read:
(4)
(d) The department may charge a fee for registration of up to twenty dollars ($20) per person but not to exceed the actual reasonable processing costs of the department. After the department establishes fees sufficient to reimburse the department for reasonable processing costs, fees charged shall increase at a rate not to exceed the department’s actual reasonable processing costs. The fees shall be deposited into the Dealers’ Record of Sale Special Account.


That means YOU get to fund their jobs with your registration fees.
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  #9  
Old 09-11-2013, 11:37 PM
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Confiscation has already started. Check the APPS system
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  #10  
Old 09-11-2013, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDawgJJ View Post
Could someone school me on why registration is a bad idea? This isn't a rhetorical question!

I'm on the fence...

And if it leads to confiscation like I have heard, then what are some examples of that in occurring the US.
Concord and Lexington, British tried to seize civilian weapons after ordering them stored in one place. Katrina in New Orleans, confiscation. American Indians, most of the time disarmed at reservations. Black Coyote killed because he wouldn't give up his rifle at Wounded Knee. A nice printout would have made this a lot easier.
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2013, 2:00 PM
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Its not just registration. We already register pistols, but at least you can still buy new ones.

This is registration AND a ban. You will never be able to buy another one after the date the law goes into effect.

Further, after you register your AW it basically dies with you and becomes worthless because you cannot sell it to anyone.

You cannot lend it to anyone, even a spouse.

You may not allow anyone under 18 to shoot it. Even if you are present.

You must lock it up while you travel with it.

You will only be allowed to shoot it at a shooting range.

And lastly, can you point out how many crimes have ever been solved using data from a registration database in California?
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2013, 2:04 PM
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I would have less of a problem with registration if I could leave them to my children, or could sell them, and the registration goes with it. What I don't like is the de facto confiscation upon your death. This just means all assault weapons are destroyed within, oh, 70 years from now.
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  #13  
Old 09-12-2013, 2:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gleam View Post
Sure, I posted this in another thread, but it works here too:

I thank NOBODY for the "privilege" of registering what should not be infringed upon in the first place.

I thank NOBODY for the requirement to turn my guns into the state of CA to be destroyed upon my death, in that they can not be passed down to my heirs due to that registration.

I thank NOBODY for the banning of future purchase of such fireams in the State of CA - indefinitely.

I thank NOBODY for the saying that property that I've owned for more than 30 years, and busted my butt and became successful, while earning the cash to purchase those pricey firearms, is suddenly NOT mine to have and NOT mine to sell unless I sell it it outside of CA.

I thank NOBODY for laying the red-carpet for future politicians or regimes that take the foundation of "registration isn't so bad" thought up by previous naive generations, and use those lists for confiscation. Sure, there are those that don't think that is immeidatley likely by the current neosocialists at the helm and I would agree (too soon) - but that does NOT mean future little-dictators won't abuse it. You can point to Bloomberg as an example of the mindset of someone that would call for confiscation and vet it with his own money, if decades earlier, someone had created the tools for him to use; "registration" is that tool. Don't think it can't happen.

I thank NOBODY for declaring that these are simply "allowed" me due to registration; yet they may be revoked at any time for reasons that may not be even related to their purpose (with no reimbursement for their value), and must be reliquished upon my death (with no reimbursement to my heirs for their value) as never having been mine to do as I please in the first place.

I thank NOBODY for declaring my firearms, many that I've owned for more than 30 years, as now and suddenly being criminal and subject to an allowed "assignment" to me, when previously I owned them free-and-clear of all constraints.... for 30 years or more, just to say that again to put this in context.

I thank NOBODY for persecuting me in absentia, for declaring I am a criminal and potentially dangerous due to owning a COMMON firearm design that has been around for more than 80 years, after a lifetime of never breaking the law, yet suddenly these COMMON firearms and their fringe aesthetics, features, or mechanical extremities makes me a criminal unless I comply by going against the 2nd Amendment.

I thank NOBODY for thinking removal of a "Bullet Button" to merely change how the firearm accepts and holds a magazine, is an even trade for registration.

I thank NOBODY for thinking regsitration is a good thing because THAT is what helps usher in these useless nonsensical laws that do NOT stop crime and do NOT protect anyone; and I can only imagine someone new to firearms, youthful and influenced by indoctrination, or simply naive, must think this is a good thing.
^^^^That's a little bit of awesomeness right there!^^^^
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  #14  
Old 09-12-2013, 3:28 PM
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The sinister part about this scheme is the same as it was last time.

You guys with the guns, or who want one, relax, go ahead, buy one and keep it, no problem. We will give you a major heads up, after that, you can't buy one, but there's time. Then register them with us, but again, you can keep them.

The evil part, to me, is when I registered my AWs last time, there were people who weren't old enough, or whatever, to get an AW in time. Same thing here, we, the vocal ones, are permitted to keep our firearms.

Nobody else gets to buy one, ever. When we go, that's it. We can't give them to our kids, sell them, nothing.

This state will get what it wants in a generation. I sincerely believe they will never tryo to come and get them, they won't have to. When we go, it's over.
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  #15  
Old 09-12-2013, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur84 View Post
What do the call the no transfer part of their bill? When I die, my family has to turn in all of my guns? What do they call that, because to, it seems pretty clear.
There you go plain and simple, VOLUNTARY CONFISCATION!!!!!!!
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  #16  
Old 09-12-2013, 4:31 PM
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The California AW registration scheme has built in confiscation, it occurs upon your death.
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Old 09-12-2013, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ69 View Post
The California AW registration scheme has built in confiscation, it occurs upon your death.
Inaccurate: the law says
Quote:
Any person who obtains title to an assault weapon registered
under this article or that was possessed pursuant to subdivision (a)
of Section 30630 by bequest or intestate succession shall, within 90
days, do one or more of the following:
(a) Render the weapon permanently inoperable.
(b) Sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer.
(c) Obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same
manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 32650) of
Chapter 6.
(d) Remove the weapon from this state.
None of those options is 'surrender the gun to law enforcement'.

Now, none of them is 'my inheritors get to keep and use them here', either, but no confiscation as the law is today.
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  #18  
Old 09-12-2013, 4:39 PM
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One need look no further than the 1999-2000 SKS debacle right here in our beloved Utopia.

http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@lis.../msg15135.html

/debate
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  #19  
Old 09-12-2013, 4:58 PM
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I'd never give up my guns as long as I'm alive... I promise you that.
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  #20  
Old 09-12-2013, 9:18 PM
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With out registration,

How could they tax you to keep your guns?

How could they mandate more expensive liability / home owners / renters / even business insurance?

How could they ever confiscate?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDawgJJ View Post
Could someone school me on why registration is a bad idea? This isn't a rhetorical question!

I'm on the fence...

And if it leads to confiscation like I have heard, then what are some examples of that in occurring the US.
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