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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1
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What's the deal with currently owned, unassembled off-list lowers and registration if the current laws related to bb-equipped "assault weapons" passes?
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![]() If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. Government Official Lies . F r e e d o m . D i e s . |
#2
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The way the current version of the law reads the requirements for registration are:
1. Center fire 2. Rifle 3. Semiautomatic 4. Magazine removable without disassembly of the action Seems to me that there are a number of ways a stripped lower could be built that don't meet one or more of those requirements.
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#3
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Yeah, we can go back to the dreadful days of 2004 and 2005 when you had to have your mag pinned into the magwell (or epoxy) and had to top load. Ugh.
It would seem to me, any AR lower would have to be registered - built up or not - if not registered as a pistol lower. Becuase if it is not a pistol lower, it is 1, 2, 3, and 4 even just sitting there. |
#4
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I could be entirely wrong, but I don't think a stripped AR lower is centerfire. It isn't a rifle either, and it certainly isn't semi automatic.
That said, they will probably ban hunks of metal anyway.
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WARNING: THE ABOVE POST MAY CONTAIN EXCESSIVE USE OF SARCASM. ![]() Are you a member? |
#5
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If I DROS'ed a stripped lower at the LGS, it would be written up as a "long gun" without any caliber, barrel length, etc....because it is just a lower.
How would this be registered? It might have a rimfire upper at this point, be a single-shot or not even be assembled. Would I be in trouble for not registering it, as it is an "evil black rifle" - even if not functional?
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Just taking up space in the second-worst small town in California. |
#6
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#7
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I refuse to register anything so it wont matter to me. When I bought my guns I did it the perfectly legal way. I'll do nothing more.
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Idiocity, That state of the mind which cannot perceive and embrace the data presented to it by the senses. NRA - Life member SAF - Life member GOA - Member CalgunsFoundation - Supporter |
#8
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Same here man. I laugh at all of these people worrying about registering anything. Am I condoning breaking the law? No one is forcing anybody to keep their guns here so technically speaking no im not condoning breaking of the law.
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#9
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Do not confuse that with "worry".
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Just taking up space in the second-worst small town in California. |
#10
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Its not paranoid.....its prepared. NRA Certified Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/PPIH/PPOH Instructor | NRA Certified RSO | NRA Life Member | GSSF Life Time Member | Surefire Low Light Instructor | Glock Certified Armorer | Utah CCW Instructor | Nevada CCW Instructor |
#11
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Jcwatchdog, if you have a technology that's better than the abomination that's the AR-MR2 maglock, make every buyer sign a non-disclosure :-) Widely making it public just opens up the doors for revised legislation in 2014 :-)
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#12
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^^^^^This! Absolutely, NDA as a pre-condition to sale.
__________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine, The Crisis |
#13
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The reason I ask is a friend of mine has a stripped lower and was asking me what my opinion on it was. My stripped lower was built up a long time ago into a centerfire rifle with a bullet button.
They are concerned that the government may decide to close registration for BB-equipped centerfire rifles at some point. Kind of like how they are trying to cornhole us on our so-called high cap magazines now, or the 10/30 conversions for instance. Of course I think they could always build a featureless but they may or may not want that. Who knows these days? Or in the days to come?
__________________
![]() If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. Government Official Lies . F r e e d o m . D i e s . |
#15
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I may buy a stripped lower in two weeks …
![]() … assuming any are available by then.
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Matthew D. Van Norman Dancing Giant Sales | Licensed Firearms Dealer | Rainier, WA |
#16
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Stripped AR15 and LR308, both serialized and 80% versions. Lots of building while the courts do their thing.
__________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine, The Crisis |
#17
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They will simply make it a felony to possess it and a felony if you build it into a firearm...give it time.
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#18
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what's ATF definition of a rifle? The term “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...gca-rifle.html
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"What the hell happened to land of the free and home of the brave???" |
#19
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#20
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That may make sense for some folks. For example, someone who plans to leave the state soon may have the option to keep a lower unregistered and unbuilt until they move.
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#21
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are you encouraging people to manufacture aw after 12/31/13 if this bill passed?
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"What the hell happened to land of the free and home of the brave???" |
#22
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I don't think I ever said it did, in fact:
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What I am suggesting is if you don't register a stripped lower you would not be able to build it into a firearm that had any of the characteristics of the new AW definition. So, you could build it into a rimfire for example, or a non-semiautomatic centerfire, but not into anything that met the new definition of an AW. Quote:
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#23
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SECTION 1. Section 30515 of the Penal Code is amended to read: 30515. (a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following: (1) A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept no more than 10 rounds. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches. and here's what he says about possession of such aw: 30902. (a) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2013, inclusive, lawfully acquired an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, and including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with the use of a tool, and who, on or after January 1, 2014, lawfully possesses that firearm, shall register the firearm by July 1, 2015, with the department pursuant to procedures determined by the department. how can someone register aw as defined on 1/1/14 if they didn't legally acquire it by 12/31/13?? let's not try to sugar coat or suggest workarounds, especially when it's not final....
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"What the hell happened to land of the free and home of the brave???" Last edited by SemperFi1775; 09-08-2013 at 3:06 PM.. |
#24
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IMO we're past the time when they can make changes to these bills since they're coming up against the deadline and the final versions need to get thru both houses.
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#26
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And by default a CA legal AR is semiautomatic. Or are you trying to imply you "could" build it as a single shot & that is a loophole? Nevertheless it is a semiautomatic lower no? And an AR lower is centerfire by default. Or are you saying you "could" build it up with a 22lr conversion and that is a loophole? Nevertheless it is a centerfire lower no? |
#27
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If I buy a M2HB or M1919a4 and it is 4473'd as an other and DROSed as a long gun, it is not a rifle. Quote:
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__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#28
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The Harrott v. County of Kings ruling seems to say otherwise. The very reason we can have lowers. Before this case in 2001 you couldn't transfer or posses even a stripped AR/AK lower. Today what's illegal has to be specific, as to make and model, features, etc.
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#29
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For the sake of argument, if your lower is stamped .223/5.56 and it is not registered as a pistol, what is it? That stamp alone says it is a centerfire intended receiver. That stamp alone says it is an intended rifle (since it was not registered as a pistol). And if it was sold in CA it would be a semiautomatic. I think "default" in my posts becomes obvious what I mean and it becomes obvious what that receiver is. It is not an AR pistol so.... what else would/could it be built up into or its intended remaining purpose but an AR15 "rifle" ,223/5.56 stamp and thus "centerfire" and thus a semiautomatic? Oh & I fully understand your "until assembled" comments BUT again in this clear example if it us not a pistol what more could it be "finally assembled" into but.... a centerfire semiautomatic rifle. I'd say they ate going to need to be registered - sadly. Last edited by glock_this; 09-08-2013 at 7:23 PM.. |
#30
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2. There is nothing to stop someone from putting a .22 cal upper on a lower stamped .223/5.56 3. There is nothing to stop someone from building a rifle that is not semi-automatic on a lower that is stamped .223/5.56.
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Dave Lifetime Member, Second Amendment Foundation |
#32
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Offering low cost private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. ![]() |
#33
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2. Ahhh so you plan to play the loophole? Ok. Even if you put a 22lr on it it is a rifle & semiautomatic. Plus it is just a drop in conversion not an actual true 22lr lower. 3. What are you building a .223/5.56 AR lower that is not a semiautomatic? A single shot? I see what the game is here but you willing to risk it on semantics & word games? |
#34
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If your "intent" to make a 22lr is acceptable than how can the same "intent" not work in converse and your intentions are to make an AR centerfire semiautomatic rifle? Because ypu "said" you were not intending to? Think that would hold up in a legal fight? Just playing devils advocate because the question was asked. This is how I see it but not trying to be confrontational and if I read something that converts me I'll gladly change my position. Last edited by glock_this; 09-08-2013 at 7:50 PM.. |
#35
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#36
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Apparently someone hasn't seen BA uppers, they are very popular in the UK and other gun grabber Utopian states.
__________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine, The Crisis |
#37
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Instead of talking about whether we would need to register it, I think the conversation, rather, should be that registering it would preserve your ability to keep the receiver in a AW configuration. But perhaps this should take place when, and if, the bills become law.
__________________
![]() DISCLAIMER: The information contained herein is general in nature, which may not apply to particular factual or legal circumstances, and is intended for informational purposes only. Consistent with Calguns policy, the information does not constitute legal advice or opinions and should not be relied upon as such. Transmission of the information is not intended to create an attorney-client relationship. Readers should not act upon any information in my posts without seeking professional counsel. |
#38
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Precisely.
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__________________
Matthew D. Van Norman Dancing Giant Sales | Licensed Firearms Dealer | Rainier, WA |
#39
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here are even non-rifle uppers like .410 shotgun uppers or crossbow uppers. Quote:
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__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#40
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+1 I have numerous lowers that I have built into non-AW configurations ranging from .22LR semiautomatic to .416 Barrett bolt action. Given the modular characteristics of ARs, I've be marking each upper and lower to distinguish between AW and non-AW service. Also, for my .22LR rifles, I went with a purpose-built .22LR upper, so there is no "conversion" involved. Just slap the upper on and go.
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