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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #121  
Old 07-04-2012, 6:11 PM
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True, I wont argue with you there. I think if I had to live there I would get me a dope card the first week.
LOL, you guys can pass your own law. I'm not particularly fond of it myself.
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  #122  
Old 07-04-2012, 7:00 PM
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Still, how free are "free states". When certain state policies deprive others of what they may want. For instance, IF you are into growing pot, with the med card, you are free to do so here. I guess "free" is also in the eyes of the beholder. People into pot may consider CA the most free state in the union.
A poor example as growing or consuming pot is illegal nationwide per Federal law. By contrast the Feds don't care what magazine you put in your semi automatic AR15.
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  #123  
Old 07-04-2012, 7:00 PM
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LOL, you guys can pass your own law. I'm not particularly fond of it myself.
It wont happen here for a long time. I can't really say honestly that I am against it either. To me it is no worse than alcohol. That another story for another day.

Back to the topic of the thread. My heart goes out to the conservatives in California. Sort of like the federal government, the good news is that the current path and direction is actually unsustainable from a monetary standpoint.
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  #124  
Old 07-04-2012, 9:49 PM
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A poor example as growing or consuming pot is illegal nationwide per Federal law. By contrast the Feds don't care what magazine you put in your semi automatic AR15.
You're either grossly uninformed a lack context. It's the perfect analogy and robertmcm also got it. It's the exact opposite of reality, hicaps are unavailable to us via commerce (federally legal) but pot is available to us in CA if needed. Conversely pot is not available to you but mags are. So who is more free?

Again it's all depending on agenda and perspective.
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  #125  
Old 07-05-2012, 10:07 AM
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You're either grossly uninformed a lack context. It's the perfect analogy and robertmcm also got it. It's the exact opposite of reality, hicaps are unavailable to us via commerce (federally legal) but pot is available to us in CA if needed. Conversely pot is not available to you but mags are. So who is more free?

Again it's all depending on agenda and perspective.
For it to be a valid comparison pot would have to be legal in CA and illegal in Free America, but the legal reality is that MJ is still a Schedule I controlled substance at the Federal level.Your state medical grow and use permit is meaningless to the DEA & Federal court, which has jurisdiction over California and the other "57" states. Your argument is based on the idea that pot is legal in CA when in fact it's not,state permit notwithstanding.

My definition of 'freedom' in this discussion is limited to the rights in the Constitution, among which recreational & medical drug use isn't included. I don't agree with criminalization of MJ personally,but unlike gun control the government is freely empowered to regulate it without limitation of the Constitution. Put simply we have a right to keep and bear arms;we do not have a right to keep and smoke pot.
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  #126  
Old 07-05-2012, 1:06 PM
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Default Self Interest.

The people in the "Free States" need to understand that California is where many stupid gun laws that they have had to deal with start.

They also need to realize that as bad as California is, we have been the leaders in innovation. How many people have I Phones, guess where a lot of software and other hi tech stuff that they use in their lives is developed, "Duh".

The issue is do they want others(US) to fight the battles for gun rights here where if we contain it here, or would they rather fight for their gun rights on the federal level.

California may represent only 12 percent of the house, but when you add in New York, New Jersey, Mass, RI, Conn, Hi, Illonis and statist from blue districts in the so called "free states", you have a problem.

California is the "testing ground" for various "gun control" laws.

The problem we have is we need to make this case to the people in the "free states". The truth is they don't have the luxury of watching California fall into the sea.

I would lay odds that they people who complain the most in the free states are probably the people who complain alot, but when it comes to taking any real action, they are missing in action.

This will take work, perhaps we can reach the gun rights leaders in various states because if we can reach them, they can reach their people.

Our problem is gun owners as a whole tend to be individualist and unfortunately many individualist are "me centric".

Getting them to shift to a "we centric" mindset will take work, but that is what must be done to get them to work with us.

Nicki
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  #127  
Old 07-05-2012, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by nicki View Post
The people in the "Free States" need to understand that California is where many stupid gun laws that they have had to deal with start.

They also need to realize that as bad as California is, we have been the leaders in innovation. How many people have I Phones, guess where a lot of software and other hi tech stuff that they use in their lives is developed, "Duh".

The issue is do they want others(US) to fight the battles for gun rights here where if we contain it here, or would they rather fight for their gun rights on the federal level.

California may represent only 12 percent of the house, but when you add in New York, New Jersey, Mass, RI, Conn, Hi, Illonis and statist from blue districts in the so called "free states", you have a problem.

California is the "testing ground" for various "gun control" laws.

The problem we have is we need to make this case to the people in the "free states". The truth is they don't have the luxury of watching California fall into the sea.

I would lay odds that they people who complain the most in the free states are probably the people who complain alot, but when it comes to taking any real action, they are missing in action.

This will take work, perhaps we can reach the gun rights leaders in various states because if we can reach them, they can reach their people.

Our problem is gun owners as a whole tend to be individualist and unfortunately many individualist are "me centric".

Getting them to shift to a "we centric" mindset will take work, but that is what must be done to get them to work with us.

Nicki
I doubt its a problem of simple self interest. Lord knows the damage Feinstein and some of your reps do in the national legislative arena are enough reasons for gun owners nationwide to get involved in CA's RKBA fight.

The problem is one of culture. The nature of life in rural Red State America is so vastly different from that of urban Blue State America that in many ways its like two different countries. The perspectives on everything from commerce, to family values, to government and gun laws are a complete 180* difference from Chicago ,IL to Monteagle , KY. Many free state gun owners believe that cultural difference drives the legislative processes of the state, which means you guys are basically screwed unless you can import several million conservative expats and settle them in a way which can influence the California election process.

I am of the belief that the 2nd Amendment transcends political affiliation. In most places gun ownership and conservative politics go together, but in places like CA and IL that dynamic has to be broken out of sheer necessity. Unless the millions of liberals in California start valuing the 2nd Amendment they won't think anything of outlawing it, so you guys have to start changing minds instead of politics. I believe that's possible, but quite a few outside of CA's borders disagree. Time will prove which theory proves to be true.
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  #128  
Old 07-05-2012, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
I doubt its a problem of simple self interest. Lord knows the damage Feinstein and some of your reps do in the national legislative arena are enough reasons for gun owners nationwide to get involved in CA's RKBA fight.

The problem is one of culture. The nature of life in rural Red State America is so vastly different from that of urban Blue State America that in many ways its like two different countries. The perspectives on everything from commerce, to family values, to government and gun laws are a complete 180* difference from Chicago ,IL to Monteagle , KY. Many free state gun owners believe that cultural difference drives the legislative processes of the state, which means you guys are basically screwed unless you can import several million conservative expats and settle them in a way which can influence the California election process.

I am of the belief that the 2nd Amendment transcends political affiliation. In most places gun ownership and conservative politics go together, but in places like CA and IL that dynamic has to be broken out of sheer necessity. Unless the millions of liberals in California start valuing the 2nd Amendment they won't think anything of outlawing it, so you guys have to start changing minds instead of politics. I believe that's possible, but quite a few outside of CA's borders disagree. Time will prove which theory proves to be true.
85% of our state is so rural that if I dropped you out of a plane and said nothing that when you hit ground, you would never guess you were in CA.
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  #129  
Old 07-05-2012, 3:45 PM
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85% of our state is so rural that if I dropped you out of a plane and said nothing that when you hit ground, you would never guess you were in CA.
I would catch on quick when a California LEO put me in bracelets on landing for carrying a concealed firearm illegally. Im sure my 17 round magazine won't look good in front of the judge either.
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  #130  
Old 07-05-2012, 4:16 PM
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I would catch on quick when a California LEO put me in bracelets on landing for carrying a concealed firearm illegally. Im sure my 17 round magazine won't look good in front of the judge either.
No, not where I am. We have an "at best" 30 minute response time where I am. Not to mention possession of your mag is not prosecutable if you remain silent.
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  #131  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:22 AM
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With a bunch of CG'ers moving out of state, I applaud and respect their decisions, but...

At the rate things are going, it'd be only a temporary fix...

With the election on the horizon and the SCOTUS positions at stake (not just new, but changing opinions of old judges), we're gonna be in deep **** this time for sure.
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  #132  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:22 AM
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Double posts are back with a vengeance!
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  #133  
Old 07-19-2012, 2:45 PM
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taper: I live in Florida. Please enlighten us as to which "civil rights" the Sunshine State violates.
Well we don't have OC. OTOH we do have reciprocity with any state that honors our CWFL, and we allow all nonresidents to apply for a Florida CWFL. California has no legal way for nonresidents to carry. All this BS about abortions and growing pot are side issues for most people. The 2A is a far more fundamental right. No doubt Florida is a much more free state in areas that matter to the vast majority of Americans than California.
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  #134  
Old 07-19-2012, 5:06 PM
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No, not where I am. We have an "at best" 30 minute response time where I am. Not to mention possession of your mag is not prosecutable if you remain silent.
Neither is possession of that mag and the firearm its attached to prosecutable here. I can carry any handgun I wish , with any magazine size I wish, even a legally registered and tax stamped full auto pistol if I could afford it without being locked up .Its liberating to know that if I get stopped with a loaded 16 shot pistol on my hip I won't be in any trouble for it.

Ive been stopped a handful of times in SD while concealed carrying. At no time was I proned out at gunpoint and hit with the "OFFICER REQUESTS BACKUP" routine. That kind of uncivilized treatment won't happen out here without a crime actually taking place.
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  #135  
Old 07-19-2012, 6:18 PM
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Here is how I got some support from shooters in free states http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=665686

In my original post over there, I got all of the same BS, "California can suck it", etc. The mods over there actually stepped in and we re-posted it into a productive thread that actually got quite a few people to sign the StopSB249 petition. I think that the light bulb is starting to come on and at least some people out of state are beginning to realize that we all stand or fall together and if we fall, the too will eventually fall.

It is tough to change people's opinions, but if you are at least a bit eloquent, can use some logic and are polite, at least some of the people who think that way will have a change of heart.
I'm moving to Texas in three weeks. I plan on sending every Texan that will listen, to CalGuns so they can see what THEY need to do to protect their gun rights.... Although, Texans are pretty adamant about it already and have the laws to prove it. You can carry a loaded sidearm in your car as long as it's covered. They did this because they adopted a "Stand-your-ground" law and its pointless unless you can carry a loaded weapon in your car..... Common sense.

I have friends who have moved to KY (where I'm from) and they asked how to "fit in". I know people from KY do NOT take kindly to Californians. My advice to them AND my daughters has been:

To wave at everyone even if you don't know them.
Be friendly and outgoing to your neighbors. Never refuse good will from them. They are used to helping their neighbors out of neccessity..... That includes you.
Speak your mind kindly. One of the biggest issues they have with Californians is they think that Cali people speak from the side of their mouths. For the most part, they're right.
Have a thick skin. They WILL make jokes about where you're from, deal with it.
They still use ethnic slurs. Get used to it and keep your mouth shut. If it offends you, don't move there.
Don't go around acting like you're better or smarter than they are. You are not. As a matter of fact, after living here in the PRK for 20 years, I'd say the average Hillbilly has FAAAR more common sense than the average Californian. Comes from having to deal with poverty. Either living in it or seeing alot of it. "booksmarts" mean nothing to them, although most of them are far better educated than they appear.
Don't be phony, they'll pick up on it instantly. They're probably as good, or better at reading people than you are.
DON'T talk politics around them..... They don't like it.
If you're liberal. Keep it to yourself.
If you're an atheist, keep it to yourself.
If your neighbor invites you to church.... Go, whether you want to or not.
Act like you WANT to be part of the community. It may take a bit for them to warm up to you, but you'll never have better friends.

If any of this offends you, stay here. If you're willing to do "As the Romans do", you'll be fine.

Leaving California, and moving to just about anywhere else in the U.S. with the exception of just a few other places, is like moving to another country.

Look at it this way. We complain vehemently whenever someone moves to this country and refuses to assimilate. Same principle applies here.

I have lived in the following places:

Ohio.
Kentucky.
W. (By God!) Virginia.
Louisiana for a short time.
Nevada
California.

I have spent extended time in:

Texas.
Missouri.
Montana.
Oregon.
Washington.

With the exception of WA. and OR, You won't fair well acting like a Californian in any of the other states unless you live in a large city.

I have met a lot of fine people who are very down to earth here in california, however, that hasn't been my typical experience here.

Just sayin'

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  #136  
Old 07-19-2012, 9:03 PM
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Heh, obviously you haven't spent much time in NorCal above the cities. Not much different than this^^^
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  #137  
Old 07-19-2012, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
Neither is possession of that mag and the firearm its attached to prosecutable here. I can carry any handgun I wish , with any magazine size I wish, even a legally registered and tax stamped full auto pistol if I could afford it without being locked up .Its liberating to know that if I get stopped with a loaded 16 shot pistol on my hip I won't be in any trouble for it.

Ive been stopped a handful of times in SD while concealed carrying. At no time was I proned out at gunpoint and hit with the "OFFICER REQUESTS BACKUP" routine. That kind of uncivilized treatment won't happen out here without a crime actually taking place.
Not knocking SD but if it were so fantastic, you'd have a lot of people there. NO?
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  #138  
Old 07-19-2012, 9:36 PM
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Hello,

Tell you what: You tell me what you need me to do, within reason, and I will do my best to help out.

As for Liberals, I'm not one. However, I do hang out on the Liberal Gun Forum at times. Honestly, the majority are good folks.

They admit that we are better at the RKBA and that's a downfall of their chosen side.

However, most of what we say about them, they say about us! There is way more alike thinking than not.

They admit to having their kooks on that side, and we admit to having kooks on the Conservative side.

Surprisingly, most there are anti-government from what I've seen. They are for smaller government etc.

It's almost like "someone" is playing both ends against the middle... This is easily recognized if you have a child under 10.

Most seem to think the laws in Cali are ridiculous, too.

I'm sorry I went on the tangent. Just some things I've been thinking about. Keep the people occupied with ghost theories and misdirection and you can pull a rabbit out of your hat.

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  #139  
Old 07-19-2012, 10:52 PM
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Not knocking SD but if it were so fantastic, you'd have a lot of people there. NO?
By that standard of population,Los Angeles ought to be a beacon of civilization.
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  #140  
Old 07-20-2012, 11:15 AM
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The truth is for most Americans states like CA, HI, IL, NY are like visitng foreign countries when it comes to RTKBA ie a resident of Florida has just as much chance of legally carrying a firearm in those states as he would have in France or Mexico - none.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:20 AM
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Not knocking SD but if it were so fantastic, you'd have a lot of people there. NO?
People tend to gravitate toward places with warmer and/or milder climates. South Dakota has pretty extreme winters, but both Sioux Falls and Rapid City are very nice places, the Missouri River area is quite interesting in spots, and the Black Hills are grest for hiking, as are the Badlands. People in South Dakota are very friendly, much more so than in California.
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  #142  
Old 07-20-2012, 11:36 AM
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Not knocking SD but if it were so fantastic, you'd have a lot of people there. NO?
So, since you point out the area you live in is also sparsely populated, it sucks there too?
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  #143  
Old 08-08-2012, 6:25 PM
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Bumping because SB249 is a week away from a vote and we could REALLY use the help from the NRA and gun owners from across the nation right now.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall.
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  #144  
Old 08-08-2012, 7:30 PM
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We here on this forum didnt ask for the laws: we are simply out-voted by the major metropolitan areas of the state that have devolved ("progressed" for you lefties) into a permanent soylent green condition. The only states I am familiar with are AZ and UT, both of which have the attitude "leave your CA bull**** at the state line." What they dont see is that membership in the NRA is not sufficient in and of itself anymore. I dont know what the answer to your question is.
I'm not sure entirely what other states can do.

Other states can't help us "vote out" out our bad politicians, and other states can't do much to sway the thinking in ours - not really...

What am I missing that other states can actually do to help us?
The fact that CA - like any other state - can create its own laws, aren't we left with hoping for help from our own courts, the FED and not much else?

Perhaps this is part of what drives my thinking that we should all be united, under one flag and one set of laws. None of this one state does this, and another does something else. I figure we are all Americans, living in our geographical preference of our great nation. One nation that should be run as a whole, for real - without all the individual power plays..

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  #145  
Old 08-08-2012, 7:35 PM
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By that standard of population,Los Angeles ought to be a beacon of civilization.
Some people do think so - they must, surely?

Problem with us "people" is we are so capable of deciding things for ourselves.

These things don't always mesh or agree, and the you end up with what we have going on right now with our 2A issues.

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  #146  
Old 08-08-2012, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Perhaps this is part of what drives my thinking that we should all be united, under one flag and one set of laws. None of this one state does this, and another does something else. I figure we are all Americans, living in our geographical preference of our great nation. One nation that should be run as a whole, for real - without all the individual power plays.
What then, would be the purpose of having states at all?

Perhaps a better solution would be to allow states even more freedom to make their own laws. For example, in the extreme, State A could legalize shooting heroin while getting an abortion at a gay wedding and then hiring illegal aliens to clean up the mess.

Likewise, State B could make all those things felonies. People and businesses would then be free to choose which set of laws they wish to live and work under.
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  #147  
Old 08-09-2012, 6:43 AM
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What then, would be the purpose of having states at all?

Perhaps a better solution would be to allow states even more freedom to make their own laws. For example, in the extreme, State A could legalize shooting heroin while getting an abortion at a gay wedding and then hiring illegal aliens to clean up the mess.

Likewise, State B could make all those things felonies. People and businesses would then be free to choose which set of laws they wish to live and work under.
Well, since we are all here fighting something that CA has been trying to deem illegal that the FED says is fine...

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  #148  
Old 08-09-2012, 8:25 AM
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Bumping because SB249 is a week away from a vote and we could REALLY use the help from the NRA and gun owners from across the nation right now.

United We Stand, Divided We Fall.

As stated before, no one's holding a gun to the Legislatures' heads in passing this anti gun bill. The are venal politicians who are doing what they must to protect their personal interests;in the case of California, the fastest way to the next office in politics is to pass a gun control law. Clearly millions of people in CA think SB249 is a good law, or it wouldn't see the light of day.

Change that dynamic, and you guys might actually join the United States of America.
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  #149  
Old 08-09-2012, 9:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
As stated before, no one's holding a gun to the Legislatures' heads in passing this anti gun bill. The are venal politicians who are doing what they must to protect their personal interests;in the case of California, the fastest way to the next office in politics is to pass a gun control law. Clearly millions of people in CA think SB249 is a good law, or it wouldn't see the light of day.

Change that dynamic, and you guys might actually join the United States of America.
THIS IS THE POINT!!!!!!

We, meaning those who stand for the 2A, (and it seems we are a small number even on THIS board) are outgunned in terms of votes. There are a lot of people in this state that come from collectivist societies (even within our own country, i.e. NYC) that are already trained to not like guns, think guns and gun owners are bad people, and that they should be removed from society. They vote these people into office, so these people are doing the will of their constituents. We need the emotions of those people on OUR side, not just logic. You can't override emotion with logic. Fear of heights is not combatted by telling the person "This cable is safe enough to hold an elephant." They don't care. They are still emotionally paralyzed. We need the voters to be emotionally unafraid, or this will continue no matter how many lawsuits we file or injunctions we get.
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  #150  
Old 08-09-2012, 11:07 AM
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I just came back from (B)arfCom, after the **** I saw there I ain't going back.

Some people there (not all, a few were polite and sympathetic to our fight) wanted California to "fall in the ocean" and consider anyone from California "Fascist/Communist/(insert derogatory here) etc.".

I wanted to remind them that "What happens in California will happen to you too", but then I remembered that feeding trolls/idiots/deadbeats was a bad idea...


But it got me thinking about this....

How exactly do we enlist aid/support from the "Free" states, and (preferably nice/polite) Gun owners all over the country?

We didn't ASK for our laws to happen, things happened beyond our control (at the time) and we got screwed big time for it.

But apparently some "gun owners" are so selfish and ignorant that they'd be willing to throw honest gun-loving people like me under the bus to save their own hide/guns just because I hail from (was born and raised too) the State of California...

It makes me sick just thinking about it that there are people like that in our society...

Any CalGunners that live in free states care to chime in? How does your state view us?

This applies even to CalGunners that moved out of California because of the laws.

Despite what "some" people think, you aren't cowards in my book, in fact I would have done the same thing if I had the resources too and if I didn't have family ties and very close friends here.

Although I will eventually move out of California (even if laws improve, I've always wanted to live in Vegas), I will continue the fight even after being "freed"!

You shouldn't turn your back on the anti-gunners, especially right now since they have little support

But that could change at anytime
I live in Vegas, my wife is from California. We both want to leave Vegas and move elsewhere. She wants to move back to Cali but I say "No Way"! Honestly the weather is the only reasons I would like to live there. The strict gun laws prohibit me from bring just about my entire firearm collection. The guns laws you Cali guys have to deal with are such BS! When I read a thread about your struggle to fight a new gun law such as SB249 or the Yee BS I sign the petitions and pass the info to everyone I know all across this nation. Everybody responds "Hell Ya I will sign the petition or Vote in the poll"! Gun owners are the same all across the board no matter what state you live in.

These politians try to pass strict gun laws, ban high cap mags or bring the assault weapon ban back and in reality they are just affecting "Law Abiding Citizens". The criminals don't give a **** about gun laws. You would think after the Aurora shooting they would make it mandatory to have a CCW! That would have a more positive impact than banning Hi-Cap mags or purchasing 1,000 rounds of ammo at a time. Where is the common sense?

I'm a member on Nevada Shooters under the same name. Anything I can do to help or pass along information just let me know. We all need to fight the fight no matter what state you reside in.


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Last edited by WOLFN8TR; 08-09-2012 at 11:15 AM..
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  #151  
Old 09-06-2013, 5:35 PM
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Bumping with Colorado about to go one way or the other as far as the Recall elections go...

Maybe they've finally noticed that they aren't invulnerable to Liberal gun-grabbers. No state is.
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  #152  
Old 09-06-2013, 7:10 PM
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If you were drinking in a bar, the unspoken rules were to never
bring up politics or religion. I suppose we need to add 2A rights as well.

I don't think any Californian is surprised to hear that everyone else hates us.
"We did this to ourselves". C&R sales, ammo sales and even FFL 1 transfers are already shutting down.
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  #153  
Old 09-07-2013, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by OneFunGuy View Post
If you were drinking in a bar, the unspoken rules were to never
bring up politics or religion. I suppose we need to add 2A rights as well.

I don't think any Californian is surprised to hear that everyone else hates us.
"We did this to ourselves". C&R sales, ammo sales and even FFL 1 transfers are already shutting down.
Well, I don't drink. Period (water only!). But I guess the same rule applies...
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  #154  
Old 09-07-2013, 3:36 PM
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Tip O'Neill, who knew a few things about politics, said

"All politics is local"

He's right.
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  #155  
Old 09-08-2013, 5:58 AM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
Then how come everyone moved here to make us the most populated state?
Jobs and money..same reason people move anywhere really.
But this will change as the middle class dries up, taxes go up further and cost of living increases year after year...

Only people moving here then will be those at the bottom who have nothing to lose by moving here and those who have no other options( forced to relocate for job, education or family).


Anyways people have hated California since the 70's ( back then it was water we " stole" from their states) and have always been waiting for the big one to drop us into the pacific
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