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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #241  
Old 09-06-2013, 2:16 PM
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buy ammo out of state is the solution. as of now they cannot stop people from driving out of state to get ammo. and looks like a lot more than RAW owners will be affected by this bill.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

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  #242  
Old 09-06-2013, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
buy ammo out of state is the solution. as of now they cannot stop people from driving out of state to get ammo. and looks like a lot more than RAW owners will be affected by this bill.
That agriculture checkpoint on the 10 will probably be turned into an ammunition checkpoint.
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  #243  
Old 09-06-2013, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by PKrupa View Post
That agriculture checkpoint on the 10 will probably be turned into an ammunition checkpoint.
doubt it.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

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  #244  
Old 09-06-2013, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKrupa View Post
That agriculture checkpoint on the 10 will probably be turned into an ammunition checkpoint.
Just drive through on Sunday, they are closed.
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  #245  
Old 09-06-2013, 5:46 PM
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I can see it coming... "US Citizens need a visa to CA. All others can walk in"
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  #246  
Old 09-06-2013, 9:38 PM
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So, except 47 all others are "Assembly - Third reading." I've also looked at "how things work" link, but still not sure what this means in the context of probability of these surviving/dying ... Thanks.
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  #247  
Old 09-07-2013, 6:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Mavashi View Post
So, except 47 all others are "Assembly - Third reading." I've also looked at "how things work" link, but still not sure what this means in the context of probability of these surviving/dying ... Thanks.
I found this on Wikipedia:

Quote:
Third reading[edit source | editbeta]

A third reading is the stage of a legislative process in which a bill is read with all amendments and given final approval by a legislative body. In legislatures whose procedures are based on those of the Westminster system, the third reading occurs after the bill has been amended by committee and considered for amendment at report stage.
In bicameral legislatures, if the bill passes the third reading, it is then sent to the other chamber of parliament to start the process again at first reading in that chamber. Once the bill has passed third reading in both chambers, it is sent on for promulgation, such as Royal Assent in the Westminster system or signing by the president or governor in the U.S. model. In a unicameral legislature, after passing third reading in the sole chamber, the bill goes on directly for promulgation.
In the United States Senate, after the third reading has been ordered, there is still a vote on final passage.
In Ireland, the third reading is referred to as the "Report Final Stage". These are normally taken together. The question at final stage is "that the bill do now pass", as for the third reading in some other Westminster systems. When it passes one house, it is sent to the second house and enters at Second Stage. After both houses have passed the bill, it is sent to the President of Ireland to be signed into law. If there is a question regarding the constitutionality of the bill, the president may refer it to the Supreme Court of Ireland but otherwise may not withhold assent.
So it sounds like after the third reading they vote to pass or not pass.

My predictions is they'll all pass. I doubt they'll all get signed by Brown though.
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  #248  
Old 09-07-2013, 6:40 AM
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So how is SB 396 even legal? Seems like it is illegal taking to me and will not stand up in court.
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  #249  
Old 09-07-2013, 6:58 AM
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So how is SB 396 even legal? Seems like it is illegal taking to me and will not stand up in court.
the point is not that it's legal it's attempting set an example that they can do what ever they want with no repercussions in losing their seats and also to one up NY of course.

legality means nothing to these people only control.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

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  #250  
Old 09-07-2013, 7:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Emdawg View Post
Ummmm... why is that still loaded?

Imbeciles probably don't even know how to disassemble it.


Man, only if Feinstein or Steinburg picked that up and swept the reporters with it.
That is what I was thinking. They probably didn't know how to get the conversion cylinder out to unload it. I don't see a zip tie or anything around the hammer, either. A trigger lock at least would have been prudent in the interest of safety.
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  #251  
Old 09-07-2013, 5:57 PM
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I went to Home Depot recently to buy a piece of plywood and a can of paint for project. I found out that CA now charges a "fee" on paint and lumber. This is in addition to the state tax they already collect. So even if they don't make any money and ammo sales/permits they will just find more ways to gouge us all with even more fees and taxes.
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  #252  
Old 09-07-2013, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jarrodp View Post
I went to Home Depot recently to buy a piece of plywood and a can of paint for project. I found out that CA now charges a "fee" on paint and lumber. This is in addition to the state tax they already collect. So even if they don't make any money and ammo sales/permits they will just find more ways to gouge us all with even more fees and taxes.
that is the DemoKrat mantra tax and tax and then fees and more fees.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

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  #253  
Old 09-07-2013, 9:31 PM
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Don't you know the tax is taxable too!
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  #254  
Old 09-08-2013, 3:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
So how is SB 396 even legal? Seems like it is illegal taking to me and will not stand up in court.
By their understanding it does not constitute illegal taking for the following reasons:-

(1) An illegal taking is taking without just compensation.
(2) Owners of > 10 rounds magazines have the opportunity to be "justly compensated" should they seek such compensation, by either:-
  • Selling the magazines to an out of state resident before the date after th passage of the law but before the date they become illegal.
  • Sell the magazine to a license firearms dealer in California after the date the law is passed but before the date they become illegal.
If they choose to destroy the magazines or surrender them to law enforcement, it is a "voluntary" act of not seeking compensation by the aforementioned means.
An illegal taking challenge would only be valid if the law came into effect and was retroactive without a grace period for out of state liquidation orr in state sale to a licensed dealer.

I am not saying I agree with the above, just that this is how the justify it as not being against the takings clause.
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  #255  
Old 09-08-2013, 5:34 AM
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Guys, it really a bad idea to continue to discuss these bills in detail before they pass the legislature. I don't know why some of you don't understand this.
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  #256  
Old 09-08-2013, 8:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKrupa View Post
That agriculture checkpoint on the 10 will probably be turned into an ammunition checkpoint.
There is no ****ing way they can control what you can or cannot go out of state to purchase. Further more they are not going to set up a boarder style check point on every entrance to California with X-ray machines, dogs, lots of officers, all the **** they have at the US/Mexico boarder.

At least if the ammo law passes I'll have a excuse to go to Vegas and get some penny hoes....













Kidding...
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  #257  
Old 09-08-2013, 9:13 AM
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These examples of taking and taxing are a clear sign that we are living in a purely socialist state where the economic model is so irreparably broken, that it mandates stealing from the only productive members in society in order to prop up its untenable social policies.

As a result, an economic and social reckoning will come in this state. The engine can't run without gas, and we're on fumes right now.
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  #258  
Old 09-08-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SaltyDogUSMC View Post
These examples of taking and taxing are a clear sign that we are living in a purely socialist state where the economic model is so irreparably broken, that it mandates stealing from the only productive members in society in order to prop up its untenable social policies.

As a result, an economic and social reckoning will come in this state. The engine can't run without gas, and we're on fumes right now.
Ha, there are plenty of tax payer pockets to pick, they are not going anywhere, besides, they love the weather. I even hear that said right here on this site.
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  #259  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:17 PM
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Well, I'm taking 50 jobs with me to Texas in early 2015. I'd rather have my liberty with a less attractive climate than the other way around.
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  #260  
Old 09-09-2013, 8:45 AM
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All you people loudly stating how you are going to get around the potential ammo bill are just making sure that our Legislature will address each issue you raise. It is stated over and over that you should not give them any help, but for some reason certain posters just have to keep throwing gasoline on the fire.

State services and operations cost money to run. If additional sources of income can be found that will offset the cost that just allows them to add more people. If there is a byproduct of the process whereby citizens are deprived of their right to own firearms, that is just frosting on the cake.

I'm not going to be more descriptive.
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  #261  
Old 09-09-2013, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdd View Post
Guys, it really a bad idea to continue to discuss these bills in detail before they pass the legislature. I don't know why some of you don't understand this.
Last day to amends the bills has passed. People want to be informed so they can make the right preperations.
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  #262  
Old 09-09-2013, 2:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mrdd View Post
Guys, it really a bad idea to continue to discuss these bills in detail before they pass the legislature. I don't know why some of you don't understand this.
Remember that Democrats have a super majority in both assembly and senate. Governor is also Democrat. Therefore the probability of these passing are very high.
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  #263  
Old 09-09-2013, 2:28 PM
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Its over in the state legislature. All the Billa will pass. Our only hope now is to get an injunction from a high level conservative judge on both the state and federal level. Scary times, citizens.
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  #264  
Old 09-09-2013, 2:37 PM
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If you look at national poll numbers, people are disgusted with the liberal agenda in nearly every category of leadership:
Economy
Foreign Policy
Domestic Policy
Why, with all of our problems, are these morons focusing on the inert subject of gun control?
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  #265  
Old 09-09-2013, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Goop View Post
Remember that Democrats have a super majority in both assembly and senate. Governor is also Democrat. Therefore the probability of these passing are very high.
correct me if I'm wrong I believe they lost that supermajority in the Senate this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyDogUSMC View Post
If you look at national poll numbers, people are disgusted with the liberal agenda in nearly every category of leadership:
Economy
Foreign Policy
Domestic Policy
Why, with all of our problems, are these morons focusing on the inert subject of gun control?
it's all about CONTROL that's why. they want to let us know who really is in charge and it's not the people.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

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  #266  
Old 09-10-2013, 3:28 PM
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The worst ones passed. The rest don't matter in context. This state is a lost cause.
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  #267  
Old 09-10-2013, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
So how is SB 396 even legal? Seems like it is illegal taking to me and will not stand up in court.
OK, this has been covered many times, but here's the reasoning...

It is not an illegal taking because the owner of high capacity magazines will have the opportunity and the time to:-
  • Remove the magazines from the borders of California (without actually relinquishing ownership)
  • Sell the magazines to any individual outside California for fair market value.
  • Sell the magazine to a licensed dealer within California for fair market value.
  • Destroy them
  • Surrender them to local law enforcement for confiscation and destruction
Since time and deference is afforded for the export and in-state sale at whatever the market price is, this qualifies as fair compensation. The government can seize property or deny its ownership or usage, if fair compensation is afforded. Eg. the government cannot seize your house and give you nothing. It cannot seize your house and give you $1 (because it is not the fair market value). It can however seize your house and pay you the appraised value. The government cannot seize your car and give you nothing. It cannot seize your and give you $50. It can however ban your type of car and demand that you sell it out of state or to an in-state dealer for the purpose of export.

Generally speaking most federal and state laws include a grand fathering provision not because it wouldn't be constitutional otherwise, but because to do otherwise would be viewed negatively in the eyes of public opinion as government bullying or harshness and hurts goodwill from the affect people or their supports. In this particular case, they are not interested in the goodwill or support from gun owners. And, yes, they have every intent on bullying and making the harshest laws against us. We are, the enemy.

Last edited by dwightlooi; 09-10-2013 at 5:20 PM..
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  #268  
Old 09-10-2013, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chris View Post
correct me if I'm wrong I believe they lost that supermajority in the Senate this year.

it's all about CONTROL that's why. they want to let us know who really is in charge and it's not the people.
Wrong, they still have it. There are 40 seats in the State Senate. With the election of Andy Vidak (R) democrats have 27 seats to 12 Republicans, with one vacant. Regardless of who fills the vacant seat, 27 is a super majority. But, they are ONE seat from losing it. The Republicans will need to capture the vacant seat and flip ONE democrat held seat.

If Brown vetoes though, they'll need to be completely united on a party line vote to overwrite. If just one of the 27 democrats abstain or vote no on an overwrite. They cannot overwrite the Veto. We can count on all 12 Republican votes to be nays.

Also, they don't have 54 votes in the 80-seat State Assembly. Most of these bills passed with 42~44 votes. Sure, there are a bunch of democrats who were MIA from the vote -- and would have voted yes if the vote were even close -- but it is unlikely they can muster 54 votes to overwrite their own party's governor. For what it's worth, not all Democratic votes were yeses in the passage of these bills. There were 2~3 nays out of their ranks.

Anyway, for what it is worth a Brown Veto has a decent chance of sticking.

Last edited by dwightlooi; 09-10-2013 at 5:40 PM..
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  #269  
Old 09-10-2013, 5:32 PM
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No cares about the legal hair splitting of what government justified taking is it isn't. We all know its morally reprehensible that we have been made into criminals subject to unconstitutional property seizures. Its wrong no matter what excuse they propagate. Its the Nuremberg Laws of our times.
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  #270  
Old 09-10-2013, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Yemff View Post
Once I got over the initial shock at the scope of all these bills, this is my second thought. They are going to pretty much kill gun business in this state, at least anything ebr or the like related, which is pretty much everything these days.
Thats the long term plan here in California. Make it so so difficult and expensive to the consumer that we will all decide to give up the hobby. Its got nothing to do with crime or safety, its just one state participating in the disarmament of all US citizens. Just ask Australia.
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  #271  
Old 09-10-2013, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by odysseus View Post
Very sad how there is so little debate in California media on this. For the most part it is either silent, or tacitly endorsing them. Highly frustrating the lack of critical thinking on civil rights, that people are so willing to put blindfolds on and just jump into the abyss.
Thats because the media is run by liberals and democrats. This is to be expected. Have you noticed the over whelming amount of media coverage EVERY TIME there is something involving a gun? All of this violent new coverage is all in support of gun control. Making sure that low informed, weak minded Americans are downed in anti-gun media coverage. We will all loose here in this state, I predict that everything will pass and be signed into law. Pretty soon I wont be able to trap shoot on some nice weekend day.
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  #272  
Old 09-10-2013, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKrupa View Post
That agriculture checkpoint on the 10 will probably be turned into an ammunition checkpoint.
OMG! You're probably right on that. Get ready for ammo check points, like those un-constitutional DUI check points.
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  #273  
Old 09-10-2013, 9:10 PM
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Who is going to enforce these laws, the brown shirts?
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  #274  
Old 09-10-2013, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goop View Post
Remember that Democrats have a super majority in both assembly and senate. Governor is also Democrat. Therefore the probability of these passing are very high.
They no longer have a super majority--Republican Vidac won this summer in the south San Joaquin valley. Remember?
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  #275  
Old 09-10-2013, 11:42 PM
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Have our voices heard to gov brown. He is our only hope as of now.
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  #276  
Old 09-11-2013, 9:25 AM
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Jerry Brown as our only hope. That is one scary ****ing statement.
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  #277  
Old 09-11-2013, 9:44 AM
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Jerry Brown as our only hope. That is one scary ****ing statement.
sure is. going to be sending lots of letters and calling his office everyday from here until Oct.13 or he vetoes or signs all the laws.
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Public Safety Chairman Reggie Jones Sawyer, D-Los Angeles said, “This is California; we don’t pay too much attention to the Constitution,”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A

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  #278  
Old 09-11-2013, 12:47 PM
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Infringe: definition


in·fringe [ in frínj ]Infringe: definition

1.disobey or disregard something: to fail to obey a law or regulation or observe the terms of an agreement
2. encroach on somebody's rights or property: to take over land, rights, privileges, or activities that belong to somebody else, especially in a minor or gradual way

I understand that posting the actual definition is a stretch but can't all of these pending laws be shown to violate our second amendment rights?
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  #279  
Old 09-11-2013, 12:54 PM
SaltyDogUSMC SaltyDogUSMC is offline
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This particular brand of high potency liberal doesn't care in the least about the constitutional legality of their rabid policies. We are scheduled for political genicide.
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  #280  
Old 09-11-2013, 3:29 PM
SaltyDogUSMC SaltyDogUSMC is offline
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Stupid question: all bolt action rifles with detachable mags are NOT effected by SB374?
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