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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 09-05-2013, 3:55 PM
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Lightbulb Project to Increase CCWs in CA! (For SF Bay Area, see post #28)



IIRC, in most Shall Issue states, between 3-5% of the adult population usually gets their CCW. I think getting 5% of CAians (1 out of 20 adults) in "virtual Shall Issue" (vSI) counties issued a CCW would be a worthwhile goal.

To that end, we should make a list of EVERY gun shop, gun club, and gun range in the vSI counties. Organize them acc to location. We'll want each location to have, oh, 3 volunteers from here who will visit it 2x each month to make sure it is supplied w/the business card fliers. Each volunteer may promise to visit, say, two locations near where they live and two near where they work every two weeks (e.g., on their commute, while running errands, etc). This is to make sure they're supplied w/the fliers for the sales people to give w/every sales receipt, or to hand out to members (IPSC, IDPA, PPC), or to leave out for people to take themselves. Of course, # of business card fliers for each location, how often any particular location needs to be resupplied, etc. are all adjusted acc to experience.

I have no idea how many volunteers it will take to have 3 people cover every shop, club, and range.

Print these "business card fliers" on plain printer paper using MS Word, in 2 column format. You should be able to fit at least 10 on a single sheet of paper. You don't want the "business cards" so small that people will lose them or not notice them (e.g., a fortune cookie's fortune strip of paper). Standard business card size is best, or just slightly smaller. A title in bold italics like "Free Handgun Carry Permit Info!" will catch their eye. The fliers will have brief statement in easy to read, sans serif front that "If you want to learn about getting a CA concealed handgun carry permit, visit (and then give a URL/web address) for free info." Just enough to grab their attention and make them want to visit the site.

Gun shop/range owners should be for this because the more people who carry, the more guns and ammo sales and the more people who will want to practice.

Carrying a half dozen around in your wallet and a couple of dozen in your car's glove box lets you give them out to those you talk to vs them having to rely upon their memory, and to stick under windshield wiper blades of cars you see w/military, hunting, shooting, NRA, Tea Party, Ron Paul, Gadsden flag, or similar decals.

The website the cards direct people to may be a dedicated webpage here or a separate website (CGF? gotcarry.org?) that will take them step-by-step thru the process and have links to official state documents/info/applications. Simple and user-friendly are key.

This gives activists something positive to do while we wait for the fed courts to, hopefully, give us Shall Issue nationwide, either before July 4th 2014 or, at latest, July 4th, 2015. If we don't win that in the fed cts/SCOTUS, that means the only way we'll get it is politically. As you can see from the below animation, not a single state that has gone Shall Issue has EVER gone back! We have nothing to lose and everything to gain by undertaking something like I've described. The more people who have CCWs, the more people who have "skin in the game," a vested interest in defending our RKBA.


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  #2  
Old 09-05-2013, 4:08 PM
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You would think that by common sense and as an easy means of obtaining CCW fees, California would pull it's head out of it's rear and finally go to "Shall Issue".
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2013, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Swagman00 View Post
You would think that by common sense and as an easy means of obtaining CCW fees, California would pull it's head out of it's rear and finally go to "Shall Issue".
Common sense and California government are mutually exclusive. Therefore.....
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Old 09-05-2013, 4:29 PM
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While well intentioned,this approach will backfire for the following reasons.

One,the reason CA is discretionary issue can be summed up by its large urban population.One which is fundamentally opposed to any use of guns by anyone except the police and military.What will their likely reaction be to the reality of other ,non urban Californians toting scary guns all over Los Angeles and Sacramento?

Yeah.Bye Bye Sheriffs issuing permits.Hello,evil Assembly bill proposing judiciary approval New Jersey style.

Problem number two involves the process of how states went shall issue.People didn't campaign for shall issue because they necessarily wanted to carry a gun.As you've observed,maybe 5% bother to get a CCW permit.You're not gonna change the voting base with that approach.
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Old 09-05-2013, 4:58 PM
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It's crazy how we are the only state West of New Jersey that's not at least shall issue.
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  #6  
Old 09-05-2013, 5:11 PM
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It's crazy how we are the only state West of New Jersey that's not at least shall issue.
You forgot Maryland.
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  #7  
Old 09-05-2013, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
While well intentioned,this approach will backfire for the following reasons.

One,the reason CA is discretionary issue can be summed up by its large urban population.One which is fundamentally opposed to any use of guns by anyone except the police and military.What will their likely reaction be to the reality of other ,non urban Californians toting scary guns all over Los Angeles and Sacramento?

Yeah.Bye Bye Sheriffs issuing permits.Hello,evil Assembly bill proposing judiciary approval New Jersey style.
This is already the case: per CGF (http://www.scribd.com/doc/128329814/...by-county-2011), there has been an increase in CA permits between 19 and 36% between 2010 and 2011. I'm just suggesting we help push things in that direction even further and faster. Not suggesting radio commercials (Does anyone remember those radio commercials, IIRC, in south SF Bay Area back in '05/'06?), or anything that would get the mass of sheeple upset.

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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
Problem number two involves the process of how states went shall issue.People didn't campaign for shall issue because they necessarily wanted to carry a gun.As you've observed,maybe 5% bother to get a CCW permit.You're not gonna change the voting base with that approach.
What we can do is ensure that vSI county elects an anti CCW sheriff in the future by building the base of CCWers in that county. Those people will be fighters/activists to protect their CCWs by making sure an anti does not get elected. A dedicated 5% that are willing to donate, volunteer and vote can easily swing an election. The sooner we start, the sooner more vSI counties are safe.

The major urban sheriffs want goodies to dole out to their friends (incl Sacto politicians) and supporters. IOW, there's virtually ZERO chance of this blowing back in our faces and going for judicial issuance (no more goodies for wealthy donors, celebrities, politicians), or No Issue (esp after IL going from No Issue to Shall Issue).

Last edited by Paladin; 09-05-2013 at 5:28 PM..
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Old 09-05-2013, 6:13 PM
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You forgot Maryland.
I actually forgot Hawaii as well lol. But I meant Maryland, not NJ my geography is not that great haha.
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I want Blood for Oil. Heck I want Blood for Oil over hand wringing sentiment!
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Old 09-05-2013, 6:47 PM
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Getting a permit and carrying brings the gun issue home in a very personal way.

Once someone gets that permission slip, they will be more likely to fight to keep it.
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Old 09-05-2013, 6:50 PM
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I cant believe how many states were no issue and for how long...

And how fast they all flipped.
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Old 09-06-2013, 1:33 AM
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I think we are on the upside. There has been sweeping pro gun rights legislation across the nation in the past years, especially with ccw. It's definitely back and forth but I think our allies are winning. Just because these Communists introduce new bills all the time doesn't mean they are winning, it just means that they are bold. We are doing things the smart way. Be patient guys.
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Old 09-06-2013, 3:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
This is already the case: per CGF (http://www.scribd.com/doc/128329814/...by-county-2011), there has been an increase in CA permits between 19 and 36% between 2010 and 2011. I'm just suggesting we help push things in that direction even further and faster. Not suggesting radio commercials (Does anyone remember those radio commercials, IIRC, in south SF Bay Area back in '05/'06?), or anything that would get the mass of sheeple upset.

What we can do is ensure that vSI county elects an anti CCW sheriff in the future by building the base of CCWers in that county. Those people will be fighters/activists to protect their CCWs by making sure an anti does not get elected. A dedicated 5% that are willing to donate, volunteer and vote can easily swing an election. The sooner we start, the sooner more vSI counties are safe.

The major urban sheriffs want goodies to dole out to their friends (incl Sacto politicians) and supporters. IOW, there's virtually ZERO chance of this blowing back in our faces and going for judicial issuance (no more goodies for wealthy donors, celebrities, politicians), or No Issue (esp after IL going from No Issue to Shall Issue).
Look at New Jersey and New York City.Both places technically permit CCW.In practice ,youre not getting one unless you've got pull or were a public attorney or police officer.There's a wide gray area between "may actually issue" and "no way in hell issue" even though on paper the CCW laws of California and New Jersey are the same.
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Old 09-06-2013, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
IIRC, in most Shall Issue states, between 3-5% of the adult population usually gets their CCW. I think getting 5% of CAians (1 out of 20 adults) in "virtual Shall Issue" (vSI) counties issued a CCW would be a worthwhile goal.
I'd like to address the introduction of this terminology- 'virtual shall issue'. Stop using it. It is a meaningless bull**** term to make gun owners feel better in precisely the same way 'assault weapon' makes anti-gunners feel better.

There are 58 counties in California. There isn't an issuing agency that is 'shall issue' because 'may issue' is the law and 'Constitutional' 'virtual shall issue' sheriffs are full of **** if they follow it. Issuing agencies in this regard can be seperated into 'permissive', 'restrictive' and 'non-issuing'.

Even permissive counties like Shasta, Tehama, Trinity, Placer, El Dorado et al, inject their discretion into the process of licensing. The true test to discern the difference between 'shall issue' and 'may issue' is that shall issue agencies do not sit you down for an interview to look you in the eye, to judge your worthiness.

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Originally Posted by SanPedroShooter View Post
Getting a permit and carrying brings the gun issue home in a very personal way.

Once someone gets that permission slip, they will be more likely to fight to keep it.
That may be true, if one can obtain the 'permission slip'. The reality is, that getting it and doing everything to keep it, has the effect of restraining your behavior to an unwritten standard that the issuing agency now has the ability to impose upon you, whether or not it relates to the carry of a concealed firearm. In other words, you are the issuing agencies 'boy', and you do what they tell you, or you they will revoke your party favor.

Once it is revoked, the fight is worse than being in a restrictive or non-issuing agencies jurisdiction, especially if you do not have the resources to seek an appeal or legal remedy.

I dont really see how that helps advance issuance, frankly.

If the number of license holders is to be expanded, it will need to be organized on a county by county basis, offering assistance to applicants to apply in the manner proscribed by law.... Not according to unlawful mandates of the individual issuing agencies. And certainly these county organizations should hold the Sheriffs and Police Chiefs accountable by knowing the law and process as well or better than they do. This means in part, writing letters to both the issuing agencies and local instructors when a defect in their process or instruction comes to your attention and you mean to correct it.

At some point, those permissive issuing agencies, must be put to the test to eliminate the interview process altogether. This is the single most time consuming component of the 'may issue' process besides the DOJ footdragging on returning background checks, and has no meaningful contribution as a public safety measure or crime preventative.

No interview. No appointment to schedule or wait for. More licenses get processed faster. More licensees on the streets.
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Old 09-06-2013, 2:52 PM
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Default California's "MAY" issue system is a joke...

...though I know that since only through the grace of God can a CCW be granted in California is incrementally better than no CCW.:roll

Post back when you can get a License to Carry by submitting an application with your money, waiting a month or 2, maybe 3 at most for a background check, and then picking up the license or getting it in the mail.

Moral character, good cause, interview with a cop, psychological testing, cops interviewing neighbors and/or employers, etc., are nothing to be thankful for.

-hanko
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Old 09-06-2013, 4:18 PM
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You are going way too far, 3/4's of those who belong to this forum are afraid to even apply because they have been told to wait. You should start there...we need a very simple initiative and poll:
Do you live in CA?
What County?
Do you belong to the NRA?
Have you applied for a permit?
Do you have a permit?
I would suspect a very low application rate....
Once you fix that and show people it is working, or those recalcitrant counties are being sued, you will see progress and a snowball effect.
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Old 09-06-2013, 7:41 PM
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It's not gonna matter if no one can buy anmo or legally own a magazine.
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Old 09-11-2013, 7:51 AM
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Originally Posted by TheRedWolf View Post
I think we are on the upside. There has been sweeping pro gun rights legislation across the nation in the past years, especially with ccw. It's definitely back and forth but I think our allies are winning. Just because these Communists introduce new bills all the time doesn't mean they are winning, it just means that they are bold. We are doing things the smart way. Be patient guys.
Sorry, but by the bills that were passed this week, in CA we are losing. When our best hope is a veto by Gov. Jerry Brown, we are definitely losing.

Even where we've "won," we can never rest on our laurels since nutcases will continue to kill innocents and the anti MSM and anti politicians will continue to exploit those tragedies to push anti legislation.
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Old 09-11-2013, 8:06 AM
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I'd like to address the introduction of this terminology- 'virtual shall issue'. Stop using it. It is a meaningless bull**** term to make gun owners feel better in precisely the same way 'assault weapon' makes anti-gunners feel better.

<yada, yada, yada>
Um, sorry about getting your panties in a bunch. Feel free to call it what you want, just as I will.

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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
I dont really see how that helps advance issuance, frankly.

If the number of license holders is to be expanded, it will need to be organized on a county by county basis, offering assistance to applicants <snip>
I should have mentioned that not only will increasing the number of CCWs in a county help ensure that pro-CCW sheriffs get elected at the county level, but it will also get more people in the legislative districts in that county interested in RKBA legislation at the state level, and thus help in Sacto by possibly making RKBA an issue in state Assembly and Senate races (or recalls, per what happened in Colorado this week).

All of the things you mentioned that need to get eliminated: I agree. But the project to increase the # of CCWs statewide should NOT wait until that happens. But can happen at the same time as separate projects.
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Old 09-11-2013, 8:15 AM
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If I had something that would pass the SD County Sheriff as good cause, I'd be there in a heartbeat! Even a CCW instructor told me to rent a cheap apt somewhere would they would issue in CA, before trying here in San Diego!!

Other than self-preservation, I got nuthin...and yes, that's good enough for me! (Not the nuthin, the self-preservation
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Old 09-11-2013, 8:17 AM
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
...though I know that since only through the grace of God can a CCW be granted in California is incrementally better than no CCW.:roll

Post back when you can get a License to Carry by submitting an application with your money, waiting a month or 2, maybe 3 at most for a background check, and then picking up the license or getting it in the mail.

Moral character, good cause, interview with a cop, psychological testing, cops interviewing neighbors and/or employers, etc., are nothing to be thankful for.

-hanko
hanko, if you had cked out the CGF link I posted above (here it is again: http://www.scribd.com/doc/128329814/...by-county-2011), you would see that there are between 32.6k and 37.5k CCWers in CA right now! While that may be of no help to you personally (as it is no help to me ), don't dismiss it as being no better than No Issue.

The rest of your post is about wanting Shall Issue. Believe me, I want it too. But is there ANYTHING we can do that is worthwhile, constructive, and doesn't cost much in time, money & effort in the mean time and is doable? I say "yes", the project that I've described fits all of those criteria.

FWIW, IIRC, the law re. psychological testing was changed so that the can only require it of "civilians" if they require it of ALL civilians (think Feinstein, Perata, Stallone, and Sean Penn as well as fat cat donors).
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Old 09-11-2013, 8:23 AM
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Originally Posted by flyonwall View Post
You are going way too far, 3/4's of those who belong to this forum are afraid to even apply because they have been told to wait. You should start there...we need a very simple initiative and poll:
Do you live in CA?
What County?
Do you belong to the NRA?
Have you applied for a permit?
Do you have a permit?
I would suspect a very low application rate....
Once you fix that and show people it is working, or those recalcitrant counties are being sued, you will see progress and a snowball effect.
Most of the counties readily issue CCWs, but unfortunately, most of the population does not live in most of the counties....

Applying in a county where you know you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting issued a permit does not seem like a wise investment of time, money and effort. Wisdom, not cowardice, is why most here haven't applied. Why stuff an anti sheriff's coffers w/your $$$ just to be turned down?

If an anti sheriff's mailbox gets stuffed w/checks from a bunch of applicants, he'll just laugh all the way to the bank after dropping off a bunch of denial letters at the post office.

Last edited by Paladin; 09-11-2013 at 8:33 AM..
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Old 09-11-2013, 8:59 AM
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Default Public Education is key

I find this to be one of the best topics I have read in a long time. I have rented a booth along with CRPA for the last two home and garden shows in Solano County. At the booth all I do is hand out CCW applications and tell people how easy it is to get a CCW. There is also a seminar offered in completing the packet and GC statements. The response I hear most are that you can't get a CCW in California.

What my experience has shown me is people don't take the time to go through the process. I've handed out over 200 applications and only seen 14 people attend the seminar from the home and garden shows. I don't take that as a deterant as I readily pay my part of the booth and happily will stand there handing out applications and trying to educate the public.

The outdoor show has been a great venue as there are thousands of people who attend and suprisingly many are willing to listen. Some join the CRPA and yes there is always the one or two anti gun owers who say stupid things.

What is needed is more folks having informational booths at these types of events Vs gun shows. We need to target folks outside the gun community and educate them and offer services to make applying for the CCW easier.
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Old 09-11-2013, 9:19 AM
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Originally Posted by workin it View Post
I find this to be one of the best topics I have read in a long time. I have rented a booth along with CRPA for the last two home and garden shows in Solano County. At the booth all I do is hand out CCW applications and tell people how easy it is to get a CCW. There is also a seminar offered in completing the packet and GC statements. The response I hear most are that you can't get a CCW in California.

What my experience has shown me is people don't take the time to go through the process. I've handed out over 200 applications and only seen 14 people attend the seminar from the home and garden shows. I don't take that as a deterant as I readily pay my part of the booth and happily will stand there handing out applications and trying to educate the public.

The outdoor show has been a great venue as there are thousands of people who attend and suprisingly many are willing to listen. Some join the CRPA and yes there is always the one or two anti gun owers who say stupid things.

What is needed is more folks having informational booths at these types of events Vs gun shows. We need to target folks outside the gun community and educate them and offer services to make applying for the CCW easier.
Send one this way please!
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by workin it View Post
I find this to be one of the best topics I have read in a long time. I have rented a booth along with CRPA for the last two home and garden shows in Solano County. At the booth all I do is hand out CCW applications and tell people how easy it is to get a CCW. There is also a seminar offered in completing the packet and GC statements. The response I hear most are that you can't get a CCW in California.

What my experience has shown me is people don't take the time to go through the process. I've handed out over 200 applications and only seen 14 people attend the seminar from the home and garden shows.
I don't take that as a deterant as I readily pay my part of the booth and happily will stand there handing out applications and trying to educate the public.

The outdoor show has been a great venue as there are thousands of people who attend and suprisingly many are willing to listen. Some join the CRPA and yes there is always the one or two anti gun owers who say stupid things.

What is needed is more folks having informational booths at these types of events Vs gun shows. We need to target folks outside the gun community and educate them and offer services to make applying for the CCW easier.
Great work!

I'd encourage you to go thru my list of 95+ incidents where CCWs saved lives so that you can share some of them w/the people. It will show them that real people are really using their CCWs to protect themselves, something the MSM will NOT report. If you have a laptop or pad, you can show them the list yourself or have them google for "concealed carry saves lives" at CalGuns.Net Here's the link:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=598875

Hopefully, when they see that, more people who take apps will show up at the seminar and apply.

Last edited by Paladin; 09-11-2013 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael_Js View Post
Send one this way please!
If you mean the state CCW application, that is available at the CA DOJ's website (maybe under Bureau of Firearms).

Have you gone thru CGN's San Diego info yet? Every county has its own thread. San Diego's is:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352786

You can get an app there too.
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:10 AM
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I thought the sunshine initiative was designed for ccw? What ever happened to that?
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:33 PM
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I thought the sunshine initiative was designed for ccw? What ever happened to that?
I haven't heard anything new for awhile from Gray Peterson or Wildhawker/BC, so don't know if they're still getting sheriffs to clean up (i.e., conform to state law), their policies or if they're updating LTC/CCW issuance stats w/2012 numbers.
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Old 11-21-2013, 8:50 AM
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Giving this a bump.

CBS local TV news video w/transcript re. CCWs in SF Bay Area.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...apons-permits/

If CGN/CGF does NOT want to organize for the entire state per the above (not doing that leaves counties vulnerable to anti sheriffs getting elected), we should at least organize to increase the # of CCWers in the SF Bay Area.

Here are CBS's CCW numbers:
KPIX 5 put in records requests to all nine Bay Area county sheriffs and came up with a total of 1,616 active CCW permits. Here is the breakdown:

Solano: 451
Napa: 359
San Mateo: 239
Contra Costa: 205
Alameda: 170
Santa Clara: 99
Sonoma: 84
Marin: 29
San Francisco: 0


We can use incremental, "frog in the kettle" approach to slowly, but steadily increase the number of CCWers in the SF Bay Area, starting w/those first 5 counties: Solano, Napa, San Mateo, Contra Costa, and Alameda. While MOST of us would be denied under these counties current policies, why don't beat the bushes in each of these counties to make sure everyone who does qualify knows they can get a CCW?

CGN should have plenty of members in each of those counties to keep every local gun shop, public/private shooting range/gun club, and shooting club (IPSC, IDPA, PPC, IHMSA, etc.), stocked w/fliers giving info about getting a CA CCW, as well as informing jewelry store owners, coin dealers, etc. that they may qualify.

After the time involved w/initial start up (identifying all shops, clubs, ranges, etc, working up a suitable general flier that can have the sheriff's info edited for each county and, hopefully, link to dedicated CGN/CGF webpage for that county), brainstorming re. who else besides jewelry dealers and coin dealers to contact (perhaps using the old GC statements for each county that CGF collected for their Sunshine Initiative and/or in consultation w/CGF), there's very little time involved. Just figuring out how many fliers to leave at each location, how often each needs to be restocked, and then printing up the fliers at home and dropping them off when you're in the area (commuting, shopping, shooting, etc.). If we have a dozen volunteers (or less), for each county, this is easily doable. We can divide up each county geographically for convenience of each volunteer. Every two weeks or so, just email, call or drop by and ask if they're low or out of fliers. If they are, just swing by and drop some off next time you're near there. Keeping a bunch in a box in your trunk makes this easy.

If anyone who lives and/or works in the SF Bay Area wants to get involved with this effort, post in this thread and/or PM (Private Message), me.

Last edited by Paladin; 11-21-2013 at 2:26 PM..
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Old 11-21-2013, 9:21 AM
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Does increasing the amound of CCW hurt the cause though? The more people that get a CCW under a "may issue" system the more they can point their finger at it and say look its working the people that really need a CCW are getting it.
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Old 11-21-2013, 9:48 AM
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Who does qualify?

Would I, if I was on the streets of Oakland regularly with $10-20k of equipment? And people in my company have already been robbed while working in the streets of Oakland?
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Old 11-21-2013, 9:55 AM
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I don't think it hurts, it makes that many more people aware of how arduous the process is and hopefully they will push for shall issue. I know I will never ever ever vote for a sheriff that isn't "shall issue" now that me and my fiancée both have our carry permits in sacramento.
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  #32  
Old 11-21-2013, 11:51 AM
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I think this is a great idea. Even if getting a LTC in Contra Costa or Alameda is unlikely, increasing awareness of how easy it is to get one in most of the other counties will go a long way towards getting Contra Costa /Alameda gun owners more engaged. Put it this way: I am JEALOUS of Sacramentans since the recent victory on LTC. We need more gun owners who want LTC but assume it is impossible in CA to realize it's not: it's just unfair. Only good things can come from that I suspect.
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Old 11-21-2013, 3:21 PM
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Solano is not difficult. You just have to elaborate beyond self protection.
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Old 11-21-2013, 4:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
If anyone who lives and/or works in the SF Bay Area wants to get involved with this effort, post in this thread and/or PM (Private Message), me.
I'm in the San Jose area, and I commute up the peninsula past 5 or 6 gun stores daily. I'd be happy to leave a flier and a stack of business cards at the shops, if you'll point me at where to find the templates.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:49 PM
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Default Increase in CCW's

If we look at other states, the people who made the "final push" for CCW were women.

While we have been focusing in on the sheriffs, the reality is there are many smaller cities with their own police departments.

Some of those cities are conservative enclaves, in other words, getting the city council to tell the police chief to issue CCW permits on a non discriminatory basis is possible.

Our opponents want to make gun control a "local issue", perhaps we should learn from them and hit cities that have their own police agencies to have their Chief of Police to start issuing permits.

If enough cities in a county start doing this, some of our sheriff's who are fence sitters on the issue may fall our way.

Unlikely to get big cities, but smaller cities with lower populations, say 30 thousand or so might be ripe.

Low population cities may have small voter rolls which means they could be targeted. A city with 30 thousand residents in California may only have 10,000 registered voters.

A door to door petition drive might actually be effective on a local level.


Nicki
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Old 11-22-2013, 5:33 AM
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Originally Posted by nicki View Post
If we look at other states, the people who made the "final push" for CCW were women.

While we have been focusing in on the sheriffs, the reality is there are many smaller cities with their own police departments.

Some of those cities are conservative enclaves, in other words, getting the city council to tell the police chief to issue CCW permits on a non discriminatory basis is possible.

Our opponents want to make gun control a "local issue", perhaps we should learn from them and hit cities that have their own police agencies to have their Chief of Police to start issuing permits.

If enough cities in a county start doing this, some of our sheriff's who are fence sitters on the issue may fall our way.

Unlikely to get big cities, but smaller cities with lower populations, say 30 thousand or so might be ripe.

Low population cities may have small voter rolls which means they could be targeted. A city with 30 thousand residents in California may only have 10,000 registered voters.

A door to door petition drive might actually be effective on a local level.


Nicki
Okay. Start with Red Bluff. It's a small town (pop 14,000) where I hear the Tehama County S/O wont issue to residents of the incorporated city and the Police Chief is apparently reputed as a stubborn issuing authority.
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Old 11-22-2013, 3:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Giving this a bump.

CBS local TV news video w/transcript re. CCWs in SF Bay Area.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...apons-permits/

If CGN/CGF does NOT want to organize for the entire state per the above (not doing that leaves counties vulnerable to anti sheriffs getting elected), we should at least organize to increase the # of CCWers in the SF Bay Area.

Here are CBS's CCW numbers:
KPIX 5 put in records requests to all nine Bay Area county sheriffs and came up with a total of 1,616 active CCW permits. Here is the breakdown:

Solano: 451
Napa: 359
San Mateo: 239
Contra Costa: 205
Alameda: 170
Santa Clara: 99
Sonoma: 84
Marin: 29
San Francisco: 0


We can use incremental, "frog in the kettle" approach to slowly, but steadily increase the number of CCWers in the SF Bay Area, starting w/those first 5 counties: Solano, Napa, San Mateo, Contra Costa, and Alameda. While MOST of us would be denied under these counties current policies, why don't beat the bushes in each of these counties to make sure everyone who does qualify knows they can get a CCW?

CGN should have plenty of members in each of those counties to keep every local gun shop, public/private shooting range/gun club, and shooting club (IPSC, IDPA, PPC, IHMSA, etc.), stocked w/fliers giving info about getting a CA CCW, as well as informing jewelry store owners, coin dealers, etc. that they may qualify.

After the time involved w/initial start up (identifying all shops, clubs, ranges, etc, working up a suitable general flier that can have the sheriff's info edited for each county and, hopefully, link to dedicated CGN/CGF webpage for that county), brainstorming re. who else besides jewelry dealers and coin dealers to contact (perhaps using the old GC statements for each county that CGF collected for their Sunshine Initiative and/or in consultation w/CGF), there's very little time involved. Just figuring out how many fliers to leave at each location, how often each needs to be restocked, and then printing up the fliers at home and dropping them off when you're in the area (commuting, shopping, shooting, etc.). If we have a dozen volunteers (or less), for each county, this is easily doable. We can divide up each county geographically for convenience of each volunteer. Every two weeks or so, just email, call or drop by and ask if they're low or out of fliers. If they are, just swing by and drop some off next time you're near there. Keeping a bunch in a box in your trunk makes this easy.

If anyone who lives and/or works in the SF Bay Area wants to get involved with this effort, post in this thread and/or PM (Private Message), me.
To all of those who expressed an interest in helping w/this project by posting such here or sending me a PM, I'll get back to you this weekend, probably late Sat or Sun via PM.

In the mean time, try to think of more folks who probably qualify even under San Mateo, Alameda and Contra Costa's restrictive policies. I remembered hearing that a number of women real estate agents have been raped showing homes to strangers, thus hitting real estate offices should be added to our "businesses" list, along w/jewelry and coin/precious metals dealers.

The more people that are willing to help out, the lighter the load for everyone involved.

Solano seems to issue much more liberally than the other 4. But even in those 4, we want to get as many people who may qualify know about CA CCWs and the application process. Hopefully, they'll take things from there. Also hopefully, the sheriffs in those 4 counties will realize, like they have in Ohio (see linked article below), that law-abiding citizens w/guns is no problem, and start to liberalize their issuance too. Even if they don't, more Good Guys w/Guns on the street is always a good thing. They may stop a BG before he attacks you & yours. Plus, other BGs hearing about one of their own getting shot may make them seek lawful employment.

OH AG and Allen Co Sheriff both change their tune re. CCWs (no "Wild West shootouts", no "blood in the streets") and now SUPPORT "Shall Issue"!

Quote:
Lima Police Chief Kevin Martin said he, too, heard various concerns from citizens around town 10 years ago.

“I heard concerns and fears people would be engaged in road rage or neighbors not getting along, if someone had a gun, they would pull it and start shooting,” Martin said.

Martin said he didn't see that happen and law-abiding people didn't change.

“I have no concerns about honest, law-abiding citizens having the means to protect themselves,” Martin said.


http://www.limaohio.com/news/news/52...ing-mainstream

Last edited by Paladin; 11-22-2013 at 4:01 PM..
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Old 11-24-2013, 7:52 PM
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Does increasing the amound of CCW hurt the cause though? The more people that get a CCW under a "may issue" system the more they can point their finger at it and say look its working the people that really need a CCW are getting it.
If we get Shall Issue, it won't be thru Sacto anytime soon....

My guess is that even getting it thru the fed cts is 1.5 yrs away.

I'd much rather get some folks their CCWs in "the belly of the Beast" (SF Bay Area), now, than leave them needlessly exposed to risks. If some good shoots come out of it, and it makes CCWs an issue of public discussion, the more the better I say. Esp if people learn that in most counties of CA you can readily get a CCW and that in 42 out of 50 states getting one is even easier and yet bad shoots by CCWers are extremely rare whereas good shoots are becoming more and more common as more and more folks get their CCWs. (See Concealed Carry Saves Lives list linked in my sig line.)

Frankly, the folks I'm targeting are at greater risk than I am (due to attraction by rapists and/or robbers). If they come across a BG and take care of him, that's one less BG to cross my path!
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Old 11-24-2013, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by IPSICK View Post
Who does qualify?

Would I, if I was on the streets of Oakland regularly with $10-20k of equipment? And people in my company have already been robbed while working in the streets of Oakland?
Have you gone thru the Alameda Co thread at:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=352738 ?

It seems like Ahern has opened up the process by putting some info online.

You may want to get in touch w/Wildhawker (Brandon), to see what he has to say, since Gray is no longer involved w/the Sunshine Initiative. Brandon probably has the most recent info. on how Ahern may view your application.

Let me know if you would also be interested in helping out with the project described in my post above (#28).
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Old 11-24-2013, 8:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Just.a.guy View Post
I'm in the San Jose area, and I commute up the peninsula past 5 or 6 gun stores daily. I'd be happy to leave a flier and a stack of business cards at the shops, if you'll point me at where to find the templates.
PM sent.
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