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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 08-18-2013, 2:05 PM
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Arrow Anyone heard of a Supertool?

Anyone heard of a Supertool? I saw it a a gun show and it looked to good to be true. I did a search and got nothing. It seems to be a little different than the Mag magnet because it is also a take down tool. Anyone with experience with one .I like cool stuff but I'm wanting to be legal.
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Old 08-18-2013, 2:13 PM
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supertool usa.com ?

Quote:
Supertool currently holds the patent for the strongest magnet possible for this size so IT WILL stay attached and not fall off of your person (key chain, belt buckle, shirt and jacket button) wherever you go.
Looks to have a magnet, so no calling it a takedown tool as well does nothing to make it legal to use to release magazines on a semiautomatic centerfire fixed magazine rifle with features in CA.
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Last edited by Chaos47; 08-23-2013 at 1:05 PM.. Reason: To kill the active link
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  #3  
Old 08-18-2013, 2:32 PM
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Yes. It's a name I frequently give to my boss on the really bad days.
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  #4  
Old 08-18-2013, 2:45 PM
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oh nvmd i thought you were talking about chrisf
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Old 08-18-2013, 2:48 PM
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yes. Leland Yee = Supertool
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  #6  
Old 08-18-2013, 2:49 PM
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barry obummer is a supertool.
-g
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Old 08-18-2013, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Anyone heard of a Supertool?
*hikes trousers

"Why thank you for noticing"
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Old 08-18-2013, 3:02 PM
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^ he said SUPER tool, not MINI tool
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Old 08-18-2013, 4:22 PM
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Haven't heard of it but I know a few SuperTools.
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Old 08-18-2013, 4:25 PM
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dam I have been labeled that several times in the past.
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  #11  
Old 08-18-2013, 9:47 PM
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Well I guess I shouldn't be surprised
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  #12  
Old 08-18-2013, 9:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorax View Post
*hikes trousers

"Why thank you for noticing"
Ha! Very funny!
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Old 08-19-2013, 9:54 AM
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Wait......

20 dollars for a magnet some cop will stick on your BB and charge you with a FELONY.

Ill pass........
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  #14  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:16 AM
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Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.

Most of these guys claim their products to be legal; they are not in CA. The only time you can legally use these is out of state where a BB is not required anyways or on a featureless rifle, again where a BB is not required anyways. This is a felony waiting to happen for you! DO NOT BUY.

The law makes no distinction on the amount of time something is attached for to determine if it is a tool. Therefore any magnetic device that attaches itself to the rifle or part of the rifle, BB included, for ANY LENGTH OF TIME (even fractions of a second) is considered a part of that rifle and not an independent tool. EVERY TIME YOU USE A MAGNETIC "TOOL" TO RELEASE A MAG YOU ARE COMMITTING A FELONY. PLEASE WARN YOUR FELLOW SHOOTERS!

Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.

Last edited by naeco81; 08-19-2013 at 11:19 AM..
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  #15  
Old 08-19-2013, 11:56 AM
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You talkin bout Bryce Harper?.....
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  #16  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naeco81 View Post
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.

Most of these guys claim their products to be legal; they are not in CA. The only time you can legally use these is out of state where a BB is not required anyways or on a featureless rifle, again where a BB is not required anyways. This is a felony waiting to happen for you! DO NOT BUY.

The law makes no distinction on the amount of time something is attached for to determine if it is a tool. Therefore any magnetic device that attaches itself to the rifle or part of the rifle, BB included, for ANY LENGTH OF TIME (even fractions of a second) is considered a part of that rifle and not an independent tool. EVERY TIME YOU USE A MAGNETIC "TOOL" TO RELEASE A MAG YOU ARE COMMITTING A FELONY. PLEASE WARN YOUR FELLOW SHOOTERS!

Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
I personally don't submit to "masters" myself and prefer information (facts) over other people's conjecture. Can you please explain why they are not legal? Since you're an expert on the issue of course...

Too many times in this industry I've experienced other people creating their own firearms laws and regulations that don't exist in order to be "safe" from the law man.

This "safety" that supposed guns lovers are promoting is usually not based on reality or law and is only serving to assist the anti-firearm agenda. Those that subscribe to this strategy are weak and should be silenced with truth.

All these rediculous laws to strip us of our rights are created by ignorant people that should be pushed back and not implemented further by other ignorant people. In otherwords, don't become a supertool in order to protect yourself against supertools.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
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  #17  
Old 08-22-2013, 12:33 PM
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Looks to me that Senator Yee attempted to rewrite the bill in 2012 to include magnetism...

Dated July 07, 2012

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...state-sen-yee/

Then this bill DIED in the assembly in August of 2012...

Dated August 21,2012

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/08/2...in-california/

I'm not an expert on this but isn't this evidence to support a precedence that magnets are legal to use? I mean since the bill did not pass?
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  #18  
Old 08-22-2013, 1:07 PM
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So once the magnet attaches and takes hold of the bullet button, how does it not make the rifle a detachable mag rifle. This has been debated countless times and those under the false belief that this is legal in California in anything other than a featureless centerfire or a rimfire are an overwhelming minority. You could try it but don't expect any help on any potential legal defense fees.
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  #19  
Old 08-22-2013, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREENONE1 View Post
Looks to me that Senator Yee attempted to rewrite the bill in 2012 to include magnetism...

Dated July 07, 2012

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...state-sen-yee/

Then this bill DIED in the assembly in August of 2012...

Dated August 21,2012

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/08/2...in-california/

I'm not an expert on this but isn't this evidence to support a precedence that magnets are legal to use? I mean since the bill did not pass?
Just because it did not get banned by those bills doesn't give those magnetic magazine tools the legal precedence to make them legal.

I do not advocate any magnetic magazine release tool as the central issue at hand is how a fixed magazine transforms into a non-fixed magazine when the magnetic button release tool is deployed. Unless the weapon is featureless, a magnetic magazine release tool exposes the user to a felony possession of a assault weapon in the State of California by virtue of its "non-fixed" magazine.

I don't recall of a legal action/case for the magnet magazine release tool but if I recall correctly the position of the CGF is to not use these magnetic release tools.

Last edited by SouperMan; 08-22-2013 at 1:58 PM..
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  #20  
Old 08-22-2013, 1:09 PM
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It is technically using a tool to release the magazine but I wouldn't feel comfortable betting my freedom on a technicality in this state
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  #21  
Old 08-22-2013, 1:14 PM
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OK kids, Ill sort this out for you since it seems nobody is tracking.

Magnets are problematic because they effectively convert your bullet button, radd lock etc etc into NOT a fixed magazine.
The problem in that instance is not with the magnet but the rifle itself, assuming we are talking about a centerfire semiauto rifle with evil features here. Now, if you are still not tracking then you are way ahead of yourself even by being this thread and need to spend some time reading the flow charts at the top of the forum.

Is owning one of these magnets itself a crime ?
Not at all.
Are there legitimate uses for them? Sure. If you slap a rimfire upper on your AR rifle, convert to featureless, convert to bolt action or go out of state.

Of course if you have ever built your own lower then you know how easy it is to swap out mag locks for a standard assembly which makes the magnet a little silly, but its your money.
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  #22  
Old 08-22-2013, 1:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREENONE1 View Post
I personally don't submit to "masters" myself and prefer information (facts) over other people's conjecture. Can you please explain why they are not legal? Since you're an expert on the issue of course...
I did explain why they are not legal in the very quote you posted:

Quote:
The law makes no distinction on the amount of time something is attached for to determine if it is a tool. Therefore any magnetic device that attaches itself to the rifle or part of the rifle, BB included, for ANY LENGTH OF TIME (even fractions of a second) is considered a part of that rifle and not an independent tool. EVERY TIME YOU USE A MAGNETIC "TOOL" TO RELEASE A MAG YOU ARE COMMITTING A FELONY. PLEASE WARN YOUR FELLOW SHOOTERS!
That's why they're illegal. You can also search on Calguns for "mag magnet" or "magnetic tool" and find plenty of threads where other people have posted about this. Or you can PM Bill Wiese and ask him.

Your whole tirade about people caving too easily is irrelevant. This has nothing to do with caving and everything to do with keeping honest, law abiding gun owners out of jail. Given that you just created this account I'm inclined to believe you are the same OP just trying to shill. But hey, if you believe so strongly in your commitment to liberty that you want to question mine then go right ahead and make a video of you using this product in California on a centerfire featured rifle. I'll let the DOJ give you all the proof you need after that.
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  #23  
Old 08-22-2013, 2:16 PM
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supertool makes a magnetic bullet button. or should that read

a supertool makes a magnetic bullet button. or should that read

a magnetic bullet button is made by a supertool. or should that read

guy makes a magnetic bullet button. advertises it on CG. he's a supertool.

eh, take your pick
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Old 08-22-2013, 3:06 PM
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GREENONE1, interesting first two posts.
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Old 08-22-2013, 3:13 PM
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Ask yourself this, if one of the vendors that sells these magnetic locks says that it is legal for you to use on a featured gun if you "only leave it attached while you are changing the mag", why does he do all his demos on a featureless gun.

And I thought I saw another vendor using a featured gun but with a dedicated .22lr upper on it.

looks like two vendors telling their customers that it is legal to use it on a featured semi-auto centerfire rifle, but apparently not willing to use it themselves at the show.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naeco81 View Post
I did explain why they are not legal in the very quote you posted:



That's why they're illegal. You can also search on Calguns for "mag magnet" or "magnetic tool" and find plenty of threads where other people have posted about this. Or you can PM Bill Wiese and ask him.

Your whole tirade about people caving too easily is irrelevant. This has nothing to do with caving and everything to do with keeping honest, law abiding gun owners out of jail. Given that you just created this account I'm inclined to believe you are the same OP just trying to shill. But hey, if you believe so strongly in your commitment to liberty that you want to question mine then go right ahead and make a video of you using this product in California on a centerfire featured rifle. I'll let the DOJ give you all the proof you need after that.
The law makes no distinction on the amount of time? If there is no amount of time required by law then wouldn't it stand to reason that time is not a factor?

The law actually reads that the tool can not be permanently attached to the rifle. If you look up magnet, the definition reads that it's a material that attracts...attract is not the same word as attach.

Then there's Calguns original post...the one dating back to 2009. Mag Magnet as a company has been around since before 2009...since they are the subject of the thread. I was shocked to find their website! If this is such an evil item that puts people in jail then why are they still in business?

Upon further research, I cannot find any legitimate legal explanations nor any reasonable facts that back up the claim that this item is indeed going to create felons. Don't you think if it did that there would have been one story in the past 4 years? I have found however a number of emotionally fueled arguments on this website supported by zero facts. Hmmm...This sounds rather familiar....oh I KNOW! This is how the left supports gun control! Now I get it!

Look I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just sick of all the libs pushing everyone around with ignorant solutions for violence and self defense. I'm a United States Marine Corps infantry veteran that stands up in the face of tyranny and will FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE FIGHT FOR FREEDOM.

From my research, it seems to me that this tool provides just this. I for one applaud them.

Now, strap on your big boy panties, pull out a dictionary and listen. As I mentioned previously, I don't adhere to other people's conjecture (other people's opinions) and nobody here has provided a single ounce of evidence to support the fact that this tool is going to send you to jail. YOUR word is NOT FACT. Neither is what Joe Bob Frank or Tom has told you.

Do you know what the difference is between the anti-gun establishment and us (if you are one of us)? One dictates divisive action to provide safety while the other seeks common sense solutions to provide freedom.

Your research, fact finding mission and public safety notices should be focused on fighting the opposition through facts that support our rights NOT the rediculous anti-gun agenda.

Until then, you my friend are either a confused firearms owner or a gun control advocate pretending to be one.

It's time to either wake up, stand and fight or be honest with yourself.

_____This message is for everyone here that has argued this point_______

Last edited by GREENONE1; 08-23-2013 at 12:11 AM..
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  #27  
Old 08-22-2013, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos47 View Post
GREENONE1, interesting first two posts.
Now 3. A shill-ing for his thoughts.

Now I'm more confused. I can't tell if I'm anti-gun or a confused gun owner. Maybe I just don't want to be a test case.

I'm starting to think more and more that the use of the term "supertool" is really ironic or a sick joke.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:56 PM
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Green,

What a beautiful mixture of logical fallacy and gross misunderstanding of the fundamental mechanics of criminal law.

Im going to be very blunt with you.

Want to actually rise to the conviction you claim via keyboard ?
Educate yourself.

P.S.
This is FAR from a new discussion, and I dont believe there is a single learned mind on this forum that would even remotely share your conclusion (which happens to include genuine lawyers btw) but if you really think you are on to something knock yourself out

Last edited by MrPlink; 08-23-2013 at 12:07 AM..
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
Green,

What a beautiful mixture of logical fallacy and gross misunderstanding of the fundamental mechanics of criminal law.

Im going to be very blunt with you.

Want to actually rise to the conviction you claim via keyboard ?
Educate yourself.

P.S.
This is FAR from a new discussion, and I dont believe there is a single learned mind on this forum that would even remotely share your conclusion (which happens to include genuine lawyers btw) but if you really think you are on to something knock yourself out
As I mentioned provide fact. You have none.

Fallacy? Which part? Please enlighten me...
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:22 AM
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Default Anyone heard of a Supertool?

i'm quoting below from another recent thread in which a poster explained the anti-magnet logic in unusually concise terms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock6.3 View Post
Ask yourself 'why do we need to buy a bullet button?'.

When you have answered the above question, ask yourself 'how is a mag magnet on a bullet button any different from having no bullet button at all?'

Then ask 'If I have to have a bullet button per line 1 above, then how can a mag magnet on a bullet button be legal?'
as for the rest of the post, plink has it pretty well characterized as

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPlink View Post
a beautiful mixture of logical fallacy and gross misunderstanding of the fundamental mechanics of criminal law.
look, we all know what the law SHOULD be (or at least we each have our own ideas), but that's not necessarily the same thing as what the law IS. tilting at the windmill is all well and good, but it has to be done a certain way; simply ignoring the law and its implications is not the way unless you're prepared to accept some serious consequences.

if you wanna buck that, you go for it. we'll see you back here in 5 to 10 years and you can tell us all how it went.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:49 AM
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Nowhere in any of my posts did I advocate breaking the law nor am I ignoring it...All I'm saying is that I want to see the facts that supports this thing is breaking the law. Every post here only provides opinion or other people's opinion or other people's opinion of opinions.

The only evidence on the web is a bill that did not pass.

Last edited by GREENONE1; 08-23-2013 at 10:16 AM..
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  #32  
Old 08-23-2013, 6:20 AM
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A magnetic "tool" creates a detachable magazine for the duration it is magnetically attached to the rifle. If you have a centerfire featured rifle this means you just created an AW which earns you a felony charge. We have given you the facts several times over. You are the one questioning our motivations for doing so. If you believe so strongly in your legal misunderstanding then please, make a video of you using this product within California on a featured centerfire rifle, or just answer these questions:

Why are you so afraid to do this if you are clearly convinced that we are trying to push an anti-gun agenda? Why do NONE of the makers of these products demonstrate them on featured centerfire rifles in California? Why don't people hang their non magnetic BB tools from their rifle? Why did MagMagnet used to include this disclaimer:

Quote:
For use in California, do not leave Mag Magnet on rifle at any time. Mag Magnet Inc. shall not be held responsible in any way for the inappropriate use of the product by the user. User assumes all liability and risks associated with ownership and use of this product. Mag Magnet Inc. shall not be held responsible in any way for the inappropriate use of this product by the user. User assumes all liability and risks associated with ownership and use of this product.
Here's their page today; notice how they make absolutely ZERO mention of using it in any capacity on a featured centerfire rifle in California? Why do you think that is?

You are either a shill or someone with a dangerous amount of stupidity. If you had even a basic understanding of our legal system you would understand the distinction between fact and opinion is near impossible. Everything is a legal opinion, even a SCOTUS decision. That's because the law is living - it is constantly interpreted in new ways and DA's bring charges based on their legal opinion. You can chest thump all day about your commitment to liberty but that's pretty laughable; how about you chuck a few bucks toward the orgs fighting for our rights instead of trying to steer some shooters toward a felony?

Or take my earlier advice and ignore what I say and instead listen to Bill Wiese:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=238857

The simple truth is we have explained why this is a felony waiting to happen. If you are so sincere in your quest to prove your understanding is superior, then go ahead and make that video. What harm could come from it, right?

Last edited by naeco81; 08-23-2013 at 6:29 AM..
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  #33  
Old 08-23-2013, 6:32 AM
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Originally Posted by naeco81 View Post
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.

Most of these guys claim their products to be legal; they are not in CA. The only time you can legally use these is out of state where a BB is not required anyways or on a featureless rifle, again where a BB is not required anyways. This is a felony waiting to happen for you! DO NOT BUY.

The law makes no distinction on the amount of time something is attached for to determine if it is a tool. Therefore any magnetic device that attaches itself to the rifle or part of the rifle, BB included, for ANY LENGTH OF TIME (even fractions of a second) is considered a part of that rifle and not an independent tool. EVERY TIME YOU USE A MAGNETIC "TOOL" TO RELEASE A MAG YOU ARE COMMITTING A FELONY. PLEASE WARN YOUR FELLOW SHOOTERS!

Do not buy any magnetic magazine release tools.
CHILL THE **** OUT AND STOP POSTING IN RIDICULOUS SIZE FONTS.

Lets see some case law to back up any of what you just said. What's the difference between putting this magnet device on a rifle, replacing the magazine, then removing the magnet device vs. placing a non magnetic tool in the bb, replacing the mag and removing the tool?

I'll give you a hint, there isn't one. Stop trying to emulate encyclopedia dramatica post formatting.
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Old 08-23-2013, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by viper37 View Post
CHILL THE **** OUT AND STOP POSTING IN RIDICULOUS SIZE FONTS.

Lets see some case law to back up any of what you just said. What's the difference between putting this magnet device on a rifle, replacing the magazine, then removing the magnet device vs. placing a non magnetic tool in the bb, replacing the mag and removing the tool?

I'll give you a hint, there isn't one. Stop trying to emulate encyclopedia dramatica post formatting.
The difference is one is attached to the rifle and one is not. If you stick a bullet tip in a BB and cant the rifle sideways it will fall out. Do the same with a magnetic or friction based "tool" and it does not. I absolutely will not stop using emphasis to warn shooters about the risks - they are intended to be annoyingly large.
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Old 08-23-2013, 6:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Chaos47 View Post
GREENONE1, interesting first two posts.
This a guy who got banned before and is under a different account. Im gonna report it and see what happens.
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  #36  
Old 08-23-2013, 7:04 AM
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Don't confuse the Webster definition with "The Courts" definition it could and often times has a completely different meaning.
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Old 08-23-2013, 8:37 AM
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So I'm curious, since you either work for or own Supertool (an '@supertoolusa.com email address kinda gives it away) why did you not make that clear in your posting?

As for the legality. an item or part that affixes or attaches to the weapon becomes a part of the weapon. When a magnetic button is attached to the weapon the magazine can be released without the aid of a tool.
A rifle with listed features that can release the magazine without disassembly or use of a tool is an illegal 'assault weapon' under the law.

Since you do not 'submit to masters' and are sure of the legality of your product here's a challenge for you, it comes in two parts.

A) Take and post to youtube a video of yourself IN CALIFORNIA using a magnetic release tool on an AR pattern rifle WITH listed features, a pistol grip, flash hider and forward pistol grip.

B) Demonstrate your product at gun shows with the same rifle with all the same features.

If it is indeed legal you should have no problem doing these two things.
If you do not do these two things you are admitting that the product is NOT legal.

It's that simple.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GREENONE1 View Post
I personally don't submit to "masters" myself and prefer information (facts) over other people's conjecture. Can you please explain why they are not legal? Since you're an expert on the issue of course...

Too many times in this industry I've experienced other people creating their own firearms laws and regulations that don't exist in order to be "safe" from the law man.

This "safety" that supposed guns lovers are promoting is usually not based on reality or law and is only serving to assist the anti-firearm agenda. Those that subscribe to this strategy are weak and should be silenced with truth.

All these rediculous laws to strip us of our rights are created by ignorant people that should be pushed back and not implemented further by other ignorant people. In otherwords, don't become a supertool in order to protect yourself against supertools.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
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  #38  
Old 08-23-2013, 8:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestryll View Post
Since you do not 'submit to masters' and are sure of the legality of your product here's a challenge for you, it comes in two parts.

A) Take and post to youtube a video of yourself IN CALIFORNIA using a magnetic release tool on an AR pattern rifle WITH listed features, a pistol grip, flash hider and forward pistol grip.

B) Demonstrate your product at gun shows with the same rifle with all the same features.

If it is indeed legal you should have no problem doing these two things.
If you do not do these two things you are admitting that the product is NOT legal.

It's that simple.
and make sure that it has a semi-automatic centerfire upper on it as well, not a rimfire upper.

I seem to recall a vendor using a S&W M&P15-22 at a show once, but people were commenting that as a rimfire it was exempt from the feature ban so it didn't matter if the magnet was a tool or not. At the next show it was a normal S&W M&P15 but I don't know if the upper was a centerfire upper or not since the dust cover is always closed.
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  #39  
Old 08-23-2013, 8:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREENONE1 View Post
I personally don't submit to "masters" myself and prefer information (facts) over other people's conjecture. Can you please explain why they are not legal? Since you're an expert on the issue of course...

Too many times in this industry I've experienced other people creating their own firearms laws and regulations that don't exist in order to be "safe" from the law man.

This "safety" that supposed guns lovers are promoting is usually not based on reality or law and is only serving to assist the anti-firearm agenda. Those that subscribe to this strategy are weak and should be silenced with truth.

All these rediculous laws to strip us of our rights are created by ignorant people that should be pushed back and not implemented further by other ignorant people. In otherwords, don't become a supertool in order to protect yourself against supertools.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Google broken? Try the link below (you click the blue letters).

Too ignorant to search...

"They who can give up basic intelligence to obtain what they think are large cojones, deserve neither intelligence nor large cojones".
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  #40  
Old 08-23-2013, 9:06 AM
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Utterly owned by Kestryll. 10/10 would read again.
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