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  #601  
Old 05-30-2013, 7:45 AM
Diablohtr Diablohtr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Yes.



It's not about vehicles. You can't LOC while in a prohibited area. Roads are prohibited areas. In a vehicle or on foot you can't LOC on a road.

Are fire roads considered "roads"? Going camping in Eldorado NF outside of official campgrounds.
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  #602  
Old 05-30-2013, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Diablohtr View Post
Are fire roads considered "roads"? Going camping in Eldorado NF outside of official campgrounds.
Dumb question, but do I need a permit to camp also?

I was thinking of doing that too in the EDNF outside of Sly Park outside of all of the official campsites..

Already have a campfire permit..

Last edited by jmpeal; 05-30-2013 at 3:09 PM..
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  #603  
Old 05-31-2013, 6:14 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpeal View Post
Dumb question, but do I need a permit to camp also?

I was thinking of doing that too in the EDNF outside of Sly Park outside of all of the official campsites..

Already have a campfire permit..
jmpeal, I don't think so. Here is a link to the fire restriction status - be sure to check it before you head up. http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/eldora...fsbdev7_019036
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  #604  
Old 05-31-2013, 3:20 PM
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Thanks! I did not think so either, but wanted to be sure.
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  #605  
Old 06-01-2013, 9:04 PM
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You don't need a permit to camp in an undeveloped area of a NF.
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  #606  
Old 06-02-2013, 3:57 AM
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You DO need a fire permit if you plan on having a campfire though. Otherwise, we still have the freedom to go camping - for now anyways.
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  #607  
Old 06-02-2013, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mls343 View Post
You DO need a fire permit if you plan on having a campfire though. Otherwise, we still have the freedom to go camping - for now anyways.
Agreed. What's silly is that you can get the fire permit online and just print out the piece of paper. Then what is the point of the fire permit? They are not tracking who they are issued to online (you get a PDF to print and fill out). If it's purely educational, then just have the papers available when you enter the NF and folks can just get their self-issued permit on the way into the NF.

Take the 4 question quiz and get your NF Fire Permit - a fire permit issued by any California NF is good in all California NFs.
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  #608  
Old 06-03-2013, 6:38 AM
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They just want to make sure you follow the rules so ya don't burn the forest down.
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  #609  
Old 06-03-2013, 7:26 AM
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Because "Only you can prevent forest fires"
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  #610  
Old 06-06-2013, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablohtr View Post
Are fire roads considered "roads"? Going camping in Eldorado NF outside of official campgrounds.

Yes. Called el dorado nf the other day and had a long talk about carry laws with the captain. Long story short he just told me what penal code to look at and make my interpretation of the laws. He did however point out some subtleties in that it is illegal to loc on areas where it's not ok to discharge, and that all of the fire roads qualify under this prohibition of discharge.
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  #611  
Old 06-09-2013, 7:42 AM
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Quick question guys - I typically UCC when I fish in the NF. I am meeting my buddy on Friday to do some fishing and camping. He would also like to UCC while we are out......he is a NV resident though and he will be bringing his new, off-roster Springfield EMP. Do the penal codes apply equally to non-CA residents??? Don't want him to get screwed over.
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  #612  
Old 06-09-2013, 7:53 AM
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  #613  
Old 06-10-2013, 7:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
Quick question guys - I typically UCC when I fish in the NF. I am meeting my buddy on Friday to do some fishing and camping. He would also like to UCC while we are out......he is a NV resident though and he will be bringing his new, off-roster Springfield EMP. Do the penal codes apply equally to non-CA residents??? Don't want him to get screwed over.
There is a thread on here titled Firearms in Forests. Short summary, while travelling to/from a Fishing expedition, you can UCC on your way, and may LCC while fishing.

So long as you have a valid fishing license, I don't think it matters what you are, state resident, US citizen, etc.

I have no knowledge regarding specific guns (too new).

I suggest keeping a printed copy of the PDF document at the above thread with you. I keep it in my fishing license pouch.
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  #614  
Old 06-18-2013, 1:19 PM
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http://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/eldora...ces/?aid=17826
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  #615  
Old 07-02-2013, 10:53 AM
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This may have already been mentioned (I didn't read all 600 posts) but if you have a valid fishing license you can hunt for reptiles and amphibians. So I would imagine that as long as fishing is legal on the land you are on you could carry as long as you had your fishing license. Could be a good way to extend loaded carry from your kayak to the car, etc.

Thanks for this great site.
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  #616  
Old 07-04-2013, 2:22 PM
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I've been neglecting this thread for quite some time. I'll try and catch up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelsodeez View Post
my dad and i used to shoot on the edge of the yolo basin wetlands back in the 90's. anyone know the legalities these days of shooting there? the land is managed by the department of fish and game.
Lands managed by State Fish and Game Wildlife are generally pretty restrictive. You'll need to find the website or office that manages it and find out what their restrictions may be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eatcow View Post
Hey MudCamper great info, super helpful.

My main question is as far as carrying a shotgun in National Parks in CA goes, wouldn't H.R.627 s 512 (b)(2) make it illegal to carry the gun in CA Nat' Parks at all because its illegal to carry it completely in state parks under State CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313.
You are making a classic mistake here. You mention National Parks in CA and then you go on to cite a State of California regulation for California State Parks. California State Parks are owned and regulated by the State of California. National Parks (in California or elsewhere) are owned and regulated by the Federal Government. They are two totally different things.

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Originally Posted by eatcow View Post
And given my above argument doesn't apply, could I UOC a shotgun in Yosemite (CA natl park) if I was hiking and not yet at my campsite? If not how would I do it, I am very confused, would I have to lock/conceal/unload it while hiking to my campsite and then once there could UOC it?
You appear to be confusing laws for handguns and long guns. Generally there are no locking/concealing related laws for long guns. Technically, you could carry your unloaded long gun around in a NP, but it will end badly for you. Personally I'd advise against it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta Frog View Post
My question is why do some lose sleep over this crap? You can interpret the laws to death and still not have it right. Just do what you feel you need to do and keep calm and carry on.

Don't get me wrong, I do my best to comply too but with all the gray areas regarding gun laws I just do my best to do what I think is right When I am carrying.

I have a ccw so maybe its easier for me to think that way but all these nitpicky laws are just mind boggling and there is more important things to worry about. In My Opinion.

Common sense to begin with will keep most of us out of trouble.
You have a CCW. Most of us don't have that privilege. (And it is a privilege in this state.) So it's easy for you to sit back and call us crazy. But for me (no CCW ever possible) I like to know where the legal lines are. Plus, I enjoy figuring it all out. I guess it's like a puzzle to solve. And I get to help other people figure out how to carry while avoiding legal trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diablohtr View Post
Are fire roads considered "roads"? Going camping in Eldorado NF outside of official campgrounds.
Not entirely clear. Most probably not. But if the road is a county or state road, or is maintained by a county or state, then it is definitely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
Quick question guys - I typically UCC when I fish in the NF. I am meeting my buddy on Friday to do some fishing and camping. He would also like to UCC while we are out......he is a NV resident though and he will be bringing his new, off-roster Springfield EMP. Do the penal codes apply equally to non-CA residents??? Don't want him to get screwed over.
No difference for state resident or not. He just needs to make sure he doesn't bring in any magazines larger than 10 rounds capacity.
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  #617  
Old 07-04-2013, 2:59 PM
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[QUOTE=MudCamper;11741203]I like to know where the legal lines are. Plus, I enjoy figuring it all out. I guess it's like a puzzle to solve. And I get to help other people figure out how to carry while avoiding legal trouble./QUOTE]

This thread is a super helping resource, thank you for the time and effort. :thumbup:
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  #618  
Old 07-15-2013, 9:38 AM
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Soo to be very safe in NP UOC would be your best bet?
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  #619  
Old 07-15-2013, 2:07 PM
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^^^ Based on the above 16 pages, I don't think we still know for sure, which is EXACTLY what Sacramento wants.
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  #620  
Old 07-15-2013, 7:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyCobraManTim View Post
^^^ Based on the above 16 pages, I don't think we still know for sure, which is EXACTLY what Sacramento wants.
Basically, yes. Still better to arm yourself with info. Let a pushy LEO know that you can quote the penal codes by heart, and you can bet he won't want to fight you in court. Let him know you will raise a fuss online and in letters to his supervisor. Let him know that you will call Calguns if he ignores the law and cites you. Lots of LEOs know about Calguns, and fear them.
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  #621  
Old 07-15-2013, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Thedomsaww View Post
Soo to be very safe in NP UOC would be your best bet?
No. AB144 passed and created PC 26350, banning UOC of handguns in prohibited areas. The entire Park system is a prohibited area.
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  #622  
Old 07-15-2013, 7:47 PM
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Yes. NP is different from NF. There is a difference. A big one.
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  #623  
Old 07-16-2013, 10:19 AM
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ya wow this is too complicated. I wanna do some backpacking in my near future and would like to carry my new handgun. However sounds like they have made it soo complicated that its almost not worth it. So even if i am in the backwoods UOC could still get me in trouble?
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  #624  
Old 07-16-2013, 8:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedomsaww View Post
ya wow this is too complicated. I wanna do some backpacking in my near future and would like to carry my new handgun. However sounds like they have made it soo complicated that its almost not worth it. So even if i am in the backwoods UOC could still get me in trouble?
Best bet IMO, is to get a hunting license. That cuts down on the BS by maybe 30%... Remember THEY want you not to carry, so stick it to the man and go hunting!

On another note, a big high five and should I ever meet MudCamper I'm buying you a frosty pint for taking the time to make and update this thread.

Cheers.
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  #625  
Old 07-22-2013, 11:21 PM
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After reading through much of this thread, I'm still a bit confused.

Is it legal to UOC in National Forests in CA after AB144 went into effect?
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  #626  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snorky View Post
After reading through much of this thread, I'm still a bit confused.

Is it legal to UOC in National Forests in CA after AB144 went into effect?
Unless you are exercising one of the UOC specific exemptions - its basically legal to LOC anywhere its legal to UOC.

So, why bother UOCing in a National Forest when its likely possible to LOC?

Ultimately what you need to know is whether the area is prohibited to shooting. If it is, both LOC and UOC are illegal.
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  #627  
Old 07-24-2013, 9:27 AM
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please excuse my ignorance but I am really confused. I am going to Yosemite national park next week and looked on their web site and they have a bear and wild animal sighting counter for the week. this week there have been some bear and cougar sightings. my question is can I carry a hand gun loaded or not into a national park like Yosemite while hiking. please help me understand the law as I don't want to break the law but don't want to take a chance of me and my family running into a bear or cougar and I have a stick in my hand to protect my family
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaka View Post
please excuse my ignorance but I am really confused. I am going to Yosemite national park next week and looked on their web site and they have a bear and wild animal sighting counter for the week. this week there have been some bear and cougar sightings. my question is can I carry a hand gun loaded or not into a national park like Yosemite while hiking. please help me understand the law as I don't want to break the law but don't want to take a chance of me and my family running into a bear or cougar and I have a stick in my hand to protect my family
I didn't look it up, but I'm 99% sure that discharge is prohibited in Yosemite National Park. That therefore prohibits LOC & UOC.

However, if you have a LTC, it is valid in the Park and you may carry 'as issued' However, you must abide by federal law with regard to federal buildings within the park.
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  #629  
Old 07-24-2013, 10:45 AM
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this text is taken directly out of the Yosemite national park web page concerning firearms "Weapons/Firearms





Firearms

As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, visit the California Attorney General's website.

Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal.






Other Weapons
The possession, use, or discharge of pepper spray (including bear spray), pellet guns, and BB guns in Yosemite National Park is prohibited."

so that being the case you can carry a firearm in a national park but under no circumstance is it to be discharged is that correct ?
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  #630  
Old 08-06-2013, 3:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaka View Post
this text is taken directly out of the Yosemite national park web page concerning firearms "Weapons/Firearms

Quote:
Firearms

As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, visit the California Attorney General's website.

Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal.

Other Weapons
The possession, use, or discharge of pepper spray (including bear spray), pellet guns, and BB guns in Yosemite National Park is prohibited."
so that being the case you can carry a firearm in a national park but under no circumstance is it to be discharged is that correct ?
As you quoted from the Yosemite Weapons/Firearms page, the Superintendent of YNP does not even allow possession of weapons in YNP.

Having said that, it depends on the National Park. It's up to the Superintendent of each specific NP per Title 36 (see page 1 of the Yosemite Superintendent's Compendium linked below).

From the Yosemite Superintendent's Compendium:

Quote:
36 CFR 2.4 WEAPONS, TRAPS, AND NETS
(d)(2) A permit is required to possess a weapon, trap or net. The Superintendent may issue a permit to carry or possess a weapon, trap, or net under the following circumstances:
To persons in charge of pack trains or saddle horses, emergency use is meant solely for the use of dispatching injured stock.
That's it, end of story for legal possession in YNP (other than CA CCW holders) unless you can get the Superintendent replaced.

Having said that, I don't plan to go back to Yosemite without my CCW.
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Old 08-06-2013, 5:44 PM
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So here is how I carry without a CCW on my way to and in a National Forest to fish (and camp):

I'm at home and/or closed garage (no fence in the front yard), so I'm LCC/LOC. I can do this per 25605.

I purchase online and print out my California season Fishing License (and take the camp fire quiz and print out the camp fire permit). Just before I leave, while in my closed garage, I unload my firearm and UCC, get in my car and hit the garage door opener.

Quote:
UCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen ... while traveling to/from hunting/fishing expeditions (PC 25640)
When I cross into the NF boarder, I do not load my firearm, but continue to UCC. I cannot load my firearm because
Quote:
Shooting is prohibited on or across roads ...("prohibited areas")
If I were to stop somewhere and not be where

Quote:
Shooting is prohibited (within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site ("prohibited areas"))
you know, to water some trees, then I can load my firearm and LOC as

Quote:
LOC and UOC are legal everywhere except "prohibited areas" (areas where shooting is prohibited)
I don't, typically, as I'd rather just continue to UCC and keep my firearm out of sight (as I'm on my fishing expedition, I can still UCC).

When I get to where we camp, I park off the side of the dirt fire road. Now, as I'm not where

Quote:
Shooting is prohibited (within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site ("prohibited areas"))
then I can load my firearm and LOC with my t-shirt tucked behind my firearm while I'm unloading camping gear (but not yet down in the camp) as

Quote:
LOC and UOC are legal everywhere except "prohibited areas" (areas where shooting is prohibited)
When I walk down between the brush and into my campsite (the brush makes a wall around the camping area, so it's really clear that the large area is my campsite), I pull my t-shirt around my weapon, as now I'm allowed to LCC, since
Quote:
LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)
Anytime I'm going to leave my campsite I have to walk on the fire road. I always have some fishing line, a safely stored hook, and my fishing license with me, so I can UCC as

Quote:
UCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen ... while traveling to/from hunting/fishing expeditions (PC 25640)
This is easy to do when there are creeks all around where I camp, so I'm always going to/from fishing.

When I get to the creek, I can tie my line off and toss the hook in the creek. Now I can LCC as

Quote:
LCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, but only where shooting is not prohibited (PC 25640)
What a very, very convoluted mess!.

At the start of next year, instead of getting an annual fishing license (I don't even fish, I just do it for the legal CC), I'll get an annual hunting license and be always on the hunt for Coyotes.

The two licenses cost the same ($44.85). I just have to pass the California Hunter Ed class. The Hunter Ed class is a one-time thing per person and good forever.

With a Hunting License, then I'll be able to UCC while on the roads (the same that I could with my fishing license), LOC/LCC at my campsite, and LCC whenever hiking and in non-prohibited areas while in the NF. I'll also be able to UCC from my house to BLM land where we target practice (which I can't do now, nowhere to fish there), as we'll be always on the hunt for Coyotes, and I'll be able to LCC while on BLM land.

I'm hoping to be beyond all of this with a CCW in a year and be done with this mess.
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Old 08-06-2013, 8:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaka View Post
please excuse my ignorance but I am really confused. I am going to Yosemite national park next week and looked on their web site and they have a bear and wild animal sighting counter for the week. this week there have been some bear and cougar sightings. my question is can I carry a hand gun loaded or not into a national park like Yosemite while hiking. please help me understand the law as I don't want to break the law but don't want to take a chance of me and my family running into a bear or cougar and I have a stick in my hand to protect my family
As I understand it, CCW is allowed with permit, but all others are SOL. I have packed heat into the park while camping. May not be smart (prob a fed crime), but I'd rather be stupid than dead (or have one of my kids be killed). Im not telling you to do it, I'm just stating what I have heard.
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  #633  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:02 AM
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On another note, a big high five and should I ever meet MudCamper I'm buying you a frosty pint for taking the time to make and update this thread.
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  #634  
Old 08-17-2013, 8:05 PM
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Anyone hike the Stevens trail in colfax? I think it's blm, first time going. So is it ok to open carry the hike?

I heard there was a mountain lion incident earlier this year.
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  #635  
Old 08-18-2013, 10:48 AM
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Two cups of coffee and a morning spent reading. HUGE tip of the hat to Mudcamper for his patience and insight.
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  #636  
Old 10-01-2013, 2:04 PM
kajacobs19 kajacobs19 is offline
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Default Trap Shooting

I am planning on going to Tahoe NF. I will be target shooting there, but I also wanted to know if it is ok to do trap shooting as well. Target shooting you would have a backstop, but in trap shooting I wasn't sure if you could. Does anyone know the rules on trap shooting with a shotgun in a NF?
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  #637  
Old 10-14-2013, 8:49 AM
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silverbullets silverbullets is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YZINGERR View Post
As I understand it, CCW is allowed with permit, but all others are SOL. I have packed heat into the park while camping. May not be smart (prob a fed crime), but I'd rather be stupid than dead (or have one of my kids be killed). Im not telling you to do it, I'm just stating what I have heard.
You are allowed to open carry (unloaded) in the back country of the park, not in the villiage. If you have any questions call the Groveland Ranger Station (after the government shutdown of course) and they will fill you in on specifics
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  #638  
Old 11-01-2013, 4:47 PM
Vetack Vetack is offline
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Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
coyote season is open all year, and handguns are a legal method of take
I live in the middle of two types of BLM areas:
#1: Land that is "Closed to all shooting except shotguns firing shot no larger that 1/2 the diameter of the bore"
#2: Land that is "Open to shooting and open to night shooting"

Am I correct that the BLM's position after AB144, is that:
I can LUCC on land #1.
I can UOC or LOC on land #2.
I can UCC or LCC on land #2 if I have a hunting license
.


I frequently hike, camp, shoot, etc, etc, in these areas, and I would like to know I am doing the right thing.
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  #639  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:10 PM
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MudCamper MudCamper is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vetack View Post
I live in the middle of two types of BLM areas:
#1: Land that is "Closed to all shooting except shotguns firing shot no larger that 1/2 the diameter of the bore"
#2: Land that is "Open to shooting and open to night shooting"

Am I correct that the BLM's position after AB144, is that:
I can LUCC on land #1.
I can UOC or LOC on land #2.
I can UCC or LCC on land #2 if I have a hunting license
.
I agree with these statements.
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FPC, CGF, SAF, Madison, NRA, CRPA - CCW DENIED by SCSO
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  #640  
Old 11-14-2013, 5:51 AM
bbbppc bbbppc is offline
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Can you uoc in land #2 while driving on an unpaved road? Or have unloaded rifles pistols on the seat non-cased?
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