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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2013, 5:05 PM
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Default leaving gun in car?

I applied for my CCW a little over 2 weeks ago so I obviously haven't yet taken the required CCW training. If I had, this question would probably have been answered by the instructor. If I were driving around doing errands and stopped at the post office what could I legally do with the gun on my hip? I know that I can't carry on post office property, and I think that it's not legal to leave a loaded gun unattended in my car, so what is a person supposed to do in these situations?

Kim
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Old 06-12-2013, 5:10 PM
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Without ccw. All handgun must be lock inside a container when traveling
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Old 06-12-2013, 5:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claws View Post
I think that it's not legal to leave a loaded gun unattended in my car,
Why do you think that?

If you did NOT have LTC, that would be a problem. Similarly, if another person, who did not have LTC with that particular weapon listed on the license, would have access to the gun, that would be a problem.
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Old 06-12-2013, 5:28 PM
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Where can I carry
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=338205
Post Office property has been debated for quite some time. Since parking lot is part of property, you would have to secure firearm before even pulling in.
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Old 06-12-2013, 5:52 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys. My question applies to a CCW license holder which I hope to soon be. If upon arriving at USPS property, but before entering same, can I remove my weapon from my holster and leave it in my locked vehicle while I go into the post office to buy some stamps? Would I be breaking the law by leaving a loaded gun in my car even though I would be licensed to CCW?


Kim
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Old 06-12-2013, 6:00 PM
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How about a handgun safe bolted under the seat? Quick open and in or out.

Just gotta worry about someone seeing this action and calling in a brandishing 911.
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Old 06-12-2013, 6:59 PM
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I use a Microvault. Was <$25. Stashes in the center console and has a cable tether to the seat frame. Without tools it would be tough to defeat in less than 30 seconds. With tools, it's gone instantly.
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Old 06-12-2013, 7:17 PM
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I park in a legal spot and drop my handgun on the floorboard or the pocket of the driver's door. If I'm going to be gone long there's a handgun safe cabled to the passenger seat and I lock it then slide it under.

Stupid restrictions don't mean I have to go unprotected everywhere else.
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Old 06-12-2013, 7:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claws View Post
Would I be breaking the law by leaving a loaded gun in my car even though I would be licensed to CCW?
Given the owner/driver has LTC, no law of which I am aware would be violated by leaving a loaded gun in a car.

There are places where no guns should be at all, though those are rare and pretty obvious; for example, the grounds of a state prison, including parking.
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Old 06-12-2013, 8:23 PM
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My local grocery store has a shipping window that can handle most of my shipping needs. For trips to the post office my pistol is locked in a micro vault.
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Old 06-13-2013, 6:36 AM
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This was brought up in CCW renewal for San Bernardino. Both deputies recommended locking the weapon up with the ammo separated, just like you didn't have a CCW for normal transport.
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Old 06-13-2013, 6:47 AM
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My post office has easy street parking, so I park on street and place it in the GunVault. This keeps other from having access as I am the only one with the key so it remains in my control.

Ge something like this
http://www.amazon.com/GunVault-NV200...s=gunvault+200

Get one for each car and just leave it in there, best gun accessory purchase I have made other than a holster.

It also works well if you are out and decide to get snockered and are not going home first.

Last edited by Thunder; 06-13-2013 at 6:49 AM..
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
This was brought up in CCW renewal for San Bernardino. Both deputies recommended locking the weapon up with the ammo separated, just like you didn't have a CCW for normal transport.
FUD

In CA even without a CCW you can keep ammunition, including loaded magazines with the firearm provided it is inside an appropriate locked container. See CA CHP website for legal pistol transport. Note: It might be prudent to keep ammo in different location for a variety of reasons including bad bust/ bad LEO where the the mag "just happens to slip into the firearm" after being pulled over.
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:35 AM
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In regards to the post office my instructor (RivCO) read the PC and under exemptions for carry he read "other lawful purposes" as an exemption for CCW in federal building like PO. He said with a CCW and are non-LEO you are legally carrying for "other lawful purposes.

He is not a lawyer and I am sure people disagree but considering all the CG input that says otherwise I was surprised to hear that.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomkat View Post
How about a handgun safe bolted under the seat? Quick open and in or out.

Just gotta worry about someone seeing this action and calling in a brandishing 911.
And the 911 caller would be WRONG.
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Old 06-13-2013, 1:46 PM
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I drop mine in the center console. Do my business inside, re-holster in my car, exit the parking lot.

But I have been told many times by LEO...

You CCW permit is only valid if you are within IMMEDIATE control of you firearm. Having it in your center console, on the floor, under your seat, or any other fashion NOT LOCKED IN A CONTAINER (like you would normally transport a handgun under CA law) while you were out of the vehicle would be illegal.

Now, I dont care really in a short scenario like that, i.e. Post Office, County Building, Or other businesses that are "firearm free zones".

That is just what I've been told.
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Old 06-13-2013, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie50 View Post
FUD

In CA even without a CCW you can keep ammunition, including loaded magazines with the firearm provided it is inside an appropriate locked container. See CA CHP website for legal pistol transport. Note: It might be prudent to keep ammo in different location for a variety of reasons including bad bust/ bad LEO where the the mag "just happens to slip into the firearm" after being pulled over.
Ok, rolleyes, do you have a CCW? FUD not, I only repeated what the deputies in renewal class said. I didn't say it wasn't against some code. You do what you want
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdawg86 View Post
In regards to the post office my instructor (RivCO) read the PC and under exemptions for carry he read "other lawful purposes" as an exemption for CCW in federal building like PO. He said with a CCW and are non-LEO you are legally carrying for "other lawful purposes.

He is not a lawyer and I am sure people disagree but considering all the CG input that says otherwise I was surprised to hear that.
Read the "Where can I carry..." sticky in this forum. There is a link that discusses Post Office carry that may change your mind.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:31 PM
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Your a big boy. Check the law for yourself. If you chose to listen to others and you carry somewhere your not suppose to, you pay the price - not them.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:40 PM
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Thanks for all of the replies. I don't have a problem with purchasing a "gun vault" for my car and removing my pistol from it's holster and depositing it in a gun vault while going into the post office. The problem I envision is while removing the magazine, racking the slide to remove the chambered round, and putting the gun in the vault and magazine somewhere else, I run the risk of an onlooker seeing all of this and calling the cops. I was hoping for a simpler solution, but I'm beginning to believe that the law doesn't allow for a common sense way to obey the law. Guess I'll just leave the gun at home if I need to go to the post office or any other place that prohibits concealed carry.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
Ok, rolleyes, do you have a CCW? FUD not, I only repeated what the deputies in renewal class said. I didn't say it wasn't against some code. You do what you want
Highlander51 I do have an LTC, but that has nothing to do with my comment. The issue is repeating the FUD spoken by "a couple of deputies". What you said was.... "This was brought up in CCW renewal for San Bernardino. Both deputies recommended locking the weapon up with the ammo separated, just like you didn't have a CCW for normal transport."

That is flat out wrong. Even a non-CCWer does not need to separate the ammo from the firearm in locked container in CA. Folks get enough bad and confusing info out there, even from LEOs who should know the law. I apologize for the rolleye thing... too much coffee.


Getting back to the ops specific concern I use a cabled locked box and slip it under the seat if for some reason I can't carry (not often). Normally I unload the weapon but I don't always. It depend on circumstance, location, time away from vehicle. My normal ride is a pick-up so I don't have a trunk, in a perfect world I would put the locked box, cabled in the trunk and call it secure... for a reasonable amount of time. YTMV depending on the crappy factor of a particular neighborhood.
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Old 06-13-2013, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb7706 View Post
Read the "Where can I carry..." sticky in this forum. There is a link that discusses Post Office carry that may change your mind.
I wasn't saying I was taking his advice, nor do I plan to post office carry. I have read that thread, hence the surprise in hearing the instructor's take on it.
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Old 06-13-2013, 6:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie50 View Post
The issue is repeating the FUD spoken by "a couple of deputies". What you said was.... "This was brought up in CCW renewal for San Bernardino. Both deputies recommended locking the weapon up with the ammo separated, just like you didn't have a CCW for normal transport."

That is flat out wrong. Even a non-CCWer does not need to separate the ammo from the firearm in locked container in CA. Folks get enough bad and confusing info out there, even from LEOs who should know the law. I
Well, you can email the San Bernardino Sheriffs Dept at the business office and tell them their deputies are wrong. Let everyone know how that works out for your if you get pulled over down here....
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:03 PM
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I call BS. Who buys stamps anymore?
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdawg86 View Post
In regards to the post office my instructor (RivCO) read the PC and under exemptions for carry he read "other lawful purposes" as an exemption for CCW in federal building like PO. He said with a CCW and are non-LEO you are legally carrying for "other lawful purposes.

He is not a lawyer and I am sure people disagree but considering all the CG input that says otherwise I was surprised to hear that.
He needs to read the federal Regulation. It does not say anything about "other lawful purposes".

39 CFR 232.1
(l) Weapons and explosives . Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law,
rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms,
other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or
concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.


You must have an official purpose, not an "other lawful purpose", for carrying on postal property. Mailing Christmas cards won't cut it. Good Cause of personal protection isn't "an official purpose".

Cheers,

JR
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdock View Post
I drop mine in the center console. Do my business inside, re-holster in my car, exit the parking lot.

But I have been told many times by LEO...

You CCW permit is only valid if you are within IMMEDIATE control of you firearm. Having it in your center console, on the floor, under your seat, or any other fashion NOT LOCKED IN A CONTAINER (like you would normally transport a handgun under CA law) while you were out of the vehicle would be illegal.

Now, I dont care really in a short scenario like that, i.e. Post Office, County Building, Or other businesses that are "firearm free zones".

That is just what I've been told.
Bringing the firearm into the parking lot is a violation, even if it's locked up.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:32 PM
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You will not be violating Penal Codes 12025 and 12031 by leaving your firearm in your car if you have a CCW. Now is it smart to leave a loaded firearm inside your vehicle for a few minutes. That depends on where you are located and how bad is the crime in your area.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
Well, you can email the San Bernardino Sheriffs Dept at the business office and tell them their deputies are wrong. Let everyone know how that works out for your if you get pulled over down here....
Just because they are deputies does not mean they know every detail of the laws. You will be surprised how many California cops still believe in the 3 finger rule when it comes knives.

There are too many penal codes and vehicle codes to remember every detail of the laws. That is why they have Qwik-Code books.
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Old 06-14-2013, 5:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cuchillo negro View Post
Just because they are deputies does not mean they know every detail of the laws.
My permit is issued from San Bernardino. Deputy Dog and Deputy Blog be say 'Lock that piece up, n schit' I be say'n, yesum boss, I be lock'n it up, n schit.
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Old 06-14-2013, 6:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claws View Post
Thanks for all of the replies. I don't have a problem with purchasing a "gun vault" for my car and removing my pistol from it's holster and depositing it in a gun vault while going into the post office. The problem I envision is while removing the magazine, racking the slide to remove the chambered round, and putting the gun in the vault and magazine somewhere else, I run the risk of an onlooker seeing all of this and calling the cops. I was hoping for a simpler solution, but I'm beginning to believe that the law doesn't allow for a common sense way to obey the law. Guess I'll just leave the gun at home if I need to go to the post office or any other place that prohibits concealed carry.
Are you comfortable manipulating your firearm by touch only? I do this in my lap with a towel over it, when situation requires.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
Are you comfortable manipulating your firearm by touch only? I do this in my lap with a towel over it, when situation requires.

Ouch, not this guy.
I do not unload my firearm if I need to disarm in my vehicle before entering a prohibited location.
I remove my pistol, keeping it in the holster, and place the whole thing in a lock box tethered to the seat frame.
To do otherwise is unsafe and should be avoided.

Where do you think that thing is pointing while in your lap?
There a very few safe places to point a pistol while in your car.
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--- Jeff Cooper, June 1990

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Originally Posted by EM2
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EM2 View Post
I do not unload my firearm if I need to disarm in my vehicle before entering a prohibited location.
I remove my pistol, keeping it in the holster, and place the whole thing in a lock box tethered to the seat frame.
Pretty much this. My holster doesn't fit into my lock box but I always remove the holster from my body before removing the pistol from the holster and immediately placing it in my lock box.

Then the reverse happens when I get back to the car. Pistol goes back in holster and reinstalled in my waistband as a single unit.

Far too many possible obstructions in my relatively small car with bucket seats to holster while seated which is typically a bad idea in just about all situations anyway.
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Old 06-14-2013, 2:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
Are you comfortable manipulating your firearm by touch only? I do this in my lap with a towel over it, when situation requires.
http://tinyurl.com/2d3ndht
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Old 06-16-2013, 4:38 PM
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LOL took me a second to realize that link sent me off to a 'rim-shot' joke soundclip.
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Old 06-17-2013, 1:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EM2 View Post
Ouch, not this guy.
I do not unload my firearm if I need to disarm in my vehicle before entering a prohibited location.
I remove my pistol, keeping it in the holster, and place the whole thing in a lock box tethered to the seat frame.
To do otherwise is unsafe and should be avoided.

Where do you think that thing is pointing while in your lap?
There a very few safe places to point a pistol while in your car.
I think I have posted here in other spots that I hardly ever unload my carry even when locking it up in the car.
The dude wants it unloaded, its not what I do but if he is going to do it may as well find him a solution to get it done.

And it can be done without pointing it at your junk.
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Old 06-17-2013, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
I think I have posted here in other spots that I hardly ever unload my carry even when locking it up in the car.
The dude wants it unloaded, its not what I do but if he is going to do it may as well find him a solution to get it done.

And it can be done without pointing it at your junk.

Still not a safe options and I recommend against it whenever possible.
We need not be fumbling around, trying to catch an ejecting round, keep hidden from prying eyes, etc. with a loaded firearm in our cars.

I tried this method for a while till I decided the risk was much lower to just simply lock up the loaded weapon when needed.
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Old 06-18-2013, 7:14 AM
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I have had the need to do it a few times. Mostly involves me getting a drink while out. The laws as I read them and more importantly my permit is not valid when consuming so I need to transport my firearm as a non CCW holder in that case.

In the past this has been at the river or other outdoors spots where finding a suitable room do get this done is quite the problem. The hardest part of the whole procedure was unholstering while seated. I found it easy to just remove the gun in holster and then move it horizontal to me and work there. I also don't try and catch the ejected round. It will fall on the seat between my legs, worst off on the floor where I can get it when done.

The procedure has risk, yes; but if done smart and pointed safely no more than typical loaded gun handling.
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Old 06-18-2013, 7:28 AM
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I usually leave the gun home when I need to go to the post office (which isn't that often). Couple of times when I didn't, I parked across the street, took LCR out of pocket still holstered, unloaded, locked it up. Simpler with a revolver.

Using the mail counter at the supermarket, no such issues.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
I have had the need to do it a few times. Mostly involves me getting a drink while out. The laws as I read them and more importantly my permit is not valid when consuming so I need to transport my firearm as a non CCW holder in that case.

You may want to be careful about that and maybe rethink this.
Not sure of the legal issues fully but we were advised during LTC class not to even have access to the firearm if you are going to be drinking. Locking it up would still afford you access to the firearm while drinking.
Perhaps someone on here would know more of the legal implications.
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Quote:
"The 'Spray and Pray' system advances triumphantly in law enforcement. In a recent case in a southwestern city...a police officer, when threatened with a handgun, emptied his 15 shot pistol at his would-be assailant, achieving two peripheral hits. The citizen was charged with brandishing a firearm, but the cop was not charged with anything, lousy shooting not being a diciplinary offense."
--- Jeff Cooper, June 1990

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Originally Posted by EM2
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  #40  
Old 06-18-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EM2 View Post
You may want to be careful about that and maybe rethink this.
Not sure of the legal issues fully but we were advised during LTC class not to even have access to the firearm if you are going to be drinking. Locking it up would still afford you access to the firearm while drinking.
Perhaps someone on here would know more of the legal implications.
There are no legal implications.

Penal Code is entirely silent on alcohol/concealed carry.

One's issuing agency may have a strong opinion. Should an adverse event occur, one side might argue some kind of negligence may have been involved.

And I would think it unwise to carry in public and consume alcohol.
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