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CGSSA Shoots, Meets and Range Stories Set up and organize shoots and meets and share your shooting range stories.

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  #1  
Old 05-23-2013, 6:30 PM
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Default Shooting on tribal land

When shooting on tribal land, do all California laws still apply? I have a range down the road from me on the Pala reservation. It's a great range... but with all the new laws coming out of committee, not sure where I'll feel comfortable shooting without the fear of interrogation.
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Old 05-23-2013, 7:12 PM
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I've done some shooting on tribal land, but it wasn't a full on range. It was set up by tribal members for tribal members. The only way I was able to shoot there was by invitation. My grandson is a tribal member. I don't push the envelope as far as shooting there, I don't ask.

As far as CA. laws I'm not sure, never asked. I would think Federal laws would apply.
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Old 05-23-2013, 7:15 PM
Kinsel83 Kinsel83 is offline
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I personally wouldn't step on their land to do any shooting. Not worth the potential trouble.
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Old 05-23-2013, 7:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kinsel83 View Post
I personally wouldn't step on their land to do any shooting. Not worth the potential trouble.
Its an established range. The land is leased from the tribe and I've never seen any shady types around. Not that I'm na´ve to the potential though. I'm a good boyscout

What I'm asking about is the fact that there are military and potential LEO's that frequent the range to take advantage of the fact it's the only range with target past 100 yds in North County.

So, if I'm at a range on tribal land, does an off-duty LEO have the right to walk up and start questioning me about the configuration / legality of my property? ex. would I have to prove I'm using 10/30's? Or that my BB hasn't been disabled?
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Old 05-23-2013, 7:54 PM
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State LEO's in CA are LEO's 24x7x365, legally speaking.

The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments are also in effect 24x7x365.

State laws apply on tribal land. Actually enforced? You need local information, may be on a case-by-case basis.

Don't shoot on tribal land without tribal pemission. If they've leased land to a shooting range, that sounds like permission, at least while you're at the range.
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Old 05-23-2013, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by <blocked> View Post
When shooting on tribal land, do all California laws still apply? I have a range down the road from me on the Pala reservation. It's a great range... but with all the new laws coming out of committee, not sure where I'll feel comfortable shooting without the fear of interrogation.
So you are a member of the private range at Pala? So are alot of other people. Lots of LEO are members. And yes, if they identify themselves and show you a badge, they can ask anything they want. So can the Tribal Police.
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Old 05-23-2013, 8:04 PM
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Since a reservation is considered a sovereign nation, I would be worried about being under their perseved laws. I know contractors who did work on local reservations, and were not paid, when they took the reservations to court, the court said it was not their venue and would have to take the matter up with tribal court. To make matters worse, the subcontractors took the contractor to court, and he lost and had to pay them, even though the tribe did not pay him. So, I am Leary of anything on a reservation.
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Old 05-23-2013, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by HighLander51 View Post
So you are a member of the private range at Pala? So are alot of other people. Lots of LEO are members. And yes, if they identify themselves and show you a badge, they can ask anything they want. So can the Tribal Police.
They can ask... anyone can ask...But do they have power to arrest? Isn't reservation land a "sovereign nation" ruled by tribal law? Thus the existence of the tribal police?
I've never really understood the relationship between the tribes and SD Sheriffs. I know the SDSD doesn't patrol or respond to calls on the reservations but they work with the tribal police around the casinos and on the county roads. I can see them posting up down the road and waiting for someone to leave the reservation though.
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Old 05-23-2013, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ;11417668
When shooting on tribal land, do all California laws still apply? I have a range down the road from me on the Pala reservation. It's a great range... but with all the new laws coming out of committee, not sure where I'll feel comfortable shooting without the fear of interrogation.
On Tribal Land , Reservation Laws.
The FBI can enforce laws , their Federal
Local,State, County need Tribal permission to do their work there, most times they get it.

Tribal Police will enforce all their laws , and they have their own set of rules.
Tribal Courts do not like it when anyone breaks their laws , and most tribes have special laws regarding firearms on tribal land ( reservation).

Learn them all , obey them all , and make sure to ask permission from the tribal police or council to CYA.

My tribal laws state No Firearms without permit on tribal lands , good luck if your not a good friend or relative of a tribal member.( sort of like getting an LTC in SF)
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Last edited by Capt.Dunsel; 05-23-2013 at 8:58 PM..
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Dunsel View Post
On Tribal Land , Reservation Laws.
The FBI can enforce laws , their Federal
Local,State, County need Tribal permission to do their work there, most times they get it.

Tribal Police will enforce all their laws , and they have their own set of rules.
Tribal Courts do not like it when anyone breaks their laws , and most tribes have special laws regarding firearms on tribal land ( reservation).

Learn them all , obey them all , and make sure to ask permission from the tribal police or council to CYA.

My tribal laws state No Firearms without permit on tribal lands , good luck if your not a good friend or relative of a tribal member.( sort of like getting an LTC in SF)
Thank you! This sounds much more in line with what my experience has been on the local reservations over the years. Where would I get a copy of the firearms laws? At the tribal hall or tribal police station?
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Old 05-23-2013, 9:33 PM
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Either place can help you.
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Old 05-24-2013, 5:53 AM
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but with all the new laws coming out of committee, not sure where I'll feel comfortable shooting without the fear of interrogation.
I guess it doesn't bother the 100's of shooters who go for the USPSA, 3 gun and Steel Matches?
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Old 05-24-2013, 7:51 AM
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I guess it doesn't bother the 100's of shooters who go for the USPSA, 3 gun and Steel Matches?
How many of them are aware of the proposed laws coming out of committee? All it takes is one rookie. It happened over the hill at the DF&G...
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  #14  
Old 05-24-2013, 8:24 AM
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Look up PL 280 and see if it's addressed.
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Old 05-24-2013, 9:04 AM
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Originally Posted by deadcoyote View Post
Look up PL 280 and see if it's addressed.
Yep,

Criminal Jurisdiction on Indian Reservations (Indian Country)





States without PL 280

States with PL 280


Tribal


Over Indians, subject to limits in Indian Civil Rights Act (ICRA)


Over Indians, subject to limits in Indian Civil Rights Act (ICRA)

Federal
Over major crimes committed by Indians (Major Crimes Act); Over interracial crime: Indian v. non-Indian (General Crimes Act); Over special liquor, gaming, and other offenses; otherwise, same as Off-Reservation
Same as Off-Reservation

State
Only over crimes committed by non-Indians against other non-Indians Over Indians and non-Indians generally, with exceptions found in Public Law 280
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:10 PM
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PL 280 was in effect where I worked up north. I worked on an rezervation for 6 years, not as a tribal employee but as an outside agency assigned to the area. I did not file in tribal court, follow tribal ordinances etc. Plain old CA Penal Code, trip to county, our superior Court etc.
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Old 05-25-2013, 1:18 PM
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"What I'm asking about is the fact that there are military and potential LEO's that frequent the range to take advantage of the fact it's the only range with target past 100 yds in North County."

Well actually...Escondido Fish and Game has a 150yd range, but you have to be a member or guest of a member. I know it's not the distances they have at Pala though.

Last edited by Cheep; 05-25-2013 at 8:12 PM..
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  #18  
Old 06-17-2013, 12:11 PM
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In regards to the Pala Shooting Range, I went there once to try it out and see if I would be interested in joining. I have to say that this place is a dump. Not only that but I was treated very rudely. I was asking questions about the club, and they acted like I was trying to pee in their cornflakes. On top of that they had the balls to badmouth my Weatherby Ultramarks I brought out. Saying that they are way overated, and overpriced. What a bunch of losers.

Last edited by JMcLntk; 06-17-2013 at 2:46 PM..
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