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  #81  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Iknownot View Post
Say what you will about the DRM policy on the xbox one, but once again, MS is presenting a well thought out, unified idea for what their console is supposed to do, as opposed to sony, which seems, yet again to have gone, "our console needs "x" amount of features, because the competition has "x" amount, with not much real thought or focus or honing of those features.

I mean, I watched the PSn features vid and all I really saw, besides the video sharing, is the fact that after 8 years, PSn is finally getting unified LIVE features.

This is not a rip on Sony per se, but just the simple fact that both companies have had very different ideas on how to approach their console. Sony was much more comfortable with getting the console out as is and then refining things later where as MS had a unified idea that they worked towards perfecting over the console life cycle.

Now, you may not be happy with the DRM on the xbox one. I don't like certain aspects of it. However, if it works as is being indicated, it could be a pretty amazing experience. being able to share games with 10 other people in your "group" is pretty awesome. Have a buddy with a game you want to try, it's in the cloud and bam, you start it up on your console. Have a game you want to play at a buddies house? It's in the cloud. Go to their house and start it up.

Buy one game, and play it on any xbox one you have. That means you can play it on your xbox one and your kids can play it on theirs, if they have one. All your games preloaded and updated means you can hot swap on the fly if you want to change games. No more swapping discs.

All that sounds fine with me.

There have also been more reports as developers have been talking about the xbox one, of how the cloud makes a difference for them in their games. The titan fall devs, for example, are offloading physics calculations and preventing things like PvP latency using the cloud. As devs get used to programming this way, it could free up more and more of the actual on board processor the xbox one has for the tasks the console actually needs to do. So in terms of raw processing power, the difference between the two consoles may not end up being that much, taking the cloud into account.

Finally, when it comes to kinect, say what you will about it, but the way the features are integrated this time around, it is pretty impressive. The voice control, the swapping between apps, skype, games, tv, etc, all on they fly, that's nothing to sneeze at. That is a real feature set that the PS4 is less strong with. Yes, kinect is packed in and mandatory, but that also means it will be supported by all devs for all games.

How many games do you think the PS4 camera is going to support in the end, since people have to buy it? You may not want it, and that is fine, but it is the difference between the camera being a peripheral (and probably not generally supported) and kinect actually being a feature of the xbox one console.

I mean look at Ryse. You can play the game the traditional way with a controller. However, if you want, you can issue voice commands to your troops using the kinect. Direct archers, or raise shields, or whatever. That makes for a game experience with more immersion and that is only because kinect is there so all devs can depend no being able to support it because every one has it. Who's going to bother adding in camera support on Sony's side of things, if 1/3 or 1/2 the people have a camera?

That has always been the problem with peripherals.

I wouldn't knock anyone picking a PS4 over and Xbox One. Sony has made a very viable console. The fact that the price point is $100 less than the Xbox one, I think is the biggest point in favor of it. It also has more raw power with regards to the specs. However, to dismiss the xbox one feature set out of hand, like MS some how screwed things up instead of sat down to really decide what they want the console to be able to do, is just silly.

That's not to say gamers won't reject MS's vision and go with the PS4 instead, but it's not like MS has come out with some Pile of a console.

It's very well thought out, and at least from what I saw of both E3 conferences, I don't see any difference in graphical capabilities in the games (which may come later I admit), so I'm not sure how much the spec differences really make at launch time. Features-wise, and if we're being honest, exclusive games-wise and new IPs-wise, the Xbox is the stronger of the two consoles. Value-wise, for what you get with the $100 less buy in price, the Ps4 is the stronger of the two consoles.

The interesting thing, come November, is to see if people are going to be willing to pay the extra money to get what MS is offering in terms of features on the Xbox One.
Very well said sir, this is basically what I was trying to convey although I wasn't as successful as you where. Just be prepared to have some people start calling you names like little girls for making an intelligent well thought out post.
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  #82  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMax View Post
Very well said sir, this is basically what I was trying to convey although I wasn't as successful as you where. Just be prepared to have some people start calling you names like little girls for making an intelligent well thought out post.
It wouldn't be any different than the last two gens when it came to Sony Vs MS consoles.
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  #83  
Old 06-13-2013, 1:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fighterpilot562 View Post
...

I sit here and wonder, what made Microsoft think this was a good idea? They got so greedy and controlling that they are doing all these restrictions and other BS stuff...
It's greed, along with control for sure, and they want it... just like politicians think they need to control/limit 2A rights, while they ask why anyone NEEDS and AR platform...

This control-freaking is rampant EVERYWHERE, and must be tied to this sense of entitlement that is rabid with monkeys everywhere these days. They probably require the 24 hour checkup to make sure people don't mod the devices. I played my banned 360 for a long time before I even tried to plug it in to the network.
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  #84  
Old 06-13-2013, 1:03 PM
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This gaming console is a home surveillance device..
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  #85  
Old 06-13-2013, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
It's greed, along with control for sure, and they want it... just like politicians think they need to control/limit 2A rights, while they ask why anyone NEEDS and AR platform...
I disagree with you that the primary motivation is greed. I'm sure MS wants to make money, as any business does, but I don't think their intent is to screw over anyone.

I think they, just like anyone else who's been dealing with the internet for the past 10 years, sees that digital distribution is the way gaming is going to go in the very near future. Physical media is going to go away. I think anyone who's used Steam would easily agree with that. So MS is being forward looking. Sure, they may be ushering it in a half gen early, but if you really look at what they are doing with the DRM, the always connected, the 24 hour check in, the automatic downloads and updates, the sharing of games, etc, you can see they are trying to create a unified, well thought out, robust digital delivery back bone, that they can also use for other things like computing in the cloud which will benefit the console in general.

Sony went, "what we did last gen is good enough for us," and MS took a look at what Amazon's being doing with the kindle, and Apple's being doing with apps, and Steam has been doing with PC games and MS said, that's the way things are going and we need our own plan to offer the best features we can once every thing goes digital.

You may disagree with that vision. If so, then sony has the console for you. I for one, am very interested in some of the features MS is going to be offering on the xbox one. The cloud computing and games in the cloud features, I think will be a plus to owning the console.

Obviously, we still need to wait closer to launch to really see the details, but so far, I'm not seeing so much bad with what MS has proposed, and a lot of really interesting good stuff.

Is the 24 hour period too stringent? I personally think so. I would like to see it increased to a week or whatever. Is that a deal breaker for me? probably not. My xboxes (xbox and X360) have been hooked up to the internet 24/7 since LIVE first launched 12 years ago.
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  #86  
Old 06-13-2013, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Iknownot View Post
...
Buy one game, and play it on any xbox one you have. That means you can play it on your xbox one and your kids can play it on theirs, if they have one. All your games preloaded and updated means you can hot swap on the fly if you want to change games...
The problem is nobody really knows anything in detail...

Is a game purchased per console? Can kids play at a different IP than the account holder's IP under the same Live subscription but different account? Can we buy used xBones, or even activate used xBones? Sell/transfer ownership of them? Is a Live subscription required to be GOLD and current/actively paid yearly for the device to work, or does the xBone stop working completely after 24 hours? Can you stream Netflix after the year subscription runs out and you don't want to ante-up again, OR if you don't want a subscription at all?

I tend to play games that do not interact with others like the Fallout series, Bioshock series, and only play maybe 3 months part-time, and won't play again for 3 months after I beat a game so an active Live subscription is not worth it for me. Hell on the 360 without an active subscription I cannot even use my 360 to watch Netflix, as I have ZERO need for a subscription, so I am denied the use of Netflix on a 360's I already own (of course the banned 360 is not referenced here) and by son cannot use IE on his 360, as he does not have a live subscription. It seems like M$ is nickel-and-dimming to death... just like everybody else, but less is known about ANY specifics, other than PS4 would be a better option for those who have been limited by M$ a device they have owned in the past...
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Last edited by the86d; 06-13-2013 at 1:56 PM..
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  #87  
Old 06-13-2013, 1:59 PM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
The problem is nobody really knows anything, and nothing has really really explained in detail anywhere, like they are still making it up as they say it...

Is a game purchased per console? Can kids play at a different IP than the account holder's IP under the same Live subscription but different account? Can we buy used xBones, or even activate used xBones? Sell/transfer ownership of them? Is a Live subscription required to be GOLD and current/actively paid yearly for the device to work, or does the xBone stop working completely after 24 hours? Can you stream Netflix after the year subscription runs out and you don't want to ante-up again, OR if you don't want a subscription at all?
I don't want to cut and paste as I don't have the time for it, but MS has answered a lot of those questions, in general. I think to expect LIVE to be different in terms of subscription costs and things like Netflix usage, considering LIVE has been an established infrastructure for 11 years is wishful thinking. Maybe MS will move netflix outside of the pay wall and maybe MS will offer more features for free, but to expect it, I don't think so.

As for the new features, MS has said you can share games with 10 people in your "group". MS has said you can play any game you own on 2 consoles at the same time. MS has said all your games are install on the HDD required and that any game you own will also be available on the cloud. They said you will be able to go to a friend's house and play any game you own. They said that you can also buy physical discs and that you will be able to resell them at least once, or lend or trade them once to someone on your friends list.

Yes, we still need the fine details, but so far, I'm seeing a DRM structure that is trying to balance digital delivery with ease of use and cloud functionality.

Last edited by Iknownot; 06-13-2013 at 2:02 PM..
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  #88  
Old 06-13-2013, 2:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dattebayo View Post
Anyone that was born in the 80's should have enough know how to design a computer home system that will be much more robust, better performing, and cheaper than any console home system.

Microsoft I feel is targeting a market that has little to no technological bearing. The people that are technologically savvy questions why you are paying for services that are already free on the internet? Heck, I don't even have TV service as internet streams don't require to set a DVR record time and you watch it when it is convenient for you and for FREE. Movies? Letmewatchthis.com.
I agree, and the market that Microsoft is targeting is a large portion of American homes. Also, the more robuts and cheaper system that you've just built cannot interface with your fridge ... or your dryer ... what about your home security system?

It wasn't until recently that 50% of homes in the U.S. have Internet access. A small minority of that 50% is technologically savvy. With that said, Microsoft's target market is larger than one would expect. Additionally, a portion of the technologically savvy would want to venture into the all-in-one boxes. That only increases the target market.

And why would anybody want to pay for a service that you already get for free? Answer this: why is Netflix making millions? Why is anyone dumb enough to pay for something that YOU could find online for free?

Last edited by NytWolf; 06-13-2013 at 2:10 PM..
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  #89  
Old 06-13-2013, 2:30 PM
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I'm really tired of the pay for LIVE vs free for PSn argument anyway. It's been 11 years already.

Would I prefer LIVE to be free? Of course, however I can hardly begrudge the $5 a month for the unified, across all games, system that MS has set up. It works every time, across any game, and everyone uses it because anyone who has signed up for it wants the features and the devs know this.

It is very clear that LIVE was the better of the two online systems. People that wanted the best online experience on a console had no issue with paying for LIVE. Should things like netflix be moved outside the pay wall? Yes. Does it really matter to most people with an xbox, not really, because they are paying for LIVE anyway.

I, for one, do not see the difference between LIVE and PSn changing much for next gen. MS has a much more unified idea of what LIVE is supposed to do and has spent more money than sony on infrastructure over the past 11 years and is upgrading LIVE's back bone again for the cloud computing with more servers again, this time around.

I don't have a problem paying $5 a month for that.

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Why is anyone dumb enough to pay for something that YOU could find online for free?

As for that, i'm not sure what you are saying. If you are implying people willing to pay for LIVE are too stupid to figure out how to pirate stuff, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I will not download the things I want for free, even if I want them. If I don't want something bad enough to pay for it, then I simply make do with out it.

I'm not sure the sense of equating a free vs paid subscription service with a paid service vs illegally downloading things off the internet.

Last edited by Iknownot; 06-13-2013 at 2:42 PM..
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  #90  
Old 06-13-2013, 3:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Iknownot View Post
As for that, i'm not sure what you are saying. If you are implying people willing to pay for LIVE are too stupid to figure out how to pirate stuff, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I will not download the things I want for free, even if I want them. If I don't want something bad enough to pay for it, then I simply make do with out it.

I'm not sure the sense of equating a free vs paid subscription service with a paid service vs illegally downloading things off the internet.
It was my response to Dattebayo comment about streaming movies from the Internet for free. See above.
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  #91  
Old 06-13-2013, 3:25 PM
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So, to the current xbox owners, do you not leave your system hooked up to the network all the time anyways?

I do, and I don't feel this is an issue.

I have no issue with the camera and the mic.

You want to see a big guy in his undies watching tv?...go for it
I clean my guns while i watch TV. Plus microsoft's partnership with the NSA is no bueno. Tap my phones all you want but leave my damn console alone.
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  #92  
Old 06-13-2013, 4:52 PM
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  #93  
Old 06-13-2013, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMax View Post
I can say this for sure, people really hate the Xbox One, I mean a lot.

They really screwed up on this one, Sony has always been better at marketing there product but Microsoft really made it easy for them this time.

I watched both of the E3 events in full, really the games looked exactly on par with each other on both systems and that cracks me up because everyone is so offended with the DRM stuff that they are overlooking the Xbox One is going to have great looking games and that is what matters when you get down to it.

The things that people really hate the xbox one for don't effect me and Halo and Gears are some of my favorite franchises of all time so I am gonna get an Xbox One for those games alone.

A lot of this stuff is really being blown out of proportion as well. Most players are online all the time anyway and you can shut the camera off so that to me is a non issue.

All the DRM and disk stuff doesn't effect me either but it is still pretty offensive so I can see why people are pissed about that.

What really makes me mad is shoving Kinect down my throat, but no one really talks about that.
I don't really mind all of the other stuff but the kinect is what will stop me from being an early adopter. I don't care if Microsoft says you can turn it off, someone will be able to hack it and I don't want to be that person that gets hacked. If they decide to release a version that lets you save a few bucks and doesn't include the kinect then I might buy one. In the mean time I will keep playing 360.
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  #94  
Old 06-13-2013, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Sinister_1 View Post
So, to the current xbox owners, do you not leave your system hooked up to the network all the time anyways?

I do, and I don't feel this is an issue.

I have no issue with the camera and the mic.

You want to see a big guy in his undies watching tv?...go for it
So you never log out of Live or turn your Xbox off? Wow...

Anyways, this new xbox is sounding more effed up by the day...Microsoft is leaving the "no used games" thing up to the 3rd parties, and EA has already said that they will not allow used games to be sold or transferred through "non approved" parties. So basically the game designers/companies will decide if you can trade or sell their games without a fee. Its not up to xbox.

And yes, the machine will have to at least "call home" every 24 hours. I dont know if that means the machine will have to be on 24/7 or what but it sounds weird. You cant play games offline anymore either and must have at least a 1.5mb connection...
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Old 06-13-2013, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Iknownot View Post
I'm really tired of the pay for LIVE vs free for PSn argument anyway. It's been 11 years already.

Would I prefer LIVE to be free? Of course, however I can hardly begrudge the $5 a month for the unified, across all games, system that MS has set up. It works every time, across any game, and everyone uses it because anyone who has signed up for it wants the features and the devs know this.

It is very clear that LIVE was the better of the two online systems. People that wanted the best online experience on a console had no issue with paying for LIVE. Should things like netflix be moved outside the pay wall? Yes. Does it really matter to most people with an xbox, not really, because they are paying for LIVE anyway.

I, for one, do not see the difference between LIVE and PSn changing much for next gen. MS has a much more unified idea of what LIVE is supposed to do and has spent more money than sony on infrastructure over the past 11 years and is upgrading LIVE's back bone again for the cloud computing with more servers again, this time around.

I don't have a problem paying $5 a month for that.




As for that, i'm not sure what you are saying. If you are implying people willing to pay for LIVE are too stupid to figure out how to pirate stuff, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I will not download the things I want for free, even if I want them. If I don't want something bad enough to pay for it, then I simply make do with out it.

I'm not sure the sense of equating a free vs paid subscription service with a paid service vs illegally downloading things off the internet.
I kind of agree with you. $60 for a year isnt bad at all. LIVE has never let me down yet.

I dont agree with having to "check in" with MS every 24 hours though. And if you dont check in, you get banned and have to call MS and set your account up again, or something of the equivalent.

I also dont like the rules they will have on used games now. Freaking games are gonna be like $60-$70, thats alot of $$$. I dont feel I should have to pay to trade or buy used, on top of getting screwed from the dealer.
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  #96  
Old 06-13-2013, 6:32 PM
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Who gives a crap if it has to ping your system every 24 hours I don't get why this matters at all
I frequently don't have internet at home, and it frequently does not work for more than 24 hours at a time, and when it DOES work, it's so ridiculously slow that I can't stream a 6 second 144dpi youtube video without it freezing twice.

I live in the bottom of a canyon, and haven't had my PS3 hooked up to the internet in 3 years.
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Old 06-13-2013, 6:34 PM
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And anyways, the only thing I care about is if/when a new Fallout is coming out.

Fallout:New Vegas is PHENOMENAL.
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Old 06-13-2013, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by blazeaglory View Post
So you never log out of Live or turn your Xbox off? Wow...



And yes, the machine will have to at least "call home" every 24 hours. I dont know if that means the machine will have to be on 24/7 or what but it sounds weird. You cant play games offline anymore either and must have at least a 1.5mb connection...
No one freaks out when they have to sign into steam to play their PC games. All MS is doing is automating that process and having the console sign in once Ar night so the console is always authorized and ready to go.

Also, MS has said you can completlu shut the console down, if you want in functionality, except for a trickle to leave kinect on and able to respond only to " Xbox on"

Is there a possibility for your console to get hacked and to get spied on? Sure. But it's no more, than any other wifi Internet device with a camera and mic. Are you that worried abou your smart phone? Your laptop with built in camera? We all already have Internet enabled devices that have this danger.
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Iknownot View Post
No one freaks out when they have to sign into steam to play their PC games. All MS is doing is automating that process and having the console sign in once Ar night so the console is always authorized and ready to go.

Also, MS has said you can completlu shut the console down, if you want in functionality, except for a trickle to leave kinect on and able to respond only to " Xbox on"

Is there a possibility for your console to get hacked and to get spied on? Sure. But it's no more, than any other wifi Internet device with a camera and mic. Are you that worried abou your smart phone? Your laptop with built in camera? We all already have Internet enabled devices that have this danger.
Are you saying you prefer to be forced to have kinect?
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:37 PM
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Xbox One is junk just like the Xbox 360 is. Remember that the 360 came with a host of problems that were never fixed until multiple generations later. Over 2/3 of all consoles experienced some sort failure requiring refurbishing. (this was something that Microsoft was aware of before the console was offered to the public just so they could have something to put on the market)

The red ring of death................... just imagine that on the new Xbox One ....................... at least you don't have to pony up the extra coin for the external HD disk drive.
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  #101  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:28 PM
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This is turning into something like Android versus apple. One gives choice to the consumers while the other gives a consistent but limited set of "features".

I like the options of not having to pay M$ month to access Netflix. I don't play games with Kinect and don't feel that I should have to buy it.

DRMs can be used in many ways. M$ just choose to use it to capitalize on it at the expense of users. M$ can implement or let someone make a digital content selling/trading service but they choose not to. DRM on the disc to make sure it's genuine has been around for years and that does not require a constant online service. If the content itself has a DRM then you really don't own it, you are renting it. You can use the content as long as the DRM owner allows you to access it. I've never been fond of Steam because you don't own any content, steam just rents it out to you. If steam goes out of business tomorrow, you can't start your game. Those free daily amazon android apps only work when you are signed into your amazon account. It's like saying you paid for a gun but it's only yours if you come to our store to shoot. We have many stores you can shoot at but you can only shoot at our stores. It sounds great that you have access at all those locations but do you really own the gun then?

I have always like the freedom of choices, that's why my home is apple free. i have no interest in X1 because of the spying, control, and lack of ownership of content.
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  #102  
Old 06-14-2013, 6:48 AM
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Sony will be left further in the dust when it comes to the future of gaming technology. Fan boys will never accept that as Sony Reaches its 4th Generation console it has yet to move into the future.

It has been said before, anyone use steam? No physical media have to connect to the internet constantly to play. On top of that if you don't connect for 1-3 weeks like me. You connect, have an update to every single game and then, by the time it's done, you shut down the PC and don't even play a single minute

Microsoft has already said that if you have junk or no internet keep or buy the 360. People crying the most about the "ping the router" once a day, are posting every 5 minutes online on how much they hate it!!!! <- Yet they are online 24/7. It will not be a 4 hour connection verification process.

Here are some choices that I feel are available.

1. Buy Guns and Ammo, gaming is for children
2. PS3 and Xbox 360 are still alive and kicking, keep them. They wont auto combust once PS4 and Xbox One are released. Wait to see how well both consoles perform 6 months out before getting one.
3. Buy or don't buy a Xbox One
4. Buy or don't buy a capable stand alone gaming PS4
5. Live in the future of gaming, Xbox One will be revealed to be the real Skynet, JOIN NOW!!!!

Games will dictate who goes where. I personally do not buy used games, though I have given away games before. We will see how the DRM (friends and family) works out. I will get an Xbox One and a PS4, no matter how biased I am toward Sony, because it will have games that I want to play.
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  #103  
Old 06-14-2013, 7:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RamonSJC View Post
Sony will be left further in the dust when it comes to the future of gaming technology. Fan boys will never accept that as Sony Reaches its 4th Generation console it has yet to move into the future.

It has been said before, anyone use steam? No physical media have to connect to the internet constantly to play. On top of that if you don't connect for 1-3 weeks like me. You connect, have an update to every single game and then, by the time it's done, you shut down the PC and don't even play a single minute

Microsoft has already said that if you have junk or no internet keep or buy the 360. People crying the most about the "ping the router" once a day, are posting every 5 minutes online on how much they hate it!!!! <- Yet they are online 24/7. It will not be a 4 hour connection verification process.

Here are some choices that I feel are available.

1. Buy Guns and Ammo, gaming is for children
2. PS3 and Xbox 360 are still alive and kicking, keep them. They wont auto combust once PS4 and Xbox One are released. Wait to see how well both consoles perform 6 months out before getting one.
3. Buy or don't buy a Xbox One
4. Buy or don't buy a capable stand alone gaming PS4
5. Live in the future of gaming, Xbox One will be revealed to be the real Skynet, JOIN NOW!!!!

Games will dictate who goes where. I personally do not buy used games, though I have given away games before. We will see how the DRM (friends and family) works out. I will get an Xbox One and a PS4, no matter how biased I am toward Sony, because it will have games that I want to play.
Well said, sir.

So far, all comments are made from speculation or something they read or heard. Until the product is out and people actually start using it, everything said is pure speculation. Nobody knows the full details yet.

There is one thing that is sure though ... Sony is keeping the PS4 as a pure gaming console, while Microsoft is expanding the reach with the XBox One. People can't accept Microsoft as an innovator because it's easier to play David than it is to be Goliath.
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  #104  
Old 06-14-2013, 8:17 AM
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Well said, sir.

So far, all comments are made from speculation or something they read or heard. Until the product is out and people actually start using it, everything said is pure speculation. Nobody knows the full details yet.

There is one thing that is sure though ... Sony is keeping the PS4 as a pure gaming console, while Microsoft is expanding the reach with the XBox One. People can't accept Microsoft as an innovator because it's easier to play David than it is to be Goliath.
It's not really speculation when Microsoft came out and said it themselves.
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Old 06-14-2013, 9:00 AM
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It's not really speculation when Microsoft came out and said it themselves.
Details, dear ... details.
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  #106  
Old 06-14-2013, 9:10 AM
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Are you saying you prefer to be forced to have kinect?
I don't personally have a problem with Kinect. I thought it had potential for some really good gaming experiences, that was hampered by not being accurate enough. That issue looks (If you watch the demo vids of Kinect 2.0) like it is being addressed. So the potential I saw in kinect 1.0 looks like will actually be there for kinect 2.0.

To be fair, I feel like kinect 1.0 had some really great gaming experiences, though there weren't enough to make the purchase of kinect 1.0 worth it.

Kinect sports, Disneyland, Kinect Adventure all worked, for most of the mini games in them, pretty well. There were a couple of things here or there that didn't work right, but overall, they were fun games. The various dance and exercise games worked well, also. Further, there were a couple of smaller games that were really unique and fun experiences. Things like Gunstringer and Double Fine's Kinect party. It was a simple, silly game but it was very fun and strangely addicting. Also, fruit ninja kinect, worked absolutely well and is the best format of the game on any platform. It is the most fun version and kinect is the best way to play that game. So the thing has the ability to make fun games. A kinect 2.0 that actually works 100% of the time, can only lead to some interesting gaming experiences.

Also, I think another factor older/adult gamers ignore when it comes to kinect is that is provides a stable of games that parents can easily go to to find something appropriate for their kids. Both the Xbox and Xbox 360 before kinect, had very skimpy offerings for younger kids. Once kinect came out, there were some younger friendly and family oriented games that were available for families to play together. I think that is an important advantage the Xbox one will have over the PS4. yes the X1 will still have all the older, mature oriented games we all know and love, but it will also have a nice library of games available for younger people and families as well.

In any case, to answer your question, would I have preferred the $ to go to better hardware specs vs kinect 2.0? The gamer in me, says yes. However, MS already had the money invested in the tech. I could hardly expect them to give up on trying to attract people, besides the hard core gamer. Kinect 2.0 makes sense. Further, the way MS has integrated it into the console with regards to controls and things like Skype and such, it makes sense with regards to MS's interests in making a gaming machine plus an all in one box for your living room.

The X1 is going to be able to play great games, AND it's going to be a web hub, a communication device, a TV control device, etc.

If you don't like those features fine, but they certainly provide more value to people who are interested in them. I certainly am going to be using them. Skype alone, being able to switch to it and back from TV or gaming, is going to be used by me. I have family elsewhere in the country and being able to chat with them on the fly, and then swap back to what I was doing is going to be a big plus. Heck, just being able to chat with someone while watching a football game on TV,would be awesome.

The x1 has a lot of features due directly to Kinect 2.0. You may not be interested in them, but you can hardly say that MS doesn't have a cohesive plan for the console. You may disagree with it, and that's fine. The PS4 is sitting right there, at $100 less. I wouldn't knock anyone for a second picking that way.
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  #107  
Old 06-14-2013, 9:12 AM
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You know MS is in trouble when gamers have already nicknamed their new console the XBone.
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  #108  
Old 06-14-2013, 9:15 AM
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You know MS is in trouble when gamers have already nicknamed their new console the XBone.
No different than the past 2 gens, when it came to Sony Vs Ms, and the xbox and x360 managed to do just fine.

If anything hurts MS this gen, it's the $100 price point difference at launch. MS could be in really big trouble over that.

(There's a very simple counter to that though. All MS needs to say is, yes we have this DRM structure, but digital distribution leads to lower costs, so all our day 1 games are going to be $50 or less.)

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  #109  
Old 06-14-2013, 9:49 AM
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I kind of agree with you. $60 for a year isnt bad at all. LIVE has never let me down yet.

I dont agree with having to "check in" with MS every 24 hours though. And if you dont check in, you get banned and have to call MS and set your account up again, or something of the equivalent.

I also dont like the rules they will have on used games now. Freaking games are gonna be like $60-$70, thats alot of $$$. I dont feel I should have to pay to trade or buy used, on top of getting screwed from the dealer.
I have issues with this, as about 50% of the time when I have needed to activate a Windows OS, or went to update a game (I knew needed updating due to another console needing an update...) servers were being worked on, or unable to do what I needed, and I needed to try later. I don't play games on XBL, so I can't speak for playing on that though...

Wasn't it EA games that said they were not going to make single-player-games but multi-player-only games in the future?
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...Is there a possibility for your console to get hacked and to get spied on? Sure. But it's no more, than any other wifi Internet device with a camera and mic. Are you that worried abou your smart phone? Your laptop with built in camera? We all already have Internet enabled devices that have this danger.
WAY more, I think. On a phone you can factory it, or drop a new ROM on it that excludes an exploitable/patched derivitive-portion (if you don't have an iPhruity dev), on a camera device you can change the port FW on the Internet side... For the Kinect there IS always the index-card w/ tape option to cover the lens, though...

The sub-accounts under a Live subscription will just add another level of simplicity to Skynet-tracking and so they will know who the kids are too, without kids purchasing a danged thing! Direct-child-marketing... without broadcast TV.

Would this be the 1st console M$ put out that may be outsource-codded in India, like WinVista is rumored to have been screwed by, or was the OG 360 coded in India too? Hmmm.
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  #110  
Old 06-14-2013, 9:54 AM
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No different than the past 2 gens, when it came to Sony Vs Ms, and the xbox and x360 managed to do just fine.

If anything hurts MS this gen, it's the $100 price point difference at launch. MS could be in really big trouble over that.

(There's a very simple counter to that though. All MS needs to say is, yes we have this DRM structure, but digital distribution leads to lower costs, so all our day 1 games are going to be $50 or less.)
100 dollars is really not the only issue of this console. The fact you have to be online 24/7 and that you can't play used games for free is the biggest downfall for me. I don't like the idea of having to be online all the time. It's bull**** how you wont even be able to borrow a game from a buddy on the Xbox ONE. And what if your internet fails for a bit? Now you can't even enjoy some nice single player. And a lot of people just buy them for the single player and don't necessarily play online much. So that's a big **** you to them. Ridiculous. The ONE is just a big brick of fail.
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  #111  
Old 06-14-2013, 9:59 AM
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
I have issues with this, as about 50% of the time when I have needed to activate a Windows OS, or went to update a game (I knew needed updating due to another console needing an update...) servers were being worked on, or unable to do what I needed, and I needed to try later. I don't play games on XBL, so I can't speak for playing on that though...

WAY more, I think. On a phone you can factory it, or drop a new ROM on it that excludes an exploitable/patched derivitive-portion (if you don't have an iPhruity dev), on a camera device you can change the port FW on the Internet side... For the Kinect there IS always the index-card w/ tape option to cover the lens, though...

The sub-accounts under a Live subscription will just add another level of simplicity to Skynet-tracking and so they will know who the kids are too, without kids purchasing a danged thing!

Would this be the 1st console M$ put out that may be outsource-codded in India, like WinVista is rumored to have been screwed by, or was the OG 360 coded in India too? Hmmm.
Look, you don't like the xbox or x360 or MS? Fine. But your arguements against the console are tin-foil hat territory.

First off, to rip on LIVE, not having experienced it, is just plain silly. LIVE was, and is a rock solid gaming experience. Features work the same across all games, all devs support all of them, and LIVE really has had no significant issues over the past 8 or 9 years in terms of running. Yes, there have been outages a couple of times, for 24 hours and some people fell victim to account hacking do to social media mining (and 3rd party dev servers getting hacked), but overall, it's been a great experience.

Game updates were quick and automatic. I don't know if you've had experience with the PSn and the updates there, but Sony's online system looks like the keystone cops when it comes to updates and feature support compared to LIVE.

2nd, if you're talking about modding a phone to block stuff, you are in the .00000001 of the population walking around with a smart phone that would actually do that. Everyone else, the 99.99999% of people with a smart phone are whatever risk you are worried about with all their internet devices, besides just an internet enabled console. So you are not talking real world, as it exists. You are talking geek world, based on the amount of effort you are willing to put in to do what you are talking about.

3rd. If you're that worried about MS using your info, then I hope you don't own a smart phone, or a TV with cable service and a DVR box or Tivo, or a computer with a browser with cookies enabled or anything else anyone does regarding to media or internet usage. I hope you are not on facebook, twitter, instagram or whatever else.

To think MS is setting up any skynet blah blah blah, any more than any other internet company everyone already has contact with, is just ridiculous.

Just say you don't like MS. You don't like MS products. Your rational for not liking them makes you look silly.
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  #112  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:03 AM
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100 dollars is really not the only issue of this console. The fact you have to be online 24/7 and that you can't play used games for free is the biggest downfall for me. I don't like the idea of having to be online all the time. It's bull**** how you wont even be able to borrow a game from a buddy on the Xbox ONE. And what if your internet fails for a bit? Now you can't even enjoy some nice single player. And a lot of people just buy them for the single player and don't necessarily play online much. So that's a big **** you to them. Ridiculous. The ONE is just a big brick of fail.
If you do not have a good internet connection, then I agree, this console is not going to be for you. I think MS is being pretty up front about that. A 24/7 internet connection is required for the vision they have for this console. (BTW, once in 24 hours is simply for checking in on the DRM. So if you have a internet connection, even if it is slower, for at least some time, playing SP shouldn't be an issue, any more than it is on the xbox 360).

I personally don't have a problem with that, as long as MS is being up front about it. It won't affect me, as I've had my xbox and my x360 hooked up to the internet from the day that LIVE launched, but I can see how it would upset people who don't have good internet.

The PS4 is a great alternative for those people though, and if MS has made decisions to drive those types of people away, then Sony for sure, should pick up those sales.

That's what competition is all about.

I would point out that I don't think you have carefully looked at what MS is saying with regards to the DRM set up and being able to share games. You are wrong about not being able to borrow from your buddy. If you are talking about the physical copy of a game, you would be able to do that once, assuming you both are friends on LIVE. However, with regards to digital copies, your buddy could be one of the 10 people in your "group" (or whatever MS is going to call it) and you or he would be able to access any of your games at any time, via the cloud. (Again this is dependent on you having internet). I just want to point this out because while MS is trying to move away from discs to digital media, the DRM system they are setting up looks and sounds like it could be really cool if you have some friends you like to game with. There should be a nice library of games for you to try out once people start buying digital games.

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  #113  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:40 AM
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...2nd, if you're talking about modding a phone to block stuff, you are in the .00000001 of the population walking around with a smart phone that would actually do that. Everyone else, the 99.99999% of people with a smart phone are whatever risk you are worried about with all their internet devices, besides just an internet enabled console. So you are not talking real world, as it exists. You are talking geek world, based on the amount of effort you are willing to put in to do what you are talking about.

3rd. If you're that worried about MS using your info, then I hope you don't own a smart phone, or a TV with cable service and a DVR box or Tivo, or a computer with a browser with cookies enabled or anything else anyone does regarding to media or internet usage. I hope you are not on facebook, twitter, instagram or whatever else....
If a device is not rooted, then you can just factory it if it gets whacked (assuming it is not a Sidekick 4g ), as I stated.

I have a smartphone, and about 12 google accounts for single purposes, none of which have my name. They could possibly mine some data from e-mails for one, but that would be a LOT of work sorting out "Firstname Lastchicken" and such from the others... FB: not real name, not even close, although I DO have a FB account that never gets used signed in w/ a dedicated browser w/my real name, and the likes there are "Obama, Ponies, puppies, kittens, and such" for fun. I can't find myself in a 5 minute Google search. Thanks though. I DO have my info here and there, I just don't publish it every time it is asked. Not paranoid, just the monkey-wrench. Just saying...
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  #114  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:57 AM
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First off, to rip on LIVE, not having experienced it, is just plain silly. LIVE was, and is a rock solid gaming experience. Features work the same across all games, all devs support all of them, and LIVE really has had no significant issues over the past 8 or 9 years in terms of running. Yes, there have been outages a couple of times, for 24 hours and some people fell victim to account hacking do to social media mining (and 3rd party dev servers getting hacked), but overall, it's been a great experience.
But with the new DRM, if MS has an outage, regardless of the fact that my internet connection works just fine... I can't even play single player games that I bought.

Sounds wonderful.

Sure, if a publisher of a PC game has an issue I wouldn't be able to play that either depending on the DRM scheme used. But there's a difference between being unable to play a game(or a few), and having a useless brick of a system.

Would such an event be rare? Yes. Is such a problem avoidable? Yes.
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  #115  
Old 06-14-2013, 11:07 AM
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No one freaks out when they have to sign into steam to play their PC games. All MS is doing is automating that process and having the console sign in once Ar night so the console is always authorized and ready to go.

Also, MS has said you can completlu shut the console down, if you want in functionality, except for a trickle to leave kinect on and able to respond only to " Xbox on"

Is there a possibility for your console to get hacked and to get spied on? Sure. But it's no more, than any other wifi Internet device with a camera and mic. Are you that worried abou your smart phone? Your laptop with built in camera? We all already have Internet enabled devices that have this danger.
I dont have a smart phone or a laptop with a camera. My desktop doesnt even have a camera...lol

The fact is, MS didnt have to do all that. PS4 isnt doing it, so why is microsoft? Plus, I would have to be logged in to play ANY game. What if I want to play on my boat? I dont have a connection on my boat, so Im screwed. What if I want to bring my xbox one to my cabin with no connection? Screwed again. What if MS has some kind of power outage or malfunction, Screwed again. No offline gameplay, even for NON multiplayer games.

Im not complaining but I will not buy Xbox one, thats for sure. My xbox 360 is more than enough and when I get a new system, it will probably be a PS3 or PS4
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  #116  
Old 06-14-2013, 11:07 AM
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i have no hard evidence, but going off of a client who works with blizzard, the rumor is this

the used game market was dominated by gamestop. What happened was developement groups got paid once for the product, gamestop sold that disc maybe 1-3 more times, raking in up to 10-25 bucks each time.

the new system as rumored would allow for the development groups to get some of the kick back. I think XBOX realizes if they screw the pooch they will funnel the masses into PS4, heck I like PS4 simply on the blue ray (as i did with PS3). What is rumored is offering a 15 dollar (or percentage based on time in market and price of OE game to the new "used" customer). So if game stop buys back your game for 30, sells it for 35, and you pay a ____fee sya 15 bucks your possibly ahead still for buying used. you just had to license it.

*DISCLAIMER*..... I HATE THIS MODEL, with a passion, but if they play smart they can get what the want without totally screwing the customer. I still think MS has started the NAZI game war and it will eventually bleed into everything, no way is blizzard or activision going to take a handout from MS and not do the same thing for other consoles.

who is should hurt the most is game stop, because they are going to HAVE to take a pay cut in the used market, it just depends on how greedy the licensing makes it.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:12 AM
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I have issues with this, as about 50% of the time when I have needed to activate a Windows OS, or went to update a game (I knew needed updating due to another console needing an update...) servers were being worked on, or unable to do what I needed, and I needed to try later. I don't play games on XBL, so I can't speak for playing on that though...
Honestly Ive never had a problem with XBL, so I cant knock it. I quite like it actually and have no problem paying $5 per month to use it.

Sure I would like it to be free but that aint gonna happen. Now even PS4 will charge, so were screwed either way I guess...

My smart TV can do pretty much everything my xbox can do, minuse a few things, so I guess XBL is just another way to make money for MS. I really dont care as much to complain about it though...Now Xbox One, I dont like...
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:14 AM
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i have no hard evidence, but going off of a client who works with blizzard, the rumor is this

the used game market was dominated by gamestop. What happened was developement groups got paid once for the product, gamestop sold that disc maybe 1-3 more times, raking in up to 10-25 bucks each time.

the new system as rumored would allow for the development groups to get some of the kick back. I think XBOX realizes if they screw the pooch they will funnel the masses into PS4, heck I like PS4 simply on the blue ray (as i did with PS3). What is rumored is offering a 15 dollar (or percentage based on time in market and price of OE game to the new "used" customer). So if game stop buys back your game for 30, sells it for 35, and you pay a ____fee sya 15 bucks your possibly ahead still for buying used. you just had to license it.

*DISCLAIMER*..... I HATE THIS MODEL, with a passion, but if they play smart they can get what the want without totally screwing the customer. I still think MS has started the NAZI game war and it will eventually bleed into everything, no way is blizzard or activision going to take a handout from MS and not do the same thing for other consoles.

who is should hurt the most is game stop, because they are going to HAVE to take a pay cut in the used market, it just depends on how greedy the licensing makes it.
I kind of agree but developers make ****LOAD of cash for their games...

I dont mind paying a few dollars in royalties when I buy a used game but I am not going to pay out of the butt for a used game.

Like I said, developers make hundreds of millions of dollars when they release a new game, depending on its popularity...
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  #119  
Old 06-14-2013, 3:43 PM
Iknownot Iknownot is offline
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But with the new DRM, if MS has an outage, regardless of the fact that my internet connection works just fine... I can't even play single player games.
Well, unless MS's network goes down world wide at the exact time your console has to reathorize, I don't see how that's ever going to be an issue. That's leaving aside the fact that LIVE had been pretty stable and reliable over its existence so far. I think I can only remember one or two outages and I don't think they got close to 24 hours. It's been a long time, so I can't even remember the details.
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  #120  
Old 06-14-2013, 5:10 PM
Merc1138 Merc1138 is online now
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Well, unless MS's network goes down world wide at the exact time your console has to reathorize, I don't see how that's ever going to be an issue. That's leaving aside the fact that LIVE had been pretty stable and reliable over its existence so far. I think I can only remember one or two outages and I don't think they got close to 24 hours. It's been a long time, so I can't even remember the details.
The outage doesn't have to be 24 hours to cause a problem, it only has to be at the time your system decides to call home and still can't a few hours later(obviously MS isn't going to make it call home just once every 24 hours).

That's also assuming MS has an actual outage, rather than just getting DDoS'd.

My point still stands. If the phone home mechanism fails for any reason, your $500 console is a $500 brick until it comes back online.
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