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  #1  
Old 06-13-2013, 8:18 AM
Thedomsaww Thedomsaww is offline
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Default Microstamping? something that i dont get.

So latley there has been a few articles in the news about microstamping. How it will hold gun owners accountable for the bullets they shoot. The articles state that a small ID can be printed onto the firing pin so when it strikes it leaves an imprint and can be traced back to the owner.

Now where i have issue with these articles is that they state the imprint or id will be on the "bullet". Which is impossible, the firing pin impacts the primer in the cartridge. It never comes in contact with the actual projectile.

So in order to get the ID from the stamp LE would have to have the casing. If there are no casings found then the microstamp is useless, no matter how many bullets (projectiles) are pulled from the scene.

I understand it is more likley another attempt to ban guns do to the cost of making the firing pin just in CA etc. But to the masses that have no understanding of guns or ammo this could sound like a good idea, to have bullets with id's on them. When in reality the bullets will just be bullets. You could bypass the microstamp if you just have a case catcher on your gun and dont lose the casings. If there are no casings on scene there is no way to tie your gun to the shooting besides any "old fashioned" ways they already have.

My 2 cents.
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2013, 8:24 AM
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People are talking/writing/legislating without knowing how things work. Nothing new.
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Old 06-13-2013, 8:36 AM
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Yes and 3 seconds with a piece of emery cloth removes any stamping on a firing pin. This is never gonna work....
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Old 06-13-2013, 8:48 AM
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Agree, its not gonna help solve crimes and will just add needless costs. Also doesn't really work on revolvers becasue the casings stay in the gun.
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2013, 8:49 AM
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Originally Posted by vliberatore View Post
People are talking/writing/legislating without knowing how things work. Nothing new.
Like I say, a bunch of high school students could do a better job.
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  #6  
Old 06-13-2013, 8:53 AM
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For the bullet to get a mark, I read in an article about a laser engraving of some sort. They will engrave a marking into the end of the barrel so the bullet gets a distinct mark as it exits the barrel.

It's all just talk. Because the Defence has good claims why it won't work because anyone can file it off with a diamond file, parts will wear and so will the mark, or can be replaced very easily. Also police are except for some reason.
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Last edited by xxINKxx; 06-13-2013 at 8:58 AM..
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  #7  
Old 06-13-2013, 9:06 AM
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What worries me more is if you dont pick up all your cases. What can your info do in the wrong hands.
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  #8  
Old 06-13-2013, 9:11 AM
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Let us try this with a liberal legisture reasoning. Someone goes down and buys a box of 9mm at Wallyworld. They are sold box number 12345. Each bullet in the box is engraved with the 12345 number. They show their ID, are fingerprinted and logged into a bullet registry database. A murder takes place 2 weeks later. The victim was shot dead by a 9mm bullet engraved with the 12345. Detectives hit the database and go pick up the purchaser for murder in record time. There are just too many problems with this to list.
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:14 AM
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yes i agree with all of you.
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2013, 9:35 AM
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Does putting a license plate on your car stop it from getting stolen?

It's a form of idol worship. "All hail technology! We will be saved by that which we have wrought with our hands!"

May as well put a little golden calf on your lawn and expect it to magically stop evil.
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Old 06-13-2013, 9:54 AM
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The entire point of the law is to ban handguns by technological proxy.

Criminals predominantly carry stolen weapons,typically of the .25 and .32 caliber variety according to LE statistics .You may as well prevent domestic violence by making marriage illegal.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ69 View Post
Like I say, a bunch of high school students could do a better job.
Like I say, a bunch of elementary school students could do a better job

Fixed it for you
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  #13  
Old 06-13-2013, 10:44 AM
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If this happens, revolvers will be all the rage again!
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
The entire point of the law is to ban handguns by technological proxy.
This.

Please do not try to understand laws that mention guns as really having anything to do with guns - they're always a vehicle to appear to be 'doing something about a problem' so the legislator might be re-elected.

Doesn't matter if they're wrong or if it does not/cannot work the way they say.
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Old 06-13-2013, 1:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxINKxx View Post
so the bullet gets a distinct mark as it exits the barrel.
Isn't that what happens anyways when you fire a gun?
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Old 06-13-2013, 1:51 PM
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the bullet is engraved by the rifleing but there is no way match it to a gun without having the gun to provide a sample bullet to compare

i suppose they could come up with some kind digital rifling button

with 6 grooves say you could vary each one with a large medium or small cutter that would be like 700 different combos add an extra large and and extra small you coudl really narrow down the search of suspects and its pattern could just be encoded in the serial number
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Old 06-13-2013, 1:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
Yes and 3 seconds with a piece of emery cloth removes any stamping on a firing pin. This is never gonna work....
Make it illegal to remove the micro stamping.
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Old 06-13-2013, 2:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
the bullet is engraved by the rifleing but there is no way match it to a gun without having the gun to provide a sample bullet to compare

i suppose they could come up with some kind digital rifling button

with 6 grooves say you could vary each one with a large medium or small cutter that would be like 700 different combos add an extra large and and extra small you coudl really narrow down the search of suspects and its pattern could just be encoded in the serial number
AKA "Ballistic Fingerprinting"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_fingerprinting

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieP View Post
Make it illegal to remove the micro stamping.
And how do you enforce that exactly? Do you send cops out to every range and gun shop and have them dissassemble and inspect the firing pins of every gun under a microscope? Do you just charge people with it after the fact? IE, will a busted taillight on the way back from a gun range result in you ending up in jail because the micro-stamping on your well-used handgun's worn down without your knowledge?

These people have no idea how to prevent violent crime. All they can offer is a bunch of "solutions" for minimizing damage or being able to prosecute people after the fact, all while lying about how they're "keeping us safe".

Last edited by CBruce; 06-13-2013 at 2:10 PM..
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  #19  
Old 06-13-2013, 2:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RonnieP View Post
Make it illegal to remove the micro stamping.
How many criminals do you think are going to follow the law?
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Old 06-13-2013, 2:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieP View Post
Make it illegal to remove the micro stamping.
If its on the firing pin I would guess a mag or two of my hot 10mm and 9x25 Dillon loads would remove it for me.... Normal wear and tear.
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Old 06-13-2013, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rg_1111@yahoo.com View Post
How many criminals do you think are going to follow the law?
Who said anything about controlling criminals? People will piss and moan about it, but they will comply.

And if you get arrested because you filed off the firing pin, then the people on here will jump on you for not complying with the law.

"Play stupid Games" right?
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Old 06-13-2013, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8voice8 View Post
If its on the firing pin I would guess a mag or two of my hot 10mm and 9x25 Dillon loads would remove it for me.... Normal wear and tear.
This, or load with harder primers and hotter loads
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  #23  
Old 06-13-2013, 2:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBruce View Post
These people have no idea how to prevent violent crime. All they can offer is a bunch of "solutions" for minimizing damage or being able to prosecute people after the fact, all while lying about how they're "keeping us safe".
The problem which nobody (the public) seems to consider is that laws do not exist to stop crime. They exist to punish crime. That's why they're called "penal codes"

The idea of punishment is what deters people from committing crimes, not the laws themselves. It's a crime to jaywalk, but since nobody enforces the law, nobody cares about the penalty. We law abiding citizens will not commit crimes because we care about the penalty. Criminals do not, and never have, else they wouldn't commit the crimes.
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Old 06-13-2013, 4:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
the bullet is engraved by the rifleing but there is no way match it to a gun without having the gun to provide a sample bullet to compare

i suppose they could come up with some kind digital rifling button

with 6 grooves say you could vary each one with a large medium or small cutter that would be like 700 different combos add an extra large and and extra small you coudl really narrow down the search of suspects and its pattern could just be encoded in the serial number
That wouldn't even work on my XD 40 with the way it is setup. I'll skip the details just in case undesirables are reading this. Where there is a will, there is a way. Criminals will find a way to get around what stands in their way, some don't even care so much about getting caught.

The anti's say we need new measures to catch who committed the crime. Once the crime is committed, it is too late. Sure, they should be punished, but what we really want is for the crime not to happen in the first place.

Every effort in the world to stop crime, will not eliminate it. People will do bad things. The anti's remind me of my 6th grade PE teachers. When a couple boys got in trouble, the entire class had to do drills even though they followed the rules.
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Old 06-13-2013, 6:12 PM
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Lets look at it this way.

Here's how the micro stamping law will be enforced.If the police ever encounter a law abiding persons guns in the course of a traffic stop or some other form of contact, they'll have to "seize " the gun for ballistic analysis.This law lays the groundwork for a justification for gun seizure after purchase; as the only way to verify a micro stamp works is to actually fire the piece. Officer Gungrabber can't do that on the side of the road.

A gun owner them gets to wait 60 days before he's either given his gun back or a warrant for arrest instead.Then the citizen gets to spend 20k on legal fees in criminal court.
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Old 06-13-2013, 7:02 PM
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Note, if it only required that the firing pin bear said stamp, that could be done without too much cost/retooling to manufacturers.

The law actually requires that the case be stamped in TWO different places, at most one of which is the firing pin.
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Old 06-13-2013, 7:30 PM
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So if you needed a new firing pin, you would have to get the gun recertified by the state???? Oh great, how about we create an entire new bureacracy around registering guns. Look at the size and scope of the DMV, and that's just to keep our cars registered.
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Old 06-13-2013, 7:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainter1212 View Post
So if you needed a new firing pin, you would have to get the gun recertified by the state???? Oh great, how about we create an entire new bureacracy around registering guns. Look at the size and scope of the DMV, and that's just to keep our cars registered.
No, this does not follow. FWIW, you can remove a grip safety from a 1911 and the thumb safety (roster requires manual and positive safety), the mag disconnect safety after a Ruger (roster requires that too), etc. Just cannot sell it as an FFL
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Old 06-13-2013, 8:15 PM
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Firing pins and barrels are easily replaced. Good luck having a micro stamped bullet be recovered from a crime scene and be able to track it back to a particular gun.

Somebody watched "Judge Dread" (the original) and decided this piece of science fiction would work in the real world.

Nothing more than an attempt to raise the cost and lower availability of guns
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Old 06-13-2013, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick Justice View Post
It's a form of idol worship. "All hail technology! We will be saved by that which we have wrought with our hands!"
That's right, and obviously the problem is that there is no technology that one person can create that another cannot defeat--humans are clever that way. Sometimes it's not so easy, but in this case it's extremely easy to defeat and/or subvert, and therefore pointless except for infringing on our rights and forcing us to expend significant resources to defend ourselves and the American way of life. They're counting on us to wear down and admit defeat, as they never will--such is the fundamental nature of all government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBruce View Post
These people have no idea how to prevent violent crime. All they can offer is a bunch of "solutions" for minimizing damage or being able to prosecute people after the fact, all while lying about how they're "keeping us safe".
They don't even want to reduce violent crime, except when it would directly help get them reelected. This is because violent crime is a useful tool for increasing government power and control. Lawmakers see their job as making as many new laws as possible, which of course makes as many of us potential criminals as possible. They ran out of real crimes a long time ago, so they've turned to making criminals out of those who have done nothing wrong morally or ethically, and have not hurt nor intend to hurt others--you know, decent people who are exercising their natural or God-given, if you prefer, rights that are protected explicitly by the Constitution.

Last edited by Manco; 06-13-2013 at 8:32 PM..
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  #31  
Old 06-14-2013, 6:40 AM
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I wouldn't say they've run out of real crime.....

In this country, as a bank CEO, you can defraud millions and drive this country to it's knees, and you get a bonus and a get out of jail free card. But god forbid you slip an 11 round mag into your pistol, and are not wealthy enough to afford an attorney, or the law will come down on you with both knees.

The key to control is to make the masses feel powerless and take away their individual liberties.
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Old 06-14-2013, 8:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxINKxx View Post
For the bullet to get a mark, I read in an article about a laser engraving of some sort. They will engrave a marking into the end of the barrel so the bullet gets a distinct mark as it exits the barrel.

It's all just talk. Because the Defence has good claims why it won't work because anyone can file it off with a diamond file, parts will wear and so will the mark, or can be replaced very easily. Also police are except for some reason.
I think you are thinking about the failed attempt to have ammunition manufactured with "serial numbers" etched into the bottom of the bullet and also into the side of the shell casing. The seller would have to record who bought each box of ammuntion by its serial number. Bullet pulled from corpse would have serial number at the flat end of the bullet, and could be traced back to the individual who bought the box of bullets. Database would be impossible to maintain.
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Old 06-14-2013, 2:59 PM
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More money for California to waste, Like if California has a surplus of money laying around. California Government, senates, officials etc, are running business out of California.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirty Monkey View Post
More money for California to waste, Like if California has a surplus of money laying around. California Government, senates, officials etc, are running business out of California.
Well, yeah, that's the game plan. More Welfare, Foodstamps, Section 8 = More Democrat voters.

Look at how well it's working for cities like Chicago/Detroit, Democrats gained and kept control with poverty.
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Old 06-15-2013, 1:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Justice View Post
May as well put a little golden calf on your lawn and expect it to magically stop evil.
Who told you about the magical golden calf on my lawn...??
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Old 06-29-2013, 8:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieP View Post
Make it illegal to remove the micro stamping.
#1. It is ALREADY ILLEGAL to remove identification marks from a firearm.

#2. Even bigger concern:

Eventually, the stamp on the firing pin will wear, without the owner trying to remove it.
If the innocent owner is caught with the gun with a worn microstamp, the anti-gun
fascists will try to prosecute the owner for whatever crime that can imagine related to a
gun with defaced identification marks.
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  #37  
Old 06-29-2013, 8:22 PM
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It's a stupid attempt at being clever. As others have said, if you can file the stamp off easily then what's the point?
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Old 06-29-2013, 8:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
The entire point of the law is to ban handguns by technological proxy.
EXACTLY! Don't try and make sense out of nonsense laws.
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Old 06-29-2013, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vliberatore View Post
People are talking/writing/legislating without knowing how things work. Nothing new.
LOL well said Sir
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