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  #41  
Old 06-04-2013, 5:50 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is online now
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Originally Posted by postal View Post
....So... Now we're talking $115 + shipping.. $130....
Your math is good but you didn't mention that once you have the tools you can use them on more than one gun or at the range on multiple guns or loan them to friends and thety rareky wear out.

Randall found my headspace was out of tolerance from the factory.... by people that assemble them day in day out for a living...

And yet you shot the gun for four years with it all messed up and no complaints if I am reading this correctly?

And I should trust a sized case and a click to be dead nuts?
If its been working for years now and was out of spec that entire time as you posted earlier YES!

I'm afraid I'd have to pass. It make work fine for you. But I'll pass.

Your choice.

I am curious what a third party would measure on your rifle though.
I am curious as well.

I work over my own triggers, do my own action and scope base bedding, heck, you should see what I did to that factory tupperware stock.... woodblocks, bondo and 4+ layers of fiberglass... Worked over my 1911 myself too.
You work over your own triggers but with the proper tools you wouldn't put a barrel on a Savage

In this case, I had Randall install the muzzle brake. When I rebarrel, He will move the brake over to my new barrel, as well as headspace it.

No comment

Costs less than the tools including go/no go and shipping. I wont need to mess with it for nearly a decade. I'd misplace those tools in ten years.
True if everyone switched barrels every ten years but what about guys who shoot a lot?
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  #42  
Old 06-04-2013, 9:32 PM
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True if everyone switched barrels every ten years but what about guys who shoot a lot?
The ammo to wear out a barrel costs more than the Gunsmithing to replace the barrel.
Arguing that Gunsmithing is expensive is much like arguing that gasoline is expensive when racing cars.
It's all just part of the cost of the hobby...
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  #43  
Old 06-05-2013, 12:22 PM
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....So... Now we're talking $115 + shipping.. $130....

Your math is good but you didn't mention that once you have the tools you can use them on more than one gun or at the range on multiple guns or loan them to friends and thety rareky wear out.


I use all kinds of tools for work and for hobbies. I have tens and tens of thousands in tools. I learned a very long time ago to never loan them to ANYONE. They have a tendency of not being returned. And... why would I need the tools for multiple guns? I only have one savage, and eventually, when I buy another bolt action, it's highly unlikely to be another savage. Why would I use the tools at the range? Because it's fun to rezero a scope every range trip?

Randall found my headspace was out of tolerance from the factory.... by people that assemble them day in day out for a living...

And yet you shot the gun for four years with it all messed up and no complaints if I am reading this correctly?

And I should trust a sized case and a click to be dead nuts?
If its been working for years now and was out of spec that entire time as you posted earlier YES!

NO! It's out of spec, and it overworks the brass, and it lowers pressure meaning my rounds are slow. And if you want to say "it's fine"... It the clear and obvious point that you should not be working on guns.

I'm afraid I'd have to pass. It make work fine for you. But I'll pass.
Your choice.

I am curious what a third party would measure on your rifle though.
I am curious as well.

I work over my own triggers, do my own action and scope base bedding, heck, you should see what I did to that factory tupperware stock.... woodblocks, bondo and 4+ layers of fiberglass... Worked over my 1911 myself too.
You work over your own triggers but with the proper tools you wouldn't put a barrel on a Savage

In this case, I had Randall install the muzzle brake. When I rebarrel, He will move the brake over to my new barrel, as well as headspace it.
No comment

Costs less than the tools including go/no go and shipping. I wont need to mess with it for nearly a decade. I'd misplace those tools in ten years.


Lastly, "guys that shoot alot....." Well, depends on the cartridge for one..... I shoot a 308 which should have an accurate barrel life of 6,000 + rounds. I takes a while to wear one out.
If someone shoots a 243 with a whopping 2,000 round barrel life, going through a barrel or even 2 per year, Consider the cost of the ammo, the cost of the barrels, in the first place..... those people have money to burn anyway. It wouldnt matter much if they bought the tools, (IF THEY KNEW HOW TO PROPERLY USE THEM WITH GAUGES) or pay a smith to do the barrel swap anyway- Such people usually arent shooting a savage in the first place, and require a smiths services. I'm pretty much the only competitor that shoots a savage at our competitions
.

Last edited by postal; 06-05-2013 at 12:32 PM..
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  #44  
Old 06-05-2013, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by postal View Post
If someone shoots a 243 with a whopping 2,000 round barrel life, going through a barrel or even 2 per year, Consider the cost of the ammo, the cost of the barrels, in the first place..... those people have money to burn anyway.
Besides prairie dog shooters amd f class shooters, people that wear out 1-2 barrels a year rarely shoot savage rifles.
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AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
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  #45  
Old 06-05-2013, 8:43 PM
LynnJr LynnJr is online now
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[COLOR="Red"]I use all kinds of tools for work and for hobbies. I have tens and tens of thousands in tools. I learned a very long time ago to never loan them to ANYONE. They have a tendency of not being returned. And... why would I need the tools for multiple guns? I only have one savage, and eventually, when I buy another bolt action, it's highly unlikely to be another savage. Why would I use the tools at the range? Because it's fun to rezero a scope every range trip?

From the tone of your post you don't shoot much and the tools would do little for you.On the other hand many enthusiast have multiple guns and friends with multiple guns and swapping Savage barrels is as difficult as swapping AR15 magazines.One has to figure were they fit in the above picture and make there decision based on that.



NO! It's out of spec, and it overworks the brass, and it lowers pressure meaning my rounds are slow. And if you want to say "it's fine"... It the clear and obvious point that you should not be working on guns.


So for four years it over worked your brass and You did nothing about it and I should not work on guns? Wow most of the guns I currently shoot have the entire shoulder moved forward from 0.045 - 0.120 inch to get me some extra velocity.If your not a reloader and you obviously are not and must use factory ammo the only shortcoming is lower velocity.You don't overwork factory brass with a single firing and small headspace issues.
If you are a reloader you don't lose any velocity at all you would actually gain velocity from the larger pressure vessel you have now created.

Costs less than the tools including go/no go and shipping. I wont need to mess with it for nearly a decade. I'd misplace those tools in ten years.


Again in your situation this is best for you.A guy who likes guns and makes weekly trips to the range would find it beneficial to do his own swaps.

Lastly, "guys that shoot alot....." Well, depends on the cartridge for one..... I shoot a 308 which should have an accurate barrel life of 6,000 + rounds. I takes a while to wear one out.
If someone shoots a 243 with a whopping 2,000 round barrel life, going through a barrel or even 2 per year, Consider the cost of the ammo, the cost of the barrels, in the first place..... those people have money to burn anyway. It wouldnt matter much if they bought the tools, (IF THEY KNEW HOW TO PROPERLY USE THEM WITH GAUGES) or pay a smith to do the barrel swap anyway- Such people usually arent shooting a savage in the first place, and require a smiths services. I'm pretty much the only competitor that shoots a savage at our competitions
.
The advantage to owning the tools is for guys who like to tinker with there guns.As this is the precision rifle club forum I would expect those posting would shoot more than the average gun owner.I happen to have a few Savage rifles and when I go to the range swapping out barrels from 243 to 260 or 308 and getting back on target is so minor as to not be noticed.I would imagine that on this forum that applies to most here.
I usually replace 4 barrels each year and none of them have ever had 2000 rounds on them let alone 6,000 rounds.Your in it to win it is my motto.I don't know you but if your stoning triggers and your concerned about brass being overworked putting a barrel on a Savage is not a big deal.
Lynn
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  #46  
Old 06-06-2013, 3:33 PM
postal postal is offline
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HAHAHAAAA!

Yes I reload. 175SMK 44g varget in BH (win) brass.

Yes it concerns me it's overworking my brass because the the headspace was too long, allowing the brass to stretch too far, and with a LARGER expanded case, pressure drops. I do full length resize after every firing. That stretch and crush of the case has likely worn the brass significantly more than it should have.

If I was after a higher pressure, more powder capacity, more vel, I'd shoot a 260 or 243. I prefer the long barrel life of the 308. So even when I do wear out this barrel, I'll probably stick with 308.

How was I to know it was OUT OF SPEC from the factory? I dont own go/no go gauges. That was the first time it was checked. Wouldnt anyone *ASSUME* their rifle was within tolerance from the factory? And be upset to found it it wasnt? Not that it's 'fine' out of spec like you claim. It isnt fine- thats why there are specs to begin with, and if it is NOT in spec, it is NOT fine.

Replacing a 308 barrel at sub 2000 rounds is truely a waste of money. Clearly you have excess money to spend on rifles if you do this..... *AND* since this is the "precision rifle forum", almost no one else here shoots a savage. So.... with all this excess money you apparently have with all these extra barrels, why do you shoot a savage instead of a custom action, or AI, or TRG, custom 700?

I shoot a savage because I'm on a budget.

When I have funds, I will go to a 700 based custom action. Probably a Tac 30. so this is my first and probably last savage.

Now explain to me again why a guy with *some tools* but not all necessary tools, (go/nogo gauges) who unsafely swaps barrels should try and convince a guy to do the same?

Oh, thats right.... you like to 'tinker'... like a shadetree mechanic... or as often called "Do it *to* yourselfers".

But lastly, I can honestly say, that I do not respect your opinion (because of your unsafe practices that you actually tell others they should do the same), and could care less what you think.

Regards,
I'm out.
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  #47  
Old 06-08-2013, 5:45 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postal View Post
HAHAHAAAA!

I actually expected this
.

Yes it concerns me it's overworking my brass because the the headspace was too long, allowing the brass to stretch too far, and with a LARGER expanded case, pressure drops. I do full length resize after every firing. That stretch and crush of the case has likely worn the brass significantly more than it should have.

If you were reloading properly for this chambering you would have known the chamber was long or short on your first reloading session.If you were posting this in the AR15 AK47 section of this forum it would not surprise me but you are posting in the Precision forum.

If I was after a higher pressure, more powder capacity, more vel, I'd shoot a 260 or 243. I prefer the long barrel life of the 308. So even when I do wear out this barrel, I'll probably stick with 308.
No comment

How was I to know it was OUT OF SPEC from the factory? I dont own go/no go gauges. That was the first time it was checked. Wouldnt anyone *ASSUME* their rifle was within tolerance from the factory? And be upset to found it it wasnt? Not that it's 'fine' out of spec like you claim. It isnt fine- thats why there are specs to begin with, and if it is NOT in spec, it is NOT fine.

When you measure your brass after firing it you would/should have known there was a discrepancy.On a Precision rifle nobody assumes anything they verify everything.Small amounts of headspace variation are quite common in custom builds and most Precision shooters take care of this non-consequential variation with there dies.

Replacing a 308 barrel at sub 2000 rounds is truely a waste of money. Clearly you have excess money to spend on rifles if you do this..... *AND* since this is the "precision rifle forum", almost no one else here shoots a savage. So.... with all this excess money you apparently have with all these extra barrels, why do you shoot a savage instead of a custom action, or AI, or TRG, custom 700?

Precision shooting means a barrel gets replaced whenever its peak accuracy falls off.I don't have excess money and the barrels get fitted to other rifles for other shooting purposes.Savage rifles are shot in competition daily and do just fine.As your shooting changes from a hobby to an obsession most shooters see a need for features not present on factory actions and upgrade there equipment.I have most of the major name brand custom actions made or multiples of them and have posted pictures of some of them on calguns in the past.I shoot all actions and see little difference between them.

I shoot a savage because I'm on a budget.

Nothing wrong with a Savage.

When I have funds, I will go to a 700 based custom action. Probably a Tac 30. so this is my first and probably last savage.

I would do this only if you have a specific reason for the change and not just to look cool t the range.I see a lot of shooters upgrading when they really don't need to.The money would be better spent in my humble opinion on bullet and powder and more importantly more range time.

Now explain to me again why a guy with *some tools* but not all necessary tools, (go/nogo gauges) who unsafely swaps barrels should try and convince a guy to do the same?

I would never recommend anything unsafe and for you to say that has me scratching my head.As this is the Precision forum you can set the headspace with a properly loaded round and a caliper.As you continue to shoot and hopefully gain more experience you will soon realize this isn't a very tough job to do.

Oh, thats right.... you like to 'tinker'... like a shadetree mechanic... or as often called "Do it *to* yourselfers".

Actually this is somewhat correct even though you probably meant it to be negative or derogatory in nature.I do these very simple tasks myself because my gunsmith doesn't follow me to the range on sunday morning and I swap out barrels testing and working up new loads.I don't have my gunsmith who lives in Pennsylvania fly out here for such a modest task.

But lastly, I can honestly say, that I do not respect your opinion (because of your unsafe practices that you actually tell others they should do the same), and could care less what you think.

I honestly don't care what you think of me or my posts but my opinion is valid.I don't recommend anything unsafe to anyone and until you learn a little bit more about shooting,reloading and can listen to scrutiny withot taking it the wrong way you should have someone else do this work for you.Hopefully down the road you will advance your shooting or just look around you and discover this is done all the time and is quite safe when done right.You are not there now.

Regards,
I'm out.
I'll post you a picture or two to look at.

Last edited by LynnJr; 10-08-2013 at 8:17 PM..
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