Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > CALIFORNIA SHOOTING CLUBS AND ORGANIZATIONS > The Appleseed Project
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

The Appleseed Project The Revolutionary War Veterans Association

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-29-2013, 3:06 PM
Iron Squid Iron Squid is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 189
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Question Question about Bay Area Appleseed

Just wondering if anyone has done an Appleseed in the Bay Area? If so, how much of it was history lesson, and how much of it was shooting?

A friend of mine did Appleseed in Oregon and really hated it because there was very little marksmanship taught, maybe a half-day at most.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-30-2013, 9:33 AM
KnowFear's Avatar
KnowFear KnowFear is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 52
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

If you are like me, and are not used to getting into and staying in the shooting positions, you may have to sit out a round or 2 of shooting on Sunday!

Lots of shooting time - and all sorts of new muscles and joints that I didn't even know I had will get a good work out.

As you may imagine, a fair amount of time is spent on safety and procedures, a fair amount of time on steady hold factors and the like.

History is nicely incorporated during lunch story-time, and at other appropriate times to tie everything together. Not having personally thought about it before, it was interesting to hear about how the firearm was transformed from a relatively ineffective second-thought into a country winning tool by the Marksman.

History was my least favorite class in school, but the Bay Area folks made it interesting and relevant.

Don't worry, there is plenty of shooting time, and you will go through several hundred rounds.
__________________
Who is John Galt?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-30-2013, 2:36 PM
Eljay Eljay is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,345
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Just to second that, when I did it the history was mostly a lunchtime thing.

There are definitely local variations, since it's a volunteer organization, but the bay area contingent seems to have its act together.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-30-2013, 5:42 PM
Iron Squid Iron Squid is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 189
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Thanks for the feedback, guys.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-30-2013, 9:14 PM
as_rocketman's Avatar
as_rocketman as_rocketman is offline
CGSSA Leader
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 778
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Just to clarify for anyone else, the schedule at Appleseed follows a standard curriculum -- there is no material difference between the course taught in the Bay Area or So Cal, or for that matter Eureka or Bakersfield or Las Vegas or Manhattan. The Bay Area instructors are also some of our finest.

At Appleseed, lunchtime is story time. We take a break for an hour or so mid-day, partly to refuel and rehydrate and partly for safety reasons. During that break we focus on the origin of our rights and the birth of the United States of America. It's worth your attention. It can also help you become a better shooter. Shooting is a martial art. You can't just study the forms and practice, it takes as much mental focus as physical -- if not more.

Additionally, we often start the day by setting the stage of where the American shooting tradition comes from and the origin of the Rifleman, and we like to close with some words of wisdom from our Founding Fathers. But make no mistake, we get in plenty of shooting. Under the current ammo panic we've gotten many requests to slow down the pace of shooting. Also remember, it's set up to be a friendly class, so you are welcome to take additional breaks if you need them. We're not going to take roll and there's no final exam.

So far I haven't gotten any requests for "less history lesson" and I've been at this for four years. Often students want to hear more. But everyone is different. Constitutional Rights are after all for everyone, and we would like to reach everyone.
__________________
Riflemen Needed.

Ask me about Appleseed! Send a PM or see me in the Appleseed subforum.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-01-2013, 8:37 AM
Eljay Eljay is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,345
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

You know, I've been reading the after action reports for some years now on the appleseed forum, and for all there's a standard curriculum there's also clearly regional variations, at least in emphasis and how much time is spent on different aspects. There's also clearly some flexibility because Nero went through and made some changes to dramatically lower the round count (more dry fire, more dummy round drills, less mad minutes or whatever).

Also keep in mind that the schedule is PACKED. "drinking from a firehose" and all that. If a local group isn't organized and doesn't keep the pace and something has to give, what do they do? Do you bump the third strike to Sunday? Or do you rush the shooting? This won't be an issue here - they've got it down - but I have to believe some people manage that time crunch better than others and I remember it being a topic of discussion at some point when groups were being strongly encouraged not to bump the third strike and they were trying to figure out how to get everything into Saturday that's supposed to be in Saturday, especially at ranges that have limited hours.

Anyway, just to reiterate the important stuff - if you show up at Chabot there will be plenty of shooting, the history doesn't take up too much time, it's well presented and not at all dull. It definitely helped me get the rifle fundamentals down.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-02-2013, 2:35 PM
as_rocketman's Avatar
as_rocketman as_rocketman is offline
CGSSA Leader
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 778
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Oh, there certainly is a little bit of variation. Any org that does five thousand individual shoots over the last few years is going to find some spread. (I work on the digest of the After Action Reports for lessons learned -- I've read them all.)

The Shoot Boss will always try to read the class, try to work with the strengths and weaknesses of a given range, etc. But there are minimum requirements. At a given shoot we may slow down the round count if everyone is nearly out of ammo, spend more time on a given point of instruction, spend more time grinding on squares to get good groups rather than burn more AQT's, that kind of thing. And sometimes it goes the other way and we get to do a little extra.

I had a class once where all of my students were pretty advanced and actually knew their history, so we met standards quickly and got to do additional stuff. Instead of Three Strikes we talked about Ticonderoga, Bunker Hill, the Battle of New York, etc. We spent more time on sling use, alternate field positions, wind and distance estimation than usual. And we got in about 15 AQTs and had a 66% Rifleman rate. It was a good shoot.

But the only situation where we will actually sacrifice part of our course of instruction is for safety reasons. There is no danger of any given shoot turning into an all-history class. That's what we have Libertyseeds for! (www.libertyseed.org)
__________________
Riflemen Needed.

Ask me about Appleseed! Send a PM or see me in the Appleseed subforum.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-02-2013, 4:44 PM
PurplePeople PurplePeople is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Emerald Hills aka unincorporated Redwood City
Posts: 164
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

(Nero here.) For those looking at attending the June shoot at Chabot, I'll be doing the 'low round count' variation again, since the drought is still on.

For those who know the usual Appleseed course of fire, the biggest differences are:

- No morning redcoats, instead the time is spent on setting up gear.

- Dry fire after we introduce each position and its steady hold factors: No live fire until an instructor has looked over each shooter's position and helped make adjustments.

- Doing transitions may be bumped to Sunday morning, so likely no AQT for score on Saturday.

Round count last time was just under 100 for Saturday, and 200-250 on Sunday, depending on whether or not you shot all of the AQTs (many sit out one in the PM to rest up / save ammo).

It feels really slow starting on Saturday, but things pick up once we've got everyone squared away. If you've been out before, but kept in practice (and you have, right?!) consider just doing Sunday.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:08 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.