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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 05-17-2013, 10:03 PM
RON573 RON573 is offline
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Angry NEED HELP WITH A CETME

Howdy out there. I purchased a CETME about a year ago and in the last year it has added 10 years to my age. I have had a number of problems with it and have checked everything I know to check. All head spaces appear to be in spec and it is still a single shot rifle. I need to find someone who knows a lot more then I do about these rifles. Is there someone out there that can look at this tomato steak and tell me if it is worth fixing. I don't mind spending reasonably to get this fixed but at this point, after trying everything, I don't have a clue what is really wrong. Does anyone know of someone, hopefully in Southern Cal but at this point, anywhere, that can diagnose this rifle?
Thanks in advance,
PapaRon
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2013, 11:45 PM
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List the problem first then the steps u tried, then maybe some knowlegable others can chim in.

Have u tried other CETME forums?
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2013, 2:36 AM
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Go to an HK forum
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Old 05-18-2013, 5:05 AM
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Jason Cotter is the best to fix it. I have a 91 clone with problems and he diagnosed and fixed it for 300.00. Very cheap in my book. Runs prefect.
His company http://www.investmentgradefirearms.com/
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Old 05-18-2013, 6:23 AM
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  #6  
Old 05-18-2013, 10:49 AM
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HK forums snub their noses at the cetme and eventually someone will chime in and send them over to the militaryfirearm.com site. MFA used to be the old cetmerifle forum and many of the original members are still online.

Without having he rifle in my hands or playing 20 questions, I can only guess at the problem. Best case would be the ejector jumping out if it's track under the bolt causing the bolt to stop before it can fully cycle. A trigger pack height issue would be the next best case. Worst case is that you have no bolt gap at all and the carrier is resting on the cocking handle support leaving the rollers hanging limp in the trunnion, or you got one of the guns built with little to no chamber fluting.

Going through the diagnostic steps (20 questions game) narrows it down pretty quickly.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:51 PM
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Default CETME

Thanks all, I will contact Mr. Cotter you suggest and see if he is willing to take a look at it. So far, head space within spec., cocking handle gap within spec.. I have tried 8 different magazines both CETME and HK91 with no difference. My rifle chamber is definitely not "fluted" I would call it more like a number of scratches running parallel to the bore. The cases are not in any way deformed after ejection, just dirty lines. I have never heard that as a possible cause of problem. Please clarify.
Thanks,
PapaRon
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Old 05-19-2013, 1:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RON573 View Post
Thanks all, I will contact Mr. Cotter you suggest and see if he is willing to take a look at it. So far, head space within spec., cocking handle gap within spec.. I have tried 8 different magazines both CETME and HK91 with no difference. My rifle chamber is definitely not "fluted" I would call it more like a number of scratches running parallel to the bore. The cases are not in any way deformed after ejection, just dirty lines. I have never heard that as a possible cause of problem. Please clarify.
Thanks,
PapaRon
He is hard to contact by phone so try e-mail also. He knows his HK's.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:24 AM
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Default CETME

Thanks. I send him an email last night. I will pass along any results.
Thanks again.
PapaRon
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Old 05-19-2013, 1:00 PM
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HK Pro Ghilliebear
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2013, 4:36 PM
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The chamber flutes should be around .035" deep if I remeber correctly, think "spark plug gap" and thats about how deep they need to be. If your CETME is built with an older mil surp barrel, the futes most likely are within spec. If it was made after tha ban on imported barrels, where U.S. made barrels were substituted, that might be the problem.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:17 PM
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try member Roccobro. Avoid HK specific forums.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2013, 11:44 PM
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My flutes are nowhere near 35/1000 in depth. Like I mentioned, there is really no flutes at all. There is just a round chamber with some grooves scratched on the sides. If you polish up a spent case, the case looks new with no distortions at all. Aren't the spent cases supposed to be noticeably deformed?
Is there a fix for this beside trying to find an old barrel?
Thanks for the help.
PapaRon
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  #14  
Old 05-20-2013, 12:29 AM
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Roccobro hasn't logged on since Jan
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  #15  
Old 05-20-2013, 2:44 AM
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Spent cases (After tumbling) out of fluted chambers have scores or lines on the sides. They're noticeable, but not horrible, about the size of a light scribe line.

What EXACTLY is your rifle doing? It's impossible to diagnose without very specific symptoms to look at.

-Dave
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  #16  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RON573 View Post
My flutes are nowhere near 35/1000 in depth. Like I mentioned, there is really no flutes at all. There is just a round chamber with some grooves scratched on the sides. If you polish up a spent case, the case looks new with no distortions at all. Aren't the spent cases supposed to be noticeably deformed?
Is there a fix for this beside trying to find an old barrel?
Thanks for the help.
PapaRon
Sounds like the flutes are not cut properly. I'd say "We need pictures", but I know how hard it is to get pictures of chamber flutes in a roller locking gun. They should definitely be more than just scratches on the sides of the chamber. Should be 12 well defined, evenly spaced grooves. I made a jig years ago that would cut chamber flutes using a spring loaded needle file, but it required the barrel to be out of the rifle. If the flutes are in fact the issue, you'll probably need to send it out to get a new barrel installed.
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  #17  
Old 05-20-2013, 3:40 PM
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Lone Mountain Outfitters in Henderson NV are HK experts.
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  #18  
Old 05-20-2013, 4:32 PM
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It's not being a CETME that has it screwed up, it's that whoever slapped the parts set onto their receiver did a bad job. Is it a Century?
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  #19  
Old 05-20-2013, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
It's not being a CETME that has it screwed up, it's that whoever slapped the parts set onto their receiver did a bad job. Is it a Century?
Most likely a Century.
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  #20  
Old 05-20-2013, 4:48 PM
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Thanks all. I checked everything one last time, lubed it up and carefully put it back together. I am going to the range on Wednesday to give it one last chance. I even have some Santa Catalina Ammo made for this gun. If it duds out again, I will send it to someone. Jason has contacted me and is willing to look at it. I will shoot an email to Lone Mountain after I post this and see what they say. I am getting the bad feeling that the problem is the chamber and the "flutes" but I'll try again.
Thanks everyone for the encouragement and help.
PapaRon
PS: YES IT IS A CENTURY.
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  #21  
Old 05-20-2013, 4:49 PM
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Pure CETME rifles do NOT shoot full power 7.62NATO. They were designed for a underpowered .30cal Spanish round. There are heavy spring kits available to allow NATO ammo shooting.
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Old 05-20-2013, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmunk View Post
Lone Mountain Outfitters in Henderson NV are HK experts.
Hi,
Is that Lone Mountain Outfitters or Long Mountain Outfitters?
Thanks,
Ron

I just called Long Mountain and they do work on these but since it is a Kalifornia rifle, they won't touch it. I can't seem to find a Lone Mountain Outfitters.

Last edited by RON573; 05-20-2013 at 5:01 PM.. Reason: forgot to add some information
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2013, 4:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RON573 View Post
Hi,
Is that Lone Mountain Outfitters or Long Mountain Outfitters?
Thanks,
Ron
Long. Sorry. http://www.702shooter.com/gun-stores...in-outfitters/
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2013, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Army View Post
Pure CETME rifles do NOT shoot full power 7.62NATO. They were designed for a underpowered .30cal Spanish round. There are heavy spring kits available to allow NATO ammo shooting.
Your information is extremely dated as it only applies to the Cetme Modelo A and early to mid production Modelo B rifles. Late production B's and all of the Modelo C rifles were switched from a 60 degree locking piece to a 50 degree LP for the higher powered ammo. In fact, Santa Barbara made barrels are stamped with the "cross in a circle" NATO designation.

I'm extremely interested in seeing even one of these "heavy spring kits" you speak of, even a link to an ancient website would be great! I'd even settle for a scan of an out of print document.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:42 PM
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My rifle has a "C" as a prefix for the serial number. Does that mean that mine is a Modelo C unit? Also, where is the "cross in a circle" mark located?
Thanks,
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Old 05-21-2013, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holescreek View Post
Your information is extremely dated as it only applies to the Cetme Modelo A and early to mid production Modelo B rifles. Late production B's and all of the Modelo C rifles were switched from a 60 degree locking piece to a 50 degree LP for the higher powered ammo. In fact, Santa Barbara made barrels are stamped with the "cross in a circle" NATO designation.

I'm extremely interested in seeing even one of these "heavy spring kits" you speak of, even a link to an ancient website would be great! I'd even settle for a scan of an out of print document.
See? Even I can learn new info

Apex has parts.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:34 AM
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I've been researching, building, and blueprinting cetme and HK parts far beyond what anyone would consider normal since I built my first one in 2009. There is a ton of mis-information spread about these rifles, mainly from HK guys that want to feel that their overpriced clones are superior in some way. Whenever someone states new "facts" I try to collect the information and try to trace it back to its source.

Quote:
My rifle has a "C" as a prefix for the serial number. Does that mean that mine is a Modelo C unit? Also, where is the "cross in a circle" mark located?
Thanks,
The primary difference between the model B and C rifles is the model B carriers have lightening cuts under the lower rail section of the carrier. The earliest model B carriers can be found with both 50 and 60 degree shouldered locking pieces. I have studied dozens of locking pieces and so far have only found one 60 degree for my collection so I'm guessing that Cetme disposed of the 60's when they made the switch to NATO ammo.

Your cetme is probably a CAI built rifle and as such will not have an original barrel because they needed the barrel to be a US part for 922r. All the original barrels were sold out of the kits to builders. I have an original SB barrel still in the paper wrapping sitting in a box in the shop. The NATO stamp is just in front of the chamber taper on the SB barrels. Yours will likely have no markings whatsoever because it was made here for civilian use.

If you did have an original barrel, proper chamber flute depth wouldn't even be a question but because CAI built guns were made by the lowest bidder a lot of guns were made with improperly fluted chambers. That's not to say that yours was one of them, just that it happened...a lot.

In fit, form, and function the Cetme is equal to the HK91 (when properly built) because it is the grandfather of the 91. H&K made some minute changes to ensure that some parts were not interchangeable but the only functional changes they made was the locking piece shoulder angle change from 50 degrees to 45 degrees to offset the weight they took off of the carrier to aid in FA cycling. The H&K uses a superior trigger pack, I use them in many of my Cetmes.

As I stated above, diagnosing your gun isn't a big deal, but it sounds like you are just looking for someone to send it to. If that is the case and you aren't in a hurry: http://www.fairfaxfirearmsrepair.com/
The guy is recommended by CAI for repairing Cetme's that are out of warranty. A couple of people have used them, they do a good job, and aren't expensive from what I read.
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:44 PM
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Thanks Holescreek. I sent him an email just now and after I give this rifle one more try tomorrow, I will get it boxed up and shipped out to someone. This rifle has me so frustrated. I have built a number of AKs and they all go bang every time the trigger is pulled. I have tried everything I can glean from blogs to find out what makes this rifle tick or in my case not tick. I really hate to admit it but I am throwing up me hands on this one.
Thanks again for the referral.
PapaRon
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:27 PM
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Holescreek,
My experience at the range last week was the same dismal performance I have had for months. I boxed it up and sent it off to Keith at Fairfax Firearm Repair for him to look it over and decide what to do. I hope it is fixable.
Thanks everyone for your help with this project. I will report back when I have some answers one way or the other. I may have a real rifle or just a parts gun. Thanks again,
PapaRon
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