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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #121  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:47 PM
Fritz265 Fritz265 is offline
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This is one of the best breaks out there but who wants that on the end of there AR barrel
[/QUOTE]

I bet that biyatch is LOUD...
  #122  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:51 PM
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Good one. It wasn't an attempt at self promotion and I'm no badass, but I do know how to put a round downrange once in while.
But you're right Devil. I used a bare-bones M16 A2 (aside from my Ma Duece) during my two tours in Iraq as an Infantryman with 1/4 Weapons Co. and 1st MarReg. When it hits the fan, all the fancy bells and whistles many civilians spend heaps of money on are simply needless. But hey, they look really badass, it's our right as US citizens and kudos to all the American companies who market them to a very hungry civilian populace. But in all reality, it doesn't matter how much you've thrown down on a firearm - it's the man behind that weapon which matters. His training. His experience. His cool under fire. You can't buy that @ Magpul. I know, I know, very sage advice...lol
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  #123  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:54 PM
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Exactly. We'll be we'll equipped for the next revolution
  #124  
Old 05-20-2013, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Metal God View Post
This is a brake/flash hider
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Prima...pws-fsc556.htm

Here is a review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NFRbrdgqr0

These are brakes but kinda work as flash hiders
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io2wilwieY0

I've seen others but ones enough to show they are out there . This is not to say that this device is great at both muzzle rise and flash suppression . Im sure you have to give up a little of both to get some of each . I'm sure there is a way to make a device that works excellent as both a brake and a flash hider . It would just look like a soda can hanging off the end of your rifle .

This is one of the best breaks out there but who wants that on the end of there AR barrel
That first link... that brake/flash hider, does not flash hide.

Yes it helps, but i'm pretty sure in the dark, that thing shoots out a big burst of fire sideways. It's design is very similar to other brake/flash hiders i've owned or own.

The following link is what I expect out of a flash hider.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5ih_c_4yo
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Last edited by HK Dave; 05-20-2013 at 9:03 PM..
  #125  
Old 05-20-2013, 9:17 PM
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I would rather buy the muzzle brake now that helps with muzzle jump, than buy a different one, have it put on, then find out down the line that I wanted the good one after all.

I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
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  #126  
Old 05-21-2013, 5:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Fritz265 View Post
There are muzzle brake/flash suppression combos on the market. I can't attest to how affective they are but they exist.
i'm in the research phase now. for me it's staying on target. i had a 14.5 midlength that i had for years that i could shot the snot of a target w/o any problems, then switched over to 16" the added length seemed to affect my ability to stay on target with rapid follow up shots. although i could save a few bucks and just keep practicing i guess. i did not have this problem when i was in the mil. but, i was alot younger then.
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  #127  
Old 05-21-2013, 5:42 AM
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Recoil builds character.
i'm a recoil junkie myself....i just like to stay on target.
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  #128  
Old 05-21-2013, 5:48 AM
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But you're right Devil. I used a bare-bones M16 A2 (aside from my Ma Duece) during my two tours in Iraq as an Infantryman with 1/4 Weapons Co. and 1st MarReg. When it hits the fan, all the fancy bells and whistles many civilians spend heaps of money on are simply needless. But hey, they look really badass, it's our right as US citizens and kudos to all the American companies who market them to a very hungry civilian populace. But in all reality, it doesn't matter how much you've thrown down on a firearm - it's the man behind that weapon which matters. His training. His experience. His cool under fire. You can't buy that @ Magpul. I know, I know, very sage advice...lol
Take two identical weapon systems. One with a brake and one with a standard A2 bird cage. See which one you're able to engage with more efficiently and then say all those bells and whistles are useless. And I can say this with truth behind it cause ive done it. Let me tell you, the difference is not subtle.
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  #129  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:05 AM
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Take two identical weapon systems. One with a brake and one with a standard A2 bird cage. See which one you're able to engage with more efficiently and then say all those bells and whistles are useless. And I can say this with truth behind it cause ive done it. Let me tell you, the difference is not subtle.
Have you tried your bells and whistles under combat conditions? Shooting a piece of paper for grouping and at a human being who's shooting back at you are entirely different tests.
  #130  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:16 AM
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My ARs get MBs because bullet buttons are for suckers.
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  #131  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:36 AM
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Have you tried your bells and whistles under combat conditions? Shooting a piece of paper for grouping and at a human being who's shooting back at you are entirely different tests.
Here we go again. Mr. "I know better because I've been there" Fritz.

Since you have so much combat experience already, why are you still asking here whether a muzzle break is useful or not?! You should have formed an opinion on that already, no?

That's how we spot a troll 10 miles down a road.
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  #132  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:45 AM
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guaranteed replies
  #133  
Old 05-21-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Fritz265 View Post
Have you tried your bells and whistles under combat conditions? Shooting a piece of paper for grouping and at a human being who's shooting back at you are entirely different tests.
No one doubts it is different... but being that it is much more stressful to hit your target, accurately, in combat situations... wouldn't you want the absolute best chance to do so?

If you know you could get your follow up shots... or your burst to hit within a tiny area, wouldn't you feel more confident?

However... i'm not entirely sure a soldier would be allowed to run a brake... i know my brother who is career military has never run a brake... he does run suppressors though which act as a brake.
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  #134  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by HK Dave View Post
No one doubts it is different... but being that it is much more stressful to hit your target, accurately, in combat situations... wouldn't you want the absolute best chance to do so?

If you know you could get your follow up shots... or your burst to hit within a tiny area, wouldn't you feel more confident?

However... i'm not entirely sure a soldier would be allowed to run a brake... i know my brother who is career military has never run a brake... he does run suppressors though which act as a brake.
Right. The military doesn't run brakes because they don't see them as a justifiable expense that makes a difference under field conditions.

Suppressors are used for obvious reasons.
  #135  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:06 AM
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Honestly, I can see both sides. Yes, muzzle devices can make the weapon handle better. No, they don't really make a difference in combat or to the experienced.

All the cool follow up shots and shooting on your back that costa teaches is just that. Cool tricks from a firearms instructor that bases his knowledge on training, not practice.

The general weapons that a majority of the fighting force are using are pretty basic, and many calgunners have better weapons than our fighters.

Most of us can agree that if you practice with something enough, you're gonna be damn good with it. Give an average civilian that has range time but little to no formal training a $3500 noveske with nothing but the best components and a sweet Multi thousand dollar optic and he will have nothing against an average Marine with an A2 and irons.
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  #136  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:06 AM
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wow so glad you are a expert in this topic. its post like this that are ruining this website. No longer do people post good questions or new ideas. Now it is just people posting personal opinions about things that only pertain to their exact method of shooting.

  #137  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:15 AM
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Honestly, I can see both sides. Yes, muzzle devices can make the weapon handle better. No, they don't really make a difference in combat or to the experienced.

All the cool follow up shots and shooting on your back that costa teaches is just that. Cool tricks from a firearms instructor that bases his knowledge on training, not practice.

The general weapons that a majority of the fighting force are using are pretty basic, and many calgunners have better weapons than our fighters.

Most of us can agree that if you practice with something enough, you're gonna be damn good with it. Give an average civilian that has range time but little to no formal training a $3500 noveske with nothing but the best components and a sweet Multi thousand dollar optic and he will have nothing against an average Marine with an A2 and irons.
You were a Marine. I'm pretty sure that we were trained to hit a dog target at 500 meters with iron sights without big budget holographics or scopes. We did fine with it.
  #138  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:17 AM
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No longer do people post good questions or new ideas. Now it is just people posting personal opinions about things that only pertain to their exact method of shooting.

yeah, like that?

This entire site is based on personal opinion and experience so not sure what the hell you're eluding to.

Tell me, what's the best handgun in the world? I'll wait for you to tell me the best is whatever YOU own. Right?
  #139  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:19 AM
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You were a Marine. I'm pretty sure that we were trained to hit a dog target at 500 meters with iron sights without big budget holographics or scopes. We did fine with it.
If that was the best way to do it, why are the issuing aimpoints and Eotechs?


Just because something is possible one way, doesn't mean there is not a better way to do it.
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  #140  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:24 AM
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Right. The military doesn't run brakes because they don't see them as a justifiable expense that makes a difference under field conditions.

Suppressors are used for obvious reasons.
Hmm, I think you're wrong on this one.

The reason they don't issue brakes in the military is because all infantrymen would become worthless at night or entering any dark room.

The muzzle blast to eyes conditioned to darkness is so horrific, you'd not be able to see anything for quite a while.

It has nothing to do with it being a justifiable expense being that brakes can be made as cheaply as an A2 flash hider.
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  #141  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:32 AM
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If that was the best way to do it, why are the issuing aimpoints and Eotechs?


Just because something is possible one way, doesn't mean there is not a better way to do it.
I'm not necessarily saying it's the BEST way. The point is that they teach the art of MARKSMANSHIP first. You don't need a fancy muzzle brake to hit a man at 500 meters because you only need to hit the target ONCE.

The red dots they use today are for close range urban combat they're involved in where the need to pull the weapon to your shoulder to obtain full sight alignment before firing may not be practical. They're a great tool for the purpose.
  #142  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:34 AM
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Hmm, I think you're wrong on this one.

The reason they don't issue brakes in the military is because all infantrymen would become worthless at night or entering any dark room.

The muzzle blast to eyes conditioned to darkness is so horrific, you'd not be able to see anything for quite a while.

It has nothing to do with it being a justifiable expense being that brakes can be made as cheaply as an A2 flash hider.
So, what you're saying is that they value suppression over the dubious value of brakes for long distance shot placement?
  #143  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:37 AM
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I'm not necessarily saying it's the BEST way. The point is that they teach the art of MARKSMANSHIP first. You don't need a fancy muzzle brake to hit a man at 500 meters because you only need to hit the target ONCE.

You came here with your mind made up. People gave you their reasoning, and it didnt match yours, so it was promptly thrown out.

People build there rifles how they want, get over it. Otherwise, have fun with the troll thread.
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  #144  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:40 AM
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You came here with your mind made up. People gave you their reasoning, and it didnt match yours, so it was promptly thrown out.

People build there rifles how they want, get over it. Otherwise, have fun with the troll thread.
Apparently, you haven't read all of my posts in this thread. I started as a skeptic and with the addition of many points of view, I'm actually considering trying one out.

But they're still not necessary for me to hit my target up to the maximum effective range of my rifle.
  #145  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:40 AM
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Wait...wait... thoughs things have a purpose?? Lol go figure!!


OP I know what you mean, though I dont shoot 3-gun nor worry to much of giving out my location when firing the AR15. I purely buy if for keep it on target, nothing more or less. Well maybe looks too!
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  #146  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:43 AM
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Apparently, you haven't read all of my posts in this thread. I started as a skeptic and with the addition of many points of view, I'm actually considering trying one out.

But they're still not necessary for me to hit my target up to the maximum effective range of my rifle.
I read damn close to all of them.


It's about repeated hits in a shorter amount of time. For people throwing them on just for fun,shooting slow fire, I can't speak for them.


If you want to see the benefit, get your self a shot timer, and shoot a rifle with a good brake, and one without.
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  #147  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:45 AM
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I read damn close to all of them.


It's about repeated hits in a shorter amount of time. For people throwing them on just for fun,shooting slow fire, I can't speak for them.


If you want to see the benefit, get your self a shot timer, and shoot a rifle with a good brake, and one without.
I will. Because I need that functionality at a rifle range.
  #148  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:47 AM
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I will. Because I need that functionality at a rifle range.



Just like you said about the red dots, it's there for a specific purpose. Same is with a muzzle brake.

Unless you are shooting timed completion, or just in general like to shoot fast and accurately, I don't see a point. But to each their own.

If you are sitting on the rifle range, taking a shot, settling back down etc etc, then I tend to agree with you.
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  #149  
Old 05-21-2013, 11:52 AM
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Just like you said about the red dots, it's there for a specific purpose. Same is with a muzzle brake.

Unless you are shooting timed completion, or just in general like to shoot fast and accurately, I don't see a point. But to each their own.

If you are sitting on the rifle range, taking a shot, settling back down etc etc, then I tend to agree with you.
Dude, I'm just messing with you at this point. You're correct. To each his own, afterall, it's THEIR money.....
  #150  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:10 PM
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I can certainly understand the need in a competition environment but for the novice shooter? Not so much.

If I have the money, I can put what ever the heck I want on my AR.

Does that mean all novice shooters need to stick with A2 pistol grips, birdcage flash hiders and M4 stocks?

The beauty of the AR platform is customization. Make it how you want.

I say go full mall-ninja if someone wants.

Me, I want the best shooting platform I can have for the money I want to spend.

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  #151  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:34 PM
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So, what you're saying is that they value suppression over the dubious value of brakes for long distance shot placement?
Yap, flash suppression is more important to a soldier than the value of a brake. With proper flash suppression, the soldier doesn't lose his night vision, and is harder to find and shoot.

In a competition environment, the addition of a brake to your rifle makes for a huge advantage. If you've never tried one, the second you do, you'll understand.

Of course in competition, you generally shoot during the day and get to go home after the show is over... quite different from what you deal with in combat.

Where abouts are you? If you want to try a brake before you buy one, I'd be happy to let you shoot one of my ARs with a surefire brake to compare to one with a flash hider.
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Last edited by HK Dave; 05-21-2013 at 12:36 PM..
  #152  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:43 PM
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Dude, I'm just messing with you at this point. You're correct. To each his own, afterall, it's THEIR money.....
Q.E.D.
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  #153  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:44 PM
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I dunno, the AKs have all had brakes. The 74 Zig Zag is about as good as it gets. So ARs may not have had issued brakes, but other nations have issued brakes since the beginning so.. *shrug*
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:52 PM
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From a soldiers perspective, I can see how a muzzle brake would not be optimal for many situations. They often have to fire within close proximity of one another, or inside of small buildings or structures that would only amplify the concussive effects of a muzzle brake. with that in mind, yes, a flash hider would be a better option all day. Something to consider in an AR-15 that may find itself used in a home defense role....

Off the top of my head, the only military issued rifles I can think of with muzzle brakes are the M-107 and Mk 12. The Mk 12 of course typically has it's Ops Inc brake stuffed inside of a can to keep things civil. It's unlikely that the M-107 would ever see use for room clearing or CQB due to it's size and cartridge.
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  #155  
Old 05-21-2013, 12:55 PM
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Danomite556 Danomite556 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fritz265
As a former Marine and having been a qualified rifle expert and having fired thousands of rounds in combat with a milspec M4, I can say that it mattered little but civilians love to dress up their rifles more likely to make them look more menacing rather than offer functionality


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I'm just reading along them BAM, I start laughing out loud. I love when people learn how to do something a certain way and when technology changes things for the better there is always someone to speak up and say SHOES, FHOOOOEY...I use to walk uphill both ways in the snow barefoot!
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Old 05-21-2013, 12:56 PM
Fritz265 Fritz265 is offline
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Originally Posted by pc_load_letter View Post
If I have the money, I can put what ever the heck I want on my AR.

Does that mean all novice shooters need to stick with A2 pistol grips, birdcage flash hiders and M4 stocks?

The beauty of the AR platform is customization. Make it how you want.

I say go full mall-ninja if someone wants.

Me, I want the best shooting platform I can have for the money I want to spend.
Well, logic could dictate that one should learn to drive before building an Indy car but, it's their money.
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Old 05-21-2013, 1:00 PM
Fritz265 Fritz265 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz265
As a former Marine and having been a qualified rifle expert and having fired thousands of rounds in combat with a milspec M4, I can say that it mattered little but civilians love to dress up their rifles more likely to make them look more menacing rather than offer functionality




I'm just reading along them BAM, I start laughing out loud. I love when people learn how to do something a certain way and when technology changes things for the better there is always someone to speak up and say SHOES, FHOOOOEY...I use to walk uphill both ways in the snow barefoot!
Except that walking is walking,and shooting is shooting. There's no technology in the world that could replace real marksmanship skills. Muzzle brakes, holographics sights and whatever else you want to bolt on to your rifle will still be defeated by a trained shooter with a bolt action rifle with iron sights. It's all window dressing. I know that it's all part of the fun of building a custom rifle but that's all it is. My opinion.
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Old 05-21-2013, 1:01 PM
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From a soldiers perspective, I can see how a muzzle brake would not be optimal for many situations. They often have to fire within close proximity of one another, or inside of small buildings or structures that would only amplify the concussive effects of a muzzle brake. with that in mind, yes, a flash hider would be a better option all day. Something to consider in an AR-15 that may find itself used in a home defense role....

Off the top of my head, the only military issued rifles I can think of with muzzle brakes are the M-107 and Mk 12. The Mk 12 of course typically has it's Ops Inc brake stuffed inside of a can to keep things civil. It's unlikely that the M-107 would ever see use for room clearing or CQB due to it's size and cartridge.
I wonder if firing an AR with a brake in an enclosed environment would make your ear drums burst.

Personally... I'd never want to fire an AR with a brake inside a closed room.
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...Slow, deep breath in followed by two quick, shallow exhales, then one long breath out. It should sound like "HEE HEE HOOOOOOOOooooooo...HEE HEE HOOOOOOOOooooooo". Once your comfortable with that breathing pattern, try to sync the tempo up with your heart rate. "Lub-dub...HEE HEE HOOOOOOOOooooooo... etc". ~ CBruce
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Old 05-21-2013, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Fritz265 View Post
Well, logic could dictate that one should learn to drive before building an Indy car but, it's their money.
"Logic" would dictate that, IF a person has lots of time on their hands or are interested in becoming a good marksman. Some just want stuff to go BOOM and for their friends to say, "WOW BADASS RED DOT DUDE".

I'd be willing to bet lots of folks don't get out to the range more than a few times a year because of their busy life schedules... or because this hobby is at the bottom of an important list of things to do.

So using things like brakes, red dots and such, can make a poor shooter into a halfway decent one.

It makes the hobby more fun.
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...Slow, deep breath in followed by two quick, shallow exhales, then one long breath out. It should sound like "HEE HEE HOOOOOOOOooooooo...HEE HEE HOOOOOOOOooooooo". Once your comfortable with that breathing pattern, try to sync the tempo up with your heart rate. "Lub-dub...HEE HEE HOOOOOOOOooooooo... etc". ~ CBruce
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Old 05-21-2013, 1:07 PM
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BTW I'll never understand how marines shoot to 500 yards with iron sights... let alone how Palma shooters do it to 1000 yards.
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...Slow, deep breath in followed by two quick, shallow exhales, then one long breath out. It should sound like "HEE HEE HOOOOOOOOooooooo...HEE HEE HOOOOOOOOooooooo". Once your comfortable with that breathing pattern, try to sync the tempo up with your heart rate. "Lub-dub...HEE HEE HOOOOOOOOooooooo... etc". ~ CBruce
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