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  #41  
Old 03-10-2013, 10:36 PM
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Very interesting. Your pistol's power now approaches a 30-30. I read a while ago that once you put a pistol in these carbine kits, the law says you can't take it out. Is that true?
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  #42  
Old 03-10-2013, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAGLS View Post
I was considering my first Glock to be the 20 or SF and wasn't sure I could run .40sw and 10mm. I guess I'll be getting one now.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
(I am thinking about going totally featureless so I can use and drop my normal capacity magazines. This would require a wall behind the grip...let me sleep on that idea for a while.....how about a aluminum mag well with a TIG welded vertical plate welded on the backside..?....hmm...just rambling boys)
Creative thinking there Bob. Impressive idea. Thanks for the post and new thoughts to ponder. Great Thread!
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  #43  
Old 03-10-2013, 11:08 PM
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Just use a grip plug and plastic weld a grip wrap type wing to it with a strap around the receiver for extra stability if you choose.
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  #44  
Old 03-10-2013, 11:53 PM
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Epic! If i wasn't spending all my money hoarding components I'd be tempted. The 20sf is my favorite Glock. The 10mm round kicks booty!
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  #45  
Old 03-11-2013, 6:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
The forward portion would be considered a "barrel shroud" and a "second handgrip", therefore it will still need a maglock & 10 round magazine to be CA legal as a handgun.

Because of the "barrel shroud" and "second handgrip" features, it will still need to be a fixed 10 round or less magazine semi-auto pistol.

However, the forward portion would be considered a "barrel shroud" and a "second handgrip". Which would make it an assault weapon, if it is semi-auto and uses detachable magazines.

Therefore, as a semi-auto pistol, it will still need a maglock and 10 round or less magazine.
There seems to be prior discussion on this topic. The forward portion may be considered as part of the upper receiver, thus not a "barrel shroud"?
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  #46  
Old 03-11-2013, 7:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMatt View Post
I read a while ago that once you put a pistol in these carbine kits, the law says you can't take it out. Is that true?
See post #8.
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  #47  
Old 03-11-2013, 7:10 AM
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Man, I've been considering the 10mm for a while now, I think you just sold me.
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  #48  
Old 03-11-2013, 7:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post
There seems to be prior discussion on this topic. The forward portion may be considered as part of the upper receiver, thus not a "barrel shroud"?
Even if it is considered part of the frame, it would still be considered a "second handgrip" (which is a restricted feature).
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  #49  
Old 03-11-2013, 9:03 AM
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Thanks for the read Bob, greatly appreciate the information defiantly helps with my decision. Cheers!
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  #50  
Old 05-09-2013, 12:27 PM
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this is an awesome write up, i love it
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  #51  
Old 05-09-2013, 1:09 PM
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Just called and left my name to order a kit for my G19
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  #52  
Old 05-09-2013, 5:46 PM
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Inspiring Bob. Thank you for posting!
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  #53  
Old 05-09-2013, 7:17 PM
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Regarding the legal issues regarding the forward grip,
what prevents someone from making a handgun that
simply has a very long slide, and a very long barrel?



Something like this, but longer, and with a more
useful handgrip on the underside... That way you
could have a detachable stock in your B.O.B.,
that you would only put on if SHTF, but under
most circumstances, it would just look like a
really long semi-auto?
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  #54  
Old 05-09-2013, 7:26 PM
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[QUOTE=BCDavis;11307019]



QUOTE]

Have fun shooting that with your support hand under the slide
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  #55  
Old 05-09-2013, 7:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCDavis View Post
Regarding the legal issues regarding the forward grip,
what prevents someone from making a handgun that
simply has a very long slide, and a very long barrel?



Something like this, but longer, and with a more
useful handgrip on the underside... That way you
could have a detachable stock in your B.O.B.,
that you would only put on if SHTF, but under
most circumstances, it would just look like a
really long semi-auto?
Hey BC...sweet looking 1911....

Someone might correct me if I'am wrong, but I think even owning a detachable butt stock (that makes a Short Barreled Rifle or SBR) is considered constructive possession in Kalifornistan. Against the law. While the FEDS recognize and will issue a SBR stamp, California does not.

If you lived in Arizona (for instance) and did the Federal paperwork you could legally own one of these:




I would run my long barreled GLOCK over in Arizona.

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  #56  
Old 05-10-2013, 4:20 AM
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Good work Mr. 10mm!
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  #57  
Old 05-10-2013, 9:58 AM
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There is such thing as overclocking a bullet. Jacket separation or fragmentation can ensue. It would be interesting to see a ballistics test using the Noslers at these speeds to see what happens.
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  #58  
Old 05-10-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
If I negate the pistol grip with a 'wall' behind so I can't wrap my thumb around the backside of the grip, and keep all the other evil features OFF the weapon (Featureless) then I can run with my normal capacity magazines (more than 10 rounds) with no bullet button required. Kind of like owning a Mini_14 or a featureless AR and using your legally owned preban magazines and no bullet button.

Iam trying to scheme up some ideas on that subject...
I'm glad I came across this thread. I always loved the idea of having a pistol and a carbine that used the same exact mag and ammo. (ie Glock17 or Glock22 with a KelTec S2K).

Anyways, the wrap around thing you are talking about is already being sold. This kydex wrap around is made for the the glock grip on KelTec's Sub2000.

http://shop.solartactical.com/KELTEC...N-GRIP-339.htm
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  #59  
Old 05-10-2013, 11:36 AM
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Default Yeah I don't think so...

Umm ew....
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  #60  
Old 05-10-2013, 1:44 PM
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It's not my 1911. Just a photo to toss out an idea.

Obviously you would build it with a forward hand grip
that was connected to the actual frame, and would not
interfere with the action of the slide. I just wonder why
that would be considered illegal. If the barrel was
under the length that qualifies it as a rifle. Then it
wouldn't matter if you had a pistol grip, because
it's technically still a pistol. With a long barrel, but
still a pistol. And yes, you could not put on the folding
stock in CA legally. But I don't understand why you
could not have a long barrel, long slide, a shotgun-style
front grip, and be able to use extended, pre-ban magazines.
Seems like you could make a pretty accurate carbine,
that could share the same ammo with your other
pistols. Just much more accurate...
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  #61  
Old 05-10-2013, 1:47 PM
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Ok, nevermind.

I just checked and the law says you can't have any secondary handgrip on a pistol,
regardless of the configuration...

Dang. Seemed like a pretty cool idea.
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  #62  
Old 05-10-2013, 2:58 PM
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Tagged
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  #63  
Old 05-11-2013, 6:54 PM
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this is awesome, I've been drooling over the idea of having a pistol caliber carbine aside from my .22LR AR. I'd easily sacrifice a glock to make one of those, and gladly keep it i rifle mode until I move out of CA some day.
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  #64  
Old 05-13-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnhrdgr2 View Post
Anyways, the wrap around thing you are talking about is already being sold. This kydex wrap around is made for the the glock grip on KelTec's Sub2000.

http://shop.solartactical.com/KELTEC...N-GRIP-339.htm
I just put on this kydex wrap on my Glock22. While it was able to wrap around the Glock22 grip, you can tell it was not made for it. The Glock22 grip is a tad wider by about 1.5cm than the S2K glock grip. The difference in the grip width is the 'hole' on the actual G22 grip.
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  #65  
Old 06-03-2013, 10:59 AM
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Anyone been able to order one of these kits from anywhere? I'd love to have another 9mm carbine.
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  #66  
Old 06-03-2013, 11:59 AM
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Nice shooting

Thanks
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  #67  
Old 06-03-2013, 9:08 PM
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Well Done OP!!
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  #68  
Old 06-03-2013, 10:00 PM
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Great write up Bob! I have been on the fence about picking up a G20 for a while, getting closer......
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  #69  
Old 07-07-2013, 3:46 AM
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Amen brother...well written and well said. I am also a big G20 guy for ALL the reasons you mention. A G20 is the biggest no-brainer in today's arsenal. The carbine is ggggggravy Darn, the price for the G20 just went up on the secondary market thanks to this thread. I am smiling outside, but crying inside.
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  #70  
Old 07-07-2013, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Even though the BATFE has changed their position and now state that handgun -> rifle -> handgun is legal, CA DOJ still holds the old ATF viewpoint that handgun -> rifle -> handgun = SBR.

Current CA DOJ viewpoint:
Handgun made into a rifle, is now a rifle.
That rifle made into a handgun, is now a weapon made from a rifle (which is a SBR) [PC 17170(c)].

Yup. Don't 'reconvert' back to a pistol when in CA.
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  #71  
Old 07-28-2013, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
Yup. Don't 'reconvert' back to a pistol when in CA.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Mech tech upper, fixed stock and kydex grip wrap is both CA and FED legal. If you own and posses mags over 10 rounds, it would be legal to use in this configuration.

Converting this set up back to a pistol would be breaking CA law.

Now, a question:

Would owning a mechtec upper with a fixed stock and owning a handgun that would fit that set up be illegal? Some type of constructive possession to make SBR under CA law?

Thanks
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  #72  
Old 07-28-2013, 2:46 PM
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the mech tech is only offered with a 16+" barrel
SBR = barrels shorter than 16"
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  #73  
Old 07-28-2013, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSpam View Post
the mech tech is only offered with a 16+" barrel
SBR = barrels shorter than 16"
Duh - I'm slapping myself right now.
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  #74  
Old 07-28-2013, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Even though the BATFE has changed their position and now state that handgun -> rifle -> handgun is legal, CA DOJ still holds the old ATF viewpoint that handgun -> rifle -> handgun = SBR.

Current CA DOJ viewpoint:
Handgun made into a rifle, is now a rifle.
That rifle made into a handgun, is now a weapon made from a rifle (which is a SBR) [PC 17170(c)].

Bingo.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter if that interconversion occurred inside or outside California - the Glock, 1911, etc. frame has been 'contaminated' for purposes of CA law regardless of where the pistol->rifle conversion occurred.
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  #75  
Old 07-28-2013, 3:32 PM
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[QUOTE=NATEWA;11930044]Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Mech tech upper, fixed stock and kydex grip wrap is both CA and FED legal. If you own and posses mags over 10 rounds, it would be legal to use in this configuration.[quote]

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has no pistol grip or other 'characteristic features' (folder/telestock, flash hider, forward pistol grip, etc.) can use detachable magazines of any size without triggering AW status.

[This assumes the hicaps are in fact pre-2000 and legal to possess, or you are a LEO that acquired a legit post 2000 mag.]

For other configurations, emember to keep overall length to 30" or more with stock folded *closed*. (Here CA vs ATF standards differ due to Rooney case.)


Quote:
Converting this set up back to a pistol would be breaking CA law.
Yup.

Quote:
Now, a question:

Would owning a mechtec upper with a fixed stock and owning a handgun that would fit that set up be illegal? Some type of constructive possession to make SBR under CA law?
If there were not detectable intent to violate the law, both the separate working handgun and the ability to convert this gun to a CA+Fed legal carbine is OK. There's really no way to 'overpredict' that the prospective carbine would then be converted back to a pistol.

If I did have a MechTech carbine wanting to be assembled using a pistol frame, I would get rid of the pistol slide/bbl however first,
since there's not a lawful use for it [unless you had another spare frame etc.] at least in CA - though a lenity defense for out of
state use could be made.
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Last edited by bwiese; 07-28-2013 at 3:35 PM..
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  #76  
Old 07-28-2013, 3:36 PM
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Great write up OP!
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  #77  
Old 07-28-2013, 4:18 PM
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I see lonewolf (don't think it is oem) and glockmeister sell glock frames. Anyone else make a glock oem frame?
oem frame with parts =$300
Mech tech upper w/fixed stock = $400
Solar tactical kydex wrap (assuming no probs w/install) =$50

Around $750 for a basic set up, unless I am missing something?
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  #78  
Old 07-28-2013, 4:20 PM
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[QUOTE=bwiese;11930691][QUOTE=NATEWA;11930044]Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Mech tech upper, fixed stock and kydex grip wrap is both CA and FED legal. If you own and posses mags over 10 rounds, it would be legal to use in this configuration.
Quote:

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has no pistol grip or other 'characteristic features' (folder/telestock, flash hider, forward pistol grip, etc.) can use detachable magazines of any size without triggering AW status.

[This assumes the hicaps are in fact pre-2000 and legal to possess, or you are a LEO that acquired a legit post 2000 mag.]

For other configurations, emember to keep overall length to 30" or more with stock folded *closed*. (Here CA vs ATF standards differ due to Rooney case.)


Yup.

If there were not detectable intent to violate the law, both the separate working handgun and the ability to convert this gun to a CA+Fed legal carbine is OK. There's really no way to 'overpredict' that the prospective carbine would then be converted back to a pistol.

If I did have a MechTech carbine wanting to be assembled using a pistol frame, I would get rid of the pistol slide/bbl however first,
since there's not a lawful use for it [unless you had another spare frame etc.] at least in CA - though a lenity defense for out of
state use could be made.
Thanks - was wondering about out of state assembly/disassembly.
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  #79  
Old 07-28-2013, 4:23 PM
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Response was for post 74, not 75.
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  #80  
Old 07-28-2013, 4:37 PM
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Quick look at the Mechtech website looks like you can remove the stock and run it without one. Would it's OAL make it an AOW per Feds? What does CA say about Pistol -> AOW -> Pistol?
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