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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 01-20-2011, 8:13 PM
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Default Crimson Trace laser grips on your CCW?

Hello Everyone,

I am pretty new to this area of shooting, and I am curious if any of you use these grips on your concealed carry weapons? If you do, why, and if not, why not? I have had two instructors say they do not like them, but then the sellers tell you that during a time of stress, the CT laser grips will help you acquire the target quicker and easier. What say you all? Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2011, 8:15 PM
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I have them on most of my listed firearms. The vast majority of defensive shooting incidents happen in low light...

-Gene
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Old 01-20-2011, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I have them on most of my listed firearms. The vast majority of defensive shooting incidents happen in low light...-Gene
OH, but Gene! Haven't you heard? They'll reveal your position to the perpetrator!!
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Old 01-20-2011, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kid Stanislaus View Post
OH, but Gene! Haven't you heard? They'll reveal your position to the perpetrator!!
Interesting point, but that brings up another question, slightly different topic, but related. I see many tatical lights that people mount on the front of their hand guns. Do not these totally reveal their position? Seems like they would reveal one's position even more and make the light a wonderful target. What am I missing here with regard to thier use? Seems like the laser would make a smaller target. Thanks.
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Old 01-21-2011, 5:34 AM
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FYI.
Some issuing agencies do not allow laser aiming devices on handguns listed on the CCW permits they issue.
I believe, this is accordance to their departmental policy that also forbids their LEOs from having lasers on their duty firearms.
So, check with your issuing agency prior to obtaining/installing a laser on your CCW handgun.

I like the Crimson Trace lasers. IMO, they are the best commerically available laser aiming devices currently on the market.
I'm thinking about getting one for my Kel-Tec P32.

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Originally Posted by sport.pilot View Post
Interesting point, but that brings up another question, slightly different topic, but related. I see many tatical lights that people mount on the front of their hand guns. Do not these totally reveal their position? Seems like they would reveal one's position even more and make the light a wonderful target. What am I missing here with regard to thier use? Seems like the laser would make a smaller target. Thanks.
Correct usage of the weapon mounted light is to leave it off and only turn it on momentarily to identify the target, so you can make a shoot/no shoot decision. This way you can also momentarily blind the target depending on how powerfull the light is.
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Last edited by Quiet; 01-21-2011 at 5:43 AM..
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Old 01-21-2011, 5:57 AM
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Excellent information - thanks.
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:49 PM
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I would think that if the perpetrator does not know your location, you already have a tough time saying you were in immediate danger.
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:58 PM
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I passed on a firearm with CT installed cause I heard Sac County doesn't allow these types of devices on the firearms that are on your permit.
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Old 01-25-2011, 5:50 AM
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Originally Posted by heyjerr View Post
I would think that if the perpetrator does not know your location, you already have a tough time saying you were in immediate danger.
Hmmm, If the perp is in your house and you see him or her and they do not see you, I would still think that would be viewed as immediate danger. All very interesting.
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Old 01-25-2011, 7:49 AM
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I passed on a firearm with CT installed cause I heard Sac County doesn't allow these types of devices on the firearms that are on your permit.
Not sure were you heard this, but Sac has no such restrictions.
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Old 01-25-2011, 7:56 AM
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Not sure were you heard this, but Sac has no such restrictions.
That's cool, I guess I just never questioned it. Although I found that I wanted a SA EMP instead of the SW1911PD with CT. Thanks for the info, so now I know for future possibilities.
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Old 01-25-2011, 8:29 AM
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i have CT on all of my 3 listed ccw. LCP, SW1911PD with CT and XD.

Sac. here
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Old 01-25-2011, 9:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sport.pilot View Post
Hmmm, If the perp is in your house and you see him or her and they do not see you, I would still think that would be viewed as immediate danger. All very interesting.
Just my opinion - if the intruder does not know you are there, he'd better be doing something that is a direct threat to you before you use lethal force. If you don't make your presence known (red dot to the chest/face, "I have a gun", etc) before pulling the trigger, you do not have what I would consider to be a strong case of self defense. Obviously there could be other circumstances that keep this from being a black & white statement, but I wouldn't want to shoot someone just for breaking in if they haven't threatened me or my family yet....what if he turns tail and runs instead of taking a single step in my direction? Not to say I'm not angry or wouldn't WANT to avenge my front door, but I am not justified in doing so in the scenario I'm envisioning.

I'm not a lawyer, this is just my personal opinion, this is just a discussion - not an incitement, insert usual disclaimers here, etc.
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Old 04-29-2011, 1:24 PM
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I've been shooting for about 20 years now and I just recently bought the crimson trace laser grips. I like them but they are no substitute for good practical shooting with normal sights. They are fun to play with but are you going to leave the laser switched to ON at all times. Chances are you could lean on the grip and turn the laser on and use up the battery. When you actually pull your weapon I don't think you will have time to turn the switch to the ON position, let alone remember to turn it on.
They are a tool and like any tool they have pro's and con's but they should not be used as a crutch or a substitute to sights.
just my opinion
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Advice here is mostly good advice but its best to familiarize yourself with the laws & if needed contact DFW. or local Law Enforcement

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Last edited by Tac380; 04-29-2011 at 1:25 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-29-2011, 4:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyjerr View Post
Just my opinion - if the intruder does not know you are there, he'd better be doing something that is a direct threat to you before you use lethal force.
CA Penal Code 198.5 sez you are LEGALLY PRESUMED to be in fear of losing your life or suffering great bodily harm when an intruder forcibly enters your domicile.
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Old 04-29-2011, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tac380 View Post
I've been shooting for about 20 years now and I just recently bought the crimson trace laser grips. I like them but they are no substitute for good practical shooting with normal sights. They are fun to play with but are you going to leave the laser switched to ON at all times. Chances are you could lean on the grip and turn the laser on and use up the battery. When you actually pull your weapon I don't think you will have time to turn the switch to the ON position, let alone remember to turn it on.
They are a tool and like any tool they have pro's and con's but they should not be used as a crutch or a substitute to sights.
just my opinion
Same old shibeloth about laser sights and the batteries running down, as if people don't have the good sense to replace the batteries on a carry gun periodically. Also, maybe you could offer a good argument to support your claim that laser sights are not a suitable substitute for "normal" sights.
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Old 04-29-2011, 8:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Stanislaus View Post
OH, but Gene! Haven't you heard? They'll reveal your position to the perpetrator!!
I guess me yelling at him to, "stop, get down, don't make me shoot you!" didn't clue him in...

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Old 04-29-2011, 10:02 PM
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They're cool, plus you can use them to play with your dog/cat.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77bawls View Post
They're cool, plus you can use them to play with your dog/cat.
Muzzle discipline, please... (realize you're j/k)

-Gene
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Old 04-30-2011, 11:09 AM
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Placer county says you cannot modify your carry gun in any way. This includes CT laser grips. The only way is to have your gun come with them stock.
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:04 PM
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I have the CT grip on my S&W carry weapon. I like it. It took some getting used to but now I see where I am much more accurate with the Lazer. I see it as all positive. If your area has no restrictions I would highly recomend the Lazer grip. CT lazer if possible. JMHO
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btw my Airweight came with the CT grip installed at the factory, with the S&W logo. This would keep you from breaking any modification code. I have an LCR with a CT grip I installed purchased over the counter. I find the one S&W is installing on their Airweights to be much more comfortable to shoot than the LCR/CT combo............another HO

Last edited by hayman; 04-30-2011 at 12:09 PM..
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Old 04-30-2011, 1:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Stanislaus View Post
Same old shibeloth about laser sights and the batteries running down, as if people don't have the good sense to replace the batteries on a carry gun periodically.
\


Just as Night Sights periodically need replacement I realize batteries need replacement. That was not my train of thought. I was merely stating if you leave the laser grip switched ON you should expect to drain the battery at a much faster rate. If you have it the switch in the OFF position I doubt you will remember to switch it to the ON position, and if you do remember to switch it will you have the time to do so.

tried to quote this part below separately but I was unable to do it right
[/QUOTE]\ Also, maybe you could offer a good argument to support your claim that laser sights are not a suitable substitute for "normal" sights.[/QUOTE]\

This is why I say its not a practical substitute for practice with normal sights. Again I like the crimson laser grip and have it installed on my Sig P229 which also have night sights. (BTW Last month I sent my gun back to Sig to replace my night sights) I practice with both the laser turned on and turned off. I also practice point shooting where I do not rely on my sights. Again I say...Laser grips are a tool and like any tool they have pro's and con's but they should not be used as a crutch or a substitute to sights.

Each individual needs to consider all the pro's and con's and then decide what is best for them.
Again this is just my opinion and we all not how opinions vary.
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Keep in mind If you get stopped by a game warden or other LEO and you say "well so and so on CalGuns said that this was ok and legal" That warden or LEO is gonna laugh at you and cite you.
Advice here is mostly good advice but its best to familiarize yourself with the laws & if needed contact DFW. or local Law Enforcement

Always confirm it for yourself. Ignorance is no excuse.

Contact the Governor now
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php

Last edited by Tac380; 04-30-2011 at 1:20 PM..
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Old 04-30-2011, 1:25 PM
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I also want to say I really enjoy practicing with my laser grip, I did not realize just how much bullet drop I was experiencing on the range when I would set my target all the way down range (indoor range). I realized then just how much bullet drop i was experiencing.

So again I feel laser grips do serve a purpose and have pro's and con's to their use. Each shooter needs to determine what is best for them. If a person leaves the laser switched to ON and frequently checks the laser's battery then there should not be a problem, but many people don't think to check as often as they should till its to late.
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Keep in mind If you get stopped by a game warden or other LEO and you say "well so and so on CalGuns said that this was ok and legal" That warden or LEO is gonna laugh at you and cite you.
Advice here is mostly good advice but its best to familiarize yourself with the laws & if needed contact DFW. or local Law Enforcement

Always confirm it for yourself. Ignorance is no excuse.

Contact the Governor now
http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
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Old 04-30-2011, 8:10 PM
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The easiest way to check the battery is to push the activate button and see if the laser light is starting to fade. From that point, its just a matter of brain power, some people have it and some don't!!
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Old 05-02-2011, 8:41 AM
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I have a Ruger SP101 with the CT laser grip. IMO the best thing about it is you can fire pretty accurately from just about any position such as from the hip, behind cover, around a corner, etc. After practicing a little, I can get that red dot on target really quickly.
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Old 05-02-2011, 8:59 AM
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I had to remove my laser max from my G23 because El Dorado county says "no lasers" on a ccw weapon.
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Old 05-03-2011, 12:45 PM
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No Lasers? that stinks, They can be a good tool when used properly and with some practice. I'll never understand why some departments put some of the BS restrictions on the CCW.
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Advice here is mostly good advice but its best to familiarize yourself with the laws & if needed contact DFW. or local Law Enforcement

Always confirm it for yourself. Ignorance is no excuse.

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http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
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Old 05-03-2011, 6:22 PM
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While I am not a fan of lasers, nor do I own any, I can see why some people like them. As Tac380 said, don't let them become a crutch.
As far as CCW permits, and what an issueing agency finds acceptable, well if they issue at the moment we have bigger fish to fry elsewhere. such as getting every sheriff in this state issueing. Then we can address the other BS like lasers, modifications, and limiting you to 3 guns and these sorts of things.
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Old 04-22-2013, 6:19 PM
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Lasers on one pistol have improved my shooting on all guns. Simply put, anticipating recoil as been lessened a lot.

I am not sure why leaving the switch on with the button unpressed would drain the battery more than otherwise.

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Old 04-25-2013, 4:38 PM
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Anyone know if ORANGE COUNTY allows lasers? Their policy says that the armorer who inspects your CCW pistol 'reserves the right' to disallow it if it is different than manufactured specs. Just want to know if that includes lasers for OC
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Old 04-26-2013, 7:28 AM
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[QUOTE=Tac380;6306473]\


Just as Night Sights periodically need replacement I realize batteries need replacement. That was not my train of thought. I was merely stating if you leave the laser grip switched ON you should expect to drain the battery at a much faster rate. If you have it the switch in the OFF position I doubt you will remember to switch it to the ON position, and if you do remember to switch it will you have the time to do so.
QUOTE]

Actually, the CT laser is not on and using the battery if the switch is turned on. You still have to push the button on the grip to turn the laser on and begin battery consumption. So long as your holster is not activating the laser your battery should not be draining.
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Old 04-26-2013, 8:24 AM
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I recently completed a concealed carry training course, and during the classroom time the instructor played a video regarding laser sights... turns out it was the Crimson Trace promotional video you can order free on their website. I joked that the next video will be for Vegas timeshares, but I have to admit, that video does make some good points about practical application of a laser sight in self-defense scenarios, and has caused me to re-think getting one for my carry gun. Certainly no substitute for lots of practice though.
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Old 04-26-2013, 8:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77bawls View Post
They're cool, plus you can use them to play with your dog/cat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Muzzle discipline, please... (realize you're j/k)

-Gene
My wife HATES our cats...She may see this as a plus anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vdubjerry View Post
Placer county says you cannot modify your carry gun in any way. This includes CT laser grips. The only way is to have your gun come with them stock.
They actually say:

Q: Can I modify or alter my weapon?

Our agency understands that some alterations made to a weapon are done for safety and usage purposes, rather than recreational reasons. Due to this, our agency is currently reviewing our past declaration of prohibition for any alterations of a weapon. At such time that we are able to post what, if any, alterations are accepted, we will update this website. Any questions will be discussed with our Range Master to determine validity and legality of alterations. Any alterations made on a weapon without the express approval from our agency will immediately result in the suspension of the existing CCW permit and possible permanent revocation of the permit.


So your laser statement is true but your stock statement is misleading. They will approve of things like iron sight replacements and the like.
http://www.placer.ca.gov/departments...ts/ccwfaq#_q27
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Old 04-27-2013, 2:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I have them on most of my listed firearms. The vast majority of defensive shooting incidents happen in low light...-Gene

^^^^^THIS^^^^^
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Old 04-27-2013, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyjerr View Post
I would think that if the perpetrator does not know your location, you already have a tough time saying you were in immediate danger.
Yeah, so it's better to have some kind of light on your gun so he can zero in on you!! Juz kidd'n, I've got CT's on all my guns.
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Old 04-27-2013, 3:42 PM
Kid Stanislaus Kid Stanislaus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogxtz View Post
I had to remove my laser max from my G23 because El Dorado county says "no lasers" on a ccw weapon.
They probably think disc brakes on cars are excessive!
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