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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-22-2013, 5:42 PM
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Default "kontradictions" - A leftist explains the problems with gun control to other leftists

h/t Instapundit

http://kontradictions.wordpress.com/...to-get-better/

Quote:
1. Stop Sending Mixed Messages

Allow me this humble suggestion: The best way to convince the American public that you’re not interested in taking guns away is to stop talking about taking guns away.

...

2. You Have To Understand What You’re Regulating

New rule: If you don’t know how guns work, you don’t get to craft legislation about them. There is nothing so embarrassing as watching a Democratic politician who has never held a gun in their life attempt to talk about why and how they should be regulated.

...

3. Stop Using Children

...

4. Stop Pretending Background Checks Don’t Already Exist.

Yes, it’s true that 90% of Americans like background checks for firearms purchases. Well it’s a good thing we have them!

...

5. Treat the NRA As What They Are: Other American Citizens

What you’re missing is that the vast portion of the NRA’s funds come not through corporate donors, but through contributions from average Americans. It was not a coincidence that between December 2012 and January 2013 the NRA grew 10,000 members every day, adding a full quarter-million new contributors to their roster since gun control reappeared in the national discussion last year. That’s just what happens when a populace that cares a lot about something gets mobilized. But the NRA – by which the Democratic party should mean “the American citizens who comprise the NRA because they believe in gun rights” – has consistently been characterized as the heartless, monolithic boogeyman.

...

6. Don’t Forget About Us!

Gun policy is not really as partisan a debate as mainstream media would suggest. There are plenty of left-leaning citizens and Democratic voters who love our guns.
Please remember point 6 at Calguns, too.
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  #2  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:21 PM
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It's disgusting how much fear and ignorance infests the Democratic party. I'm glad this guy "gets it", but where was he after Newtown?
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Last edited by arrix; 04-22-2013 at 6:26 PM..
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  #3  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:23 PM
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That was great!
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  #4  
Old 04-22-2013, 6:28 PM
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i'd have to question number 6, but i'd also question that republicans are true fighters of freedom too.
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You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.
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Old 04-22-2013, 7:03 PM
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Fantastic read. He hits the nail on the head on many issues.
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Old 04-22-2013, 7:06 PM
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Quote:
After the mass shooting in Aurora, I posted an article on why the “assault weapons” ban should not be renewed. Much to my surprise, it garnered a half million reads. This was not because I’m a great writer.
I disagree. The author "Kontra" is a great writer.

Excellent read. Only tiny quibble is the LEO poll should have indicated it was
those LEO who chose to respond, so there is a slight bias there. Still is very
usefull in showing how most LEO's do not support gun control.

I keep a link and a print out of his previous article for others to read as well:
Why Not Renew the “Assault Weapons” Ban? Well, I’ll Tell You…
http://kontradictions.wordpress.com/...-ill-tell-you/

Thx for post, Librarian.

Noble
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  #7  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:09 PM
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Problem is, no matter how flawed it may be, gun control is all about spiting people they hate. If facts and reasoning mattered, they wouldn't go so far out of their way to not change their minds.
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Old 04-22-2013, 7:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrix View Post
It's disgusting how much fear and ignorance infests the Democratic party. I'm glad this guy "gets it", but where was he after Newtown?
Read the linked article and find out. He was hauling our water in places most of us will not venture, let alone be effective. I wish some of our liberals here would swim more in those waters than they apparently do.
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  #9  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:32 PM
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That's a really good article.
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  #10  
Old 04-22-2013, 8:03 PM
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That was a very good read. Thanks for posting.
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  #11  
Old 04-22-2013, 8:06 PM
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Until people understand that meat is not made at the supermarket, we will continue to swim upstream.
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2013, 8:45 PM
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very well written.
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"Her hands, her comfort, her confidence, her choice.", Mr K re buying a gun for a woman.

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Old 04-22-2013, 9:40 PM
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I came across an article on Yahoo which surprised me:
http://news.yahoo.com/strict-gun-law...030423815.html

The short version is: Gun control doesn't work and can be harmful to public safety.
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  #14  
Old 04-22-2013, 9:53 PM
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Oops. Posted a dupe on this one. I really did run a search I swear! Three of them.

Great article though. Even a few friends on facebook shared it.
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  #15  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:13 PM
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We may not have the same views but this author seems like the kind of person that would actually TALK with us about things. Not "I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG! GET OVER IT!!"
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  #16  
Old 04-22-2013, 11:32 PM
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Thanks for the links.
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  #17  
Old 04-22-2013, 11:50 PM
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My hat's off to the author! It shows that there is a sign of life on the other side. But this argument is not expedient or convenient for the simpletons(like our retarded politicians) who try to reduce everything to the common lowest denominator. They truly depends on the people whose IQ is just about room temp or so.
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  #18  
Old 04-23-2013, 8:14 AM
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Good stuff, pretty much sums up my approach when I talk about gun control to liberals or Democrats who are pro-gun control.
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  #19  
Old 04-23-2013, 9:57 AM
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Well reasoned and spot on. We need serious discussion not polemical ranting from both sides. That young Maryland woman was very articulate!
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  #20  
Old 04-23-2013, 10:19 AM
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too much logic. must be suppressed :-\
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:55 AM
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I wish I could make every American in the country read that blog post.
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  #22  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:35 AM
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So this was the original source for "the shoulder thing that goes up". Too funny.

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  #23  
Old 04-23-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrix View Post
It's disgusting how much fear and ignorance infests the Democratic party. I'm glad this guy "gets it", but where was he after Newtown?
Everywhere. Here. All over internet forums, comment threads, and social media.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
The best way to convince the American public that you’re not interested in taking guns away is to stop talking about taking guns away.
A lot of leftists will see this as a purely strategic point. Hide the real agenda by not talking about it.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randian View Post
A lot of leftists will see this as a purely strategic point. Hide the real agenda by not talking about it.
That's what makes the article so great. Many of the points really could be taken as advice, as she slams the hell out of their idiocies.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellblade View Post
I came across an article on Yahoo which surprised me:
http://news.yahoo.com/strict-gun-law...030423815.html

The short version is: Gun control doesn't work and can be harmful to public safety.
Good read so far...still absorbing the info. The Dr. Gary Kleck interview vid
was a good listen as well.

A little irritating the info graphics (like the Kaiser map) don't have an
explanation of the data points... you have to follow the link to discover
exactly what they are tracking. In the Kaiser case, "Number of Deaths
Due to Injury by Firearms per 100,000 Population, 2009 ".

Thx for the link.

Noble
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  #27  
Old 04-23-2013, 1:32 PM
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Very well written. Thanks for sharing OP.
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Old 04-23-2013, 2:38 PM
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IMO the "this is advice" angle is pure rhetoric, meant to illuminate the fact that anti-gunners really do want to eradicate all guns. Advising them to "just be open" about it and expecting them to follow that advice is like telling a CEO to stop lying about his company's health.
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Old 04-23-2013, 2:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
IMO the "this is advice" angle is pure rhetoric, meant to illuminate the fact that anti-gunners really do want to eradicate all guns. Advising them to "just be open" about it and expecting them to follow that advice is like telling a CEO to stop lying about his company's health.
Maybe, but my take is the analogy is more like Republicans who advise Akin, Mourdock and those guys "for the love of God, please stop talking about rape because you're killing us". The author of the article identifies herself as leftist, wants to vote for the liberal political party (presumably), but finds their position on gun control misguided, dim-witted and unsupportable.

And yes, they are not going to take her advice, but they should.

Last edited by lasbrg; 04-23-2013 at 3:00 PM..
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Old 04-23-2013, 3:11 PM
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And yes, they are not going to take her advice, but they should.
They should, for whose benefit?

Admitting they DO want to confiscate all guns is unlikely to help them win any more support than they already have... but it certainly might to cost them some more moderate votes.

So yea, it might be good for us, but not so much for the gun grabbers... so they won't be taking that advice any time soon
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Old 04-23-2013, 3:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
IMO the "this is advice" angle is pure rhetoric, meant to illuminate the fact that anti-gunners really do want to eradicate all guns. Advising them to "just be open" about it and expecting them to follow that advice is like telling a CEO to stop lying about his company's health.
Yep, the first section pretty much gave a short history of dems saying they WANT to ban guns, confiscate them, etc. Even if they shut up about it, it does not mean they suddenly DON'T want to ban and confiscate. They certainly won't be honest about it and come out and say lets have an constitutional amendment to nullify the 2nd.

I still don't know what end goal (meaning, what exactly should the dems do on gun control) the author is hoping for.
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Old 04-23-2013, 3:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formerTexan View Post
Yep, the first section pretty much gave a short history of dems saying they WANT to ban guns, confiscate them, etc. Even if they shut up about it, it does not mean they suddenly DON'T want to ban and confiscate. They certainly won't be honest about it and come out and say lets have an constitutional amendment to nullify the 2nd.

I still don't know what end goal (meaning, what exactly should the dems do on gun control) the author is hoping for.
If I had to guess, I would say she thinks the political party platforms are like boxes of chocolate, except that some of the pieces that look like chocolate are actually little balls of sh*t. She is basically telling them "take that sh*t out of here".
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Old 04-23-2013, 3:52 PM
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yet another piece demonstrating why i don't see how people can see this as a political debate rather.

there were no revolutionary or political ideas in his article, simply educated and spelled out logical thinking where A leads to B leads to C and so on until one arrives at a terminal conclusion.

although it does a pretty good job of exposing ignorance on the part of gun control.
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Old 04-23-2013, 3:54 PM
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He forgot a big one:

7. Stop pretending gun control legislation is about reducing gun violence, because it doesn't. Be honest about its purpose, which is to (i) erode civil liberties and (ii) create crime out of thin air in order to justify a larger government and transfer power and wealth from the private sector to the government sector.
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Old 04-23-2013, 4:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDG View Post
He forgot a big one:

7. Stop pretending gun control legislation is about reducing gun violence, because it doesn't. Be honest about its purpose, which is to (i) erode civil liberties and (ii) create crime out of thin air in order to justify a larger government and transfer power and wealth from the private sector to the government sector.
That doesn't work with antis. They don't consider the RKBA to be a "civil liberty" to begin with, and don't believe gun control creates crime. A lot of them also don't mind big government.

You need to understand those people if you want to make a dent in their convictions. This is not a good argument at all. Doesn't work with them.
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Old 04-23-2013, 4:03 PM
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That doesn't work with antis. They don't consider the RKBA to be a "civil liberty" to begin with, and don't believe gun control creates crime. A lot of them also don't mind big government.

You need to understand those people if you want to make a dent in their convictions. This is not a good argument at all. Doesn't work with them.
Yes, but it doesn't make it any less true.
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Old 04-23-2013, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AMDG View Post
Yes, but it doesn't make it any less true.
Being right doesn't win minds. Otherwise the antis wouldn't be eating our lunch right now in California.

Do you want to be right, or do you want to win? Because self-righteousness only achieves alienation.
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Old 04-23-2013, 5:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDG View Post
He forgot a big one:

7. Stop pretending gun control legislation is about reducing gun violence, because it doesn't. Be honest about its purpose, which is to (i) erode civil liberties and (ii) create crime out of thin air in order to justify a larger government and transfer power and wealth from the private sector to the government sector.

she.....just saying.



no disagreement with your proposed #7.
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  #39  
Old 04-23-2013, 7:18 PM
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Really well said, thanks for posting.
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Old 04-23-2013, 8:00 PM
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formerTexan, did you rea the article? He/she wants the Democrats to stop attacking 2nd Amendment civil rights!
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