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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-22-2013, 7:50 PM
jdben92883 jdben92883 is online now
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Default Retaining DROS paperwork

I have a decent number of firearms...more than 20 less than 50. Rather foolishly I never gave much thought of keeping the DROS at the time of transfer. With all of this talk about registering this and registering that, I've become concerned that this may result in a problem for me. Can anyone point me or answer whether a firearms owner in CA must show proof of ownership?
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Old 04-22-2013, 7:54 PM
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Yeah.

Long guns don't have their serial number recorded on the DROS. Handguns are registered to you - that one might be a little easier to get back, if you DROS'd the handgun, than getting a long gun back.
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Old 04-22-2013, 8:04 PM
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I refuse to register squat. If they want it, they can come and try to take it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 8:09 PM
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Don't need to do it... just keep the model and serial numbers in a safe place in case they are stolen and you need to report it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 8:15 PM
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there's no registration required for long guns yet. Either FFL dealer or ATF will have your 4473s if dealer is out of business.

taking pictures of them is also a good way to document what you have.
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Old 04-22-2013, 8:43 PM
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DROS proves nothing. You don't need DROS to register. Go back to not worrying about it.
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Old 04-22-2013, 9:02 PM
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^ I was reading up on ABxx that has been making it's way through SAC while I was surfing on my phone coming back from a long road trip. It mentioned having to register all semi-rifles w/detachable magazines based on when it was purchased. Notwithstanding the upcoming registration for long arms after Jan 1, I was questioning how I would ever prove when/if I purchased a particular firearm.
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Old 04-22-2013, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdben92883 View Post
^ I was reading up on ABxx that has been making it's way through SAC while I was surfing on my phone coming back from a long road trip. It mentioned having to register all semi-rifles w/detachable magazines based on when it was purchased. Notwithstanding the upcoming registration for long arms after Jan 1, I was questioning how I would ever prove when/if I purchased a particular firearm.
Why would one need to prove they purchased a firearm??

Perhaps it was bought used and you might fear it was once stolen? Then due diligence on buyer is helpful. If a guy says "hey, sh, got a deal for you" in some dark alley then maybe. And if by some weird chance the serial got ran then you might have some splainin to do.

Otherwise it's your property. He only other "issue" lets surmise is you have a post 1991 handgun and you don't have a dros for it. Then you are in some violation as since 1991 all ppt's have to be dros'd. But I'm not a lawyer so who knows.

I would t worry about it unless its for insurance
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Old 04-22-2013, 9:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pure3d2 View Post
I refuse to register squat. If they want it, they can come and try to take it.
My thoughts exactly. The state of California can kiss my ***!!


OP- I keep the DROS records on most of my guns, my dealer always gives me a copy and I have a stack of them on the top shelf of my safe in a folder. Best thing to do. All FFLs are required to give you a copy of the DROS by law if you ask.
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Old 04-22-2013, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1681 View Post
there's no registration required for long guns yet. Either FFL dealer or ATF will have your 4473s if dealer is out of business.

taking pictures of them is also a good way to document what you have.
There's no way for a private citizen to access ATF's out of business records.
It is widely thought that ATF, in disregard of specific language in the GCA of 1968 that forbids it, has been creating a database using out of business records.
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Old 04-23-2013, 3:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1681 View Post
there's no registration required for long guns yet. Either FFL dealer or ATF will have your 4473s if dealer is out of business.

taking pictures of them is also a good way to document what you have.
This was discussed a while back. There is a federal law that prohibits the US DOJ from disclosing dealer records. This would include out of business 4473s.

FUNDING FOR BUREAU NOT AUTHORIZED FOR DISCLOSURE OF DATA
Pub. L. 112-55, div. B, title II, Nov. 18, 2011, 125 Stat. 609,
provided in part: "That, during the current fiscal year and in each
fiscal year thereafter, no funds appropriated under this or any
other Act may be used to disclose
part or all of the contents of
the Firearms Trace System database maintained by the National Trace
Center of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
or any information required to be kept by licensees pursuant to
section 923(g) of title 18, United States Code
, or required to be
reported pursuant to paragraphs (3) and (7) of such section, except
to: (1) a Federal, State, local, or tribal law enforcement agency,
or a Federal, State, or local prosecutor; or (2) a foreign law
enforcement agency solely in connection with or for use in a
criminal investigation or prosecution; or (3) a Federal agency for
a national security or intelligence purpose; unless such disclosure
of such data to any of the entities described in (1), (2) or (3) of
this proviso would compromise the identity of any undercover law
enforcement officer or confidential informant, or interfere with
any case under investigation; and no person or entity described in
(1), (2) or (3) shall knowingly and publicly disclose such data;
and all such data shall be immune from legal process, shall not be
subject to subpoena or other discovery, shall be inadmissible in
evidence, and shall not be used, relied on, or disclosed in any
manner, nor shall testimony or other evidence be permitted based on
the data, in a civil action in any State (including the District of
Columbia) or Federal court or in an administrative proceeding other
than a proceeding commenced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives to enforce the provisions of chapter 44 of
such title, or a review of such an action or proceeding; except
that this proviso shall not be construed to prevent: (A) the
disclosure of statistical information concerning total production,
importation, and exportation by each licensed importer (as defined
in section 921(a)(9) of such title) and licensed manufacturer (as
defined in section 921(a)(10) of such title); (B) the sharing or
exchange of such information among and between Federal, State,
local, or foreign law enforcement agencies, Federal, State, or
local prosecutors, and Federal national security, intelligence, or
counterterrorism officials; or (C) the publication of annual
statistical reports on products regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, including total production,
importation, and exportation by each licensed importer (as so
defined) and licensed manufacturer (as so defined), or statistical
aggregate data regarding firearms traffickers and trafficking
channels, or firearms misuse, felons, and trafficking
investigations".
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