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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What weapon platform?
Carbine 7 26.92%
Pistol 17 65.38%
Shotgun 2 7.69%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:14 PM
agent.5 agent.5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
I'm contending that the handgun draw should already be hammered out to take "advanced" classes.
well. i am neither agreeing or disagreeing with your statement. I guess we need shot timer to determine basic vs advanced draw.


I contend that there is major time difference between basic handgun 101 draw and those with "advanced" skills

Last edited by agent.5; 03-21-2013 at 4:16 PM..
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  #42  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:18 PM
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From their posted curriculum:

"Dry drills firming the foundation in presentation (5-part draw)"

Doing 5 point draws with a dry gun sounds like 1 step above "NRA First Steps Pistol", which I would not expect to see in a class billed as "advanced".
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  #43  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
From their posted curriculum:

"Dry drills firming the foundation in presentation (5-part draw)"

Doing 5 point draws with a dry gun sounds like 1 step above "NRA First Steps Pistol", which I would not expect to see in a class billed as "advanced".
It really depends on what he will be teaching and I am not really sure what that is either. But dry firing IS required to practice the trigger control of a 5 point draw. The sooner that you prep the trigger, press the trigger, the sooner the gun will fire as a surprise.
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  #44  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
I'm contending that the handgun draw should already be hammered out to take "advanced" classes.
Indeed, and I may be speaking out of turn here, but...

How well does Gordon know any of these students, if at all? I think he's got to assess everyone's skill level first, see where they're at and make adjustments on the fly.

Most places have a progression of classes you have to go through in order to take an "advanced" class because they set the skills foundation of later classes. Without that benefit here, there are probably going to be a number of remedial things he goes over to ensure safety, reinforce proper skills, and to assess each shooters ability. Even with prior training, some folks have more natural talent than others and/or are much more practiced. And reinforcing skills we may take for granted isn't necessarily a bad thing.

When I taught advanced scuba diving classes to students I didn't know or train personally, the first hour at the water, sometimes two, was nothing more than an assessment of my student's ability and training.

Last edited by diveRN; 03-21-2013 at 4:33 PM..
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  #45  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:33 PM
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It also appears that the class is a GO as 5 person have signed up already, as indicated by our instructor's post and on another post he said that he needed at least 5 students to run the class.

Last edited by agent.5; 03-21-2013 at 5:18 PM..
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  #46  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:36 PM
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Many instructors like to know the background of a student, I've been asked what previous classes I've taken to be eligible for a certain class in the past. This "come one, come all" approach is new to me for a class billed as "advanced".

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Indeed, and I may be speaking out of turn here, but...

How well does Gordon know any of these students, if at all? I think he's got to assess everyone's skill level first, see where they're at and make adjustments on the fly.

Most places have a progression of classes you have to go through in order to take an "advanced" class because they set the skills foundation of later classes. Without that benefit here, there are probably going to be a number of remedial things he goes over to ensure safety, reinforce proper skills, and to assess each shooters ability. Even with prior training, some folks have more natural talent than others and/or are much more practiced. And reinforcing skills we may take for granted isn't necessarily a bad thing.

When I taught advanced scuba diving classes to students I didn't know or train personally, the first hour at the water, sometimes two, was nothing more than an assessment of my student's ability and training.
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  #47  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
Many instructors like to know the background of a student, I've been asked what previous classes I've taken to be eligible for a certain class in the past. This "come one, come all" approach is new to me for a class billed as "advanced".
Yep, it's new to me too. I'm looking at it as an opportunity to put some rounds down range, pick up some new things, and meet some folks. Anything beyond that is icing.... and there's still almost a month until the class. When I paid, I gave Gordon my address so your idea of him inquiring about shooting background may still be coming.

Even if there are relative noobs, it'll still be good.
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  #48  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:42 PM
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I'm not trying to be argumentative, this class seemed interesting as my friend in Sac says he likes their instruction, but wouldn't you be concerned that you're doing "advanced" handgunning like shooting and moving alongside a guy who just learned the 5 point draw a few hours earlier? That's my concern with this class.

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Yep, it's new to me too. I'm looking at it as an opportunity to put some rounds down range, pick up some new things, and meet some folks. Anything beyond that is icing.
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  #49  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
I'm not trying to be argumentative, this class seemed interesting as my friend in Sac says he likes their instruction, but wouldn't you be concerned that you're doing "advanced" handgunning like shooting and moving alongside a guy who just learned the 5 point draw a few hours earlier? That's my concern with this class.

not a concern if the class stays really small. You get more one-on-one time with the instructor. Maybe we need to discourage others to sign up now. After all shooting is all about improving the basic fundamentals, with trigger control being the most important. The better you do them, the better you shoot.
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  #50  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:50 PM
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Hope you guys have a good time, I'm sure you will, this class doesn't sound like it's for me. I want the guys drawing, turning, moving and shooting around me to have a bit more time behind the trigger than learning it all in 1 day.
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  #51  
Old 03-21-2013, 5:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
Hope you guys have a good time, I'm sure you will, this class doesn't sound like it's for me. I want the guys drawing, turning, moving and shooting around me to have a bit more time behind the trigger than learning it all in 1 day.
I read through Gray Ops web site extensively the other night because I had similar concerns. You might consider doing the same if you really want to get out and shoot. I doubt very seriously that he's going to conduct an unsafe class.

There are a TON of ways you can teach newbs and more advanced folks simultaneously including the use of multiple instructors, staged drills, etc.

I've been in several advanced firearms classes where even though everyone in attendance had previous training, each student's skills were all over the board. Makes for a challenging class from the instructor's POV, but they've always come off without a hitch.

I'm expecting no less from this one ... barring an 6.0 San Andreas earthquake that day.

I'd be totally ok with providing my shooting creds if we need to limit this to "advanced only" folks, but I don't think it's necessary.
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  #52  
Old 03-21-2013, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessegpresley View Post
Curriculum seems a bit confusing to me. Supposed to be an "advanced" class, but there's 5 point draw stuff, which is pretty handgun 1A. Then later there's shooting on the move, which is obviously more advanced. Seems like 0-100 MPH class which is a lot to pack into a single day.
Being that shooting is a perishable skill it is always good to begin with a little review. All of my classes begin with a review, we not only review Safety, First Aid Plan we have a little review of the basics to bust the rust off. Seeing how Advanced Shooting is only having a solid foundation of the basics and doing it over and over again, that's were the speed begins to pick up. You are correct that is should be ingrained but a quick review with any corrections made up front is firming up the groundwork for that solid foundation, that's why we train. 0-100 in 8 hours, you got to love it!!! You have to crawl be you walk and walk before you run...
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  #53  
Old 03-21-2013, 5:19 PM
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What are your prerequisites for the class, then?
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  #54  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:48 PM
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Well I'm in If I can get on a south bay carpool.. And in 'training' terms I'll be a total noob... Pm sent to prc77


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  #55  
Old 03-24-2013, 2:03 PM
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Pm sent. Interested in handgun and or rifle, near Richmond area during the week. I've got others in my group as well with lots of experience. willl be preferring a class more weighted towards advanced.
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  #56  
Old 03-25-2013, 7:10 AM
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Prerequisites, certificates, experience...I've seen some folks with a stack of certs that meet prerequisites that didn't know what end of the barrel the bullet comes out and I've had brand new shooters that have excelled well past others with much more experience. It simply comes down to Safety, Comfort, and Competence. Do the Benefits of the training out weight the risk? Physical comfort, can you do it? Competence is increasing your knowledge to provide experience and opportunity. When dealing with safety it is the Instructor's responsibility, rules mitigate risk. Emotional comfort of the student the perceived risks which some are questionings here, Rules Mitigate Risk. Physical Comfort, can you do it? Intellectual Comfort is a shared responsibility of both the student and the instructor. Competence is both Individual and Subjective traits...As the instructor I provide my experience and give you the opportunity, I'll use science, logic and reasoning to accomplish my (our) training goals. Consistency = Doing the same thing, the same way, same place, as much as possible, EVERY SINGLE TIME!

Through realistic and frequent training, one can learn to use the power of recognition to respond more efficiently during a dynamic critical incident.

Stay Safe, Remain Alert, and ALWAYS Be Dangerous!
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  #57  
Old 04-01-2013, 4:41 PM
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Thanks to everyone who had questions, concerns, and were truly interested in bettering their handgun skills by training. I hope I was able to answer all of you appropriately. All seats have been filled, class registration has closed!

See you on the 16th! I'm really looking forward to training at a new facility and bringing my "A" game back to the Bay...
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  #58  
Old 04-01-2013, 9:17 PM
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Congrats on the lucky folks who made it it it will be a blast. Look forward to seeing y'all dime other time. Gotta pay my taxes before I can go play
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  #59  
Old 04-15-2013, 12:56 PM
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As my email program ate some of my emails, can someone please confirm that tomorrow's class at Richmond starts at 8:30am? Bay 1?

Where is Bay 1? When I enter the facility, I see the club house, and I go to the public range by turning left. To go to Bay 1, do I go straight and pass the club house on my right?
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  #60  
Old 04-15-2013, 1:06 PM
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This is what was in my email....

Location: Richmond Rod & Gun Club, 3155 Goodrick Ave, Richmond, CA

We try to start every class promptly at 08:30 so plan on being at the range at least 15 minutes early to locate the range we will be on to accommodate time for parking, and gear preparation. For this course we’ll be in Bay 1. There is no need to check in at the Range Office, go directly to our assigned range. Parking will be outside of the Bay Area and access into the Bay’s will be on foot. As you come down Goodrich Ave. you’ll drive past the public range and enter into the parking lot were the Club House is, someone will be in the parking lot to direct you.

This class we be a go rain or shine so please wear the appropriate clothing and/or rain gear. Please ensure your weapon is empty before bring it onto the range. Dress warm, it could be a little chilly.


Required Equipment:

•Working Modern Handgun 9mm or larger
•300-400 rounds of ammunition
•Three (3) magazines or speed loaders - minimum
•Magazine pouches
•Belt holster (Strong side, Open, Concealed, Duty, or Tactical)
•Pants with belt, (long legs, no shorts)
•Cargo pockets recommended but not required
•Hearing protection
•Eye protection
•Ball cap
•Dress accordingly (Class goes rain or shine)
Recommended but not required

•Pants with cargo pockets
•Elbow & Knee pads


**Bring a lunch as we will be eating at the range.
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  #61  
Old 04-15-2013, 1:21 PM
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Thanks.
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  #62  
Old 04-15-2013, 2:52 PM
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onegtalon, thanks for the answer!

agent.5, if you have any questions please call me (209) 479-3145, Gordon

See everyone in the am! Safe travels...
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  #63  
Old 04-15-2013, 7:55 PM
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I am more than jealous of all who attend it will be a great day!
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  #64  
Old 04-17-2013, 7:02 AM
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So where are all the pics? I only took a couple of the cute blonde.
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