Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > CALIFORNIA SHOOTING CLUBS AND ORGANIZATIONS > California Precision Rifle Club
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California Precision Rifle Club California Precision Rifle Club Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-20-2013, 8:02 AM
Jonathan B Jonathan B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 31
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default slinging up

Successive shots from prone go lower and more to the right. Any suggestions?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-20-2013, 10:36 PM
Timberwolf's Avatar
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Antelope Valley
Posts: 6,300
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Without watching you shoot its hard to tell. But I suspect you're changing your check weld as the rifle settles in and your sling loosens.
__________________
I'm only smiling at you while you talk to me because it's hilarious that you really think I give a crap about you.

As I've gotten older I thought I was gaining patience, then I realized I simply don't give a crap.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-21-2013, 5:33 AM
Jonathan B Jonathan B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 31
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Whats a check weld?
The sling does loosen with each shot.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-21-2013, 5:46 AM
ocabj's Avatar
ocabj ocabj is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Riverside
Posts: 7,170
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

you're probably too loose on the sling since your position is relaxing and you're letting the rifle fall away from your body. Make sure the sling is high on the bicep. Make sure the rifle is over your support elbow when in position. Try choking up on the foreend with the support hand or shorten the sling a notch if choking up puts you too high up in the position.
__________________

Distinguished Rifleman #1924
NRA Certified Instructor (Rifle and Metallic Cartridge Reloading) and RSO
https://www.ocabj.net | http://jocabphoto.com

My AR15 Service Rifle - Used for CMP/NRA High Power Service Rifle Competitions
My Eliseo R5 (Remington 700) Tube Gun - Used for NRA High Power (Match Category) Competitions
My M1 Garand Service Rifle - Used for JCG Matches, rebuilt by Dean's Gun Restorations
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:59 PM
Jonathan B Jonathan B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 31
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

The sling is tight when I start. It loosens a little bit with every shot.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-22-2013, 1:49 PM
ocabj's Avatar
ocabj ocabj is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Riverside
Posts: 7,170
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan B View Post
The sling is tight when I start. It loosens a little bit with every shot.
You're going to have to rework the sling so that when you tighten it down, it won't come loose. That, or get a new sling that works more for shooting than for carrying.

When I tighten down a National Match '1917' style leather sling, I pretty much cut off the circulation to my arm when I tighten it around my arm (above the peak of the bicep, towards the shoulder).

See (9-10 sec mark):



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbTx-OzqorE&hd=1

I place the sling on the arm at pretty much the same height on the arm in both sitting and prone.

The sling never comes loose because when I tighten it down, the keepers/hooks are placed directly in line with the direction of the outgoing part of the sling to the rifle, so the rifle's pull from my body isn't loosening the sling.

See if you can rework your sling type so the sling tensions work against itself.
__________________

Distinguished Rifleman #1924
NRA Certified Instructor (Rifle and Metallic Cartridge Reloading) and RSO
https://www.ocabj.net | http://jocabphoto.com

My AR15 Service Rifle - Used for CMP/NRA High Power Service Rifle Competitions
My Eliseo R5 (Remington 700) Tube Gun - Used for NRA High Power (Match Category) Competitions
My M1 Garand Service Rifle - Used for JCG Matches, rebuilt by Dean's Gun Restorations
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-22-2013, 4:28 PM
Timberwolf's Avatar
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Antelope Valley
Posts: 6,300
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan B View Post
Whats a check weld?
The sling does loosen with each shot.
"check" is my hands don't always type what I think - I meant cheek.
__________________
I'm only smiling at you while you talk to me because it's hilarious that you really think I give a crap about you.

As I've gotten older I thought I was gaining patience, then I realized I simply don't give a crap.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-22-2013, 5:23 PM
Jonathan B Jonathan B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 31
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I wasn't familiar with the term `cheek weld'. I have been putting my eye as close to the rear sight as possible.
It's a standard military type sling, nylon. Bought it new. Can't figure out how to tighten it after it's on my arm? I do put the buckle in line with the direction of pull.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-22-2013, 5:48 PM
G-forceJunkie's Avatar
G-forceJunkie G-forceJunkie is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SCV, So. Cal
Posts: 4,134
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

http://www.ray-vin.com/tech/websling/webslinghelp.htm
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-23-2013, 6:05 AM
Jonathan B Jonathan B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 31
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Great video. The other question is `cheek weld'?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-23-2013, 9:04 PM
Timberwolf's Avatar
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Antelope Valley
Posts: 6,300
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan B View Post
Great video. The other question is `cheek weld'?
Its the position of the cheek on the stock. It needs to be the same with every shot, irons or scope. Shifting your cheek weld can shift your POI.
__________________
I'm only smiling at you while you talk to me because it's hilarious that you really think I give a crap about you.

As I've gotten older I thought I was gaining patience, then I realized I simply don't give a crap.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-26-2013, 1:44 PM
Roy Mustang Roy Mustang is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 178
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Could be a bad NPA...

When my rapid groups drift it's usually because I had a bad NPA setup.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-29-2013, 7:17 PM
Jonathan B Jonathan B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 31
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Can you explain NPA?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:24 PM
Timberwolf's Avatar
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Antelope Valley
Posts: 6,300
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan B View Post
Can you explain NPA?
Natural Point of Aim. Its where your rifle is pointed when your body is at rest in position. The best way to check it is to get into position with your rifle on target. Now close your eye and relax. Open your eyes and check your sights - where your rifle is pointed is your Natural Point of Aim. Adjust your position until tour NPA is on target.

If you're local to LA we might could meet up at either ASR or A Place to Shoot one weekend and maybe I could help you.
__________________
I'm only smiling at you while you talk to me because it's hilarious that you really think I give a crap about you.

As I've gotten older I thought I was gaining patience, then I realized I simply don't give a crap.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-01-2013, 11:56 AM
Jonathan B Jonathan B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 31
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Timberwolf,
Thanks for the offer. A Place to Shoot is farther than I usually like to drive. Usually go to Angeles Shooting Ranges because of the distance. Live in North Hollywood. Help would help.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-03-2013, 6:18 AM
Jonathan B Jonathan B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 31
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

My elbows move from the recoil with every shot. Do I need to move them back after every shot?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-03-2013, 8:42 AM
BrianRodela's Avatar
BrianRodela BrianRodela is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lancaster, Ca
Posts: 605
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Jonathan, the advice from those above is excellent but I would advise you to try to find and attend an Appleseed shoot. The 2 days of range time will dramatically improve your skills and you will have a better understanding of the advice given above.
__________________

Genuine MMCS, Firefighter and father of two great kids!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-03-2013, 3:21 PM
Roy Mustang Roy Mustang is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 178
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Default

Your elbows shouldn't be moving; something with your position must be off. You probably need to lean into the rifle more and get a tighter weld between your shoulder and the stock.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-10-2013, 11:47 AM
rconnerley's Avatar
rconnerley rconnerley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 179
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Lots of good advice here but tough to diagnose the problem on the forum. Your sling issue could be due to it being rigged incorrectly, not having a solid position (i.e. support elbow shifting) or may be a problem with the sling itself. I have seen some nylon slings that slip at the camming buckle (the buckle with the little tab to lock it in place) when properly tensioned. Getting some in-person help would be your best bet. I am a little far away, in Riverside, but let me know if you want a hand in the IE. +1 on a weekend at Appleseed would sort out the problem.
__________________
Interested in Appleseed? PM me for info
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-10-2013, 1:18 PM
ocabj's Avatar
ocabj ocabj is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Riverside
Posts: 7,170
iTrader: 40 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan B View Post
Timberwolf,
Thanks for the offer. A Place to Shoot is farther than I usually like to drive. Usually go to Angeles Shooting Ranges because of the distance. Live in North Hollywood. Help would help.
Note: You might be able to just go to a Mid-Range or XTC match at the BRRC and get some help. There should be a few High Masters who can help you out.

http://brrc.org
__________________

Distinguished Rifleman #1924
NRA Certified Instructor (Rifle and Metallic Cartridge Reloading) and RSO
https://www.ocabj.net | http://jocabphoto.com

My AR15 Service Rifle - Used for CMP/NRA High Power Service Rifle Competitions
My Eliseo R5 (Remington 700) Tube Gun - Used for NRA High Power (Match Category) Competitions
My M1 Garand Service Rifle - Used for JCG Matches, rebuilt by Dean's Gun Restorations
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-15-2013, 8:44 AM
milotrain's Avatar
milotrain milotrain is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,823
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

BRRC is a great place for you to learn more about position shooting. There are also two or three casual highpower matches of reduced course at Angeles, on the private Fort A range, every month on Saturday at 7:30am. I usually shoot them if I'm not working, and the newest addition 4th Sunday at 7:30am is very well attended by the guys who shoot at BRRC.


I fought with a websling for a while until I got it right. I put it as high up on my bicep as possible, above the pad on my jacket, then I push the cinch buckle to the very outside of my arm and crank it down. Usually is tight through a whole string, but I'm starting to play with a leather sling because it shouldn't change tension through the string.
__________________
weg: That device is obsolete now. They replaced it with wizards.
frank: Wait a minute. There are more than one wizard? Is [are?] the wizard calibrated?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-15-2013, 9:24 AM
kj kj is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Fernando Valley
Posts: 128
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

The Golden Bears are having their match this Sunday at Angeles. Stop by to check it out and ask questions. Just being able to watch others sling up and get into position should help a lot.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-03-2013, 6:10 AM
ducky_0811 ducky_0811 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 696
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

All the above advice is excellent, I would also caution you that placing your eye s close to the rear sight can give you problems, propper eye relief on a service style AR15 is 1.5-4 inches. As a 6th award Marine Expert rifleman, it also sounds like since your sling is loosening, that you are tensing up your body to try and correct for the lack of sling support, this will push your strings low as your shoulder tenses, and right as you allow the barrel to go right with the lack of sling tension.
Without seeing your shoting position, its hard to give the best advice, but i also coach my younger Marines to roll their supporting hand further underneath the handguard, ensuring the handguard is laying flat along the meaty portion of the palm. this often will help keep the rifle from moving around during rapid fire strings. Good Luck!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 9:40 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2016, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.