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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #201  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:57 PM
mtnhrdgr2 mtnhrdgr2 is offline
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Unfortunately, I guess chainsaw's sarcasm is right. You either have to be right (ie correct) by being republican, or you are completely wrong by being a democrat. There is no middle ground. I guess life is only black or white and no gray area. Instead of having more people fighting for gun rights (by having pro-gun democrats), most posters will seem to be happier if ALL democrats are anti-gun (and lazy, love being taxed to death, continually allow illegals to cross the border and stay, etc, etc)...this way you will be proven 100% correct.

I'm assuming me sending emails to our two senators, Boxer and DiFi (whom I did not vote for in the last election) and the 3 Congressional Reps in the three districts that cover San Jose and telling them how unconstitutional the current gun proposals are does not matter to you. I guess you think it is just fake support for gun rights. I'm assuming that you would rather all pro-democrats just stay silent.


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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
To begin with, who do you call a democrat? For example, would someone who makes campaign contributions to Diane Feinstein and Barack Obama be a democrat in your book? I'm sure you are tired of those people. I'm tired of some of them too. Let's make them go away, starting at the top.

To increase your comfort level, you can work on making your personal environment free of democrats, by ignoring their existence. You can stop going to shooting ranges, because somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the people who see there are democrats (in most parts of California that's true). As an another example, you can push to have all people who espouse democratic viewpoints removed from internet discussion forums that you frequent, such as this. If you complain long and loud enough, the owners and operators of this forum might figure out which side of the bread is buttered, and shut the democrats out, to keep their paying customers. You can also insult democrats so they either go away under their own power, or take the bait, argue, and get banned. In either case, they are still democrats, but you don't have to be bothered by them any longer.

You can also annoy all the pro-gun democrats until they turn into anti-gun democrats. For example because they slowly learn that most gun owners are narrow-minded and obnoxious. Look, I work in politics, I have good access to people in Sacramento, and I know to get things done around here. I am also a democrat. If the existence of pro-gun democrats annoys you so much, I can help you by working against gun rights instead of for them. Given what you write, I think you will enjoy an anti-gun democrat more than a pro-gun democrat, so that should please you.
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  #202  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mtnhrdgr2 View Post
Instead of having more people fighting for gun rights (by having pro-gun democrats), most posters will seem to be happier if ALL democrats are anti-gun.......
For the most part, the words "pro-gun Democrat" have as much practical relevance in reality as "pro-feminist Afghan Muslim". When the ballot hits the desk, Democrats vote for anti-gun politicians.

The proof is in the numbers. Between 2008 and 2012 record numbers of guns and ammo were sold. Yet Obama, a Democrat with a very sketchy anti-2A streak, was re-elected.

As such, what we have are NOT Democrats voting in line with their gun safes, but gun-control supporters who happen to own an AR15 and some other toys. They know better -in some cases-then to come on here and claim open support of politicians who want us and them disarmed, so we get the wishy washy "but Democrats like the 2A TOO" speeches.

Save it for some other putz. I don't care what you say on an internet forum, I care about what you did in the voting booth.
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  #203  
Old 03-23-2013, 2:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ZombieTactics View Post
Voting for Barbara Boxer "because she's pro-choice" (when no one honestly expects the issue to come up) but ignoring the 2A stance (when it predictably would come up) reveals an inability to think clearly.

It is the most basic tenet of logic that "A" is not equal to "non-A".
It wasn't the left that made Carly take a stand on abortion...She could have kept her pie hole shut on that subject, but the religious right forced her to make a stand that most likely cost her the general election..

So if the issue won't come up, why hamstring the Republican with it? You're talking out both sides of your mouth!
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Last edited by Sgt Raven; 03-23-2013 at 2:27 AM..
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  #204  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Damn True View Post
I loathe the practice. But it will NEVER go away. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

Anyone who votes for someone who is not steadfast in their defense of 2A needs to understand that doing so is a tacit approval of the assault upon 2A.
Sure it will. Anyone with a knowledge of history will know that killing kids has been accepted in some societies during some periods and then not accepted and then accepted, etc. Anyone with knowledge of the drop in support for abortion in the USA would also not support your belief.

You're simply wrong when you suggest your "steadfast" comment. Nothing more pathetic than the proud who proclaim "I DID NOT VOTE!"
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  #205  
Old 03-23-2013, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by V View Post
Why do people talk about how they are evaluating the best candidates in a field rather than voting straight letter after the name?

After all once they are elected they are simply going to vote the party whip regardless of what they said/believed when trying to get (re)elected.

It shouldn't be this way, we should be selecting a representative, but that went out the window way way long ago.

Its really a case of it doesn't matter about the name before the letter or who the candidate is or what they believe, as organized right now you are voting a slate/platform.
This is so true. I vote straight Republican. All these guys do is vote - they don't need to have business skills or expertise, and their personal beliefs don't enter into it. They're playing the game. You just need to elect the ones that will vote the way you want them to (as your representative).
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  #206  
Old 03-23-2013, 5:12 PM
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Chainsaw you sound emo. We don't want you to be anti gun but when 95% of state legislature dems vote anti gun every time its an easy conclusiom to say all dems are anti gun. Rod wright and lou correa are a rare breed and I'm worried they are getting rarer. Can you name a newcomer dem besides mayyyybe gatto and perea that are pro gun? Even Issadore Hall has voted the PORAC anti gun line in the past.
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  #207  
Old 03-23-2013, 5:52 PM
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Democrats are destroying our country. Suporting illegal aliens, not regulating welfare, attacking the 2A etc sorry I would keep going but I have to got to work so I can support all the people on welfare and illegals.
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  #208  
Old 03-23-2013, 6:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RugerFan777 View Post
"But I am a pro-gun democrat who is not a single issue voter, I will vote Democrat no matter how anti-gun they are, all they have to do is say they are pro-hunting etc, I want my free money, gay rights, etc"
Sorry my friend, then, you are a anti-gunner! You have chosen, now live with your choices. I don't ever want to hear you complain again about gun bills, you want them, that's the way you voted.

YOU GOT WHAT YOU VOTED FOR!

LIVE WITH IT!
Okay, I haven't read any of this thread past the first post, so pardon me if this has already been said. But doesn't this line of logic also mean that if you vote for a candidate/party that isn't for equal rights for gays then you're anti-equal rights? What if your candidate doesn't support teaching creationism in school, does that mean you're anti-religious? The argument seems a little fluffy.
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  #209  
Old 03-23-2013, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dc2integra View Post
Democrats are destroying our country. Suporting illegal aliens, not regulating welfare, attacking the 2A etc sorry I would keep going but I have to got to work so I can support all the people on welfare and illegals.
Such ignorance is appalling. It also drives pro-2A Democrats from being more active in fighting the anti-2A forces.
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  #210  
Old 03-23-2013, 6:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Excelsior View Post
Such ignorance is appalling. It also drives pro-2A Democrats from being more active in fighting the anti-2A forces.
Agreed, disgusting sentiment. I don't think it keeps us from fighting anti-2A forces, but it does cripple the push to fight on a united front.
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  #211  
Old 03-23-2013, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
Governor Jerry Brown is a democrat. He is pro-gun.
>> He is more like Bill Clinton, counseling against going full retard.

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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
The worst anti-gun bills in California's history were signed by Governors Reagan and Deukmejian, both republicans.
>> Lets not forget it was Reagan's support of 94 AWB that pushed it over the edge.

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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
All of this is stupid and defeats our attempts to further gun rights. But many people in this community enjoy it anyhow. With friends like this, who needs enemies ?
>> QFMFT

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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
I don't know what "emo" means.?
>> Emo = whinny little b1t_h. Strictly speaking, they are a subculture, but whinny little b1t_h is what the word has come to be associated with.
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  #212  
Old 03-23-2013, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bwiese View Post
True. And I agree they're partisan. I am just reflectiing on the problems here in CA.

But what also happens is that the continue-to-win party can freewheel and move further to the left because there's no competition.
I don't believe that to be a failure of the Republican party entirely but a reflection of the people of California for the most part. For Republicans to win, they would have to shift left which defeats the purpose of voting for Republicans. Most people in California want high taxes and big government. They don't want a lot of what the Republicans stand for so why vote for the Republicans?
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  #213  
Old 03-24-2013, 8:24 PM
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I don't believe that to be a failure of the Republican party entirely but a reflection of the people of California for the most part. For Republicans to win, they would have to shift left which defeats the purpose of voting for Republicans. Most people in California want high taxes and big government. They don't want a lot of what the Republicans stand for so why vote for the Republicans?

I don't believe this is true. I believe the majority of Californians, especially those in the center, are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
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  #214  
Old 03-24-2013, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
I don't know what "emo" means.


So lets start at the top. Governor Jerry Brown is a democrat. He is pro-gun.
He may be indifferent but he is not pro-gun.
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  #215  
Old 03-24-2013, 10:19 PM
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Okay, I haven't read any of this thread past the first post, so pardon me if this has already been said. But doesn't this line of logic also mean that if you vote for a candidate/party that isn't for equal rights for gays then you're anti-equal rights? What if your candidate doesn't support teaching creationism in school, does that mean you're anti-religious? The argument seems a little fluffy.
Well, your comparing a constitutional rights with non-admendments.
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  #216  
Old 03-24-2013, 10:28 PM
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I don't believe this is true. I believe the majority of Californians, especially those in the center, are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
Which puts them libertarian if not outright Libertarian. If you take the time to talk to people, you will be surprised how many democrats and republicans are secretly libertarians.
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  #217  
Old 03-25-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
(Regarding Governor Jerry Brown):



Then why did he write a pro-gun brief to the supreme court in the MacDonald case, when he was attorney general? As in: write it himself (not have a staffer write it), and sign it himself?

If you doubt it, look back here on Calguns, it was discussed extensively.
Yes he is the guy who signed AB 144 - Open Carry Ban, AB 809 - Rifle and Shotgun Registration, and SB 819 - Converts Dealer Record of Sales from fee to a tax.

When some of us cried foul we were told that the Gov. signed them for our own good By signing laws that clearly would not stand up in court. This would help us with future legal fights. If this is true than Gov. Cumo should get an A+ NRA endorsement.
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  #218  
Old 03-25-2013, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
(Regarding Governor Jerry Brown):



Then why did he write a pro-gun brief to the supreme court in the MacDonald case, when he was attorney general? As in: write it himself (not have a staffer write it), and sign it himself?

If you doubt it, look back here on Calguns, it was discussed extensively.
You should actually read his brief. It is NOT pro-gun. He asked for clarification from the court because California had passed "common sense" gun control in the past such as the handgun roster.

And as Vonderplatz mentioned how can any of his signatures on the bills he signed be construed as even remotely pro-gun?
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  #219  
Old 03-25-2013, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ferretwithacheeseknife View Post
I don't believe this is true. I believe the majority of Californians, especially those in the center, are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.


The polls, the California State Budget, the NRA, the Democratic Party, and 20 years of Electoral History would disagree with your belief.

The average Californian wants high taxes, a gigantic , socially conscious government, and no firearms. You might meet one or two who think a WWII heirloom in a display case is kosher.

Please-and I say this with NO sarcasm at all- prove me wrong on this issue.
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  #220  
Old 03-25-2013, 4:16 PM
ferretwithacheeseknife ferretwithacheeseknife is offline
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post


The polls, the California State Budget, the NRA, the Democratic Party, and 20 years of Electoral History would disagree with your belief.

The average Californian wants high taxes, a gigantic , socially conscious government, and no firearms. You might meet one or two who think a WWII heirloom in a display case is kosher.

Please-and I say this with NO sarcasm at all- prove me wrong on this issue.
With pleasure, mon ami. I believe that the average Californian wants good schools, a social safety net, help for those who need it, good public facilities including roads and libraries and is willing to pay a reasonable amount for those services. They also want their government to be run efficiently and without overspending the budget. What they cannot stomach is the religious values of the right forced on them.

You want an example. In 2010 Barbara Boxer was in serious trouble before the election. Tom Campbell, a moderate Republican, who was fiscally conservative and socially liberal was outpolling her badly. But Campbell was not socially conservative enough for the Republican Party in California so they nominated Carly Fiorina who was a right to lifer who opposed gay marriage but who had a fiscally spotty record. Who won?
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  #221  
Old 03-25-2013, 4:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
I don't believe that to be a failure of the Republican party entirely but a reflection of the people of California for the most part. For Republicans to win, they would have to shift left which defeats the purpose of voting for Republicans. Most people in California want high taxes and big government. They don't want a lot of what the Republicans stand for so why vote for the Republicans?
"Most people in California want high taxes"? Really? What world do you live in?
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  #222  
Old 03-25-2013, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post


- prove me wrong on this issue.
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Originally Posted by ferretwithacheeseknife View Post
With pleasure, mon ami. I believe .......
Nuff said
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  #223  
Old 03-25-2013, 5:14 PM
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"Most people in California want high taxes"? Really? What world do you live in?
Well, CA did last year pass a sales tax increase. And a tax increase on certain high earners. Personally I think getting CA voters to pass a sales tax increase was a stroke of genius on the part of Gov Brown. Were it proposed by a Republican the cries of "regressive tax" would have been unending. The sales tax passing was especially interesting given that it went up against a progerssive tax increase - that one lost of course.

But I suppose "want" (as is being used here) is a flexible term. I don't think CA want higher taxes any more than most, but they are rather accepting of them. Didn't we build a $500 million school that now sits empty?

They have a "point of view" but list some government reports in doing so.


http://www.caltax.org/waste/waste_current.html
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  #224  
Old 03-25-2013, 5:23 PM
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"Most people in California want high taxes"? Really? What world do you live in?
Didn't the majority of CA voters ok an increase in sales tax? Who would vote to tax themselves? .... The same idiots who voted to increase the sales tax.. I guess we live in California. Where are you from?
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  #225  
Old 03-25-2013, 5:41 PM
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Didn't the majority of CA voters ok an increase in sales tax? Who would vote to tax themselves?
People who are not radical individualists.
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  #226  
Old 03-25-2013, 5:48 PM
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With pleasure, mon ami. I believe that the average Californian wants good schools, a social safety net, help for those who need it, good public facilities including roads and libraries and is willing to pay a reasonable amount for those services. They also want their government to be run efficiently and without overspending the budget. What they cannot stomach is the religious values of the right forced on them.

You want an example. In 2010 Barbara Boxer was in serious trouble before the election. Tom Campbell, a moderate Republican, who was fiscally conservative and socially liberal was outpolling her badly. But Campbell was not socially conservative enough for the Republican Party in California so they nominated Carly Fiorina who was a right to lifer who opposed gay marriage but who had a fiscally spotty record. Who won?
QFT.
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  #227  
Old 03-25-2013, 6:17 PM
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People who are not radical individualists.
You mean brain dead, fricken idiots?
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  #228  
Old 03-25-2013, 6:25 PM
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Didn't the majority of CA voters ok an increase in sales tax? Who would vote to tax themselves? .... The same idiots who voted to increase the sales tax.. I guess we live in California. Where are you from?
Wow. Talk about a simplistic view of the world.
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  #229  
Old 03-25-2013, 7:59 PM
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By your statements if you own a gun you should vote Rep. If only politics were that black and white.
If you own a gun you should vote for the most libertarian candidate. (Like that will ever happen).

In truth, it seems to me that most gun owners are <fill in one of the major parties> first and pro gun rights second.
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  #230  
Old 03-25-2013, 8:54 PM
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What they cannot stomach is the religious values of the right forced on them.
I see this myth time and again, that voting Republican is tantamount to voting for an American theocracy.

Its bullsh--t.

I don't align with any religious organization or faith. Yet, strangely enough, the Republican party in this blood-red state hasn't sent police to my door because I don't attend a church.

The calculus is simple. In a "socially regressive" Red State, one is FREE-there's a word-to live as one sees fit , without government interference. The neighbors might not like you, but the cops can't throw you in jail because your lifestyle doesn't square with the Ward Cleaver image.

In a "socially progressive" Blue State, the slightest deviation from the Liberal Plan-o-gram triggers a phone call to police and an expensive visit to court-or the morgue. If the neighbors don't like your guns, they're one phone call away from having you declared an "Enemy of the State".
I know which state I'd rather live in . Do you?
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  #231  
Old 03-25-2013, 8:58 PM
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I guess we live in California. Where are you from?
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  #232  
Old 03-25-2013, 10:19 PM
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I don't believe this is true. I believe the majority of Californians, especially those in the center, are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
The majority are tax and spend and social liberals. How else would we end up in the fiscal mess we are in?
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:33 PM
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I don't believe this is true. I believe the majority of Californians, especially those in the center, are fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
Prop h8 passed with fair margin.

Just saying'
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:35 PM
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Irony: Violent crime is proven to increase when self protection rights are diminished - Yet unarmed liberals want to further the failed and delusional "gun control" agenda by disarming law abiding tax paying citizens and veterans.

Hypocrisy: Liberals think its a great idea to have all law abiding tax paying citizens and veterans register thier firearms - But consider it racist when voter registration is required.

Delusional: Every active shooter situation ends when opposing firearms arrive - Either by suicide, arrest, or shoot out - Yet instead of seeking proven ways to end these situations more quickly - Liberals somehow think restricting the types of firearms and limiting the number of rounds in the magazines owned by law abiding tax paying citizens and veterans will magically solve the problem.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:38 PM
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The majority are tax and spend and social liberals. How else would we end up in the fiscal mess we are in?
Actually the majority of liberal voters in CA are on state welfare or in the low income bracket.

And never underestimate the power of the bought-and-paid for union owned liberal political hacks.

They got a pretty good return on the $30 million they dumped into Brown's campaign -

Just how much is high speed rail worth to the unions....?
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:41 PM
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Wow. Talk about a simplistic view of the world.
The majority of liberal voters didn't vote to raise their taxes.

They voted to raise my taxes -

And anyone else's taxes who busts their arse to be more successful than they are.

It's another example of the pathetic liberal mindset -

"Gimme gimme gimme gimme - Even though I didn't earn it...."
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:04 PM
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I see this myth time and again, that voting Republican is tantamount to voting for an American theocracy.

Its bullsh--t.

I don't align with any religious organization or faith. Yet, strangely enough, the Republican party in this blood-red state hasn't sent police to my door because I don't attend a church.

The calculus is simple. In a "socially regressive" Red State, one is FREE-there's a word-to live as one sees fit , without government interference. The neighbors might not like you, but the cops can't throw you in jail because your lifestyle doesn't square with the Ward Cleaver image.

In a "socially progressive" Blue State, the slightest deviation from the Liberal Plan-o-gram triggers a phone call to police and an expensive visit to court-or the morgue. If the neighbors don't like your guns, they're one phone call away from having you declared an "Enemy of the State".
I know which state I'd rather live in . Do you?
I am not saying the left cannot be intolerant. It can. But before you ride that horse of yours too far I would look up: Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003).
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Old 03-26-2013, 8:30 AM
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7 pages in and all this thread has managed to accomplish is to antagonize calgunners against each other.

Nice demonstration of brotherhood.
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Old 03-26-2013, 8:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ferretwithacheeseknife View Post
I am not saying the left cannot be intolerant. It can. But before you ride that horse of yours too far I would look up: Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003).

For an example of the left's idea of "equality under the law", see McDonald v. Chicago, 2010.
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The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be.
The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be.
-Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE

The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream.
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  #240  
Old 03-26-2013, 8:39 AM
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7 pages in and all this thread has managed to accomplish is to antagonize calgunners against each other.

Nice demonstration of brotherhood.
It's like this all over the country. I'm surprised the 2nd Amendment has lasted this long...
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