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  #1  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:04 AM
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Phil3 Phil3 is offline
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Default Do You Agree With What Sierra Told Me?

Still concerned about the huge variations on reloading data for Hodgdon H322 powder in a 223 Remington AR-15, I called Sierra. I am using their 52 & 52 grain bullets. Sierra's range is 23.1 to 25.2 grains. Berger is 22.0 - 24.5. Lee and Hodgdon, the maker of the powder are 21.5 to 23.5. There is only a .4 grain gap between Lee and Hodgdon's MAX and Sierra's START .

Sierra told me I should defer to the bullet maker (them). I always heard I should generally defer to the powder maker. In addition, they said some other data sources use a test barrel, not an actual gun. The Sierra data does use a Colt AR-15 with 24" barrel. Asked about the risk of starting under Sierra's recommended load, they told me the action may not cycle properly, which I know.

I am not sure where to start with this powder. My AR-15 is chambered in 223 Remington (not 5.56), is a 1:9 twist, 22" barrel (rifle length). Any thoughts are welcome.

Phil
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  #2  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:24 AM
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ChrisGarrett ChrisGarrett is offline
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The joke is is that Sierra's manual is written by their lawyers, as it's 'generally' pretty conservative.

If it were me, I would do up a few starting at 23grs and see what you see.

Sierra wrote that section for AR-15s, so I'm going to go with their numbers.

Chris
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:45 AM
Divernhunter Divernhunter is offline
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I think you are worring about nothing.
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  #4  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:03 PM
KeithET KeithET is offline
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Probably nothing to worry about using the starting Sierra charge. If you are still worried then go with the starting load from Hodgdons 21.5 or 22 grains. The problem is Hodgdons does not use the Sierra bullet you are looking at. With a lower then listed starting load I would agree with Sierra that it may not function your gun. If this is true you will have to work up a load that does function your gun. The key is to take your time and only load a few (~ 5 to 10) at your starting charge to check.

KeithET
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:26 PM
CS Sports CS Sports is offline
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The Berger data is for a different bullet than the Sierra. It makes a difference. Hodgdon data shows H335 with a 53gr Sierra bullet as 24.0 to 26.0gr, very similar to Sierra's data for the same bullet.

Yes, I agree with Sierra 100%, go with the bullet maker's data as you can be assured that the same components were used.

You can't just start switching bullet makes and expect load data to be the same. There can be HUGE differences in pressure in the same weight bullet of differing construction.

From Hodgdon's site:
53 GR. SIE HP Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.200" 24.0 3060 44,100 CUP 26.0 3300 52,000 CUP
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:41 PM
Whiterabbit Whiterabbit is offline
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I agree 100% with DivernHunter.

However, I defer to bullet mfg (for me, that's usually Barnes). They know best for their bullet.

Based on the CONTENT of your concern, it sounds like you are worried about safety. I'm usually worried about bullet performance. Being able to safely fire a bullet at magnum velocities for example doesn't do me a lick of good if the bullet comes apart out of the muzzle. The MFG knows best abotu this, more than the powder mfg.

The powder mfg needs to do one thing, and one thing only IMO. Keep making the same powders on their list as absolutely consistent as possible.
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Old 03-22-2013, 1:01 PM
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I have found Sierra to be hot , but, this is always a problem with more than one source of data. Pet Loads sez 23gr. H-322 with 52 gr. Sierra moderate & accurate.
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Old 03-22-2013, 2:02 PM
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shoot factory ammo, problem solved
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  #9  
Old 03-22-2013, 2:24 PM
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Use Sierra's starting data and go from there. They used an AR-15 in their tests. I've used Sierra's data in my AR-15's for years and haven't run into data problems. I have no reservations starting at the 23.1 grain load for their 52 gr. bullet. Your .223 Remington chambering shouldn't be a problem.

Just don't jam the bullet into the lands. You probably can't anyway when seating to magazine lengths.
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Old 03-23-2013, 2:44 PM
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Sierra is correct.
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  #11  
Old 03-24-2013, 9:00 AM
stand125 stand125 is offline
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If all the different load book data for the same bullet type and weight caused safety issues then there would be major lawsuits and of course Congress would get involved My point is that you may have performance issues between all the books but I do not see how you could possibly blow up or damage a gun/shooter if you stay within the starting load published data, regardless of what load data you used.

I like the Hornandy manual because it has load data for rifles like the Garand that has different recomended loads from other 30-06 rifles.
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  #12  
Old 03-24-2013, 9:56 AM
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You should defer to the bullet maker most recent data. Bullets are unique. They have different profiles with different core hardness, jacket thickness, bearing surface area, etc. Some are more blunt. Some are more slender. Some take up more room in the case at a given OAL than others. All of this affects pressure. This is especially important these days when you have some .224" 50gr bullets that are longer than some 70gr bullets.
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  #13  
Old 03-24-2013, 11:15 AM
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I agree with the comments above. Bullet and powder manufacturers who publish load charts do so to avoid liability. Their published data is safe.

If I had to make a choice between a bullet or powder manufacturer's published chart, I would select the bullet maker's chart. The reason is bullets from different manufacturers will vary even if they have the same diameter and weight.

If you desire to vary from the charts, I would recommend that you do a lot of reading about recognizing signs of excessive pressure on fired cases, and the effects of high pressure loads on the various types of firearm actions, and on how to work up a load to a high pressure load. The internet has lots of sites with a lot of data available.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:55 PM
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I agree with Sierra being who to listen to here. The bullet in question is what is most important, not the powder Mfgr's data for bullet weight or even bullet type.

Always start with the bullet makers data unless you have tested to different levels yourself before.
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:03 PM
Bill Steele Bill Steele is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffLinder View Post
I agree with Sierra being who to listen to here. The bullet in question is what is most important, not the powder Mfgr's data for bullet weight or even bullet type.

Always start with the bullet makers data unless you have tested to different levels yourself before.
I agree

I will say that occasionally something in the bullet books goes awry as well. An example is Hornaday's #8, specifically the 308 Win loads. The only thing I can figure is it was a REALLY hot day when the Hornaday ballistician did the 308 Win tests (or their powder scale needed calibration). Almost universally, the 308 Win data is ultra conservative. You can burn up a lot of bullets powder and primers climbing the ladder if you use their start loads in this chapter. At first I assumed it was just lawyered up load data, until I got to their 10mm handgun loads, nice stout loads (not original Norma 10mm hot, but better than many powder manufacturer's load data max), so I think it had to be a bad day in the test cell for 308.
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:09 PM
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Another thing you should consider is the platform. Whan looking for loads to shoot in your AR, go to M4carbine.net. If you wanna load for a sniper rifle, go to snipershide.com. That way you can find what works in your platform, and maybe in your brand of rifle even.
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2013, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
Another thing you should consider is the platform. Whan looking for loads to shoot in your AR, go to M4carbine.net. If you wanna load for a sniper rifle, go to snipershide.com. That way you can find what works in your platform, and maybe in your brand of rifle even.
Sierra has an entire section under 223 Remington, that used a 20" AR-15.

Their data is appropriate for the platform, but they're tetering on the conservative side, is all.

Chris
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