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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #681  
Old 03-21-2013, 4:33 PM
lakersandguns lakersandguns is offline
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Ok I might not have done it right. I went over to a place in ventura that does live scans. All the person told me that DOJ will receive electronically and just gave me a copy of the form i filled out. Was I supposed to get something else back. Like a copy of my record. Then I also went and faxed a copy of the court papers to the fax number in this thread. Didnt really put down attn: so and so.
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  #682  
Old 03-21-2013, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by M0RTAL_K0MBAT View Post
Wow that was fast Props on actually getting Ur FA. So I am curious when U faxed Ur paper work to that FAX # did U know who U where sending to like the person handling Ur case or did they just tell u to send it there and someone will put 2 and 2 together?
I missed this post, my apologies. I called into the review unit first, and spoke to someone. He provided his name and fax number. I then drafted a short fax cover letter with a summary review and included my contact information. I also included the name and telephone number of the person who was handling my review to save them the time looking for the information.

I even picked up my evil black rifle today.
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  #683  
Old 03-21-2013, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lakersandguns View Post
Ok I might not have done it right. I went over to a place in ventura that does live scans. All the person told me that DOJ will receive electronically and just gave me a copy of the form i filled out. Was I supposed to get something else back. Like a copy of my record. Then I also went and faxed a copy of the court papers to the fax number in this thread. Didnt really put down attn: so and so.
It will take some time before you receive your hard copy print out of your DOJ transcript. The whole purpose of live scan is so the prints can be sent electronically.
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  #684  
Old 03-21-2013, 6:58 PM
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Hello everyone, so I was prohibited from getting my long rifle this past Sunday and finally got my letter in the mail today stating why. The reason they gave is that I am an illegal alien but have a workers permit/authorization as well as a CA hunting license. As I understand it, this should be sufficient correct? Would I just fax over my documentation over to them to the above fax number as well as a bank statement for the last couple of months?

I would do the live scan but I don't believe that would help, unless someone could correct me?
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  #685  
Old 03-21-2013, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by crespoh69 View Post
Hello everyone, so I was prohibited from getting my long rifle this past Sunday and finally got my letter in the mail today stating why. The reason they gave is that I am an illegal alien but have a workers permit/authorization as well as a CA hunting license. As I understand it, this should be sufficient correct? Would I just fax over my documentation over to them to the above fax number as well as a bank statement for the last couple of months?

I would do the live scan but I don't believe that would help, unless someone could correct me?

So how did you get your Savage 64 FXP from Big 5 that you wanted to return?
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  #686  
Old 03-21-2013, 7:14 PM
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So how did you get your Savage 64 FXP from Big 5 that you wanted to return?
Exactly what I'd like to know lol I did return it unfortunately and now am wishing I hadn't
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  #687  
Old 03-22-2013, 6:13 AM
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I missed this post, my apologies. I called into the review unit first, and spoke to someone. He provided his name and fax number. I then drafted a short fax cover letter with a summary review and included my contact information. I also included the name and telephone number of the person who was handling my review to save them the time looking for the information.

I even picked up my evil black rifle today.
Review Unit? Is this the same # jmill posted?
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  #688  
Old 03-22-2013, 6:23 AM
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Originally Posted by crespoh69 View Post
Hello everyone, so I was prohibited from getting my long rifle this past Sunday and finally got my letter in the mail today stating why. The reason they gave is that I am an illegal alien but have a workers permit/authorization as well as a CA hunting license. As I understand it, this should be sufficient correct? Would I just fax over my documentation over to them to the above fax number as well as a bank statement for the last couple of months?

I would do the live scan but I don't believe that would help, unless someone could correct me?
Do you have green card or some kind of status?Or you just alien with work permit?
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  #689  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:36 AM
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Originally Posted by anthem View Post
I missed this post, my apologies. I called into the review unit first, and spoke to someone. He provided his name and fax number. I then drafted a short fax cover letter with a summary review and included my contact information. I also included the name and telephone number of the person who was handling my review to save them the time looking for the information.

I even picked up my evil black rifle today.
Hey can you please provide us with the review unit phone number?
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  #690  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:14 AM
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Do you have green card or some kind of status?Or you just alien with work permit?
No green card until hopefully a couple of months (petitioned by my wife). I do have a passport though showing legal entry from a few years back. Only thing I did different than last time that I can think of is that I TOLD the big 5 clerk that I had a hunting permit. Aside from that I just filled out the form as I did this time around too.
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  #691  
Old 03-22-2013, 8:32 AM
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Well as far as i remember if you're not a GC holder you can't buy a gun? You need to be a resident.
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  #692  
Old 03-22-2013, 9:42 AM
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Been a resident for the last ~25 years or so.
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  #693  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:10 AM
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Hey can you please provide us with the review unit phone number?
I actually got the number from you...lol.


916-227-1375

I think you should have had your live scan completed and your copy in hand, before you call.
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  #694  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by crespoh69 View Post
Hello everyone, so I was prohibited from getting my long rifle this past Sunday and finally got my letter in the mail today stating why. The reason they gave is that I am an illegal alien but have a workers permit/authorization as well as a CA hunting license. As I understand it, this should be sufficient correct? Would I just fax over my documentation over to them to the above fax number as well as a bank statement for the last couple of months?

I would do the live scan but I don't believe that would help, unless someone could correct me?
If you're here illegally you're a criminal and cannot own firearms.

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  #695  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by crespoh69 View Post
Been a resident for the last ~25 years or so.
I'm talking about resident status,if you're alien-you can't buy a gun.In your case you just need to wait for green card.
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  #696  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by anthem View Post
I actually got the number from you...lol.


916-227-1375

I think you should have had your live scan completed and your copy in hand, before you call.
Yeah now all of a sudden they don't want to help anyone anymore. They just send you to the answering machine number. I need to get my lives can cause this is pissing me off lol.
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  #697  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:41 AM
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Yeah now all of a sudden they don't want to help anyone anymore. They just send you to the answering machine number. I need to get my lives can cause this is pissing me off lol.
I couldn't agree more
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  #698  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:26 PM
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WOOHOO! Was able to get my lower out of jail today, no delay. But since I have a clean record I didn't expect a delay either.

The pleasant surprise, however, is that my vending machine mauling buddy that I was worried about didn't get a delay either! Now for a 2-man weekend build party
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  #699  
Old 03-22-2013, 12:36 PM
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Use the form linked above and get a live scan. About a week later you'll receive results and a form to dispute them. Use that form and send notarized copies of the paperwork you have in with it via certified mail. In fact you should have the notary mail it.
I have an idea.

Why not create a "CALGUNS FLOW CHART FOR DOJ DENIALS" . . . if you are denied, this is what you should do, in what order, depending on your situation.

Obviously wait for the "right people" to say it's a good idea, because I can see strategic reasons either way. On the one hand, streamlining the process makes life easier on CA-DOJ and the law abiding firearms owner. "Get this form, fax to Joe at 916-XXX-XXXX, smile."

On the other hand, if DOJ is being deliberately obfuscatory and negligent, the process may need to be high drag, low speed instead . . . "call weekly the following numbers, then your Legislator, then send in a notarized copy of XXX with a copy to . . ."

Maybe Calguns needs a new motto, instead of "suing every mofo in the room," we can either "help government out, or help government OUT."

I have attached a poor draft that should be used by no one ever, based on the "What you should do If Your DROS Application is Delayed, Rejected, or Denied" from the facing page of the DOJ Web site. I do NOT recommend following or relying on this chart -- it is for example purposes ONLY, as a sample of a real product Calguns may or may not wish to create.

Boosting the signal from Brandon:

Quote:
IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED A DROS DENIAL THAT YOU BELIEVE IS IMPROPER (in other words, if you believe you have a right to own a gun and are not a prohibited person yet received a DROS denial anyway):

Please report any and all issues regarding DROS denials at:

http://calgunsfoundation.org/doj and please email our attorney, Jason Davis, ASAP (jason@calgunlawyers.com) with your DROS delay status and contact info.
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File Type: jpg non_CG_buyagunflowchart.jpg (31.4 KB, 30 views)
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  #700  
Old 03-22-2013, 2:11 PM
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So out of boredom I called 916-227-1375 and someone actually answered and although the lady that answered sounded like she would rather be doing something else she transferred me to the firearms division and stayed on the line until the nice voice mail message came on basically repeating the info on their web page, lol. 81 days and counting
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  #701  
Old 03-22-2013, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyJ View Post
So out of boredom I called 916-227-1375 and someone actually answered and although the lady that answered sounded like she would rather be doing something else she transferred me to the firearms division and stayed on the line until the nice voice mail message came on basically repeating the info on their web page, lol. 81 days and counting
Ya I did the same thing today. She just said she couldn't help me I asked what could I do and she said probably nothing! Can't believe our taxes go to this
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  #702  
Old 03-22-2013, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by anthem View Post
I am almost at 3 months in my delay. But I did receive a call from DOJ telling me why. I was arrested in 1984. The stated reason on the DOJ criminal background transcript stated it was for attempted theft, but there is no disposition of the case listed on the DOJ transcript. As the charge is considered a wobbler, it needs a disposition for DOJ to clear it.

It was a stupid thing and I was never charged. I was a dumb kid putting myself in harms way. Funny story at 18 but embarrassing at 47.

The weird thing is that after having gone to the court and seeing the clerk, I am not in the court system. My name or arrest doesn't even come up. No case, no conviction, no name, no history. The clerk did a search and I have a "No Case Filed" court certificate that my DOJ contact said was not good enough.

I'm going to send off the search document to the record review department and see if that clears it up. I'm not sure if it will, and barring that, I'm uncertain what my options are as I can't get a record expunged or cleared if a record doesn't exist.

Has anyone come across a scenario where you show up with a record on the DOJ background, but there is no record in the court's system? I think the court purged it years ago, but yet it remains on the DOJ record.

I'm going to try and call the record review division as the other person here did and see if that gives any results.

I feel like I am trying to prove an imaginary negative.
This is my problem. Just not in delay. I was contacted on jan 31, 2 months after renewing my CCW and 30 days after picking up a saiga from turners. They wanted to know why I was approved for my permit.

I was arrested in 1996 and released. No charges. No disposition. District
attorney knows nothing. Court knows nothing. Sheriff has nothing. Only record is on my live scan that says no disposition. No paperwork or record exists at all on this just a note on my live scan.

If seal and destroy dosen't work, which is what doj wants from me. And disputing the "inaccuracy or incompleteness" of live scan need documentation proving the incompleteness (which we have established dosen't exist) WTF can I do.

No need to say " email Calgunlaw.com or what ever I did. Told me only what I already knew. What I stated above. Called a different FA attorney and got the same story. I'm f$&ked. I feel the same way as you anthem. I can not prove an imaginary negative.
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  #703  
Old 03-22-2013, 6:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tallic68 View Post
This is my problem. Just not in delay. I was contacted on jan 31, 2 months after renewing my CCW and 30 days after picking up a saiga from turners. They wanted to know why I was approved for my permit.

I was arrested in 1996 and released. No charges. No disposition. District
attorney knows nothing. Court knows nothing. Sheriff has nothing. Only record is on my live scan that says no disposition. No paperwork or record exists at all on this just a note on my live scan.

If seal and destroy dosen't work, which is what doj wants from me. And disputing the "inaccuracy or incompleteness" of live scan need documentation proving the incompleteness (which we have established dosen't exist) WTF can I do.

No need to say " email Calgunlaw.com or what ever I did. Told me only what I already knew. What I stated above. Called a different FA attorney and got the same story. I'm f$&ked. I feel the same way as you anthem. I can not prove an imaginary negative.
It is frustrating. As I mentioned in some of my follow up posts, I was able to clear it up by having the Clerk at the Superior Court run a search for my name. The search yielded no findings. I then paid the Clerk $25.00 for a certified search result that stated "No case filed". This was sufficient to show the disposition.

Give it a shot.
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  #704  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JDay View Post
If you're here illegally you're a criminal and cannot own firearms.

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Would a passport showing I came in legally suffice then?
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  #705  
Old 03-22-2013, 7:55 PM
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Originally Posted by crespoh69 View Post
Would a passport showing I came in legally suffice then?
Not sure, you might need to prove your resident alien status.
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Old 03-22-2013, 7:57 PM
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I see. I'll see what they tell me, faxed over some paperwork earlier today and was able to get a hold of someone. Also asked them to find out why it was it was approved previously.
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  #707  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:06 PM
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I see. I'll see what they tell me, faxed over some paperwork earlier today and was able to get a hold of someone. Also asked them to find out why it was it was approved previously.
The law did change. I think I heard it was around 2010 or so. I had no issue in the past purchasing firearms. This time I got hung up on a delay as a result of the change. This is due to some of the tighter restrictions that CA imposed.

You are probably a casualty of the same thing.
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  #708  
Old 03-23-2013, 7:15 AM
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Would a passport showing I came in legally suffice then?
American passport
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Old 03-23-2013, 4:32 PM
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Took delivery today of a XD.....no delay.

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  #710  
Old 03-23-2013, 4:46 PM
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Originally Posted by anthem View Post
The law did change. I think I heard it was around 2010 or so. I had no issue in the past purchasing firearms. This time I got hung up on a delay as a result of the change. This is due to some of the tighter restrictions that CA imposed.

You are probably a casualty of the same thing.
What law changed? Please cite.
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  #711  
Old 03-23-2013, 6:24 PM
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What law changed? Please cite.
Can't tell you. It may not have been legislatively driven, but CA DOJ will no longer approve a DROS if you have an arrest that the DA could have charged as a felony or misdemeanor, otherwise known as a wobbler, and that arrest does not have a disposition listed on record.

It could be a policy issue as opposed to a legislative change, as I am uncertain of the driver or when the change occurred.
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  #712  
Old 03-23-2013, 8:55 PM
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Can't tell you. It may not have been legislatively driven, but CA DOJ will no longer approve a DROS if you have an arrest that the DA could have charged as a felony or misdemeanor, otherwise known as a wobbler, and that arrest does not have a disposition listed on record.

It could be a policy issue as opposed to a legislative change, as I am uncertain of the driver or when the change occurred.
"something" has changed if it was a law being passed the doj website list of disqualifications would reflect it. also do you have any reason to believe costs & effort you submitted to to prove your innocence sped up the process any? because you seem to be stating so with confidence. i was led to believe delayed status gets reviewed every 90 days. coincidence maybe?
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Old 03-23-2013, 9:26 PM
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Greetings to all. I have been following Calguns for a couple of months but have not registered until now. I noticed the recent replies commenting on delays for misdemeanor or felonies without a disposition. I have 2 handguns on delay status spanning a two and a half month period. I have a wobbler conviction that was reduced and then expunged. My first and last conviction of which occurred over 11 years ago in my teens. As a result of the delay on the first handgun I opted to acquire a live scan (RAP Sheet) for my review. My case originally included 3 chargers but two of them were dropped. The problem that I see is that the arresting police department charges are on my rap sheet including the counties sheriff department charges for a total of 6 charges that are virtually identical. Non of them have dispositions with exception of the misdemeanor conviction and expungement. I do not understand why if some of these convictions are not disqualifying do we need to have dispositions on file. Does this mean some offenders may be out there with missing convictions on their record? It does not make sense that a disposition is needed on non prohibited offenses.
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Old 03-24-2013, 9:23 AM
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Originally Posted by anthem View Post
Can't tell you. It may not have been legislatively driven, but CA DOJ will no longer approve a DROS if you have an arrest that the DA could have charged as a felony or misdemeanor, otherwise known as a wobbler, and that arrest does not have a disposition listed on record.

It could be a policy issue as opposed to a legislative change, as I am uncertain of the driver or when the change occurred.
DOJ made a new policy, no law passed. This is known as backdoor legislation and is not legal.

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Old 03-24-2013, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by stonefly-2 View Post
"something" has changed if it was a law being passed the doj website list of disqualifications would reflect it. also do you have any reason to believe costs & effort you submitted to to prove your innocence sped up the process any? because you seem to be stating so with confidence. i was led to believe delayed status gets reviewed every 90 days. coincidence maybe?


I'm not sure what you are implying in your comments, but where have I suggested that I sped up the process? Once I was able to understand what the cause of the delay was I was able to get it cleared up. That is all I was saying as well as sharing how I did it in an effort to help others.

I was always subjected to the DOJ timeline and their schedule.

And yes something has changed, as I have purchased 3 other guns in the past without an issue. And if you read through these posts you will see others have also made purchases in the past without problem, only to now have an issue with something on their record.
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Old 03-24-2013, 1:55 PM
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I'm not sure what you are implying in your comments, but where have I suggested that I sped up the process? Once I was able to understand what the cause of the delay was I was able to get it cleared up. That is all I was saying as well as sharing how I did it in an effort to help others.

I was always subjected to the DOJ timeline and their schedule.

And yes something has changed, as I have purchased 3 other guns in the past without an issue. And if you read through these posts you will see others have also made purchases in the past without problem, only to now have an issue with something on their record.
i'm not implying anything. i'm asking you a straight question. did your "clearing up" if you prefer that over "sped up" for a fact hasten the release of your firearm? in other words , did you have communication with doj them saying do this, yeah we got it, do that , ok your'e good to go? did you for a fact break loose the process in any way? did you get the impression from them as i have that my firearm would not be released without jumping through these hoops? please share what you know to "help others". yes i have read through all these post and written several of them and share in common having dros'd other guns and having an arrest with no charges filed. if your intent is to help i appreciate that but do you actually have something to offer?
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  #717  
Old 03-24-2013, 2:38 PM
stonefly-2 stonefly-2 is offline
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by the way for me to submit to what the doj has suggested would require flying from sacramento to san diego, renting a car, drive to the imperial valley,(during the week of course) petition the sheriffs dept. for record of any case on me which the doj has allowed wouldn't even be given to me if they had it which they don't because the records from 1984 have certainly been purged. then petition the court house for same info. the court house has told me by phone they no longer have those records and have without doubt sent the disposition at the time to the doj. i could also they say "just hire a lawyer" down there in my behalf.
as a small businessman this is not going to happen for a $200 hmr 17 rimfire. rather i will contribute towards any suits filed and do my level best to produce the $200 worth of public criticism that the doj as a public service has signed on for. if my dog gets shot i'll report here if able.

Last edited by stonefly-2; 03-25-2013 at 2:26 PM..
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Old 03-24-2013, 2:48 PM
stonefly-2 stonefly-2 is offline
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[QUOTE Does this mean some offenders may be out there with missing convictions on their record? It does not make sense that a disposition is needed on non prohibited offenses.[/QUOTE]



it means that we are asked to believe that the doj has squarely in there sights the rarest of incredibly stupid felons who would lie on the dros paperwork, receive a delay notice and still be waiting around 3 months later knowing he was going straight back to prison.

Last edited by stonefly-2; 03-24-2013 at 2:57 PM.. Reason: correct wording
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:12 AM
dshissam dshissam is offline
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Hello all,

I am new to Calguns and just wanted to say thanks for all of the info on this thread. I have been watching this thread and just joined Calguns. My DROS has been delayed for 17days so far and I just emailed Jason. I have a clean record and I was just delayed on a purchase of a Colt 1911 Government Model. I have called all of the DOJ numbers given in this thread and I spoke to a gentle men who said I was simply delayed and my background check wasnt even performed yet. This was on day 14??? I know people have been waiting way longer than I have, but I just wanted to post to keep everyone in the loop as to what happens with my transfer. Thanks again!
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Old 03-25-2013, 1:26 PM
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JDay JDay is offline
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Stonefly-2, you were told not to give out information that you posted in here.

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