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  #1  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:36 PM
ShadowSociety ShadowSociety is offline
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Default Need a hand with Proof of Residency

So all I was able to find was a W-2 form and a bank statement, and after some searching found out that these are not acceptable forms of proof. I don't have my name tied to any type of vehicle registration or utility bills. I am not able to draw up a rental agreement with my parents (who own the residence) because they do not support my decision to get a handgun (not because they hate guns or don't trust me with one, it is more a financial situation).

So I was wondering what my options were, is there some sort of form I can get a print out of with proof at a DMV?

I am also a student/employee of a California State University if it makes any difference. And AAA member, I mention this because I have read stories of other Calguns members getting proof through them.
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  #2  
Old 02-24-2013, 7:45 AM
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=327217

You need a government issued document with an expiration date. I would suggest getting a hunting or fishing license.

Your pay stub from the state would work for a long gun, but you need an expiration date for the state proof of residency requirement.

Your parents still manage your finances at the age of 21 or older? Or do you owe them money and they don't like going to the back of the line?
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2013, 9:59 AM
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It's more a situation where they suggest I put money into savings account for rainy days or my last year of college.(A very firm suggestion, even though I already have some funds allocated.)

I read somewhere that it is also possible to use a driving record print out from the DMV, but I'm not entirely sure that the print out comes with an address.

The hunting license seems like a good idea, but I'll try and find out about that DMV printout first as that seems to be the least amount of effort and cost.


Edit: Double checked the form I received from the FFL dealer, Hunting and Fishing licences do not count as proof.

Last edited by ShadowSociety; 02-24-2013 at 10:39 AM..
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2013, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=327217

You need a government issued document with an expiration date. I would suggest getting a hunting or fishing license.

Your pay stub from the state would work for a long gun, but you need an expiration date for the state proof of residency requirement.

Your parents still manage your finances at the age of 21 or older? Or do you owe them money and they don't like going to the back of the line?
Where did you find the "expiration" requirement?

The DOJ FAQ says:

Government-issued (city, county, special district, state or federal) documentation that has all of the following - - This does not include a drivers license or DMV-issued ID card:
The name of the transferee as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID.
The name of the transferee as the transferee declares on the DROS form.
The residential address of the transferee as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID or the address update attachment to the driver's license/identification card.
The residential address of the transferee as the transferee declares on the DROS form.

Young buyers are often in this situation where parents disapprove. I accepted a sample ballot for one transaction. I just want to be able to show that it was something within the last 90 days like for utility bills.




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Mountain View, CA 94043
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy's Shooting Sports View Post
Young buyers are often in this situation where parents disapprove. I accepted a sample ballot for one transaction. I just want to be able to show that it was something within the last 90 days like for utility bills.
My W-2 was issued by a CSU(a state agency), as a vendor would you accept something like this?
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  #6  
Old 02-24-2013, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy's Shooting Sports View Post
Where did you find the "expiration" requirement?

The DOJ FAQ says:

Government-issued (city, county, special district, state or federal) documentation that has all of the following - - This does not include a drivers license or DMV-issued ID card:
The name of the transferee as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID.
The name of the transferee as the transferee declares on the DROS form.
The residential address of the transferee as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID or the address update attachment to the driver's license/identification card.
The residential address of the transferee as the transferee declares on the DROS form.

Young buyers are often in this situation where parents disapprove. I accepted a sample ballot for one transaction. I just want to be able to show that it was something within the last 90 days like for utility bills.




Greg David
Eddy's Shooting Sports
400 Moffett Blvd.,Suite F
Mountain View, CA 94043
(660)969-GUNS

T-F 12-7 W 12-9 Sat 11-5
Closed Sun/Mon
Not sure which FAQ you are on, but here is the one I am on. http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#33G
Quote:
Current, government-issued license, permit, or registration, other than a CA Driver License or CA Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form
or

The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.
Examples of acceptable proof of residency:

Current DMV registrations.
Electricity, gas, cable bill with purchaser's name onit from within the last 3 months.
Signed, dated and notarized rental agreement/contract.
Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:

Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
Cellular phone bill.
Yes they say a hunting or fishing license won't work, but now that the DFG is on the automated system, the DOJ has stated they will take it. Your FFL might not agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSociety View Post
I read somewhere that it is also possible to use a driving record print out from the DMV, but I'm not entirely sure that the print out comes with an address.
DMV printout does not have a period of validity nor expiration date.
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=327217

You need a government issued document with an expiration date. I would suggest getting a hunting or fishing license.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
Not sure which FAQ you are on, but here is the one I am on. http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#33G


Yes they say a hunting or fishing license won't work, but now that the DFG is on the automated system, the DOJ has stated they will take it. Your FFL might not agree.

DMV printout does not have a period of validity nor expiration date.

We just had a DOJ inspection last week and the DOJ inspector told us that a fishing license does not count anymore even if it is printed out because the system that is used to issue the license just pulls the address from their DMV issued license. We specifically asked about this scenario.
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Last edited by Elite Armory; 02-25-2013 at 11:17 PM..
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  #8  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:17 PM
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You have a drivers license? Get a state ID.

You only have a state ID? Get a drivers license.
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  #9  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xjdesertfox View Post
You have a drivers license? Get a state ID.

You only have a state ID? Get a drivers license.
Drivers license and/or State ID do not work as proof of residency.
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2013, 11:54 PM
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sorry to side track but didnt want to start a new thread

would a DL that is issued in one county ( a PO BOX) and a car registration issued in my current county and residence(Street addy) cause a issue in a handgun PPT ? or would i need some other form of ID for the transaction ?
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  #11  
Old 02-26-2013, 6:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Armory View Post
We just had a DOJ inspection last week and the DOJ inspector told us that a fishing license does not count anymore even if it is printed out because the system that is used to issue the license just pulls the address from their DMV issued license. We specifically asked about this scenario.
However that is not necessarily true. We can edit the system!

I had them tell me on the phone it was legit so I am using it. We could also argue they ordered it online and had it sent to them. That most certainly is a government issued document with an expiration date.

I wonder if we should start working on getting a definitive answer on this or if not having a definitive answer works better for us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
sorry to side track but didnt want to start a new thread

would a DL that is issued in one county ( a PO BOX) and a car registration issued in my current county and residence(Street addy) cause a issue in a handgun PPT ? or would i need some other form of ID for the transaction ?
It will not cause an issue. You have the correct documentation to be the buyer and even a seller (even though no correction is necessary) on a PPT.
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2013, 1:08 PM
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If you look at most government documents, the address comes from your DMV ID/DL, so it is all a bit of a bad joke. I heard that the reason why a DL/ID is not acceptable is because some people live in NV, but work in CA and need a CA DL. The DL should show the NV residence address though, so that really does not make sense. This issue also is only for handguns.

The only reason to push the issue is to see if you can get the DOJ to understand that a CA DL/ID should be acceptable proof of residency.
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Old 02-26-2013, 1:12 PM
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Thanks Wes sure wish i was closer to your shop
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Old 02-26-2013, 1:40 PM
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Proof of residency is required to get a CA DL/ID, are you having problems finding that
documentation?

Or do your parents have it locked up and you are looking for a work around?
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:53 PM
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I was able to convince my parents into signing a simple residential lease I found online and modified.

I appreciate all the help, all of you guys are great. I get to pick up my gun tomorrow.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers
sorry to side track but didnt want to start a new thread

would a DL that is issued in one county ( a PO BOX) and a car registration issued in my current county and residence(Street addy) cause a issue in a handgun PPT ? or would i need some other form of ID for the transaction ?
It will not cause an issue. You have the correct documentation to be the buyer and even a seller (even though no correction is necessary) on a PPT.
so Wes i started mt PPT but was told i need a second "proof of residence" at pick up due to my DL having a PO BOX and this is the list they said would be acceptable .. is this a normal thing or just a store policy ?
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:04 AM
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DOJ OAG site has a list of approved Proof of Residency documents: http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/resprf but does not state the codes. "Under Bureau of Firearms policy and soon to be proposed in regulations, firearms dealers may accept any of the following:"
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
so Wes i started mt PPT but was told i need a second "proof of residence" at pick up due to my DL having a PO BOX and this is the list they said would be acceptable .. is this a normal thing or just a store policy ?
They are wrong, but not in the way that you might think. If your ID does not have your current residence address, the Feds require a government document with your residence address on it. For CA, the others are ok.

It is a requirement from CA & Feds., so it is not just a store policy (although their store policy is wrong).

As a side note, it is not a second proof of residency, it is a proof of residence since CA does not accept a CA ID/DL as proof of residency for handguns.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
They are wrong, but not in the way that you might think. If your ID does not have your current residence address, the Feds require a government document with your residence address on it. For CA, the others are ok.

It is a requirement from CA & Feds., so it is not just a store policy (although their store policy is wrong).

As a side note, it is not a second proof of residency, it is a proof of residence since CA does not accept a CA ID/DL as proof of residency for handguns.
i also came in with my current car registration with street addy they said that was fine but needed what is shown on the letter for a second form of proof of residence
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Old 03-04-2013, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
i also came in with my current car registration with street addy they said that was fine but needed what is shown on the letter for a second form of proof of residence
they are wrong, your current car registration with your current street address on it is all you legally need to comply with CA and federal law.
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Old 03-04-2013, 4:55 PM
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they are wrong, your current car registration with your current street address on it is all you legally need to comply with CA and federal law.
kinda what i thought also from what i have read but was not sure the laws change so much all the time this is the first handgun i have bought in many year ... last few i bought i had to get a BFSC and when that changed i stopped buying until recently ... anywho i will bring in what they want and find a different shop ....
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:28 AM
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[QUOTE=tenpercentfirearms;10633863]Not sure which FAQ you are on, but here is the one I am on. http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#33G


http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/resprf

Different page. Different info.

The one you quote says "license, permit, or registration" WITH expiration date.

The page I'm quoting simply says "government issued documentation" and has no expiration requirement.

Which is correct?



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Mountain View, CA 94043
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Closed Sun/Mon
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Old 03-05-2013, 8:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy's Shooting Sports View Post

Which is correct?
both are just FAQs, look at the actual regulations and you'll see this:

11 CCR § 4045

Cal. Admin. Code tit. 11, § 4045

Barclays Official California Code of Regulations Currentness
Title 11. Law
Division 5. Firearms Regulations
Chapter 4. Evidence of Residency Documentation
§ 4045. Definitions and Requirements.


The following definitions and requirements apply to documents intended to serve as evidence of residency for the acquisition of a handgun pursuant to Penal Code section 26845:

a.1. “Utility bill” means a statement of charges for providing direct service to the individual's residence by either a physical connection (i.e., hard wired telephone or cable connection, or a water or gas pipeline connection), or a telemetric connection (i.e., satellite television or radio broadcast service) to a non-mobile, fixed antenna reception device.

2. The utility bill statement date must be within three months of the current date.

3. The utility bill must bear on its face the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.

B. The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

b.1. “Residential lease” means either of the following:

A. A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time.

B. A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.

2. The residential lease must bear the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form.

B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

c.1. “Property deed” means either of the following:

A. A valid deed of trust for the individual's property of current residence that identifies the individual as a grantee of the trust.

B. A valid Certificate of Title issued by a licensed title insurance company that identifies the individual as a title holder to his or her property of current residence.

2. The property deed must bear the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form.

B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

d. “Other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice” means either of the following:

1. A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:

A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the DROS form.

B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

2. A valid peace officer credential issued by a California law enforcement agency to an active, reserve, or retired peace officer.

Note: Authority cited: Section 26845, Penal Code. Reference: Sections 26845 and 27550, Penal Code.

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  #24  
Old 03-12-2013, 11:23 AM
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Why does DOJ put bad info in their FAQ's? Any reasonable person would assume guidelines given in an official FAQ would be supported by actual law.

I guess I better print out both FAQ's and I hope I don't have to use them in an audit...


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Mountain View, CA 94043
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:42 AM
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Figure I might as well ask here since the FFLs all seem to be here too. I am running into a similar problem. Car and home are registered in my girlfriends name (she got a better rate through her credit union than we could together), and while I am "on" the utilities, the only one I have that displays my name when sent is the water bill.

Last week I brought my DL and water bill with for my purchase last week and my FFL said I need something else and listed a bunch of bills or car registration which of course I don't have. Since my license displayed my previous address (we moved a month ago), would getting an updated license from the DMV work or do I really need to find some other bill?

Thanks guys!
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:46 AM
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Who is going to force them to be accurate?
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  #27  
Old 03-17-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lagkiller View Post
Figure I might as well ask here since the FFLs all seem to be here too. I am running into a similar problem. Car and home are registered in my girlfriends name (she got a better rate through her credit union than we could together), and while I am "on" the utilities, the only one I have that displays my name when sent is the water bill.

Last week I brought my DL and water bill with for my purchase last week and my FFL said I need something else and listed a bunch of bills or car registration which of course I don't have. Since my license displayed my previous address (we moved a month ago), would getting an updated license from the DMV work or do I really need to find some other bill?

Thanks guys!
Water bill is good for the state, but only good for Fed if your bill is from a municipality. Cal water for example is a private company. You need a government issued document since your license does not bear your current address.
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  #28  
Old 03-17-2013, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Eddy's Shooting Sports View Post
Why does DOJ put bad info in their FAQ's? Any reasonable person would assume guidelines given in an official FAQ would be supported by actual law.

I guess I better print out both FAQ's and I hope I don't have to use them in an audit.
Not to put too sharp a point on it, but this is YOUR business. You're supposed to know this crap.

Just so you know, the Penal Code citations on the DOJ BOF site are the old code sections which were changed two years ago.
This is also on their website, and is out of date:
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag...s/Cfl2007.pdf?

Good luck with documenting your compliance with statutes based your reliance with these DOJ Internet FAQs. Now that you've identified a conflict between entries, your defense of innocent reliance is gone.

Best.

JR
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  #29  
Old 03-17-2013, 1:07 PM
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So how does a person who doesn't have a permanent residence obtain a handgun? Gypsies are screwed or what?

Never thought about it before now.. but how does one have to have residency in order to exercise a right?
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  #30  
Old 03-17-2013, 2:50 PM
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Ok, since quite a while i use my Calif Real Estate Brokers licence (govt issued, expiration date, my name and address appearing). It is a perfect document, as is any other similar professional licence--State Bar, Accounting, Medical, Architecural, Pest Control, etc)

2. I have used a new, current Social Security statement. I went to an SS office, got a current printout of my benefits and took that in also. In light of having the RE licence the SS statement would be redundant.

3. I have used an IRS Estimated Tax Statement which many of us get every year in the mail--(again, govt issued, name and address appearing, dated within 90 days of the purchase).

4. If a person doesnt own the place where they live and have no rental agreement, a signed letter from the owner that you live there, accompanied by a copy of the Grant Deed also works.

These alternatives arent on the list of usual suspects but they meet the guideline so they are acceptable.
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  #31  
Old 05-17-2013, 2:28 PM
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I overheard during a transaction at another retailer that residence/hardline phone service statement/bill is not acceptable. When I asked the cashier as I was checking out with my paper targets why they no longer accept residence phone bills, she said it's because the address for the account can be set up and used and mailed elsewhere. I was in a hurry and didn't try to clarify, but I was thinking that I also have utility statements and vehicle registrations with addresses (for my business) that is mailed to another address. Is this a new standard or trend for secondary forms of residency? Just curious.
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  #32  
Old 05-17-2013, 3:23 PM
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I overheard during a transaction at another retailer that residence/hardline phone service statement/bill is not acceptable. When I asked the cashier as I was checking out with my paper targets why they no longer accept residence phone bills, she said it's because the address for the account can be set up and used and mailed elsewhere. I was in a hurry and didn't try to clarify, but I was thinking that I also have utility statements and vehicle registrations with addresses (for my business) that is mailed to another address. Is this a new standard or trend for secondary forms of residency? Just curious.
FUD.
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  #33  
Old 05-17-2013, 3:39 PM
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No change, but places do sometimes make up rules.
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  #34  
Old 05-17-2013, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms View Post
FUD.
Check with Turners in Chino Hills. They do not accept residence phone bill as secondary proof of residency. I was just there this afternoon. I was just asking the more knowledgeable folks here if this is something I need to be aware of as a larger trend going forward, perhaps there was an update sent to FFLs since I'm not an FFL similar to sales tax updates sent from the BOE to retailers, etc. Thanks for the accusation, though. It sure makes asking about this stuff to be better informed so welcoming.

Last edited by Vin63; 05-17-2013 at 5:13 PM.. Reason: typo
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  #35  
Old 05-17-2013, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin63 View Post
Check with Turners in Chino Hills. They do not accept residence phone bill as secondary proof of residency. I was just there this afternoon. I was just asking the more knowledgeable folks here if this is something I need to be aware of as a larger trend going forward, perhaps there was an update sent to FFLs since I'm not an FFL similar to sales tax updates sent from the BOE to retailers, etc. Thanks for the accusation, though. It sure makes asking about this stuff to be better informed so welcoming.
Don't take it as an accusation. I think that the response was just meant to say that it was not true and that the FUD was on the part of the FFL, not you.
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  #36  
Old 05-18-2013, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin63 View Post
Check with Turners in Chino Hills. They do not accept residence phone bill as secondary proof of residency. I was just there this afternoon. I was just asking the more knowledgeable folks here if this is something I need to be aware of as a larger trend going forward, perhaps there was an update sent to FFLs since I'm not an FFL similar to sales tax updates sent from the BOE to retailers, etc. Thanks for the accusation, though. It sure makes asking about this stuff to be better informed so welcoming.
What you were told was FUD. You asked a question. You are not spreading FUD. You are seeking clarification. My answer to your question is the gun shop is spreading FUD.

There isn't anything more to discuss. The gun shop is making up their own rules. You can find all of the rules here.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=327217
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  #37  
Old 05-19-2013, 12:09 AM
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Off topic, but, can I get a definitive yes or no on new voter registration card for proof of residency? My girlfriend is shopping for a new 10/22 and her DL address is not current, and all utilities are in my name. We only have a copy of the lease.
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  #38  
Old 05-19-2013, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ShadowSociety View Post
I was able to convince my parents into signing a simple residential lease I found online and modified.

I appreciate all the help, all of you guys are great. I get to pick up my gun tomorrow.
I did the same thing for my first handgun
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  #39  
Old 05-20-2013, 8:24 AM
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Off topic, but, can I get a definitive yes or no on new voter registration card for proof of residency? My girlfriend is shopping for a new 10/22 and her DL address is not current, and all utilities are in my name. We only have a copy of the lease.
Is it a government issued document? Then yes it works for proof of residency for the Feds when your DL/ID address does not match your 4473 address.
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