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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 01-16-2013, 11:39 AM
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Default CCW Denied by Sacramento Sheriff......because of where I work?

I applied for the CCW and went to my appointment last month. The detectives were very positive and in more or less words said "mine was an easy one" and it would get approved.

Well fast forward to today, I get the mail, and I get a denial. The reasoning is:

"Due to your ability to apply with your current, employer, the sheriff does not grant your application request to be the recipient of a Concealed Weapons Permit."

I work for CDCR, but I am not a correctional officer nor any type of peace officer.

I called and left a message with the number there...but I am unsure what type of "documents" I need to submit an appeal.

I don't understand how I would be denied a CCW with a spic'n'span clean record, just because of where I work.

Anyone else have this happen before?
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  #2  
Old 01-16-2013, 11:58 AM
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That sucks. Sorry to hear the bad news. Hope you get to appeal.
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  #3  
Old 01-16-2013, 5:40 PM
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Did you explain to the S.O. that CDCR does not issue to non-sworn when they interviewed you?
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  #4  
Old 01-16-2013, 6:08 PM
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Clearly they made a mistake. More than likely they didn't look closely at your job title. CDCR issues CCW authorization to their qualified peace officers. For anyone who is not a peace officer in their organization the only place you can obtain a LTC is the city (if you live inside one and its chief issues) or the county sheriff. Just appeal and explain this situation. Perhaps a job description for your position would help them.
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Old 01-16-2013, 6:13 PM
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Isn't it frustrating that your fundamental right to defend yourself was so flippantly denied?
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  #6  
Old 01-16-2013, 6:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECOV9x19 View Post
Did you explain to the S.O. that CDCR does not issue to non-sworn when they interviewed you?
They did not ask, and i didnt think it was something i had to tell them.
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  #7  
Old 01-16-2013, 6:56 PM
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I would definitely appeal and explain fully this time around.
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Old 01-16-2013, 7:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
"Due to your ability to apply with your current, employer, the sheriff does not grant your application request to be the recipient of a Concealed Weapons Permit."

I work for CDCR, but I am not a correctional officer nor any type of peace officer.

I called and left a message with the number there...but I am unsure what type of "documents" I need to submit an appeal.

I don't understand how I would be denied a CCW with a spic'n'span clean record, just because of where I work.
Sounds like the sheriff denied you because you CAN apply where you work.

From the sheriffs perspective it looks like you applied at work and they turned you down because they know something about you (no judgement or accusation by me!) by working with you.

Apply at work, if they reject your application because "that's not something we do here" take that letter to the sheriff showing it's not you it's the protocol where you work.
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  #9  
Old 01-16-2013, 9:18 PM
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wow, that sucks to hear. Hopefully after an appeal you will be able to be issued a CCW. Good luck
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2013, 9:41 PM
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If he is not a CDCR peace officer they cannot authorize him to carry CCW. For non-peace officers they must contact the Sheriff's dept of their county of residence or the police dept if they live in a city and want to try there first. CDCR has no legal authority to authorize non-peace officer carry of a firearm while not at work.
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2013, 7:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewcmr2 View Post
Sounds like the sheriff denied you because you CAN apply where you work.

From the sheriffs perspective it looks like you applied at work and they turned you down because they know something about you (no judgement or accusation by me!) by working with you.

Apply at work, if they reject your application because "that's not something we do here" take that letter to the sheriff showing it's not you it's the protocol where you work.
From what I understand they don't issue CCWs to anyone.

From what I understand about C/Os is that since they are peace officers, but not full time peace officers, they only need to get their department to issue them a qualification card for their weapon to CCW off duty.

I do not have the ability to apply to CDCR for a CCW, even if I was a C/O, and I'm just a peper pusher for medical.

I am upset because I'm a civil servant performing a service for our state, yet I am denied but if I worked at Burger King it would be kosher.

/rant
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
From what I understand they don't issue CCWs to anyone.

From what I understand about C/Os is that since they are peace officers, but not full time peace officers, they only need to get their department to issue them a qualification card for their weapon to CCW off duty.

I do not have the ability to apply to CDCR for a CCW, even if I was a C/O, and I'm just a peper pusher for medical.

I am upset because I'm a civil servant performing a service for our state, yet I am denied but if I worked at Burger King it would be kosher.

/rant
MM--Get mad; Get even; or GET ON WITH IT!

SACMEDIC has it right! Use the bureaucracy in place. Consider this a mis-understanding during application -- oh well, stuff happens. File your appeal to the Sac Sheriff Office (SSO)

http://www.sacsheriff.com/organization/office_of_the_sheriff/images/ccw_process.pdf

Page 3:

"Applicants who are denied a concealed weapons permit will be advised of the reason for the denial."

Your denial was: "Due to your ability to apply with your current, employer, the sheriff does not grant your application request to be the recipient of a Concealed Weapons Permit."

(SSO) "Applicants may appeal if their application for a permit is denied. All appeals must be submitted in writing to:"

"Sacramento County Sheriff뭩 Department
Attention: Gun Permits
711 G Street
Sacramento, CA 95814"

"Written appeals should be specific, clearly outlining the applicant뭩 rebuttal to the reason stated for denial. Additional information, which may be pertinent to the applicant뭩 request for a permit should also be included."

Your appeal should be simple, but should not be based on "...what I understand...). You just have to show that you don't, "...have the ability to apply (for a CCW) with your current employer...". You need to do this with facts, not impressions.

A quick contact with your HR community should be able to confirm (in writing) that your state job classification does not provide for CCW through CDCR. (They don't need to know why you're asking, but a simple, "...this came up in discussion...", might get you there.)

I suspect it will be a derivative of your classification not being subject to the conditions of CDCR Operations Manual, Chapter 5, Article 1, and Penal Code (PC) Sections 830.2(d)(1) & (2) and PC 830.5., (but I could be wrong.)

A short, polite letter, attaching your denial and your supporting documents should suffice.

Note: Appeals must be received by the Sheriff뭩 Department no later than (30) thirty days from the date of the notification letter.

Best of Luck, (29 days left)

JR
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2013, 3:58 PM
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Definitely appeal. Something has definitely gotten lost in translation!
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  #14  
Old 01-19-2013, 10:44 AM
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I thought CO,s from CDCR were authorized to carry underneath LEOSA. They certainly meet the requirements, unless they don't qualify annually or have credentials issued with I doubt.
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Old 01-19-2013, 3:34 PM
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I would expect you to have very good chances on appeal and they do take appeals seriously in Sacramento County.

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  #16  
Old 01-21-2013, 10:56 AM
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Very interesting. I too am a civilian with CDCR and want to get my LTC. It should be pretty straight forward if you tell them that CDCR does not give them to non peace officers. Keep us posted.
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2013, 8:13 AM
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I contacted my HR and got no response as expected, so i cant wait any longer. Submitted a letter to the effect of "cdcr has no authority to issue ccw to non peace officers, i am not nor ever have been a peace officer" i further explain my work classification and respectfully request an appeal.

Lets see what happens.
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:04 AM
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Out of curiosity, did you ask the IST Lieutenant if they know anything about it?
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  #19  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:23 AM
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Ist sarge. No reply to email or phone measage
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  #20  
Old 01-25-2013, 1:55 PM
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MM

PM sent to you.
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  #21  
Old 02-21-2013, 4:42 PM
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Quick update guys:

Just got a letter from the Sheriff's office.

Exact same letter as the original, except they replaced the word "Application" with the word "Appeal"

I've completely lost all faith in our local government, and I no longer have any respect for the "authority" when they obviously have no respect for citizens' rights.
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  #22  
Old 02-21-2013, 4:53 PM
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That took my buzz off. I am, for once, speechless. WTH?

JR

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  #23  
Old 02-21-2013, 5:28 PM
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You need to talk to someone in the sheriff's dept in person. That's the strangest thing I've ever heard.
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Old 02-21-2013, 6:54 PM
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Really felt like a

"Dear Mr. X"

"F*CK You, lol."
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  #25  
Old 02-22-2013, 8:30 AM
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I searched the Department Operations Manual (DOM) and it doesn't say anything about non peace officers being able to get a CCW through CDCR. In fact the only thing it mentions is that peace officers with their PC 832 can qualify and honorably retired peace officers can apply for one. I'm not quite sure how you can prove something that isn't in the DOM but maybe you can print out the parts where it says peace officers and retired peace officers. Also, the only CDCR forms I could find pertaining to it is regarding retired peace officers.
Good luck.
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  #26  
Old 02-22-2013, 9:39 AM
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Thanks. My appeal was denied, so i can't even re-apply until next year anyway.

Maybe I'll have jumped ship to EDD by then.
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Old 02-22-2013, 9:48 AM
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Quote:
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Thanks. My appeal was denied, so i can't even re-apply until next year anyway.

Maybe I'll have jumped ship to EDD by then.

You are freaking kidding!
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  #28  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
Thanks. My appeal was denied, so i can't even re-apply until next year anyway.

Maybe I'll have jumped ship to EDD by then.
Yeah, but you were denied for an invalid reason. Contact them and see. Keep bugging them. Don't give up.
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  #29  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
Thanks. My appeal was denied, so i can't even re-apply until next year anyway.

Maybe I'll have jumped ship to EDD by then.
I would suggest contacting CGF to see if they have any suggestions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I would expect you to have very good chances on appeal and they do take appeals seriously in Sacramento County.

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Old 02-22-2013, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
Thanks. My appeal was denied, so i can't even re-apply until next year anyway.

Maybe I'll have jumped ship to EDD by then.
You don't want to wait a year and you don't want have to explain previous refusals. See post 12. Your agency doesn't have the authority to issue to you because of your classification. Penal Code (PC) Sections 830.2(d)(1) & (2) and PC 830.5. identify the employees who are peace officers. CDCR Operations Manual, Chapter 5, Article 1, applies the statute. You need to identify yourself as not one of them. That's where the position duty statement, NOPA and other employment documents come in.

I would also suggest a call to Amber (she is a functionary, not a decision maker) and briefly and politely explain there is some great confusion over your classification status under the state and that is causing the rejection. How can you best proceed? With whom can you speak?

JR
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Old 02-22-2013, 7:42 PM
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Dig around as discussed above, then, at the end of April - if you don't have success, contact CGF.

-Gene
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Old 03-15-2013, 7:36 PM
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Yeah, call or email Amber Wong. I'd suggest email. She's always been extremely helpful to me.
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  #33  
Old 03-27-2013, 2:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mossy Man View Post
I applied for the CCW and went to my appointment last month. The detectives were very positive and in more or less words said "mine was an easy one" and it would get approved.

Well fast forward to today, I get the mail, and I get a denial. The reasoning is:

"Due to your ability to apply with your current, employer, the sheriff does not grant your application request to be the recipient of a Concealed Weapons Permit."

I work for CDCR, but I am not a correctional officer nor any type of peace officer.

I called and left a message with the number there...but I am unsure what type of "documents" I need to submit an appeal.

I don't understand how I would be denied a CCW with a spic'n'span clean record, just because of where I work.

Anyone else have this happen before?
I am CDCR and non-Peace Officer Classification (non-PC832) and even discussed this with the detective that interviewed me. My application was approved without a hiccup.

Doesn’t have to be CDCR – this scenario would apply to any LE agency, even Sac County Sheriff staff who are not sworn officers who apply for CCW. This can’t possibly be new to, or in any way confusing to SCSD that while you work for CDCR, you are not PC832 and would therefore not be empowered to carry by that agency – any more than an office technician at SCSD would be able to carry because she works for SCSD.
Story seems a little fishy -

Last edited by johnjohn301; 03-27-2013 at 2:27 PM..
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  #34  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjohn301 View Post
I am CDCR and non-Peace Officer Classification (non-PC832) and even discussed this with the detective that interviewed me. My application was approved without a hiccup.

Doesn뭪 have to be CDCR this scenario would apply to any LE agency, even Sac County Sheriff staff who are not sworn officers who apply for CCW. This can뭪 possibly be new to, or in any way confusing to SCSD that while you work for CDCR, you are not PC832 and would therefore not be empowered to carry by that agency any more than an office technician at SCSD would be able to carry because she works for SCSD.
Story seems a little fishy -
Don't know what to tell you

I got denied twice, with those exact reasons.

My record is clean, I have never done anything wrong, and I work for CCHCS
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone_Gunman View Post
Yeah, call or email Amber Wong. I'd suggest email. She's always been extremely helpful to me.
I did last week, and as yet have received no response.
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Old 05-24-2013, 7:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacmedic View Post
Clearly they made a mistake. More than likely they didn't look closely at your job title. CDCR issues CCW authorization to their qualified peace officers. For anyone who is not a peace officer in their organization the only place you can obtain a LTC is the city (if you live inside one and its chief issues) or the county sheriff. Just appeal and explain this situation. Perhaps a job description for your position would help them.
^ That.
Billy
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:59 PM
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Mossy Man sorry you have been denied twice. Sounds like BS to me. Keep trying. It sounds like the denied you thinking that you are a peace officer and are covered under PC.830.5. Make shore they know that you are a non-peace officer that works for CDCR. If a CSC can get a CDW so can you. Keep trying.
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Old 05-28-2013, 9:52 AM
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my husband is a CO with CDCR and I'm going to assume they just saw CDCR and assumed what the poster below stated. Since the peace officers MUST qualify quarterly with off duty weapon to get the card through CDCR they may have made the assumption you could not do so, thus seeking from the SO. I'd appeal and make sure they know you are admin or other type of employee, not a peace officer and a letter from CDCR explaining this couldn't hurt. Sorry you hit a snag. My husband tried to be nice and not rub it in after we took a CCW class together (he came along to support me) and he 1)didn't have to pay since the instructor was cool like that for any LEO or peace officers, 2) got to take his little page right into work and bam 3) had his "permit" that day. sigh....me? still jumping through the hoops like a pup in training! :P Let us know how it goes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewcmr2 View Post
Sounds like the sheriff denied you because you CAN apply where you work.

From the sheriffs perspective it looks like you applied at work and they turned you down because they know something about you (no judgement or accusation by me!) by working with you.

Apply at work, if they reject your application because "that's not something we do here" take that letter to the sheriff showing it's not you it's the protocol where you work.
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  #39  
Old 06-02-2013, 9:25 PM
Dvrjon Dvrjon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLD83 View Post
my husband is a CO with CDCR and I'm going to assume they just saw CDCR and assumed what the poster below stated. Since the peace officers MUST qualify quarterly with off duty weapon to get the card through CDCR they may have made the assumption you could not do so, thus seeking from the SO. I'd appeal and make sure they know you are admin or other type of employee, not a peace officer and a letter from CDCR explaining this couldn't hurt. Sorry you hit a snag. My husband tried to be nice and not rub it in after we took a CCW class together (he came along to support me) and he 1)didn't have to pay since the instructor was cool like that for any LEO or peace officers, 2) got to take his little page right into work and bam 3) had his "permit" that day. sigh....me? still jumping through the hoops like a pup in training! :P Let us know how it goes!
And when you get your LTC, you're good for two years. He'll still have to qualify every quarter.
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  #40  
Old 06-03-2013, 12:37 PM
VRWC VRWC is offline
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Default I'm new here but.............

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Originally Posted by Lone_Gunman View Post
Yeah, call or email Amber Wong. I'd suggest email. She's always been extremely helpful to me.
I agree. I've been through the process and Amber is top-shelf, great person and very helpful. My philosophy through the CCW process is "disclosure is everything".
Pertaining just to me - there was nothing I did not disclose at my initial interview/application submission that had the slightest chance of being pertinent to my LTC; including "dumb stuff" I did as an adolescent or young adult and/or all of my previous employers and my present occupation. As a result, my interview probably took longer than it should have, but there were no unanswered questions when I left and zero problems.
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