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  #1  
Old 03-08-2013, 2:18 PM
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Grendl Grendl is offline
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Default DROS Denied?

Hey gang, I tried buying a modern pistol and the FFL said my transfer was "delayed". He had me call them and they said it was because I'd violated the 1 in 30 day rule. I explained that my prior purchase had been to C&R handguns and so was not in violation. They said, "you're wrong" and wouldn't discuss it further.

Next, my FFL sent a great email explaining the situation, citing the code sections, and they failed to respond. He then called and got someone on the phone and asked, "Since 31 days had passed, could he submit another DROS?" She told him "no", that no matter when he submits it -- whether it be today, next week, etc., that I would still be denied." She refused to discuss it with him further due to "confidentiality issues."

Here's my confusion: I'm an attorney licensed to practice law in California. I renewed my license in December and they won't renew your license if you are late on support or have unpaid traffic tickets. I have neither anyway. I just renewed my COE in January and my FFL03 in February. What possibly could there be that would cause her to tell him that no matter when submitted, my DROS would be denied?

Sorry for the long winded response, but I'm actually loosing sleep over this and they have not answered their phones since I received the news last night.
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  #2  
Old 03-08-2013, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grendl View Post
Hey gang, I tried buying a modern pistol and the FFL said my transfer was "delayed". He had me call them and they said it was because I'd violated the 1 in 30 day rule. I explained that my prior purchase had been to C&R handguns and so was not in violation. They said, "you're wrong" and wouldn't discuss it further.
If it was a 1 in 30 violation it should have been denied, not delayed. I had a customer with that issue. Did you call to ask what is going on?

Quote:
Next, my FFL sent a great email explaining the situation, citing the code sections, and they failed to respond. He then called and got someone on the phone and asked, "Since 31 days had passed, could he submit another DROS?" She told him "no", that no matter when he submits it -- whether it be today, next week, etc., that I would still be denied." She refused to discuss it with him further due to "confidentiality issues."
That does not make sense, unless it was delayed for some reason. If it is delayed, then you can't really re-submit it.

I had a customer who accidentally violated the 1 in 30, the DROS was denied, a day or two later the DROS was re-submitted without a problem, but this was around a year ago.

Quote:
Here's my confusion: I'm an attorney licensed to practice law in California. I renewed my license in December and they won't renew your license if you are late on support or have unpaid traffic tickets. I have neither anyway. I just renewed my COE in January and my FFL03 in February. What possibly could there be that would cause her to tell him that no matter when submitted, my DROS would be denied?
Maybe they just don't like attorneys due to all the grief they must be getting due to all the recent issues. You need to confirm whether your DROS was delayed or denied and the exact reason for it.

Quote:
Sorry for the long winded response, but I'm actually loosing sleep over this and they have not answered their phones since I received the news last night.
That seems to be how they are operating right now. There is a thread on the DROS issues with an email address of an attorney who is dealing with it.
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  #3  
Old 03-08-2013, 5:29 PM
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Not too sure, but I think California does not recognize CnR pistols as CnR, just treated as any pistol DROS.

I think only black powder pistols count.

Therefore, you did violate the 1 in 30.

In addition, I heard at the local gun shop that thanks to the panic there are dozens of new clerks at the DOJ who make tons of newbie mistakes.
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Old 03-08-2013, 5:37 PM
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If it is the buyer has a C&R FFL and CA DOJ COE, then they are exempt from the 1 in 30 (although the law does not limit it to C&R handguns, the CA DOJ FAQ claims it only applies to C&R handguns). The FFL needs to mark it as exempt though.
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Old 03-08-2013, 5:42 PM
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Some black powder revolvers count, some do not.
It all depends.
I think you just have to resubmit. Reapply, that is.
dc
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Old 03-09-2013, 5:48 PM
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Thanks gang. I tried calling both numbers I was given all day and it was busy all day. I'll post an update when I have one.

I filled out the Calguns DOJ incident report, but didn't see anything about an attorney looking into these instances.

BTW I never told DOJ I was a lawyer and only brought it up here because the kinds of things that would make me permanently ineligible to purchase would also prevent me from renewing my license.
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  #7  
Old 03-10-2013, 7:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grendl View Post
Thanks gang. I tried calling both numbers I was given all day and it was busy all day. I'll post an update when I have one.

I filled out the Calguns DOJ incident report, but didn't see anything about an attorney looking into these instances.

BTW I never told DOJ I was a lawyer and only brought it up here because the kinds of things that would make me permanently ineligible to purchase would also prevent me from renewing my license.
You never had any arrests decades ago did you? They are currently delaying people who have had arrests without dispositions. They are assuming you are guilty and requiring you to prove you were not convicted of anything before releasing your firearm. Never mind that you have a bar card, CCW, or anything else you do. They won't give you your gun.
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  #8  
Old 03-10-2013, 10:23 AM
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Nope. Nothing. Embarrassingly clean record. Boring life officially.
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  #9  
Old 03-10-2013, 1:04 PM
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Sounds like your DROS got tossed in the "we'll get to these when we get to them" pile.
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  #10  
Old 03-10-2013, 1:20 PM
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Sounds like you'll need to lawyer up with one of the CalGun lawyers in the know with CA DOJ or wait for it to all resolve its self.
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Old 03-12-2013, 9:47 AM
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Not as yet. I filled out the DOJ shenanigans interview and sent an email to Jason, the attorney who is supposedly looking into these. I've given up on calling. I got past the busy signal three times, and each time the phone rang for about five minutes before disconnecting. Based on what I've read here, if they do pick up they're rude and can't answer your questions. Don't need that added aggravation.

I will provide an update as soon as I have one :-)
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  #12  
Old 03-12-2013, 4:08 PM
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I just received a phone call from a very cheerful "Andrea" at DOJ. She asked, "What can I do for you?" I asked about the DROS denial and she looked it up using my drivers license number. She typed it in and said, "Hmmm, that's weird, you were approved and denied within 4 days."

I explained about the two C&R transactions on 2/4 and how they were exempt. Then she chuckled and said, "Huh. Did you rob a bank since then?" I confirmed I had not.

I asked if it was possibly due to an old traffic ticket and she said, "No, unpaid tickets and child support are DMV rejections, not a denial. We tell the FFL if it's a DMV issue." I asked if she knew why I was denied and she then asked me to hold while she looked.

She came back after about a minute and said, "It was a 1 in 30 violation." I said, "That's a relief, when my FFL asked about resubmitting the woman told him it would be denied whether he resubmitted in a day or a week or whenever." She said, that was odd. She couldn't understand why anyone would say that a subsequent DROS would be denied.

She said, "It was definitely a 1 in 30 violation. You're good to go after the 13th, hey that's tomorrow. The 30 days runs from the last DROS." I asked if the explanation letter was still coming and she said, "Yes, to you not your FFL, it's a privacy issue." I thanked her and wished her a good afternoon.

I didn't want to argue the 1 in 30 C&R/COE exemption issue with her since she said I was good to go tomorrow (I've reviewed the code sections; nobody can show me anywhere where it says the exemption is limited to C&Rs. The HSC exemption only applies to C&R handguns, but not the 1 in 30 exemption).

So, I guess I'll try again in a day or two. I'll update this post with the final results. Thank you all for your interest and support.
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  #13  
Old 03-12-2013, 5:07 PM
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Just got back from ffl and he told me a similar story, Justice told ffl a date, long story short 2 attempts were filed, 2 failures, and the buyer and ffl lost their fees for 2 attempts, still hasn't gone through

sunaj
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Old 03-12-2013, 5:41 PM
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How long does it take to get the DROS back whereas the rest is the 10-day waiting time? I was doing a DROS today and the guy was putting it into the computer and then got a printout afterwards. Did he get the answer right then and there?
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Old 03-12-2013, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
How long does it take to get the DROS back whereas the rest is the 10-day waiting time? I was doing a DROS today and the guy was putting it into the computer and then got a printout afterwards. Did he get the answer right then and there?
No.

Submitting the DROS starts the 10-day clock.

In 'ordinary times' the DOJ does some background-check-stuff, complete sometime in the 10-day mandated wait.
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