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  #41  
Old 03-02-2013, 9:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
There is a cycle in Newbery Park / Thousand Oaks with an AR on it as well. Its a different mount. The AR stands upright. I could tell it was an SBR, but couldnt see if it was auto or not.
Yup, I know the rider, used to be a neighbor.
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  #42  
Old 03-02-2013, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BigStiCK View Post

Why?
As a cop, I'm all for an effective means to increase firepower. That 4.6mm round will penetrate body armor. Is similar in capability to .223/5.56.

Motor Officers dont have a whole lotta room to carry a battle rifle. The MP7 can fit in a Motorcycle saddlebag/ remain out of view of the public, be protected from the elements, but still be put into service at a moments notice.

Why is that a bad thing?
the question still remains, if you are carrying an assault weapon, who are you at war with?
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  #43  
Old 03-02-2013, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by KON5T View Post
the question still remains, if you are carrying an assault weapon, who are you at war with?
Who's ever shootin' at you.

DUH.

She wasn't waving that thing around because she was direcing traffic.
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  #44  
Old 03-02-2013, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dantedamean View Post
Weapons of war don't belong on our streets. I wonder who he is at war with?
Okay... Tell that to every gang member, Mexican mafia/cartel. Tell that to the thugs and cholos running around with ak47 and full auto AR with 30+ round clips. They just don't walk into there local gun shop and pick these up. One day the scum bags will try to take over your streets, and the only thing you will have is a o/u to fire 2 warning shots. If they won't give up their guns I ain't giving up mine.
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  #45  
Old 03-04-2013, 7:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
Who's ever shootin' at you.

DUH.

She wasn't waving that thing around because she was direcing traffic.
You clearly didn't understand the sarcasm of my comment, so let me translate.

DIFI and the other opinionated useless politician friends have been going on at length about us not needing more than 10 rounds because are not at war. Ergo, if the police need more than 10 rounds they must be at war. The question is who with?

Quod erat demonstrandum

DUH, Get it now?
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  #46  
Old 03-04-2013, 8:02 AM
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Leo are at war with various cartels, etc.

You as a law abiding 2a citizen don't have to deal with cartels.

I'm a strong supporter of 2a and all the other amendments. But also LEO'S have another element they deal with which we do not! Give em a break. So we don't have to deal with those criminal bastards ....
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  #47  
Old 03-04-2013, 8:03 AM
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And of u don't know what a CARTEL is do a google search on cartel killings.

More each month than the current wars in IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN.
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  #48  
Old 03-04-2013, 8:05 AM
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I have seen Upland PD with HK smg's on their bikes.
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  #49  
Old 03-04-2013, 8:07 AM
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Originally Posted by joash View Post
I have seen Upland PD with HK smg's on their bikes.
Good! So the bad folks they kill are not ones we as the public need to deal with.
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  #50  
Old 03-04-2013, 8:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Matt View Post
And of u don't know what a CARTEL is do a google search on cartel killings.

More each month than the current wars in IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN.
I assume that was some weak attempt at being witty? Nice one!
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  #51  
Old 03-04-2013, 8:09 AM
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Kon.
The threat currently is the cartel.
Wasn't trying to be witty. It's just the truth brother. They are an expanding threat.
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  #52  
Old 03-04-2013, 8:28 AM
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Anyone who has used a SMG or pistol caliber carbine can tell you how much easier it is to quickly get hits on target compared to a pistol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
complete fail there....who ever trained her needs their cert pulled. That weapon has no business in her duties... she would be better off carrying a M82...
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  #53  
Old 03-04-2013, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Matt View Post
Kon.
The threat currently is the cartel.
Wasn't trying to be witty. It's just the truth brother. They are an expanding threat.
I wonder if we will start seeing decapitated heads hanging off the 405 freeway someday.
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  #54  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:35 AM
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Santa Clara PD has them too. Saw one on the back of a SCPD motorcycle last month.
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  #55  
Old 03-05-2013, 5:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Matt View Post
Leo are at war with various cartels, etc.

You as a law abiding 2a citizen don't have to deal with cartels.

I'm a strong supporter of 2a and all the other amendments. But also LEO'S have another element they deal with which we do not! Give em a break. So we don't have to deal with those criminal bastards ....
We have the right to self defense from the same threat as LEO... so we, UNDER the 2nd A, are allowed to use the same arms as they do. If you think LEO are at war you have no idea who LEO are. You have bought into the militarization of the Police and now consider them beyond the law... You need to educate yourself a little more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Matt View Post
Kon.
The threat currently is the cartel.
Wasn't trying to be witty. It's just the truth brother. They are an expanding threat.
Yes they are one threat ALL PEOPLE FACE... CIVILIANS MORE THEN LEO.

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Originally Posted by joash View Post
Anyone who has used a SMG or pistol caliber carbine can tell you how much easier it is to quickly get hits on target compared to a pistol.
Correct and as a sidearm they are superior to a pistol which is why they are used as sidearms by Israeli LEO. We do not equip them that way. SMGs are not a proper transitional firearm from a pistol to longarm. Its a baby step that is not needed in that way. If she is in a situation requiring more power then a pistol sidearm, she needs a SBR, not an SMG.
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  #56  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:03 AM
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Just to make my last post 100% clear... LEO are NOT at war. They are HIRED to protect and serve the public. They go after criminals who don't want to be arrested. Civilians are the prey item if these criminals and both LEO and civilian are under the same threat. Civilians are at a higher risk since we must wait for help and are not allowed ( under the current laws) to properly defend ourselves.
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  #57  
Old 03-05-2013, 6:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KON5T View Post
the question still remains, if you are carrying an assault weapon, who are you at war with?
The police are at war with you. Why do you think the politicians cater to the unions. Because they are the strong arm of the political machine. As those in power, and more so those who pull their strings, turn the screws of tyranny ever tighter, they need a para military organization to carry out increasingly questionable acts to maintain compliance. Non hesitation targets of children, armored mine resistant vehicles, sub machine guns and assault rifles, and the power to detain you indefinitely. The cops will mow you and your family down without question before they risk that golden parachute retirement system they got going on. The shooting of the two paper ladies in the Dorner manhunt is a prime example. I'll tell you what, I fear the police more than any gang banger or drug cartel.
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  #58  
Old 03-05-2013, 7:34 AM
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Just saw some tac'd out AR free float rail magpul stock everything on a LEO
Motorcycle
Torrance PD got an upgrade I guess
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  #59  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:13 AM
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Not sure if they still have them, but Brea PD had HK G36's on their motor units.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
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  #60  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:42 AM
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Good thread and I learned a lot from the debate.. Used my google skills...

That HK MP7 machine pistol uses a 4.6mm round that is exclusive (so far) to that weapon. Must be hard to find reloading components.....

It looks nice but I'am not sure it's a good choice in some situations.
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  #61  
Old 03-05-2013, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compulsivegunbuyer View Post
The police are at war with you. Why do you think the politicians cater to the unions. Because they are the strong arm of the political machine. As those in power, and more so those who pull their strings, turn the screws of tyranny ever tighter, they need a para military organization to carry out increasingly questionable acts to maintain compliance. Non hesitation targets of children, armored mine resistant vehicles, sub machine guns and assault rifles, and the power to detain you indefinitely. The cops will mow you and your family down without question before they risk that golden parachute retirement system they got going on. The shooting of the two paper ladies in the Dorner manhunt is a prime example. I'll tell you what, I fear the police more than any gang banger or drug cartel.
yeah that was pretty much my point. Scary but true. This was particularly brought home during the Anaheim riot last year.

I also wonder why the cops need this: http://patdollard.com/2013/02/dhs-mrap-combat-vehicle/, specifically 2700 of them
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  #62  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RobGR View Post
Per my buddy at Echo Arms, spotted this the other day during lunch in Tustin/Irvine, motorcycle LEO with an AR15 or M16 as they couldn't tell if it had a fun button.



Now I have seen shotguns, but never this. Interesting enough to share to say the least and packing some serious heat for traffic enforcement in Tustin.
They need to improve that locked container. This one screams "Free Carry Handle!"
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  #63  
Old 03-05-2013, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiggy View Post
They need to improve that locked container. This one screams "Free Carry Handle!"
eff the carry handle, if flashlight on the front is a surfire, that thing is worth hundreds.

i saw a similar setup on a bike that cruzed by me on the freeway today. Only caught a glimpse, but the rifle looked incredibly small. Like, SBR small.
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  #64  
Old 03-06-2013, 9:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
That firearm has a specific purpose and its not what she is using it for. A carbine can be carried just as easily and has a greater capability then that weapon. Its a foolish weapon for her to carry.

That firearm/weapon has almost NO advantage over a 5.56 or 7.62 carbine and doesnt have any similar capability as you state. If you think that then you should have no problem with her carrying a M82A1 then... as I first said. Doesn't a 50 cal have the power to defeat body armor...... isnt the M82A1 semiauto just like an AR15...

Whats the effective range of that weapon? Can she hit a target 100 yards away who is taking cover? Whats the accuracy of that weapon past 100 yards? Does that weapon give her an advantage over a threat who is using a carbine at a range greater then 50 yards...say 250 yards away behind a car...NO! Is her job to clear rooms? She has nearly no chance of hitting a target that far and the threat has a greater chance to hit her since she has to expose herself to the threat with any firearm...this is why she is deploying a primary weapon system above a sidearm.... and thats her choice

Please explain the situation that she is in where that weapon is necessary AND is advisable over an AR15 carbine/SBR. This isnt Israel. Our LEO have specific requirements in their jobs and duties.

That weapon choice will get her killed in a situation where she needs to deploy a primary weapon system over a sidearm. Whoever trained her is a freaking idiot if she thinks that weapon system is acceptable. Its not her fault...its her departments trainer at fault.

She is canon-fodder with that firearm....she's a noise maker distracting the threat at best. If that weapon is useful, then her sidearm is aswell.

Sure it has a longer range and hits a bit harder then a sidearm...but its a baby step over a sidearm. Its specific use is for tight close quarters fighting inside a building, room by room clearing.

Actually it looks like she is directing traffic or something similar so that weapon would be perfect for what she is doing in that picture. Maybe she keeps it on board for those instances? Who knows if she uses it constantly. If she is performing "crowd control" that weapon is perfect.

I think for what she is doing in the picture its perfect.

I do agree with your entire post though but I would like to know more about the photo before I made such a statement.

EDIT: Now that I look at the picture again it looks like she is telling the person who is taking the picture to GET THE **** OUTTA HERE!! Lol
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  #65  
Old 03-06-2013, 9:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doheny View Post
Given the choice, would you rather have the rifle in the OP or what she has?:

What is the context of this picture, directing traffic at a stadium post baseball game or at a crime scene involving a bank robbery?

I think the compact and deployable choice of an MP7 makes more sense for a motorcycle officer, however, the unique caliber does not. I would also assume that any situation (hostage crisis, bank robbery) where the target is out to 100 yrds & beyond usually involves a designated department marksman with the appropriate firearm, a scoped rifle in 308. However, most police engagements that involve a firearm unfold rapidly and chaotically, close quarters, more commonly when answering calls with domestic disputes (?), so the necessity of an AR is unusual. Recent events would presumably favor of LEOs carrying ARs, however, look at how LEOs reacted to unconfirmed suspected vehicles! Zero accountability and restraint, they became just as much of a threat as the man (we all know who he was) who was threatening them. My point, I hope these guys and gals in uniform are being trained well. Spray and pray with overwhelming fire power (your best defense is superior offense) usually seems to be the instinctual reaction, contrary to training, in most LEO confrontations that involve firearms. What is the collateral damage that will result with ARs now being the go to PD firearm? Time will tell.

In San Diego a couple years back, LEO arrived on scene with ARs, two officers, two ARs, suspect was armed with a shotgun and the officers had been alerted that he had killed his neighbors after years of feuding. As I recall, they fired approx 30 rnds, mortally wounding the suspect. Do not recall how many actually hit the suspect, but there were no reports of innocent citizens being harmed. Feel free to correct my version of teh story, it was a while back, but I was impressed by the fact LEOs were deploying with ARs to domestics.

Feel free to educate me on LEO tactics and protocol, my assessment is merely assumption as opposed to actual field knowledge. Interesting subject, especially considering the current state of our Constitutional rights and the militarization of law enforcement agencies.
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  #66  
Old 03-06-2013, 9:42 AM
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Reread what dieselpower wrote and definitely agree with your points.

But I would still like to know where that picture was taken. Can't make out the department ID and location, name might be Philips though, ha.
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  #67  
Old 03-06-2013, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
complete fail there....who ever trained her needs their cert pulled. That weapon has no business in her duties... she would be better off carrying a M82...
I never realized you need to be slung with an mp7 to direct traffic....Police state anyone???...I wonder if terrorist are going to attack leo's after an incident while they're directing/controlling traffic.........Straight up abusive show of authority......Comes right back to police state and militarization of public servants.
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Old 03-06-2013, 2:38 PM
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I never realized you need to be slung with an mp7 to direct traffic....Police state anyone???...I wonder if terrorist are going to attack leo's after an incident while they're directing/controlling traffic.........Straight up abusive show of authority......Comes right back to police state and militarization of public servants.
Presume much? Holy crap!!! Directing traffic?! As far as you know she's telling the camera man to get to cover.

Educate yourself before you pop off, you won't look quite so foolish.

That photo was during an active shooter incident. The Cupertino Quarry shooting from a year or so ago. Shot 9 people, killing three. Shot someone else while carjacking them. He fled on foot into a neighborhood. It took nearly a day to locate him.


He used an "AR15, AK47, Glock 9mm and shotgun". They were searching for him in an urban setting. He clearly had no problem murdering people.

You still think the officers should still use nothing more than a sidearm?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupertino_quarry_shooting
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Old 03-06-2013, 2:39 PM
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Originally Posted by m98 View Post
....Police state......Straight up abusive show of authority...militarization of public servants.....


I think someone's jealous the lady cop has a better gun than him.

And you're sure she's directing traffic how? Maybe she's pointing that the shooter is that way. Or the CP is that way. Or officer X went that way or...

And even if she was directing traffic at a call for a man with a gun in the area, so what? Who's to say the bad guy won't pop out from behind the bushes directly near her. The guys below are directing traffic. No one questioned their need for their rifles.

It's amazing how many people can get worked up from one pic.

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Old 03-06-2013, 2:45 PM
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I think someone's jealous the lady cop has a better gun than him.
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Old 03-06-2013, 2:52 PM
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But I would still like to know where that picture was taken. Can't make out the department ID and location, name might be Philips though, ha.
Found the link. Its an AP photo.




http://lonestarvarsity.com/national-...y-shooter-dead

Quote:

A Sheriff's deputy tells bystanders to leave as she closes off a street in Sunnyvale, Calif., Thursday, Oct. 6, 2011 during the manhunt for Shareef Allman. A man matching the description of suspected gunman Shareef Allman was found and shot dead by law enforcement officers on Thursday. Shareef was the focus of a huge manhunt after an alleged shooting at a Cupertino cement plant early Wednesday morning where three people were killed and seven wounded.

(AP Photo/San Jose Mercury News, Gary Reyes)






There you go. And those of you with the mock outrage over the officer directing traffic with a sub gun just look like idiots.
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Old 03-06-2013, 2:59 PM
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Be bad *** if it was full auto and she just lit up the heels of the reporters as they ran...
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Old 03-06-2013, 3:33 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishJoe3 View Post
Found the link. Its an AP photo.


http://lonestarvarsity.com/national-...y-shooter-dead


There you go. And those of you with the mock outrage over the officer directing traffic with a sub gun just look like idiots.
Your Google-fu is strong, wise one.

The pic also ran in a thread after the shooting, but that was back in a less contenous time, before everyone got worked about about such things and folks were not so anti .gov and anti LEO.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=485714


.
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Old 03-06-2013, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishJoe3 View Post
Presume much? Holy crap!!! Directing traffic?! As far as you know she's telling the camera man to get to cover.

Educate yourself before you pop off, you won't look quite so foolish.

That photo was during an active shooter incident. The Cupertino Quarry shooting from a year or so ago. Shot 9 people, killing three. Shot someone else while carjacking them. He fled on foot into a neighborhood. It took nearly a day to locate him.


He used an "AR15, AK47, Glock 9mm and shotgun". They were searching for him in an urban setting. He clearly had no problem murdering people.

You still think the officers should still use nothing more than a sidearm?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupertino_quarry_shooting
If that is true I am 100% correct. She has no business with that firearm in her hands. Its clearly a poor choice someone made. There isn't one single duty she could be preforming that the deployment of a SMG validates.

Is she going room to room on an entry team wearing a wind breaker and cycle helmet?

Is she really standing outdoor parameter security...with an 4.6mm SMG?

I really don't care myself, I see guys using 12" wrenches for hammers all the time... that doesnt mean I am going to start issuing them to my roofing crew Like this Department did to her.

Cycle cops need SBRs, chambered in 7.62 or 5.56. They need sidearms just like any Officer.

Cop cars all need SBRs and SBSs in the trunk, as well as teddy bears, candy bars, med-kits and smoke grenades.

SWAT vans need SBRs, SBS, SMGs, unmanned drones, side looking radar, thermal imagining... ect.

If you guys don't understand the simplest form of load-out, I can offer my services at a price....
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  #75  
Old 03-09-2013, 12:32 PM
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joash joash is offline
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LEO's are too concerned with tactical mumbo jumbo and too poorly trained and attuned to simple crime fighting.
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  #76  
Old 03-09-2013, 2:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselpower View Post
If that is true I am 100% correct. She has no business with that firearm in her hands. Its clearly a poor choice someone made. There isn't one single duty she could be preforming that the deployment of a SMG validates.

Is she going room to room on an entry team wearing a wind breaker and cycle helmet?

Is she really standing outdoor parameter security...with an 4.6mm SMG?

I really don't care myself, I see guys using 12" wrenches for hammers all the time... that doesnt mean I am going to start issuing them to my roofing crew Like this Department did to her.

Cycle cops need SBRs, chambered in 7.62 or 5.56. They need sidearms just like any Officer.

Cop cars all need SBRs and SBSs in the trunk, as well as teddy bears, candy bars, med-kits and smoke grenades.

SWAT vans need SBRs, SBS, SMGs, unmanned drones, side looking radar, thermal imagining... ect.

If you guys don't understand the simplest form of load-out, I can offer my services at a price....
Classic, a roofer telling LEO's what type of firearm they should be equipped. with...
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  #77  
Old 04-20-2013, 2:20 PM
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Discrete carry ? Kind of a crappy pic but there was definitely an ad under that bag. Saw it at an earth day thing in Santa Barbara.

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  #78  
Old 04-20-2013, 7:36 PM
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first off.... law enforcement/military don't fall under the 10 and under mag rule or the bullet button rule.... second off cops have had ar15s since their induction.... nothing new
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  #79  
Old 04-20-2013, 9:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
Classic, a roofer telling LEO's what type of firearm they should be equipped. with...
classic... keep guessing there Watson.
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  #80  
Old 04-21-2013, 2:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoshnasi View Post
Biden would say the officer is under gunned now. Should go back to the shotgun.

lol.
I laugh at every reference to joe Biden's shotgun idea.

Anyway,

I saw a patrol officer on a bike in Burbank with a CTR and what I swear was a moe handguard.
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