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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #81  
Old 03-01-2013, 3:55 PM
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Awesome...tagged
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  #82  
Old 03-01-2013, 3:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
Do you already have your letter of determination from batf allowing you to mfg? If not then it is a felony to mfg for sale. Takes 2-6 months.
Have you even bothered to read this thread? The OP already addressed this.
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  #83  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:24 PM
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JohnnyBGood is correct. I've used a shop made vacuum press from the plans he linked to for years. Works fantastic using your home shop compressor.

I use mine with a 4'X6'
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  #84  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:29 PM
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JohnnyBGood is correct. I've used a shop made vacuum press from the plans he linked to for years. Joewoodworkers plans fantastic using your home shop compressor.

I use mine with a 4'X6' poly bag for veneer pressing but you could easily pull vacuum in a small box just as easily.

System is very inexpensive, reliable and safe. Thousands of us woodworkers use them.
You can also adjust the level of vacuum by turning the set screw on the Venturi. The plans show this.

Keep pressing forward. You'll nail this down!!
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  #85  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:38 PM
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This would make an epic .22lr pistol build.

If you decide to go into business and need an employee PM me for a resume.

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  #86  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:44 PM
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Awesome project Frosty!

Can you post a picture of the mold you made?

I'm very curious about the process you are using it looks very promising.
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  #87  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:51 PM
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I'll take one please.
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  #88  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:58 PM
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If this turns out to be strong enough for 5.56...

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  #89  
Old 03-01-2013, 4:59 PM
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This is awesome. Outstanding job Frosty!!
This is something id be interested in. We can get a group of people together, pitch in for materials and have a CG pouring party lol
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  #90  
Old 03-01-2013, 5:04 PM
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Would adding color make the lower weaker at all?

I really dig the clear though.

How does it hold up to cleaning products, like GunScrubber?
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  #91  
Old 03-01-2013, 5:13 PM
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Looks like people already though about using inserts for threaded parts, or metal bushing inserts for the pins.

Looks cool, how did you make the mold?

Clear AR? yes plz!
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  #92  
Old 03-01-2013, 5:24 PM
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This is awesome, I love seeing good old-fashioned American ingenuity in action!
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  #93  
Old 03-01-2013, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackReef View Post
So, basically - you can have plastic stock, buffer tube, lower receiver, grip, magazine, forend - but the upper/bcg/barrel/brake/lpk has to be made of some type of metal?

Im glad we are getting close to in-house made AR-15s. It sucks depending on others to get the parts we need.
LPK can be polymer as well. I have one. Might clone them, pending the success of this project.

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You are a badass.

Please keep up the good work.
Yes.

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Originally Posted by chillincody View Post
frosty far as the buffer tube threads go cant you just cast the tube installed permanetly? like make it a part of the lower un able to be removed ? then you wont have to worry bout threads right ?
Honestly, I probably could, but then I'd have to sacrifice a tube for every experimental build or break it out for each new one! That said, if I mold it in, it would probably keep tolerances tight and I could unscrew it after the resin cured.

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Originally Posted by G lock View Post
It would be nice if someone made a cavarms style lower
If someone lets me borrow one I'm willing to prospect it and try.

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Originally Posted by bomb_on_bus View Post
Would you be able to use the correct size washers or something similar for the trigger pins and take down pins?


Also you could have someone machine the buffer tube threads out of a hardened metal and then just use some sort of prong on the bottom portion of the threads to hold grip in the molding.

Tagged for genius and baddassssery.
Yeah I've been toying with the idea of washers/shims for the pins. Time will tell if that step will be necessary. I'm still working on a testable model in the current all polymer configuration. I'd be worried about mounting a threaded metal piece only because there is so little plastic there - it is the main break point for polymer lowers. Losing any material there in order to thread in a metal insert would be asking for trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
Do you already have your letter of determination from batf allowing you to mfg? If not then it is a felony to mfg for sale. Takes 2-6 months.
OK, edgerly779 doesn't get one. Just kidding. I'm not manufacturing anything for sale. If anything I'll be selling my time, resin, and access to a very specifically shaped cavity.

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Originally Posted by OffGrid View Post
Frosty, how much vacuum are we talking?

I am in Paso and would be willing to help out or pitch in some $$.
This is ridiculous, I lived in SLO for 6 years, I moved to the bay area in January for work, and suddenly all you SLO CGers come out of the woodwork offering to help! Sadly I'm full time bay area now, except the occasional visit. If you'd like, I can keep you posted on my trips down, but you may have to remind me.
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  #94  
Old 03-01-2013, 5:34 PM
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Also interested keep us posted, and keep up the good work!
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  #95  
Old 03-01-2013, 5:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCZ View Post
This would make an epic .22lr pistol build.

If you decide to go into business and need an employee PM me for a resume.

OK, my only requirement for employment is an unquestioning ignorance of labor laws and minimum wage requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas1190 View Post
This is awesome. Outstanding job Frosty!!
This is something id be interested in. We can get a group of people together, pitch in for materials and have a CG pouring party lol
The problem with that is that the resin takes a while to cure to the point of being removable from the mold. I'd have to have a lot of molds (very expensive to make) to throw a pouring "party". I'll likely only have one functioning mold for a while. I'll let you know where the line starts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luchador768 View Post
Would adding color make the lower weaker at all?

I really dig the clear though.

How does it hold up to cleaning products, like GunScrubber?
Already have some black die, just didn't want to waste it on this slop job. I doubt I could effectively match any other colors like FDE, but who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan in SD View Post
Looks like people already though about using inserts for threaded parts, or metal bushing inserts for the pins.

Looks cool, how did you make the mold?

Clear AR? yes plz!
Mold is a two part room temperature vulcanizing silicone. It's damned expensive. I can probably throw some pics up this weekend for those interested, but I've got to allot my limited spare time wisely.
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  #96  
Old 03-01-2013, 6:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
I'll make my gun whatever damn color I please.
Guess this is what I get for trying to keep someone legal.
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  #97  
Old 03-01-2013, 6:46 PM
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Very interesting and interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
OK, edgerly779 doesn't get one. Just kidding. I'm not manufacturing anything for sale. If anything I'll be selling my time, resin, and access to a very specifically shaped cavity.
Sounds like you're thinking of becoming a pimp.
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  #98  
Old 03-01-2013, 8:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
Found some vacuum pumps on CL, might just build my own vacuum chamber from home depot goodies this weekend. Back to work!
That's the way to do it. You don't need nothin' fancy. One of my first jobs was doing open mold casting and compression molding of polymers. We did a pretty decent volume, and our only vacuum chamber was cobbled together from what I'm pretty sure was an old stock pot, and a 1" or so thick disk of clear acrylic lined with a silicone gasket for a lid. The lid had a hole drilled into the top and a vacuum gauge threaded into it using 1/4" or 3/8" copper pipe. The setup gave out once during my 3 year tenure at the job when I smacked the lid just a little too hard with a deadblow to keep some material from bubbling over as it was degassing. All in all, I'd call that pretty sturdy for the industrial casting version of a duct tape and baling wire solution.

I think a vacuum pump can be had on ebay for $150 or so. Altogether I'm thinking you may be looking at a $250 + 1 afternoon investment?

Last edited by Vita Brevis; 03-01-2013 at 8:21 PM..
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  #99  
Old 03-01-2013, 8:35 PM
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this...is...so...much...win...
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  #100  
Old 03-01-2013, 8:52 PM
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This is insane! Nice job, man!

Hey, I recall the 3d printed lower cracking at the buffer tube and not losing the threading. Is the weakness in the structure itself or in the threads? If it's in the structure, instead of a threaded insert, could you leave room around the the outside for a small section of steel pipe as reinforcement but leave the resin threading? I don't have a lower currently to look at, so that may be from left field...

Anyway, great job and looking forward to hearing more!
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  #101  
Old 03-01-2013, 8:53 PM
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i worked in and still have many contacts in the vacuum industry. im sure i could find a decent second hand pump. i can get ahold all parts needed for a vacuum chamber for it. and have a friend in the vaccum industry that owns his own machine shop. pm me if you have questions id would be glad to help
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  #102  
Old 03-01-2013, 9:01 PM
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Nice! Tagged for updates.
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  #103  
Old 03-01-2013, 9:05 PM
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Bravo! Good job!
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  #104  
Old 03-01-2013, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vliberatore View Post
Guess this is what I get for trying to keep someone legal.
If i'm not mistaken, the law states that NON-firearms must be in clear, orange or identifiable neon colors. I don't believe there is a law that states that firearms MAY NOT be those things.

And if there is, please state the PC.

Closest thing i can find is below:
"CA Penal Code:12020.3. Any person who, for commercial purposes, purchases, sells, manufacturers, ships, transports, distributes, or receives a firearm, where the coloration of the entire exterior surface of the firearm is bright orange or bright green, either singly, in combination, or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, is liable for a civil fine in an action brought by the city attorney of the city or the district attorney for the county of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000)."

and that was further discussed in http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=556556

I am not a lawyer, the above is simple google-fu.
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  #105  
Old 03-01-2013, 9:11 PM
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If you end up running into a problem with the buffer tube area there is an option. Instead of a threaded insert, make the thread and ring, some structure and rear take down area from 6061 or 7075 and mold around it. Explore options for the most affordable machined approach. A chemlok primer, of some flavor, should make a fairly good bond with an aggressive bead blast but, you may need to change out the resin in favor of one that will work with a primer/adhesive.
Obviously, this drives the cost up enormously in favor of reliability.....if needed.
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  #106  
Old 03-01-2013, 9:23 PM
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Frosty is that lower real?

That is soooooooooooo f ****ing awesome!

Wow, you rock.
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  #107  
Old 03-01-2013, 9:30 PM
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cool stuff!
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  #108  
Old 03-01-2013, 9:41 PM
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It seems that this is the most common critical point where lowers break:


Gonna post up this one for good measure as well:





I don't know much about these plastic technologies, but it seems like the ticket is to find a way to reinforce and beef up these points.

And thanks for sharing, OP. This is really neat.
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  #109  
Old 03-01-2013, 9:52 PM
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is the resin fiber reinforced ?

may cost more but a carbon fiber lower would be soooo Coooool.
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  #110  
Old 03-01-2013, 10:09 PM
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Why dont you helicoil the buffer threads if your doubting their strength? A set of stainless threads would buff things up a lot

Sent from my DROID RAZR

Last edited by Aspp; 03-01-2013 at 10:20 PM..
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  #111  
Old 03-02-2013, 4:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtMerc View Post
If i'm not mistaken, the law states that NON-firearms must be in clear, orange or identifiable neon colors. I don't believe there is a law that states that firearms MAY NOT be those things.

And if there is, please state the PC.

Closest thing i can find is below:
"CA Penal Code:12020.3. Any person who, for commercial purposes, purchases, sells, manufacturers, ships, transports, distributes, or receives a firearm, where the coloration of the entire exterior surface of the firearm is bright orange or bright green, either singly, in combination, or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, is liable for a civil fine in an action brought by the city attorney of the city or the district attorney for the county of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000)."

and that was further discussed in http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=556556

I am not a lawyer, the above is simple google-fu.
The other part of that PC mentions firearms that aren't immediately recognizable as firearms. Currently only toy guns are clear so I could see this being an issue. It be somewhat a stretch since there would be a non-clear upper attached to it, but it's something that should be considered since penalty is severe.
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  #112  
Old 03-02-2013, 5:33 AM
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The CAV Arms guys have solved the issue of buffer tube threads. Is there any reason this wouldn't be better?

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  #113  
Old 03-02-2013, 8:00 AM
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^^^ I think the problem would be - trying to suit everyone... a standard A2 stock would be a deal killer for me... I'm too used to Magpul MOE fixed stock (I prefer the size, shape, angle - and QD sling adapter is a must):

*not my gun btw

I would also prefer standard grip with finger groove and/or flared bottom (so a kydex fin can't be easily slid off)

I think these reasons alone would be the problem - because as many people that would buy one would have as many other preferences.
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  #114  
Old 03-02-2013, 9:57 AM
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I'll take one of these, and a clear AK too!
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  #115  
Old 03-02-2013, 10:32 AM
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Totally rad.

Best of success, looking forward to further developments.

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  #116  
Old 03-02-2013, 12:05 PM
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Cool.. Does it work?
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  #117  
Old 03-02-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
I chose this polymer very specifically for its extraordinary strength and resistance to cracking and deformation. I poured a coupe samples of it and smashed them with a hammer repeatedly with no visible damage. When I switched to the claw end I was able to mar the surface, and nothing more. I'm confident this stuff will stand the test of time easily.

Haven't shot it, just pulled it out of the mold today. This one is getting destroyed for strength testing. I'm going to make a better quality one to test with an upper at the range.
Take it to the range before you say it'll hold up. There is a lot of force on the buffer tube threads when firing live ammo.
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  #118  
Old 03-02-2013, 1:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rojocorsa View Post
It seems that this is the most common critical point where lowers break:

Yes but on this one, I would be more skeptical; Vulcan and Hesse items tend to break even when made from any other material, let alone their foray into plastic.

I wouldn't expect Vulcan to do much R&D at all and just launch into making lowers from any old plastic with an injection molding process. Wouldn't surprise me if they used plastic soda bottles they stole from recycling bins around town.
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What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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  #119  
Old 03-02-2013, 1:37 PM
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In any case, the ingenuity and amazing craftsmanship of various Calgunners never ceases to amaze. This is excellent work. Nicely done. Even if it were to fail in testing, that is just part of the process to get to where it doesn't.

This is a BIG first step and a well executed one at that. Good show Frosty!
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What compelling interest has any level of government in knowing what guns are owned by civilians? (Those owned by government should be inventoried and tracked, for exactly the same reasons computers and desks and chairs are tracked: responsible care of public property.)

If some level of government had that information, what would they do with it? How would having that info benefit public safety? How would it benefit law enforcement?
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Old 03-02-2013, 1:53 PM
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Xingu Xingu is offline
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Nice. Tagged for updates
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If anything I'll be selling my time, resin, and access to a very specifically shaped cavity.

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I have read that...Serioulsy....check it out online.
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