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View Poll Results: Which material is acceptable for the "80%" KTO Sig P22x(choose ALL that apply)
6061-T6 Aluminum @ $250 11 64.71%
Steel @ $300 10 58.82%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 02-12-2013, 10:04 AM
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Totals updated in OP, draft confirmation letter awaiting MRA's approval. Will send to all GB members once he signs off.
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  #122  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:49 PM
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I have a problem being in san diego i dont know how i will machine it... unless there is a way to machine it down here it wont happen for me.
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  #123  
Old 02-12-2013, 2:03 PM
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Confirmation PMs sent.
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  #124  
Old 02-12-2013, 2:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainShooter View Post
I spoke to Rick regarding the jig last week. He did say that he would make the jig a combo for $15 more than the price of the 1911 jig. Hopefully this gb will happen. But dang, all these group buys are wiping me out! I need to find more work to pay for it all.


Rick is a supper good guy. And his work is top notch.
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  #125  
Old 02-12-2013, 3:06 PM
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Okay got pm but now a little confused. In the PM it is listed as a KTsig228/229

The thread here says 226/228/229.

Reading the various posts, it was stated that the frame is full size 226 and if you wanted to you can make 228/229 but as comes you would not need to do anything to make it 226.

I purchased parts and barrel for 226.

Any clarification available?

If I have internals, slide and barrel for 226 is this going to work still, and which mags will fit?

Bu
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  #126  
Old 02-12-2013, 8:07 PM
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I'd like clarification on this as well. I'm buying a p226 parts gun that I will be transferring everything over from
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  #127  
Old 02-13-2013, 6:16 AM
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Put me down for 2 frames & 1 jig.

Pls pm me the conf letter (assuming it will have exact price & payment information so funds can be sent).
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  #128  
Old 02-13-2013, 1:02 PM
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So I would like see about doing a build party... I don't mind driving a ways if we could all go in on a jig, or if there was a cnc shop who wanted to take us in for a night.

Anyone else have an interest in this say from San Luis Obispo down to north LA?
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  #129  
Old 02-14-2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbfox View Post
Okay got pm but now a little confused. In the PM it is listed as a KTsig228/229

The thread here says 226/228/229.

Reading the various posts, it was stated that the frame is full size 226 and if you wanted to you can make 228 & 229 but as comes you would not need to do anything to make it 226.

I purchased parts and barrel for 226.

Any clarification available?

If I have internals, slide and barrel for 226 is this going to work still, and which mags will fit?

Bu
I am re-researching this topic. I am sorry but I don't have a definitive answer at the moment.
As you are probably aware, the external dimensions of the P226 are larger than the P228 & 229. The dustcover and grip are longer, the takedown hole is in a different location, and while many of the internal parts are compatible, the barrel and slide of a P226 will not fit on a stock P228 without modification of one or both.
Previous KTO Sig paperweights (in the 2000-2004-ish era) were designed w/ only the P228 platform in mind. Some folks managed to use P226 parts on them and do "hybrid" builds (one guy even called his a "P227" ). But in general doing so meant a lot more design/fitting/machining work.
When the idea for this GB came up last April or so, there was talk of making the new version of the paperweight so that it could be compatible with P226/228/229 parts. Richard felt he had come up with a design that would allow this (as you described), and that was what we have been assuming all along. But your concerns are valid, and none of us have actually seen the new design, let alone an actual paperweight. We do know he has gotten BATFE declaration for the sample he submitted. If he has another on hand, we can ask for pictures and such. If not, we may have only drawings.

The long time involved in building interest for this GB resulted in a bit of a rush to proceed on my part, once it appeared we had reached the minimum order needed. The discussions of the design and build particulars were spread out over several threads and about a year. But it is important that we get this resolved before any $$ changes hands. Everyone needs to know exactly what they are buying, what they can expect to build from it, what to expect in terms of the operations needed for their desired build, and what parts will be compatible. I will work on collecting that information, and if confirmation and payment deadlines need to be extended, we can do so.

As an aside, "opt outs" are keeping pace with confirmations at this point. Most folks opting out mention financial reasons, rather than not wanting to participate, if that matters to anyone. In any event I'll update totals soon, and hopefully we will still be well above our minimum order when everyone has responded, but I'm not at all certain that will be the case.
Stand by, folks.
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  #130  
Old 02-14-2013, 1:58 PM
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Thanks and I will stand by for info. Definitely still interested, I read on the other thread a post you had where you did state as above that as it comes it is fitted for 226 but could be made to 228/229 by shortening the dust cover and grip.

I hope the 226 design is a go as I have purchased a real nice west German 226 slide, and locking block, both made originally for 9mm and ponied up the $for a 9mm barsto barrel for 226.
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  #131  
Old 02-15-2013, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
I am re-researching this topic. I am sorry but I don't have a definitive answer at the moment.
As you are probably aware, the external dimensions of the P226 are larger than the P228 & 229. The dustcover and grip are longer, the takedown hole is in a different location, and while many of the internal parts are compatible, the barrel and slide of a P226 will not fit on a stock P228 without modification of one or both.
Previous KTO Sig paperweights (in the 2000-2004-ish era) were designed w/ only the P228 platform in mind. Some folks managed to use P226 parts on them and do "hybrid" builds (one guy even called his a "P227" ). But in general doing so meant a lot more design/fitting/machining work.
When the idea for this GB came up last April or so, there was talk of making the new version of the paperweight so that it could be compatible with P226/228/229 parts. Richard felt he had come up with a design that would allow this (as you described), and that was what we have been assuming all along. But your concerns are valid, and none of us have actually seen the new design, let alone an actual paperweight. We do know he has gotten BATFE declaration for the sample he submitted. If he has another on hand, we can ask for pictures and such. If not, we may have only drawings.

The long time involved in building interest for this GB resulted in a bit of a rush to proceed on my part, once it appeared we had reached the minimum order needed. The discussions of the design and build particulars were spread out over several threads and about a year. But it is important that we get this resolved before any $$ changes hands. Everyone needs to know exactly what they are buying, what they can expect to build from it, what to expect in terms of the operations needed for their desired build, and what parts will be compatible. I will work on collecting that information, and if confirmation and payment deadlines need to be extended, we can do so.

As an aside, "opt outs" are keeping pace with confirmations at this point. Most folks opting out mention financial reasons, rather than not wanting to participate, if that matters to anyone. In any event I'll update totals soon, and hopefully we will still be well above our minimum order when everyone has responded, but I'm not at all certain that will be the case.
Stand by, folks.
Thanks for the info and commitment to doing this right. I have not confirmed, but I'm definitely not out yet. I had my mind set on a 226 in .40. It would also be great if people who are planning build parties or just access to manual or cnc mills to post up. Ponying up $300 is not the problem, having a $300 paper weight without ever finding a way to finish it is.
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  #132  
Old 02-15-2013, 6:24 PM
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So is this frame going to be the smaller one for P229 or the larger for P226?
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  #133  
Old 02-15-2013, 7:27 PM
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Goober just posted a lengthy and thoughtful message that he is checking on details and will provide that info.
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  #134  
Old 02-17-2013, 8:03 PM
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Any word yet on whether or not we'll be able to build p226's?


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  #135  
Old 02-19-2013, 7:56 AM
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I just wanted to pop in here to say hello to the group. If this goes through Goober and I will be working on it just like the one we did before.
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  #136  
Old 02-19-2013, 9:27 PM
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I'm in if it's for a 226. I'm also willing to arrange some kind of build party to run the operation on the mill.
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  #137  
Old 02-19-2013, 9:59 PM
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Sorry for the lack of comms recently, folks. Replies to the confirmation PM are coming in very slowly, with less than half responding so far. This, together with the number of opt-outs, means we are still well below the minimum order required. As such, our timeline for payment to MRA and placing the order will probably shift a week or more.
On the 226 question, Rick has confirmed that his design will allow one to build a full-size P226 as-is, or a P228/229, which will require removing some material from the dustcover and grip. Takedown & trigger hole positions differ between the two as well, so those will be left un-drilled. Rails will have to be cut (same on all models).
More later as I know it. Stand by.
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  #138  
Old 02-19-2013, 11:49 PM
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is there going to be a build party for this ?


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  #139  
Old 02-20-2013, 1:22 AM
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If there is a build party for this one I would be interested.
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  #140  
Old 02-20-2013, 3:26 AM
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Awesome news and PM inbound
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  #141  
Old 02-22-2013, 3:39 AM
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Where can we get slides and parts for these?

Apparently Sig won't sell slides. Been watching gunbroker, ebay, forums... nada.

If its going to be a huge pain to get a slide and parts, I might just back out and do another 1911.
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  #142  
Old 02-22-2013, 3:55 AM
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Sig sells slides. They are called Caliber X-Change kits. They are a finished top end, which may or may not require fitting. They include a full top half: slide, barrel, firing pin, firing pin safety, sights, extractor...

In the case of an 80%, fitting will be needed as I read (above) that these 80%s won't have slide rails at all.
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  #143  
Old 02-23-2013, 8:35 PM
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So hows it going fellas (and any ladies) interested parties getting those confirmation pm or emails out to goober?
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  #144  
Old 02-23-2013, 9:42 PM
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If someone can organize a build party, I'd be in.
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  #145  
Old 02-23-2013, 10:29 PM
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What's going on w/ this? When is money due? Any chance of switch to alum to get down price? 2 for $600 shipped sounds like a good deal.
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  #146  
Old 02-23-2013, 10:52 PM
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To those who have responded to the confirmation PM:
Thank you for your response.
If you opted out you should not receive any more PMs related to this GB.
If you opted in, thank you for your participation and please stand by. With only ~50% of the original list of interested parties responding so far, and only a portion of them confirming their commitments, we are currently short of the 100 unit minimum order for this GB.
Responses are still coming in. New potential GB members continue to express interest. But until we have commitments and agreement to terms from enough members to fulfill our minimum order, there will be no collection of funds.
I've seen plenty of GB's go sideways b/c they weren't carefully managed. This will not be one of those, if I have anything to say about it.
At this point whether the GB happens or not is still unsure. I simply don't have the bandwidth to chase after the folks that have not responded to the confirmation PM, so I have been just waiting for the replies to come in. But we are probably < 50% responses at this point, well after the original planned deadline for responding. And as for total frame order commitments, we are way short of 100.
So that's where we are. Sorry I don't have better news.
More info as I have it. Please hang in there if you're interested in seeing this happen.
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  #147  
Old 02-24-2013, 7:04 AM
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Well I am still in. I saw (I think it was you) on a couple other forums. Any interest in cross posts or combining? I am not sure on your organizational desire. (I know that would prob be a huge PITA)
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  #148  
Old 02-27-2013, 8:36 AM
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Goober - By chance if KTO happen to mention whether or not this "paperweight" would be produced & offered on their site, regardless of the outcome of this GB?
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  #149  
Old 02-27-2013, 6:15 PM
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My guess he probably wouldn't even tool up if buy doesn't go through
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  #150  
Old 02-27-2013, 6:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintless View Post
Goober - By chance if KTO happen to mention whether or not this "paperweight" would be produced & offered on their site, regardless of the outcome of this GB?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbfox View Post
My guess he probably wouldn't even tool up if buy doesn't go through
Mrbfox is correct. This GB (or something like it) is the motivation for Rick to go back into production if his Sig paperweights (albeit w/ an updated version).
He may do it without the GB, but has said he doesn't plan on it.
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  #151  
Old 02-28-2013, 8:09 AM
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That's why folks need to get those confirmations in.
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  #152  
Old 02-28-2013, 9:48 AM
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Interested provided parts kits are still available when this does happen. I just can't bring myself to either buy the frame/parts without the other. I spent way too much on parts to finish my 1911 now that the builders kits aren't available.
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  #153  
Old 02-28-2013, 3:42 PM
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Caliber xchange kits are the easiest for bulk parts. The rest check out gunbroker, also brownells has most parts
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  #154  
Old 03-01-2013, 10:45 PM
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I am interested if more ppl don't confirm w/ the GB coordinator.
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  #155  
Old 03-02-2013, 1:56 AM
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Please put me down for 1 paperweight
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  #156  
Old 03-02-2013, 7:02 AM
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Will update current count of confirmations and send confirmation PMs to new interested parties today.
If you've posted here or PMed that you want in on the GB, watch your Inbox.
And stand by for updated status in this thread.
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  #157  
Old 03-02-2013, 8:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew222 View Post
Interested provided parts kits are still available when this does happen. I just can't bring myself to either buy the frame/parts without the other. I spent way too much on parts to finish my 1911 now that the builders kits aren't available.
I just ordered a dlask p228 parts kit so now I NEED a frame. Change me to a definite please
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  #158  
Old 03-02-2013, 11:46 AM
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Exclamation UPDATE

Confirmation PMs sent to new interested parties. If you have expressed interest here or in PM (not including those that said "If there is a build party, I would be interested", or similar) and did not receive a confirmation PM, let me know.

Here's where we stand:
  • 88 members have expressed interest since the start of this proposed GB last year, for a total of between 124 and 145 frames.
  • Of those 88 members, so far only 36 have responded to the confirmation PM, with an equal number (18) opting in & out, for a current total of only 36 frames.
  • Most of the opt-outs have been folks that originally said they would want 1-2 frames.
  • Some of the opt-ins have increased their commitment by 1 or more frames in the interest of helping us reach our minimum.
  • At this point, if every unconfirmed "interested" member opts in & confirms for the number of frames they said they would buy, we will have between 102 and 119 frames.

Soon I will send a nag confirmation request to those that have not responded. But if folks don't answer with an opt-in, or a whole bunch of new folks that are really serious about making this GB happen don't sign on, we're not going to make it. Sorry but that's the reality of it. I've spent a good deal of effort trying to get this thing rolling and don't have much bandwidth to beat the drum all over several forums and keep track of all the folks that say they want in only to disappear or bail out when the time comes to actually make the deal. I know that the very long time frame of this GB hasn't helped at all in that respect, but it is what it is.
Regarding timelines, the opt-in deadline has been extended to March 17th, with the payment deadline also pushed to March 31st, with the latter date only enforced if the minimum order has been reached by the former date.
Those of you that have asked about shipping costs of jigs, that is still being worked out. They are large and heavy and shipping from KTO to MRA will probably be a bit high at ~$13/ea, but from MRA to the end user jigs and frames can probably be shipped together for some savings. But none of that matters until we get to at least 100 frames.
Please continue to stand by, and thank you for your patience. I have 3 parts kits of my own that need frames, so I'm at least as interested in making this thing fly as any of you.
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  #159  
Old 03-03-2013, 10:20 AM
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80% frame- $317 shipped
Dlaskarms.com p228 complete (minus frame & baseplate) parts kit- $214.50 shipped
$531.50 for a fun project and $ saved vs. buying a new one, they start at$900-p226 and $950-p229 at my closest gun shop.
There is big interest in 80%'s right now if being sold out everywhere says anything. The sig sauer is a great platform to work with. Someone should post some pics of some sig's to get the juices flowing again (I'm better with tools than computers)

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Old 03-03-2013, 10:31 AM
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goober goober is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew222 View Post
80% frame- $317 shipped
Dlask.com p228 complete (minus frame & baseplate) parts kit- $214.50 shipped
$531.50 for a fun project and $ saved vs. buying a new one, they start at$900-p226 and $950-p229 at my closest gun shop.
There is big interest in 80%'s right now if being sold out everywhere says anything. The sig sauer is a great platform to work with. Someone should post some pics of some sig's to get the juices flowing again (I'm better with tools than computers)
hey, they just added those last month! good find!
they're on clearance folks, get 'em while you can
thats Dlaskarms.com btw.
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