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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #161  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:40 PM
Markinsac Markinsac is offline
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According to the Leginfo site, the law as amended would be:

(1) A semiautomatic, rimfire or centerfire rifle that has does not have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept 10 rounds or fewer.

. . . .

(2) “Fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RMP91 View Post
So, according to this new bill,

since my old Springfield-Stevens Model 87-A with a tube-fed magazine which can accept up to 15 (Pre-ban BTW) rounds of .22 LR, .22 Short and .22 Long is an "assault weapon"...
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  #162  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:42 PM
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  #163  
Old 02-22-2013, 1:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Markinsac View Post
(2) “Fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.
I can remove the 6 rd tubular mag from my Marlin model 1893 without disassembling the action so I guess that is a removable magazine

edit: on second thought, how many "magazines" of any type require you to disassemble the action in order to remove them? My Winchester model 70 bolt action can have the floorplate and spring removed without disassembling the action...I know this wouldnt make either of those guns "assault weapons" but it definitely speaks to the ness of the definition

Last edited by Hoooper; 02-22-2013 at 1:55 PM..
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  #164  
Old 02-22-2013, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kbenson View Post
Seems the "gov" is just looking for ways to price us out of ownership.

They tried this with tobacco tax + restrictions, and it really took a toll on the smokers (although many people still smoke-not as much as pretax/restrictions)

Already discussion of gun insurance and now these extra fees

I found this piece interesting-

(c) The department may charge a fee in an amount sufficient to reimburse the department for the reasonable costs of maintaining the Firearm Ownership Record program, but in no case more than nineteen dollars ($19) per transaction to process the Firearm Ownership Record. After the department establishes the fee amount, the department may adjust the fee amount annually as necessary to cover the reasonable costs of administering the program. The fees shall be deposited into the Dealers’ Record of Sale Special Account.

Does that say the registration fee will be due annually?
That's not the way I read it. I think it just allows them to adjust the price (for new registrations) in future years. Don't believe it can ever exceed $19, which is what it currently costs for a Firearms Ownership Record Search per firearm.
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  #165  
Old 02-22-2013, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
The law applies to any semi-automatic centerfire or rimfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine.

Sadly this means the Browning BAR hunting rifle and Benelli R-1. Both of these are beautiful modern hunting rifles that should never be considered "Assault Weapons". Heck they don't even make magazines bigger than 5 rounds for them!!!!!
I'm sorry your "beautiful" hunting rifles are being threatened now... Welcome to the club. You should be just as upset about SB47 and any other weapons ban because your precious hunting rifle is next.
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  #166  
Old 02-22-2013, 3:02 PM
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Curious what the next iteration of the bill will say, now that we've all chatted it up so much.

This bill, like all the others, needs to be stopped. I realize that when most of us can't even get our Reps to read our e-mails let alone listen to reason, it seems too formidable, but this is where we should be putting our time and effort... not helping them re-write.
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  #167  
Old 02-22-2013, 4:07 PM
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This is about confiscation. There are probably a million+ people who own AR's in this state. It is the number 1 selling rifle in America. It doesn't get much more common use than that. Yee, Lee, Steinburg, say goodbye to your careers.
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  #168  
Old 02-22-2013, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by glocksmith View Post
This is about confiscation. There are probably a million+ people who own AR's in this state. It is the number 1 selling rifle in America. It doesn't get much more common use than that. Yee, Lee, Steinburg, say goodbye to your careers.
I would be willing to bet Yee gets re-elected. He is extremely popular. Short of getting caught with a hooker (which he already almost did AND still got elected) he will win. His career is just beginning. We need to gear up and be ready for him and be ready to fight whatever non-sense he has to offer. I hope to be wrong.
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  #169  
Old 02-22-2013, 4:19 PM
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I would be willing to bet Yee gets re-elected. He is extremely popular. Short of getting caught with a hooker (which he already almost did AND still got elected) he will win. His career is just beginning. We need to gear up and be ready for him and be ready to fight whatever non-sense he has to offer. I hope to be wrong.
He's termed out of the Senate
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  #170  
Old 02-24-2013, 5:46 AM
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So what's the next phase of this bill? When is the next vote taking place?
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  #171  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:00 AM
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Originally Posted by a1fabweld View Post
So what's the next phase of this bill? When is the next vote taking place?
Right now they will take all the comments they have read on CalGuns and incorporate them into a more impressive bill. Thanks for the help CalGuns.
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  #172  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
Right now they will take all the comments they have read on CalGuns and incorporate them into a more impressive bill. Thanks for the help CalGuns.
Unfortunately, THIS...
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  #173  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
Right now they will take all the comments they have read on CalGuns and incorporate them into a more impressive bill. Thanks for the help CalGuns.
Yea I know, but it's illegal to make people STFU.
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  #174  
Old 02-24-2013, 9:07 AM
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Enh, there is not much to be Opsec about here. The other side's problem is this.

They can ban only bullet button rifles and we'll all go featureless and use normal magazines. Plus, the artificial distinctions between the now banned 10 round bullet button rifle and the unbanned MMG gripped AR with a 30 round magazine makes no sense.

As such, they've got to go to the next logical place and ban all semiauto rifles. Sounds like DC banning all handguns. Please put us in that briar patch.

-Gene
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  #175  
Old 02-24-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
Enh, there is not much to be Opsec about here. The other side's problem is this.

They can ban only bullet button rifles and we'll all go featureless and use normal magazines. Plus, the artificial distinctions between the now banned 10 round bullet button rifle and the unbanned MMG gripped AR with a 30 round magazine makes no sense.

As such, they've got to go to the next logical place and ban all semiauto rifles. Sounds like DC banning all handguns. Please put us in that briar patch.

-Gene
In that case I hope it is challenged and the Supreme Court overturns it. If they rule you can't ban Semi-auto rifles, then that effectively would make all AR-15 bans illegal
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  #176  
Old 02-24-2013, 11:51 AM
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Tagged.................
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  #177  
Old 02-24-2013, 12:27 PM
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It seems to me that it will be better if the SCOTUS rules strict scrutiny in the next case and most of these laws can be suspended in court as they are enacted.
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  #178  
Old 02-24-2013, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Apocalypsenerd View Post
It seems to me that it will be better if the SCOTUS rules strict scrutiny in the next case and most of these laws can be suspended in court as they are enacted.
Yes. As some point they will have to identify the level of scrutiny applicable to 2A rights. Hopefully soon.
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  #179  
Old 02-24-2013, 5:58 PM
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This bill is so broad there will be many felons created because some people will not know how many of their guns are "assault rifles". Some in rural areas will not realize their 1960s hunting rifle or old Ruger 10/22 requires registration.

It's also so broad that LEOs will likely make even more arrests for lawful weapons than they already do because the law is so poorly written.
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  #180  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
This bill is so broad there will be many felons created because some people will not know how many of their guns are "assault rifles". Some in rural areas will not realize their 1960s hunting rifle or old Ruger 10/22 requires registration.

It's also so broad that LEOs will likely make even more arrests for lawful weapons than they already do because the law is so poorly written.

Allow me to quote Atlas Shrugged
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"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now, that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with." ~Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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  #181  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypsenerd View Post
It seems to me that it will be better if the SCOTUS rules strict scrutiny in the next case and most of these laws can be suspended in court as they are enacted.
Genes analysis is accurate, not that I'm a legal scholar or an expert to judge.

The trouble is time. Before the SCOTUS even decides to hear their next 2A case, the antis in CA and elsewhere will have long since passed their illegal regulations. By the time the verdict for or against comes out, you guys will already be violators.
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  #182  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:36 PM
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As written the law provides for registration. Therefore without an injunction (and hopefully we get one) we would have to register and fight in the courts. HOPEFULLY if this does get thrown out we are then allowed to unregister.
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  #183  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
As written the law provides for registration. Therefore without an injunction (and hopefully we get one) we would have to register and fight in the courts. HOPEFULLY if this does get thrown out we are then allowed to unregister.
Unregister...LOL. Yeah right.
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  #184  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pdugan6 View Post
my contempt for these people grows every day>>>>>
They are BEYOND contempt. It is time for massive and conscious
disobediance of these anti-American Constitution, unworthy California politicians
and legislators.
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  #185  
Old 02-24-2013, 6:52 PM
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Unregister...LOL. Yeah right.
Again, while we fight the courts, registering only encourages this
kind of serious criminal behaviour on the part of thes "legislator"
criminals. And they ARE indeed criminals.
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  #186  
Old 02-24-2013, 7:25 PM
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From the way I read the bill this is a blanket ban and is the rifle equivalent of Heller. They say its an "assault weapons" ban but there's no logic, how can a Ruger 10/22 be Assaultier than an SKS (which will remain legal). As I recall they've got a hard on for SKS rifles
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  #187  
Old 02-24-2013, 8:16 PM
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An SKS will not remain legal, you can remove the magazine easily with a tool and will then take detachable ones.
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  #188  
Old 02-24-2013, 9:56 PM
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But what is the fear of a detachable magazine lever or bolt gun?
Capacity and reload speed.
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  #189  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:11 PM
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I need people to think about this statement and not just have a knee jerk reaction.

We need the absolute most new registrations we can possibly get in any way we can get them during a registration window.

Pause and think about why.

-Gene
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  #190  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I need people to think about this statement and not just have a knee jerk reaction.

We need the absolute most new registrations we can possibly get in any way we can get them during a registration window.

Pause and think about why.

-Gene
Thinking of my previous post in this thread...

1. Almost guaranteed Preliminary Injunctions against these new bills.

2. Increased chance of being granted Cert for some of our ongoing court cases.

3. The more overreaching (and draconian) the bill (law) is, the more likely it is to be (eventually) struck down.

4. The more (registered) guns that are out there and counted in statistics and censuses, the more likely that "In Common Use" can be used as the catalyst to striking down aforementioned laws in court.



In the ballpark? I'm only 21 and bright green when it comes to legalese, but that's what I took out of it.

Lose the battle, but (ultimately) win the war... Clever.
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  #191  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffmang View Post
I need people to think about this statement and not just have a knee jerk reaction.
We need the absolute most new registrations we can possibly get in any way we can get them during a registration window.
Pause and think about why.
-Gene
Every visceral reaction says registration is always bad. Not sure I can get over that feeling.
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  #192  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:21 PM
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Is this a plan B idea ?
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  #193  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:26 PM
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Is that where I register and turn in all my guns that I lost in the boating accident?
Dont you mean the guns you turned in at a gun buyback?
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  #194  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:28 PM
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Is this a plan B idea ?
Nope. Plan A. Let the corrupt politicians pass all the unconstitutional laws they want, and hope the courts rule in our favor.


Welcome to California.
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  #195  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:30 PM
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Yes as much as people may not want to register. If they opened up registrations and there was a very large number of registrations they lose. Common use is a great thing. If they try to ban without opening registrations then they have an all new briar patch. Talk about a rock and a hard place!
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  #196  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:33 PM
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All I can add to this is the thought that when in session, the doors to the capitol nned to be closed and chained from the outside....... I cant 'express my 1st A anymore than that." Think of some movies, books and elsewhere for 'inspiration".

As for Homang's suggestion, i think i get it BUT there is a definite risk involved.... may have to bullet proof the windows,walls and solid steel core the doors on the house.......
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  #197  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:33 PM
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I prefer civil disobedience. Just blow it all off as unconstitutional. Seriously, what will they do put 10's of millions into prison camps?
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  #198  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lilro View Post
Nope. Plan A. Let the corrupt politicians pass all the unconstitutional laws they want, and hope the courts rule in our favor.


Welcome to California.
Sounds like the usual long road through the courts with slow responses, what happened to the full frontal stop it before it starts. I'm starting to get some real mixed signals with tactics on how this legislation will be fought NOT GOOD
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  #199  
Old 02-25-2013, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Yes as much as people may not want to register. If they opened up registrations and there was a very large number of registrations they lose. Common use is a great thing. If they try to ban without opening registrations then they have an all new briar patch. Talk about a rock and a hard place!
Basically, it seems like they've won, but in reality they just screwed themselves over all the way into next Sunday (at least)

They can't weasel their way outta this one at the rate they're going.
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Old 02-25-2013, 4:41 PM
lilro lilro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinestr View Post
Sounds like the usual long road through the courts with slow responses, what happened to the full frontal stop it before it starts. I'm starting to get some real mixed signals with tactics on how this legislation will be fought NOT GOOD
Remember how great it was when we celebrated the OC ban because it was going to open up concealed carry across CA?
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